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Old 01-09-2011, 05:13 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Looweewoo View Post
I'm also using a hybrid sort of paleo/something diet.
This made me laugh! Yeah, um... me too!

I'm a lost soul. I've been back and forth between LCF and the Caveman Forum. I feel like I fit in neither and both. Those Caveman forum folks are HARDCORE and can be a bit intimidating to those of us who are "hybrids."

LCF folks are very supportive and accommodating to varied ways of eating. But people are using so many products and substitutes, etc. it's hard to sort through what's relevant to me.

I do best without dairy, but sometimes use half & half in my coffee and I'm not against an occasional piece of cheese and use butter.

Otherwise mainly meat, eggs, veggies, fruit, nuts, berries, olive oil.

The reason I've been so wishy washy is because I do endurance sports that can last upwards of 6 hours. I've experimented with various levels of carbs and ways of eating and still haven't figured out what's best to keep me fueled and healthy.

But I do know that my weight is much more controled the closer I stay to Paleo. I tend to blow up the moment I add in anything carby. I have about 10 lbs from the holidays (and even before). But my biggest issue seems to be portion control. I eat like a horse.
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:31 AM   #62
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Maria, welcome. It's nice to read of you doing so well. Thanks very much for posting about your success. I didn't see your post earlier.

-----


In case this should be of interest:

Dr. Emily Dean's latest post at her blog, "Evolutionary Psychiatry", is about Alzheimer's, Mild Cognitive Impairment, and Ketosis. It refers to studies showing cognitive improvement on ketogenic diets. She has much useful to say, as always. She also discusses the benefits of coconut oil and medium chain fatty acids.

----

Notes on my WOE: am really enjoying beef broth this winter, and using pastured butter or beef fat in my tea. I find with these in my tea, that I like the tea weaker, and more animal fats. Sometimes drink hot water with hwc in it, late in the day, and find that nice, too.

Roast beef soup for breakfast is delightful when it is very cold.

Hope you all are having a nice morning.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:45 AM   #63
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You guys may not have seen my frequent posts on the Circumpolar Tribes including the Saami and Samoyed, both of whom from which I am descended. At one point I was working on a definition of my diet with a title of "Traditional Reindeer herding diet".

So... these posts and links are so very cool to me, Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:53 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
I've read of folks using pemmican as a soup base, so you could use bits of the salty pemmican as a soup starter, if that appeals to you.
That's exactly what I plan to do with it. One of the old "deer camp" recipes I used to know (I live rurally and have never been in a "deer camp" but I am aware of the recipes) is a jerky soup. I haven't had venison soup of any type (stew yes, not soup) since high school so I think I'll do that.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:26 AM   #65
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Antlers, I'm sure your soup will be grand. You have such nice thing going into it.

Someone posted this study report on antioxidants in fruits and vegtables in the comments after the post on "Anacetrapib and phytotoxins" at Hyperlipid.

The title of the report is:

"No effect of 600 grams fruit and vegetables per day on oxidative DNA damage and repair in healthy nonsmokers".

Here is the abstract:

In several epidemiological studies, high intakes of fruits and vegetables have been associated with a lower incidence of cancer. Theoretically, intake of antioxidants by consumption of fruits and vegetables should protect against reactive oxygen species and decrease the formation of oxidative DNA damage. We set up a parallel 24-day dietary placebo-controlled intervention study in which 43 subjects were randomized into three groups receiving an antioxidant-free basal diet and 600 g of fruits and vegetables, or a supplement containing the corresponding amounts of vitamins and minerals, or placebo.

Blood and urine samples were collected before, once a week, and 4 weeks after the intervention period. The level of strand breaks, endonuclease III sites, formamidopyrimidine sites, and sensitivity to hydrogen peroxide was assessed in mononuclear blood cells by the comet assay. Excretion of 7-hydro-8-oxo-2'-deoxyguanine was measured in urine. The expressions of oxoguanine glycosylase 1 and excision repair cross complementing 1 DNA repair genes, determined by real-time reverse transcription-PCR of mRNAs, were investigated in leukocytes. Consumption of fruits and vegetables or vitamins and minerals had no effect on oxidative DNA damage measured in mononuclear cell DNA or urine. Hydrogen peroxide sensitivity, detected by the comet assay, did not differ between the groups. Expression of excision repair cross complementing 1 and oxoguanine glycosylase 1 in leukocytes was not related to the diet consumed.

