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Old 03-19-2013, 06:48 AM   #181
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So intrigued by this conversation about potato hacking....never heard of it, but want to hear more!!
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:39 AM   #182
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Bev! I am so excited and happy for you! I think the 1.2 will disappear if you have the same results that I have seen other long fasters have. I have yet to make it that long, but I am going to try in a couple of weeks. Did you feel a difference as the days went by? I really do want to have one of these per month to help give me the push on over.

One more thing, I have been reading on Ray Cronise site and there is one guy in particular who said he fought the mid day sleepiness. Isn't that what happened to Sven??? Ray Cronise advised him to skip the lunch time tater and drink water until dinner. It solved the problem. Did you feel a slow down on energy by the end of the 10 days? I only thought about adding the bb to keep the energy consistent.

You nailed it Bev!
Thank you for your constant support Sunday. The first day I felt some hunger, but it was slight. I felt lots of energy, was in a good mood, and no cravings. I did not feel any mid day sleepiness. I needed a potato by noon because I was hungry by then--I couldn't have skipped it. At day ten my body was just telling me this is enough- you need to get in more nutrients now. I am really trying to listen to my body. My goal was 7 days and then to take it one day at a time after that. I think it is a good thing to jump start weight loss.

PJ, I don't understand the use of the cornstarch. I thought we wanted a big insulin spike with the potatoes. Don't we want an insulin spike without eating any fats so the body draws from the fat on the body? I am not understanding the purpose of doing that.

I think this is a good hack. I need to be careful not to abuse it like I did the HCG. With the plan I am following, PHD, the goal is to not be malnourished and to get the necessary nutrients through certain foods. So I need to keep that in the front of my mind since I still have lots of healing to do!

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:26 AM   #183
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Jenny - I have read that diabetics following Mcdougall's diet return to normal blood sugar readings in a few weeks (his diet is starch/veg/fruit--low fat vegan). I'm guessing that the potato hack might have a similar mechanism (McDougall seems to have invented it), but I don't know. It seems like it could just be the weight loss that does it.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:47 AM   #184
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PJ, How do you take the cornstarch? Mixed in water? Or do you sprinkle it on the meal?
Mixed in cold water.

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Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
PJ, I don't understand the use of the cornstarch. I thought we wanted a big insulin spike with the potatoes. Don't we want an insulin spike without eating any fats so the body draws from the fat on the body? I am not understanding the purpose of doing that.
(Just to clarify--cornstarch doesn't have any fat.)

According to the charts in the study, there is still an insulin spike...it isn't as high, so maybe PH+CS would result in slower weight loss. However, since some people (myself included) felt so horrible that they don't want to do the PH at all, this might be a way to ease into it.

OTOH, I can't tell from the charts whether the overall release of insulin is less. I don't know if it's logical to assume that, if you need a certain amount of insulin to process XXXg of carb, the CS is going to make you need less insulin. It might just slow down the release of glucose into the bloodstream.

(Questionable method: I just added up the amounts of insulin on the per-hour chart. The glucose-only came out to about 2900 and the glucose + CS came out to about 3000. So...that might be a totally wrong way to look at it, but if it's not, it would mean that the same amount of insulin is released, just more steadily rather than in one huge spike.)

The promising thing about the CS is that the blood sugar crash (nadir) is less dramatic. So that might make the PH more tolerable for people who have hypoglycemic reactions.

Also, raw CS is high is resistant starch, which is present in potatoes and might help with appetite suppression.

On one of the MDA threads, otzi talked about "unmodified potato starch" being a source of resistant starch. So that might be an alternative for people who are avoiding corn/grains. I'm ordering some from Bob's Red Mill; it can be used as a flour substitute if it doesn't work out for me as a supplement.

I have a lot of potatoes on hand for DS, so I'm going to try to hack+CS today and I'll let y'all know how it goes.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:28 AM   #185
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Thanks for the explanation PJ. I am intrigued with how this works for you and enjoy learning about RS. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:31 AM   #186
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I do realize starch doesn't contain fat. Wouldn't just eating all your potatoes cold with all their resistant starch do the same thing? When you did it before, did you eat cold potatoes? How is unmodified potato starch different than eating a cold potato with the resistant starch in them?
Would eating just a touch of fat with the potatoes do the same thing by slowing it down a bit?
Forgive my questions if they are dumb-- I am just trying to understand the mechanics of this whole thing.
Will look forward to seeing your results. Experimenting is really fun.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:49 AM   #187
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Wouldn't just eating all your potatoes cold with all their resistant starch do the same thing?
RS is just a small percentage of the total starch in a cold potato.

When you did it before, did you eat cold potatoes?
Yes.

