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-   -   Any maintainlings practice or try Paleo-ish plans? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/paleolithic-neanderthin/658487-any-maintainlings-practice-try-paleo-ish-plans.html)

Minnas 01-26-2010 02:47 PM

Any maintainlings practice or try Paleo-ish plans?
 
I've been researching this idea and am tempted. I have never done it or attempted but it appeals to me. It certainly makes a lot of sense on an intellectual level. There seems to be a very wide range of what is considered Paleo (sort of like Atkins!) and some is almost no carb (just meat) all the way up to people who eat tubers and fruit along with meat and fat. Some use dairy but most do not. I'm just toying with the idea and was curious to see if any of you practice this or incorporate Paleo principles into your plan or used it during weight loss. If not, do you have any thoughts on the plan (ie, why you would not choose to do it.) Just looking for honest ideas, opinions and experiences. Thanks!

liza15 01-26-2010 03:11 PM

The thing I would wonder about is....so many healing properties come from plants. Vegetables and fruits have so many cancer preventing and health benifits....so I would wonder...???? But also, it seems that people around the world, can exist on many types of limited diets, I think the main key is that it is NATURAL.

Minnas 01-26-2010 04:01 PM

Hey you! Yeah, there definitely seem to be different diets that work for different groups over time. I find it so interesting. As a low carber for so many years if I had a nickle for everytime someone threw the Japanese/Chinese and their white rice up in my face and asked me how to explain that!

Even among the Paleos there is much discussion over eating fruits and veggies. The all meat group seems to feel they get all of the nutrients needed through meat because the animal they are eating ate the veggies for them, lol. (Paraphrasing and NOT mocking that idea in any way)

Given there seems to be some evidence emerging that antioxidants are actually bad for us, not good for us it is an interesting discussion. They have some very interesting points regarding foods that are toxic to us that we eat like eggplant, tomatoes (the nightshade family) as well as foods that contain other components known to be toxic to humans. There are so many layers to this discussion. They do seem to have some very interesting and seemingly valid points to make.

I was just reading what the PaNu guy eats and it's 5% carb intake which is VLC but he's eating tomatoes, salsa, mushroom, onions, green beans and other low carb veggies daily so it would be hard to argue with that I guess. I admit I am strangely fascinated with the strict carnivores. I big-a$$ steak a day and they seem to be fine and happy...and skinny!:p Who knows?

junkfoodmonkey 01-27-2010 01:33 AM

I like the principle of paleo, but I like my dairy to much to go for it fully. I know people have opinions on whether milk is a natural food for humans to eat (after being weaned, obviously!) and of course some people are lactose intolerate. But I've done "no dairy for a month" before to see if I felt any different and I didn't, and I didn't when I started using it again. So I think if you can tolerate dairy it's a valuable source of extra nutrients.

I'm sceptical of the idea that paleo should be all meat, since stone age humans were hunter gatherers, not just hunters. And the food obtained by the gatherers (i.e. the women!) would be a more reliable source of food than the hunters. Sometimes a hunt fails to catch anything after all, but unless the land is blighted with drought or something, the gatherers will nearly always bring something back. Hmm, the contribution of women in society underestimated once again? Imagine that... Of course that doesn't mean that all vegetables and fruits MUST be good for us, like you say, some have toxins in that affect humans.

Quote:

Hey you! Yeah, there definitely seem to be different diets that work for different groups over time. I find it so interesting. As a low carber for so many years if I had a nickle for everytime someone threw the Japanese/Chinese and their white rice up in my face and asked me how to explain that!
What I've seen is that though they eat rice, if you actually look at the portion of rice they'd eat with a meal, compared to what's served with Asian style meals in the West, it's much, much smaller. Another point I've read too - in Asian countries with a rice dominated diet, the people are on average smaller than the peoples of Africa, Europe and the Americas. So does their diet hold them back from growing as tall and strong as people in countries without a rice-based diet? The fact that average height keeps on increasing in the Western world is usually put down as much to nutrition - to everyone at least getting enough calories - as genetics. Of course, how healthy the source of those calories is - i.e. grains! - is another issue.

So I could say, I keep paleo in mind as a kind of guiding principle to start from, but I'm not ruled by it.

Minnas 01-27-2010 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkfoodmonkey (Post 13053734)
I like the principle of paleo, but I like my dairy to much to go for it fully. I know people have opinions on whether milk is a natural food for humans to eat (after being weaned, obviously!) and of course some people are lactose intolerate. But I've done "no dairy for a month" before to see if I felt any different and I didn't, and I didn't when I started using it again. So I think if you can tolerate dairy it's a valuable source of extra nutrients.