Our results show that after 24 days of complete depletion of fruits and vegetables, or daily ingestion of 600 g of fruit and vegetables, or the corresponding amount of vitamins and minerals, the level of oxidative DNA damage was unchanged. This suggests that the inherent antioxidant defense mechanisms are sufficient to protect circulating mononuclear blood cells from reactive oxygen species.


I do not have access to the full text.

It would seem that the antioxidants in fruits and vegetables are irrelevant.

Or do you all see a different result?

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Old 01-09-2011, 11:04 AM   #66
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I'm not sure if antioxidants are entirely irrelevant or not, I just know that every time I hear the word "antioxidants" I get a flashback of the scene from Idiocracy where they're trying to explain "electrolytes." From the scraps I absorb as I fly around the Internet I'm under the impression that it's more important to prevent the damage from happening (by eating good food, which is what our WOE is about) than to repair what's already been screwed up by eating a bunch of fruit and vegetables. That doesn't mean I'm convinced fruits and vegetables themselves are irrelevant (although we certainly don't "need" them), but the way they're peddled is more like stretching out a big safety net over a hole you didn't need to dig to begin with.

So yea... that's what I have to say about that.

In other conversation, I'm trying to find more fat sources because my fat/protein ratio is being murdalized by all the lean venison I eat. I eat a lot of butter, coconut oil, etc. but it's not enough when I'm not eating that many veggies, so I am looking to find some fattier meats to add.

Also, eating this way has started moving my teeth around... it's weird, when I first gave up vegetarianism every time I ate meat I would get what felt like a teaspoon of meat stuck between my teeth (not really a teaspoon of course) and I've noticed that there is not enough space for this anymore. Two bottom front teeth are starting to overlap a little more. Yikes. Not a terrible thing, though, all my top teeth fit and getting stuff so obviously stuck has made my dental hygiene habits several times better than before. Bottom teeth... little worried about.

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Old 01-09-2011, 11:10 AM   #67
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Ya... my take has always been that once we prevent one of the most potent oxidizers (insulin) from cyclically flooding our system, anti-oxidants have a much lower level of importance anyway.
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:05 PM   #68
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Antlers and Looweewoo thanks very much for your posts. I appreciate you taking time to write them.

Antlers, regarding teeth moving: I have noticed that my teeth shift a bit according to what is going on with me. They have been more stable eating VLC Paleo+butter/cream. I have a few teeth that move closer together during times of stress. Lack of sleep, too much tea, mental/physical/emotional fatigue, not drinking enough water, lack of salt, are things I've noticed which effect the way my teeth feel, can make them feel too tight, etc.

A couple of dentists told me, many years ago, that the lower front teeth often move closer together and can overlap, as one gets older. I noticed this happening with mine when I was in my early thirties. After I went low carb, and then Paleo, they moved apart again and have stayed stable.

Stress changes hearing and eyesight, measurably so, why not teeth, too.

Have you read the works of the Drs. Edward and May Mellanby? I found those interesting, regarding teeth. Here is a chapter from Diet and Nutrition.

Here is a short bio of him. and here is one his papers on diet and teeth.

Their findings on diet and rickets made a strong impression on me.

Reading their work, Dr. Weston A. Prices's book, and Stephan Guyenet's posts at Whole Health Source about diet for bones and teeth, I think it is possible that bones and cartilege could be improved, eating the way we eat.

My bones rarely hurt anymore. My range of motion continues to increase. Even though I had been gluten-free for a couple of years, changing to this WOE changed my health dramatically for the better.

If anyone wishes to read Dr. Weston A. Price's, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, here is the book online.