How is unmodified potato starch different than eating a cold potato with the resistant starch in them?

It's concentrated RS. It's like the difference in taking a spoonful of fish oil vs eating a small piece of fish.

Would eating just a touch of fat with the potatoes do the same thing by slowing it down a bit?

I doubt it. Plus I don't know if it would prevent the crash, or I'd be able to eat a bagel with cream cheese without falling asleep!
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:54 AM   #188
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just a note--for many people, the "crash" experience doesn't seem to persist. It happens maybe one or two times and seems then to resolve.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:25 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Wouldn't just eating all your potatoes cold with all their resistant starch do the same thing?
RS is just a small percentage of the total starch in a cold potato.

When you did it before, did you eat cold potatoes?
Yes.

How is unmodified potato starch different than eating a cold potato with the resistant starch in them?

It's concentrated RS. It's like the difference in taking a spoonful of fish oil vs eating a small piece of fish.

Would eating just a touch of fat with the potatoes do the same thing by slowing it down a bit?

I doubt it. Plus I don't know if it would prevent the crash, or I'd be able to eat a bagel with cream cheese without falling asleep!
Thanks for explaining to me. Much appreciated.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:04 AM   #190
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just a note--for many people, the "crash" experience doesn't seem to persist. It happens maybe one or two times and seems then to resolve.
But enough people (myself included) have gotten so turned off by the experience that they don't persist. I can't help but suspect that some who are able to push through aren't experiencing crashes quite as unpleasant as others are. So wouldn't it be nice to have an alternative that doesn't leave one feeling like utter crap, frightened, and barely able to operate a button or zipper?
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #191
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All right, good news so far!

I had 2 potatoes + 2tbsp cornstarch around 1pm.
Got hungry again pretty quickly and had 1 potato + 1tbsp CS around 3pm.
It's 7pm now--I've been painfully hungry for hours,
but otherwise I feel fine and my hands aren't shaking!
(I didn't eat another potato when I got hungry
because I wanted to have 4 hours between my last potato and something different for dinner.)

I just took my blood sugar and it's 81.
I have someimes felt really crappy around 80, so that's good.

I weighed just a little while ago and was down a good 2-1/2 or 3lbs from where I usually am this time of day.
(Probably doesn't mean much, but it was fun to see. )

I've been in the habit for a long time of having a big protein breakfast, because it helps me sleep. If the hack doesn't cause insomnia, I'll continue for a while. I'd be really happy with a hacking-during-the-day-and-having-a-normal-dinner schedule. (DS is already fed up with only-potatoes-after-school, so he might try the new schedule too, or the Shangri-La Diet or something different. So then we could have dinner together.)

I'm eating a chickpea korma curry w/basmati rice right now, and man! after potatoes all day, it tastes extra amazing!!!

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Old 03-19-2013, 05:07 PM   #192
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I was wondering can we stillhave caffeine on the hack?
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:18 PM   #193
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I was wondering can we stillhave caffeine on the hack?
I did with no problem.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:56 PM   #194
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ok so I'm giving it a whirl tomorrow lol
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:37 PM   #195
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All right, good news so far!

I had 2 potatoes + 2tbsp cornstarch around 1pm.
Got hungry again pretty quickly and had 1 potato + 1tbsp CS around 3pm.
It's 7pm now--I've been painfully hungry for hours,
but otherwise I feel fine and my hands aren't shaking!
(I didn't eat another potato when I got hungry
because I wanted to have 4 hours between my last potato and something different for dinner.)

I just took my blood sugar and it's 81.
I have someimes felt really crappy around 80, so that's good.

I weighed just a little while ago and was down a good 2-1/2 or 3lbs from where I usually am this time of day.
(Probably doesn't mean much, but it was fun to see. )

I've been in the habit for a long time of having a big protein breakfast, because it helps me sleep. If the hack doesn't cause insomnia, I'll continue for a while. I'd be really happy with a hacking-during-the-day-and-having-a-normal-dinner schedule. (DS is already fed up with only-potatoes-after-school, so he might try the new schedule too, or the Shangri-La Diet or something different. So then we could have dinner together.)

I'm eating a chickpea korma curry w/basmati rice right now, and man! after potatoes all day, it tastes extra amazing!!!
Jenny - good news!!! Wow, 81 that is a great reading!

The weight loss seems magical on the potato hack. I can't believe mine is sticking. I hope yours does!

I am sorry you experienced hunger. Oh my gosh, what can you do? I hope it gets better.

My first week I had a teaspoon of butter with a potato, and it was those smaller yukon gold potatoes. Maybe that would help along with the corn startch?