I'm sceptical of the idea that paleo should be all meat, since stone age humans were hunter gatherers, not just hunters. And the food obtained by the gatherers (i.e. the women!) would be a more reliable source of food than the hunters. Sometimes a hunt fails to catch anything after all, but unless the land is blighted with drought or something, the gatherers will nearly always bring something back. Hmm, the contribution of women in society underestimated once again? Imagine that... Of course that doesn't mean that all vegetables and fruits MUST be good for us, like you say, some have toxins in that affect humans.

What I've seen is that though they eat rice, if you actually look at the portion of rice they'd eat with a meal, compared to what's served with Asian style meals in the West, it's much, much smaller. Another point I've read too - in Asian countries with a rice dominated diet, the people are on average smaller than the peoples of Africa, Europe and the Americas. So does their diet hold them back from growing as tall and strong as people in countries without a rice-based diet? The fact that average height keeps on increasing in the Western world is usually put down as much to nutrition - to everyone at least getting enough calories - as genetics. Of course, how healthy the source of those calories is - i.e. grains! - is another issue.

So I could say, I keep paleo in mind as a kind of guiding principle to start from, but I'm not ruled by it.

I think what bothers me most about the milk issue is that' giving up milk would eliminate a lot of joy and happiness for me (too!) and I'm not sure I'm willing to give that up based on dogma. That's my issue with the whole philosophy I guess. Geez, I sound like a WW person!! I actually do have bit of lactose intolerance AND I think we are not supposed to be drinking the milk of another species cause that makes no sense to me at all but...I still might try again with the almond milk thing in my coffee and some almond milk cheese (if I can get my hands on it) I do know for certain that cheese was/is an issue with my weight loss especially fresh cheeses. I'm not quite sure what that's about though but I have no doubt that it is. I do think dairy would be last on my list of things to get rid of though. I have plenty of other offenders in my diet so I'm going to wait on making a decision with regards to dairy.

The contribution of women in society being underestimated? Yeah, funny yet sickening in its truth. I've never seen this pointed out before though and it's actually quite a good point I think. I was arguing with a friend last night over ERA and why we still need it even today. Looks like we needed it way back when too! Geez, is that not scary? :down:

I do agree with the Paleo principle that just because it grows in the ground doesn't make it good for the human body. I always have. That was one of my principles in low carb and it continues to make sense to me with Paleo principles, even more so the more I read and learn.
I do wish we had a definitive answer to the rice question. I think its probably true that they don't eat that much but they eat it at every meal and the poor eat it in larger quantities for bulk yet you don't see them getting fat either. I think too their level of exercise is an issue but then that just seems to validate the "just get up and walk around the block" contingent. I just don't know.

ViolaVixen 02-01-2010 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnas (Post 13054279)
I do agree with the Paleo principle that just because it grows in the ground doesn't make it good for the human body.

I have never heard of Paleo before, but I'm assuming it's a pretty much carnivore-oriented diet? More meat, less veggies?

Paleo or no, of course labeling anything "healthy" just because it grows in the ground is definitely bogus! Think of poisonous mushrooms - there's a reason no one eats those ;) On the other hand I don't think it's necessary to label it the opposite: I wouldn't NOT eat it just because it grows in the ground!

I figure, humans are omnivorous creatures. We are able to get the nutrients and energy we need from sources that include other living animals AND plants. As long as foods we choose to eat are not toxic to us in some way, I don't see why one has to give up one or the other :dunno:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnas (Post 13054279)
I do wish we had a definitive answer to the rice question. I think its probably true that they don't eat that much but they eat it at every meal and the poor eat it in larger quantities for bulk yet you don't see them getting fat either. I think too their level of exercise is an issue but then that just seems to validate the "just get up and walk around the block" contingent. I just don't know.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm thinking the rice became a large part of their eating culture because of the workload - many people used to spend hours of their day out in the fields. It's like the farmers of Austria - some traditional Austrian foods are crazy rich in calories, ie a thick layer of lard spread for thick long slices of breads, etc. When you're chopping wood half the day, you NEED those kinds energy resources. But now, as times have changed, tradition is sometimes a bit slow to catch up :dunno:

dansamy 02-01-2010 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViolaVixen (Post 13076296)
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm thinking the rice became a large part of their eating culture because of the workload - many people used to spend hours of their day out in the fields. It's like the farmers of Austria - some traditional Austrian foods are crazy rich in calories, ie a thick layer of lard spread for thick long slices of breads, etc. When you're chopping wood half the day, you NEED those kinds energy resources. But now, as times have changed, tradition is sometimes a bit slow to catch up :dunno:

Completely anecdotal, but.... my DH grew up in a house that is still (to this day) heated only by a wood-burning stove. As soon as he and his twin were old enough to safely wield an axe, a sledge hammer and a wedge (about 10 or so), the chore of log splitting by hand fell to them. Their parents used to feed them a big pancake breakfast on days that their dad would be cutting down trees and they'd be splitting logs. When we got married, DH, 6'2", weighed ~130lbs and was all lean muscle mass. (He's not anymore.... We need to do better!)