Best wishes to all.
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:23 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
I have noticed that my teeth shift a bit according to what is going on with me. They have been more stable eating VLC Paleo+butter/cream. I have a few teeth that move closer together during times of stress. Lack of sleep, too much tea, mental/physical/emotional fatigue, not drinking enough water, lack of salt, are things I've noticed which effect the way my teeth feel, can make them feel too tight, etc.

A couple of dentists told me, many years ago, that the lower front teeth often move closer together and can overlap, as one gets older. I noticed this happening with mine when I was in my early thirties. After I went low carb, and then Paleo, they moved apart again and have stayed stable.
I wasn't aware that most peoples' teeth overlap more when they get older, although it makes sense. My bottom teeth have always overlapped, they just overlap more. Or at least I think they are. So that's not the part that's weird to me, it's that other teeth are closer together so less food gets stuck between them... if that makes sense. I can still floss easily and everything, so I generally consider that an improvement as it doesn't hurt to eat meat as much.

If yours moved apart, though, there's always a chance maybe mine are too and I'm just not noticing because the front has always been overlapped. I just know for certain that the molars are closer together.

Now, if my top left wisdom tooth straightens out, I'll consider that a miracle.
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:52 PM   #70
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Antlers, I'll be sending you perfect teeth thoughts.

I think holding tension in the scalp, jaw, temples, neck, shoulders, etc., has a lot to do with my getting tight teeth.

I don't remember the dentists saying that it was most people's teeth, but that it often happens.

I've been reading more of your blog. You are very talented. I find your writing refreshing, clear, and very enjoyable.



---

I've been thinking about what Speck said about this being a pastoral diet, and Dr. Harris said that in the interview on Jimmy Moore's show. (I'm not sure if that is the interviewer's name.) That being the case, I changed the name of my food plan in my profile, as this WOE seems very natural for me. I always felt a bit odd about the Paleo part of the name in Lacto-Paleo, as though I ought to say something else. The word "Pastoral" sits better with me.


Best wishes to all.

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Old 01-09-2011, 05:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
I've been thinking about what Speck said about this being a pastoral diet, and Dr. Harris said that in the interview on Jimmy Moore's show. (I'm not sure if that is the interviewer's name.) That being the case, I changed the name of my food plan in my profile, as this WOE seems very natural for me. I always felt a bit odd about the Paleo part of the name in Lacto-Paleo, as though I ought to say something else. The word "Pastoral" sits better with me.
Lol, I like it! I tried calling my diet "horticultural" for a while but only nerds got it, so I stopped. That's where paleo is useful to me... even if people think it's a total crock, most people here know what it means.
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:12 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post

I've been thinking about what Speck said about this being a pastoral diet, and Dr. Harris said that in the interview on Jimmy Moore's show. (I'm not sure if that is the interviewer's name.) That being the case, I changed the name of my food plan in my profile, as this WOE seems very natural for me. I always felt a bit odd about the Paleo part of the name in Lacto-Paleo, as though I ought to say something else. The word "Pastoral" sits better with me.


Best wishes to all.
Hey that's cool! Thanks for the nod.

By the way, the discussion on teeth brought to mind the lack of dental carries (cavities) *and* crowding seen in non-agriculturalists. You all probably know about the lack of cavities already, so I'll only explain the lack of crowding. The teeth are much less plastic than bones, and while we have smaller jaws today than in previous times when people were eating tougher foods and having to chew them more, our teeth are the same size. This is why so many of us have crowded teeth, and some of us were lucky enough to have been tortured with orthodontic braces to correct it. I would imagine that the orthodontic lobby wouldn't be in favor of people eating a more traditional diet
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:40 PM   #73
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Speck, thank you very much. I could ask you a few questions every hour.

Thanks so much for posting here. I really appreciate it.

I've been reading a bit on a few anthropology blogs. I chuckled a little wryly at how the "discussions" about various things reminded me of the thread "discussions" over the best way to eat low carb. Good ol' human nature everywhere.