Save some sauce for your potatoes too! I have been eating mine with Classico tomoato basil sauce. It sure dresses up a cold potato!
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #196
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I was wondering can we stillhave caffeine on the hack?
Oh, I have my caffeine daily!

I gave up Splenda at the same time and notice I don't drink as much coffee. Obviously Splenda addiction. Stevia is great in tea, but coffee - eh, not as good.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:34 PM   #197
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I was wondering can we stillhave caffeine on the hack?
My experience is that caffeine makes me HUNGRY...it makes my blood sugar go all over the place!
Not everybody has this reaction but if you are very hungry on the hack, you could try cutting out caffeine for a day or two.

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Jenny - good news!!! Wow, 81 that is a great reading!

The weight loss seems magical on the potato hack. I can't believe mine is sticking. I hope yours does!

I am sorry you experienced hunger. Oh my gosh, what can you do? I hope it gets better.

My first week I had a teaspoon of butter with a potato, and it was those smaller yukon gold potatoes. Maybe that would help along with the corn startch?

Save some sauce for your potatoes too! I have been eating mine with Classico tomoato basil sauce. It sure dresses up a cold potato!
Today I was thinking that a couple pinches of Parmesan or Asiago cheese would give a potato a lot of flavor with very little fat...


I really don't mind hunger as long as I don't feel hypoglycemic,
and if I can look forward to a meal or snack before bed.
I just hate feeling shaky (my hands don't work, my legs feel weak and unreliable), and if I'm really hungry, it's more difficult to fall asleep.

I'm honestly very excited that this could be a big breakthrough for people who want to try the hack but have had unpleasant reactions.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:20 PM   #198
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My experience is that caffeine makes me HUNGRY...it makes my blood sugar go all over the place!
Not everybody has this reaction but if you are very hungry on the hack, you could try cutting out caffeine for a day or two.


Today I was thinking that a couple pinches of Parmesan or Asiago cheese would give a potato a lot of flavor with very little fat...


I really don't mind hunger as long as I don't feel hypoglycemic,
and if I can look forward to a meal or snack before bed.
I just hate feeling shaky (my hands don't work, my legs feel weak and unreliable), and if I'm really hungry, it's more difficult to fall asleep.

I'm honestly very excited that this could be a big breakthrough for people who want to try the hack but have had unpleasant reactions.
Ah! This is what makes the potato hack so surprising to me. I once ate a big pile of noodles and ended up with slurred speech! I have been frightened by my blood sugar readings after eating rice.

I have lost a lot of weight since those days and perhaps this is part of why things are OK now, but I have always assumed that eating carbs would put me right back there, but potatoes do not.

Curious.

Oh, some parmesean cheese does sound so good! I decided to break my dairy habit to see what would result, but otherwise I would do it!
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:21 AM   #199
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my favorite is a tablespoon or two of salsa con queso mxed with a little bone broth on the taters. swoon.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #200
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Okay, so yesterday I did a partial hack PLUS CORNSTARCH until 7pm and then ate rice & chickpea curry (a LOT!!! ).
This morning my fasting blood glucose was 86.
Last time I tried the hack, my FBG was 177.

So...cornstarch is looking like a winner!!!

Quote:
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2/28
Holy schmoly!!! Bad blood sugar readings!!!

All right, I know there's probably an "adjustment period" or something, but...

9:15pm (no food since 5pm): 89
9:45: approx 6oz potatoes + 1 cup homemade beef broth
10:30: 173
11:50: 123
(went to sleep around 12:30, had nightmares, woke up 6am)
6:30: 131 <--I've been having much lower FBGs lately
7:30 (no food yet, just water): 177
(I haven't seen a morning number that high in the 2 years I've been testing!!!)

For comparison, a couple days ago I woke up w/102 and and an hour later (no food, just water) it only went up to 117.

I was prepared for a spike after eating the potatoes, but surprised that my blood sugar was CRAZY 10 hours later.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:35 PM   #201
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Wow! I am impressed. I would have thought it would take a while for the RS to assist with the BG results. Sounds like the cornstarch may be a great addition for tater fasters.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:02 PM   #202
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Jenny - wow, good news!!!

I am so happy to hear this!!!
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #203
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How are you doing Jenny?

Another three pound loss showed up for me this week. That makes 20 pounds since 1/18.

I have added a spinach-blueberry smoothie (vitamix) with stevia (added at the end - that stuff foams), and it hasn't interfered with anything. Taking weekends off (when I fit in meat and eggs) and choosing sushi, teriyaki, or indian food where rice can be the main dish when eating out seems to keep things not too far off track.

Woot!

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Old 03-23-2013, 11:48 AM   #204
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How are you doing Jenny?