I think hard laborious work does require readily available fast energy sources. I don't think glucose is a problem if you are burning it off daily.

junkfoodmonkey 02-01-2010 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy (Post 13076517)
I think hard laborious work does require readily available fast energy sources. I don't think glucose is a problem if you are burning it off daily.

Definitely. It's like I've often heard said, or grandparents didn't go to the gym. Life was just harder work then! They did more walking, all those kinds of things.

dansamy 02-01-2010 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkfoodmonkey (Post 13077105)
Definitely. It's like I've often heard said, or grandparents didn't go to the gym. Life was just harder work then! They did more walking, all those kinds of things.


And now that their children are all grown and gone, my in-laws have purchased: a gas-powered hydraulic log splitter, a dryer and a dishwasher. :rofl: :hyst:

(They also "splurged" on 2 small window ACs: one for the main living/dining room and another for their bedroom.)

yorick 02-01-2010 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnas (Post 13052050)
I've been researching this idea and am tempted. I have never done it or attempted but it appeals to me. It certainly makes a lot of sense on an intellectual level. There seems to be a very wide range of what is considered Paleo (sort of like Atkins!) and some is almost no carb (just meat) all the way up to people who eat tubers and fruit along with meat and fat. Some use dairy but most do not. I'm just toying with the idea and was curious to see if any of you practice this or incorporate Paleo principles into your plan or used it during weight loss. If not, do you have any thoughts on the plan (ie, why you would not choose to do it.) Just looking for honest ideas, opinions and experiences. Thanks!

I think some Paleo plans can be very healthy. If I were to choose one, I would probably go with the "Primal Blueprint" plan. Google "Primal Blueprint" or check out the authors site - I think his site is "Mark's Daily Apple." I've known at least one person to have very good success with this. My little research on the plan suggested to me that it is pretty healthy.

Leo41 02-01-2010 03:58 PM

I like Mark's thinking, and I read his site regularly at the Daily Apple.

I don't necessarily believe that we should eat like our ancestors (our bodies have evolved and our lives are very different in terms of energy expenditure, etc.). But I also like the idea of eating as cleanly as possible.

I've eaten low carb for several years, and recently began eliminating things for the following reasons:

1. I discovered that my body reacts to artificial sweeteners just as though they're the real thing, so I cut out all artificial sweeteners.

2. I'm hypothyroid, and we often have problems with gluten. I did a self-test by abstaining for a month and then eating some delicious bread at an Indian restaurant. The results showed that I obviously have some gluten issues, so I decided to cut out ALL grains (some bran crackers were the only things I was eating at the time.

3. Hypothyroidism tends to raise blood glucose, and I decided to eliminate all dairy because of the sugar involved. (It has helped lower my number.)

The only thing I actually gave up for 'primal' was natural peanut butter, mainly because I agreed with Mark's argument. Now I use natural almond butter. I eliminated all these things several months ago.

Here's what's developed. I'm eating basically the same level of calories, but I eat mainly fish, meat, eggs, veggies, olive oil, and nuts (walnuts and almonds)--and I'm suddenly losing weight faster and more steadily. I don't feel the least deprived and love this WOE.

what's fascinating to me is that this WOE seems to have helped my very compromised metabolism (I'm also post-menopausal and have a genetically slow metabolism, too). At least that's my guess based on what's been happening recently [fingers crossed that I'm right and this will continue].

peanutte 02-01-2010 08:10 PM

That is all very interesting, Leo. Thanks for going into detail about it.

Minnas 02-01-2010 09:31 PM

Thanks everyone for your input. I am fascinated by this. I remember looking into this many years ago and thought it was crazy!!:laugh: Funny how things change.

I read Mark's blog daily. I am reading PaNu now too plus a few others. I'm not sure if I am ready or how to go about transitioning but I am going to start making some changes to move in this direction and see what happens.

ViolaVixen 02-02-2010 12:29 AM

Leo, that sounds very clean indeed and frankly quite appealing (to me, at least). Thanks for sharing the details! Especially the artificial sweeteners - I by no means use them daily, but of course when I'm baking a treat, what else am I going to use, sugar?:rofl: But these chemicals are definitely NOT natural - trying to eliminate them is something I'm considering for my own good.

junkfoodmonkey 02-02-2010 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy (Post 13077529)
And now that their children are all grown and gone, my in-laws have purchased: a gas-powered hydraulic log splitter, a dryer and a dishwasher. :rofl: :hyst:

(They also "splurged" on 2 small window ACs: one for the main living/dining room and another for their bedroom.)