I read some nice things on the Scottish highlanders, but have yet to find out what the old, traditional diet was. Google searches on Scottish Highlands, and similar bring up tourist "stuff".

Antlers, would you post a link here to your blog post of your reindeer gifts? I don't want to give it away, as they are very dear, and everyone would really enjoy seeing that post, I'm sure. I didn't want to post it, without asking you.

Hope you all are staying warm and doing well.

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Old 01-09-2011, 06:49 PM   #74
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Lol sure:
My Primal Gifts: Dehydrated Deer

I don't mind links, they're just free publicity.

When I gave them to my family most of them were amused with a few thinking it was "morbid but fascinating." Apparently I spiced the mixes differently because the general consensus was that the deer tasted better than the sticks. Or maybe it was just because fun shaped things feel like they taste better :P
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:50 PM   #75
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Antlers, thanks. I think they are delightful.

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Old 01-10-2011, 07:25 AM   #76
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Hi all, just checking in real quick. Looks like I'm missing an interesting discussion. I'll have to check out all of the blogs when I'm not at work. The firewall here filters all of the blogspot type spots.

Good news is that the bison lady was there Sat and I now have burger and stewmeat waiting for inspiration.

Down 7 lbs and 1.5 inches in my waist for the week. That should be all of the bloat, now it's time to settle down to losing fat. Have a beautiful rib eye waiting for me to get home from work. Yumm.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:05 AM   #77
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:12 AM   #78
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Speck, thank you very much. I could ask you a few questions every hour.

Thanks so much for posting here. I really appreciate it.

I've been reading a bit on a few anthropology blogs. I chuckled a little wryly at how the "discussions" about various things reminded me of the thread "discussions" over the best way to eat low carb. Good ol' human nature everywhere.

I read some nice things on the Scottish highlanders, but have yet to find out what the old, traditional diet was. Google searches on Scottish Highlands, and similar bring up tourist "stuff".

Antlers, would you post a link here to your blog post of your reindeer gifts? I don't want to give it away, as they are very dear, and everyone would really enjoy seeing that post, I'm sure. I didn't want to post it, without asking you.

Hope you all are staying warm and doing well.
Auntie Em, anthropologists are a contentious lot, that's for sure! I don't know much about the Scottish Highlands prehistory. You might want to search terms like "Scottish Highlands prehistory" or "archaeology Scottish Highlands" or "Picts". The Picts were the original inhabitants of the area. That might get you closer to what you want to know. In general though, the Picts probably arrived in the area about 9,000 years ago and at the time they were hunter-gatherers. They would have subsisted mostly on local large and small game, whatever lived there at the time, as well as plant foods. I can only speculate on the specifics... various greens, berries, venison, fish, rabbit??? Probably 4,000 years ago farming started to develop, it was either brought in from the south or spontaneously developed there. They would have grown oats and barley probably. It would take a while for the transition to take place. The information you seek is out there, it just might take you a while to find it

Antlers, I loved the deer-jerky-cookies!
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:33 AM   #79
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Tamara, congratulations on getting sleeker. I'm so glad you got the bison meat. That'll be nice. When you have time to catch up on reading, I'm looking forward to your comments.

Keytones, welcome.

Speck, thanks for your post. I was hoping to find a group other than the Picts. Thank you, too, for the search words. If I find any good food information, I will post it.

I knew you all would enjoy Antler's post about reindeer cookies.

Best wishes to all.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:41 PM   #80
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In case this could be of use to someone, here is some information from Don Matesz' blog, "Primal Wisdom".

Here is his Primal Diet in a Nutshell:

Eat

Necessary
1. Meat, poultry, fish, eggs, and any natural animal fat or fat closely resembling animal fat (e.g. coconut, palm)
Optional
2. Dairy products if tolerated
3. Vegetables, herbs, and spices, including leaves, stems, bulbs, roots
4. Fruits and berries (includes avocados and olives)
5. Nuts such as almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans, coconut, etc.