Another three pound loss showed up for me this week. That makes 20 pounds since 1/18.

I have added a spinach-blueberry smoothie (vitamix) with stevia (added at the end - that stuff foams), and it hasn't interfered with anything. Taking weekends off (when I fit in meat and eggs) and choosing sushi, teriyaki, or indian food where rice can be the main dish when eating out seems to keep things not too far off track.

Woot!
Great news KT! I would say 20 lbs in 2 months is awesome!
I am really looking forward to my next hack. I may just fast my way to goal, since it seems to be slowly moving by all other means.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:34 PM   #205
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How are you doing Jenny?
I only did the PH for 2 partial days but it looks like I'm down at least 2, maybe 3lbs this week.

I've just been in the mood to do some cooking and have a couple salads
but I will try to hack for part of the day 2-3 days a week.

I've been taking 1 or 2 tbsp of cornstarch right before bed.
My FBG the last few days, including today--86, 106, and 86.

I've also been taking 2 tbsp of chia seeds every morning (Shangri-La stuff)...that might be part of what's helping with the weight loss and blood sugar. Not sure.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:59 PM   #206
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my favorite is a tablespoon or two of salsa con queso mxed with a little bone broth on the taters. swoon.
Been hacking on my JUDDD down days but looking at doing a long term hack. The results posted here & on the JUDDD boards are so helpful - I love reading through all your experiences.

So...I get the mechanism, mobilizing peripheral fat instead of dietary fat to manage the carb load - I am not diabetic and I've not had problems with only potatoes in the past.

However I'm still obsessing over how much added fat is too much & will defeat the purpose. I looked up the salsa con queso & 1 TBS contains 1.5g of fat. 1 wedge of the 35 cal Laughing Cow cheese has 1.5g of fat so, in theory, I could use one of those on a potato with no troubles?

What I really want is a number - you may have # grams of fat per potato/day and this will still work. I realize this may be an unrealistic expectation. However any advice would be much appreciated.

I've mostly been getting by on microwaved "baked" taters with broth, salt & A-1. Don't like vinegar - bummer. Tried it, gave me horrible heart burn which I have never had before. Just looking for ways to mix it up a bit without shooting myself in the foot.

Hack on ladies!!!
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:17 PM   #207
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What I really want is a number - you may have # grams of fat per potato/day and this will still work.
great question & i would like 2 know the answer too!

here's the original guideline from the "moar taters" thread--
Quote:
1 tsp max daily coconut oil, olive oil, or butter
BUT i think i've seen some people say they can get away with using 1/2tp-1tsp fat per "medium potato"?
(whatever that is )
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:03 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
great question & i would like 2 know the answer too!

here's the original guideline from the "moar taters" thread--

BUT i think i've seen some people say they can get away with using 1/2tp-1tsp fat per "medium potato"?
(whatever that is )
1 tsp CO = ~5g fat
1 tsp EVOO = ~4.5g fat
1 tsp butter = 3-7g fat depending on brand, etc.

Guess we answered our question!! Bring on the LC wedges!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:07 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
I only did the PH for 2 partial days but it looks like I'm down at least 2, maybe 3lbs this week.

I've just been in the mood to do some cooking and have a couple salads
but I will try to hack for part of the day 2-3 days a week.

I've been taking 1 or 2 tbsp of cornstarch right before bed.
My FBG the last few days, including today--86, 106, and 86.

I've also been taking 2 tbsp of chia seeds every morning (Shangri-La stuff)...that might be part of what's helping with the weight loss and blood sugar. Not sure.
Woot!!! Jenny, that is such great news on the weight loss AND the blood sugar! Yay!!!

I do use chia seeds 3-4 days per week in the afternoons when I can't stop to put a potato in the microwave at work during busy times. I'll use a heaping tablespoon in water with stevia to hold me over. I bought two bags of them for inflammation. I don't think they hurt anything.

I think anything that works at a condiment level on a potato is fair game!

Hack on!!!
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:10 AM   #210
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Jen & Yennie, I have spritzed my roasted taters with OO in my mister and sprinkled with rosemary & sea salt before roasting. I am guessing, but I would think it is close to 2 tsp. I also pour BB on my mashed taters and have not had any issues, just good results. Oh, and a new fav tater recipe is that I sautee onion, mushrooms, & leaks in Braggs Liquid Aminos and toss that on top of a baked tater,then splash some broth.

One last , I love, love, love the tast of Bubbies juice and pour that on my taters. I drink the bubbies dill relish and saurkraut juice straight from the jar. I know Tatertot has recommended a tbsp of butter before. That seems like a lot!
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