Avoid
1. Cereal grains and grain products (bread, pasta, pastries, etc.)
2. Legumes (beans and peas, including soy and peanuts)
3. Grain-like seeds (quinoa, amaranth, teff, etc.)
4. Seed oils and oil seeds (corn, safflower, sunflower, flax, sesame, hemp, etc.)
5. Sugars, including cane sugar (white, brown, organic, whatever), maple syrup, rice syrup, honey, etc.

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Old 01-11-2011, 03:55 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
In case this could be of use to someone, here is some information from Don Matesz' blog, "Primal Wisdom".

Here is his Primal Diet in a Nutshell:

Eat

Necessary
1. Meat, poultry, fish, eggs, and any natural animal fat or fat closely resembling animal fat (e.g. coconut, palm)
Optional
2. Dairy products if tolerated
3. Vegetables, herbs, and spices, including leaves, stems, bulbs, roots
4. Fruits and berries (includes avocados and olives)
5. Nuts such as almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans, coconut, etc.


Avoid
1. Cereal grains and grain products (bread, pasta, pastries, etc.)
2. Legumes (beans and peas, including soy and peanuts)
3. Grain-like seeds (quinoa, amaranth, teff, etc.)
4. Seed oils and oil seeds (corn, safflower, sunflower, flax, sesame, hemp, etc.)
5. Sugars, including cane sugar (white, brown, organic, whatever), maple syrup, rice syrup, honey, etc.
Thank you Auntie Em, yes this is helpful.

I noticed the bulbs and roots are allowed; could you elaborate?

I've been known to use flax and flax oil, but I see it made the avoid list. I mainly use olive oil or butter. Sometimes Walnut or Grapeseed oil if I make my own mayo. Do you use any type of oil?

What about sweeteners? I've tried giving up sweeteners altogther, but I keep hanging on to my Stevia, mainly in my coffee.

I'm SO off balance right now and I know the only way to get it back is to eat clean.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:01 AM   #82
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Maria, I'm not Auntie Em, but maybe I can answer some of your questions.

Bulbs and roots, strict paleo (i.e., Whole9 or Cordain) does not consider potatos paleo; however, other bulbs/roots such as onions, carrots, and turnips are allowed. Primal (Mark's Daily Apple) allows potatos and sweet potatos.

Flax oil is rancid almost the minute you open the bottle. Unless you really like the taste, I'd advise against it. If you're using it as an Omega 3 source, most people cannot convert ALA into EPA/DHA effeciently, you're better off just sticking with fish oil. Personally, I use small amounts of nut and avacado oils in salads. For mayo I'd use the same mixed with coconut oil, enough nut/avo oil to keep it from getting rock hard in the fridge. Or I'd use a light olive oil.

Sweetners, if you like stevia in your coffee I don't see any harm in small amounts. I'm still trying to get the last of the splenda out of my coffee.

I think the rules that Auntie Em posted are a great starting point. I'd also recommend checking Mark's Daily Apple or Robb Wolf's site.

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Old 01-11-2011, 05:44 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
In case this could be of use to someone, here is some information from Don Matesz' blog, "Primal Wisdom".

Here is his Primal Diet in a Nutshell:

Eat

Necessary
1. Meat, poultry, fish, eggs, and any natural animal fat or fat closely resembling animal fat (e.g. coconut, palm)
Optional
2. Dairy products if tolerated
3. Vegetables, herbs, and spices, including leaves, stems, bulbs, roots
4. Fruits and berries (includes avocados and olives)
5. Nuts such as almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans, coconut, etc.


Avoid
1. Cereal grains and grain products (bread, pasta, pastries, etc.)
2. Legumes (beans and peas, including soy and peanuts)
3. Grain-like seeds (quinoa, amaranth, teff, etc.)
4. Seed oils and oil seeds (corn, safflower, sunflower, flax, sesame, hemp, etc.)
5. Sugars, including cane sugar (white, brown, organic, whatever), maple syrup, rice syrup, honey, etc.
This is helpful, thanks. I was thinking I was pretty far away from this framework, but as it turns out, I'm eating like this every day.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:29 AM   #84
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Hi, Maria. To add to Tamara's excellent post, it is important to eat food with the best lipid profiles available, and, not only to avoid oils which are often rancid (oxidized) when one buys them, but also to avoid those which oxidize when heated.

The websites Tamara recommended are very good resources, as well as Dr. Kurt Harris', PaleoNu. I will let the experts do the explaining.

I, personally, do not eat potatoes because I do not eat nightshades. IMO, if one wishes to eat them, and they have no ill effects for that person, I don't know of any reason to avoid them. I occasionally eat parsnips. I have recently started using coconut oil, just eating it, and am enjoying it. I reduced my dairy fat a bit to balance my overall intake. Otherwise, I eat beef fat, fatty fish, butter, cream, and take cod liver oil. I used to use stevia which I grew, but stopped using anything that tastes sweet. If stevia does not bother you, I don't know of any reason to avoid it.

Christine, welcome. Don's blog has some nice information on it. I thought that "nutshell" explanation was a good starting list.

Dr. Kurt Harris' website explains the science in a very accessible way. He writes succinctly and clearly, which I most appreciate.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 01-11-2011 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: added a thought
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by maria40nc View Post
I noticed the bulbs and roots are allowed; could you elaborate?
A lot of root vegetables are relatively high carbohydrate but as far as being paleo/primal they are allowed because they're a very natural, reliable, and common food source. Usually potatoes and similar tubers are excepted because they need to be cooked to be eaten, have some nasty stuff in them (lectins, for example), and in our case, are high-carb/high-starch. Paleo eaters who aren't low-carbers often eat sweet potatoes, especially athletes.

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Originally Posted by maria40nc View Post
I've been known to use flax and flax oil, but I see it made the avoid list. I mainly use olive oil or butter. Sometimes Walnut or Grapeseed oil if I make my own mayo. Do you use any type of oil?
A lot of oils, including flaxseed oil, need a lot more processing than the paleo diet allows for. It also does go rancid pretty fast. I'm pretty sure that includes grapeseed as well... walnut does too, but I know a lot of people who use it. The main oils I seek to avoid are soybean and corn. Mostly soybean because it seems to be in everything

Extra virgin olive oil is okay as long as you don't use it for frying or other cooking. Butter is a good cooking oil, as is coconut oil.

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Originally Posted by maria40nc View Post
What about sweeteners? I've tried giving up sweeteners altogther, but I keep hanging on to my Stevia, mainly in my coffee.
I'd say if you like it, watch how it affects your body and go from there. The main problem with no-sugar sweeteners is that in some ways they act just like sugar, for example making people crave sweets. That's one of the main reasons people who switch to diet soda from regular soda sometimes gain weight; diet soda usually won't make you gain if that's all you're changing and is more likely to help you lose, but it is sweet and that can make some people go into "eat sweet things" mode which can allegedly mean a kick in insulin. I can't confirm or deny the insulin part, but "eat sweet things" mode is bad enough. Stevia can have the same problem, as well as fruit and... well, anything sweet. In my case the occasional artificial sweetener, fruit, or stevia doesn't do that. So just watch your body and your progress.

I'd say stevia is a better choice than other no-sugar sweeteners. If it doesn't thwart your efforts, I wouldn't worry about it. How something affects you trumps history.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:29 PM   #86
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[QUOTE=maria40nc;14250377]
I'm a lost soul. I've been back and forth between LCF and the Caveman Forum. I feel like I fit in neither and both. Those Caveman forum folks are HARDCORE and can be a bit intimidating to those of us who are "hybrids."
[QUOTE]

I could not agree with you more.....I didnt even get one welcome when I introduced myself in the forum. As many people as there are on there, they are all...well....snooty!

Thank Goodness for LCF!
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:51 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria40nc View Post
I'm a lost soul. I've been back and forth between LCF and the Caveman Forum. I feel like I fit in neither and both. Those Caveman forum folks are HARDCORE and can be a bit intimidating to those of us who are "hybrids."
Because it came up again...

Yeah, I get that too. I visit occasionally, but there's a lot of very strict (almost romantic) paleo stuff going on. If someone says they eat certain things they sometimes get jumped on "That's not paleo! Don't kid yourself!" Honey, salt, and tomatoes were the biggies. Not that anyone needs to eat those and honey certainly isn't good on my very-low-carb paleo, but seriously, give me a break.

To make matters worse, an IRL friend of mine goes there and it's extremely uncomfortable for me to see that he's a pretty big contributor to that atmosphere. He's not like that off that forum, it's just one of those things where you're in an environment where everyone "eats like you" and so if someone doesn't actually eat like you you feel like it's an invitation to tell them why whether they asked or not. He was one of the people who inspired me to try it to begin with, I don't want to think about him like that, so I just sort of stay away from where he might be, which is usually places that have a pretty unfriendly atmosphere anyway.

Last edited by Antlers; 01-11-2011 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:44 PM   #88
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I have had similar experiences at other forums, which is why I started this thread.

I think that some of those who eat a non-mainstream diet, eat it as a symbol of something pure which they long for very much. The underlying needs can get in the way of being kind to others, because the differentness is viewed as a threat.

I'm glad you all are here. I appreciate your posts and your care for what is decent and inclusive. It's delightful and refreshing.

I like reading the fascinating things Speck so generously posts about.

And Antlers, you are so good at writing about this WOE. You have a real gift. I encourage anyone interested to read Antlers' blog.

Tamara is a marvelous cook, and describes what she does in ways that I think could attract many people to a pastoral diet. I think she and Antlers are eloquent in explaining this WOE and the science.

Luvanurse, I agree that being kind and supportive is vital to a forum. It's nice to have a corner on a large forum where one feels more at home. Hope you are doing well.

---

To me, "pastoral/primal/lacto-paleo/any name at all", has general parameters and is very inclusive.

I appreciate Dr. Kurt Harris' stating that establishing the evolutionary metabolic milieu is based on avoiding the neolithic agents of disease.

For me, this WOE of eating is:

- to be as nourishing to my health and well being, as possible, taking my genetic heritage well into account
- to further being more self-sufficient, thrifty, etc.
- and to enjoy myself

I ran across a lovely blog, in case it is of help to someone, Perfectly Primal. It is written by a young woman who brings a great deal of beauty to it. It might be of help those to who are starting out.

Here is a link to Dr. Emily Deans' blog, Evolutionary Psychiatry, which I find well worth reading. She is another doctor who offers her blog out of kindness and generosity, not promoting some product or her professional services.

Hope you all have something scrumptious for supper.

Sending you all best wishes, and smiles of thanks.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 01-11-2011 at 03:54 PM.. Reason: typing error
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:07 AM   #89
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Auntie Em, you are a treasure. Thank you for all the blog links and for starting a great discussion here. (Also for the compliment :blush

I'd forgotten I had my blog linked in my sig, I hadn't done anything with it for months. Went to go back and start writing again and realized I'd been hijacked! So, until I fix that I can't log in or manage it. <bang head here> I need to get to digging through code this weekend, I found a probable fix, just haven't had time or motivation to put on my programmers hat.

I really need to find some time to catch up on all the great blog posts. Problem is I spend all day on a computer at work, by the time I come home I haven't wanted to get on mine to do more than check e-mail, sometimes not even that! I'll be in a hotel this weekend, maybe I'll take the computer with me and catch up then.

I had salmon and zuchinni with Garam Masala (it really does go with everything) last night. I HAD planned on having leftovers for today, but Rat Man came over to shovel my walk and I fed him. Oh well, just gives me an excuse to go buy another steak and more zuchinni.

Good day everyone.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:37 AM   #90
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Tamara, thank you for your kind thoughts.

Hope the computer clean up isn't too tedious to take care of. I'm sure those who get to enjoy your cooking are most grateful.

Am looking forward to your next posts.

Best wishes to you for a very nice day.
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