The convenience of modern life. :D Hey, after all this time, they deserve to take it easy.

I was just this morning thinking about my grandparents. One grandfather was a coalminer - obviously, very physical work! The other was a drayman, so spending all day hauling around big barrels of beer and in his case also dealing with the dray horses (and they were big strong beasts!) And even my grandmothers, they'd be doing their laundry by hand. And lugging around scuttles of coal for the fire. Heaving rugs outside to bash the heck out of them with carpet beaters, all that stuff. If I had to do a week of that, it would probably kill me! :stars:

ViolaVixen 02-02-2010 05:49 AM

Hmm, makes me wonder - if I just did more housework, maybe I wouldn't have to workout at all! ;)

Prairieprof 02-02-2010 02:42 PM

I'm a big fan of Mark's Daily Apple and the Primal Blueprint, which is basically his version of Paleo principles (well the eating part of it). I'm not 100%, I do eat dairy (which he sees as sort of a gray area, not the devil) and artificial sweeteners (trying a bit half-heartedly to cut back, as they don't seem to bother me at all). Primal Blueprint 101 | Mark's Daily Apple

oyvey 02-02-2010 04:15 PM

This is basically how I eat. I make homemade yogurt with grass fed cream every now and again, buy a lovely piece of aged gouda every now and again, but basically, paleo. Primal, in Sisson's description. I certainly share his ideas about exercise (walk/lift heavy things/run around sometimes), though I do not have his washboard abs.

junkfoodmonkey 02-03-2010 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViolaVixen (Post 13080375)
Hmm, makes me wonder - if I just did more housework, maybe I wouldn't have to workout at all! ;)

Only if you get rid of your washing machine and vacuum cleaner. ;)

joycemmn 02-04-2010 06:33 PM

I had high hopes for Paleo and wasted good money on a few books on the topic, but in the end it just wasn't for me. Too restrictive. I have researched South Beach diet and feel this is something I can live with. Starting it tomorrow.

I did Paleo for two weeks, felt sluggish and awful and was unhappy with the lack of variety. Not knocking it; it just wasn't for me.

joycemmn 02-04-2010 06:35 PM

oops, sorry, I am nowhere near my weight loss goal. Didn't realize I was on the maintainers board! Not enough caffeine today!

JazzleBug 02-04-2010 06:46 PM

Subscribing. Am on day two of following the PaNu 12 steps with my husband. Still a long way to go where weight's concerned, though, so I probably shouldn't participate in the thread.

(yesterday was rough for some reason, today was really easy)

Minnas 02-05-2010 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzleBug (Post 13094305)
Subscribing. Am on day two of following the PaNu 12 steps with my husband. Still a long way to go where weight's concerned, though, so I probably shouldn't participate in the thread.

(yesterday was rough for some reason, today was really easy)

Hey, not so fast there missy!

So what are you eating? What's different? How do you feel? Feeling happy and satisfied? Notice any changes (know it's way early but though I'd ask anyway) Was there anything different from hard day 1 to easy day 2?

Now that you have Hashis (congrats on figuring that one out!) will you still stay the course on PaNu?

JazzleBug 02-05-2010 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnas (Post 13098676)
Hey, not so fast there missy!

So what are you eating? What's different? How do you feel? Feeling happy and satisfied? Notice any changes (know it's way early but though I'd ask anyway) Was there anything different from hard day 1 to easy day 2?

Now that you have Hashis (congrats on figuring that one out!) will you still stay the course on PaNu?

:o LOL

I hope it's okay to post this link. :aprayer: This is what I'm doing. PaNu - Get Started and PaNu - P?Nu Blog - How to LoseWeight . I think the first day was hard because I had to break myself of the cheese snacking. I looooove my cheese, but realize that I've been eating way too much of it. What I cut out in cheese, I replaced with HWC and butter. I ate, literally, zero carbs the first day. Second day, I felt okay, but felt better after adding some carbs at dinner (salad). Today, I've been up and down with emotions because of the whole diagnosis thing, so it's not a great indicator of how the food plan was, but I did feel more energy at dinner tonight after eating some green beans. Even without the carbs, my tummy and mouth feel satisfied. Overall (after the first day), I feel about the same as I did doing Atkins (after I cut out artificial sugar). So, it's all good. I'm hoping that with thyroid treatment, I'll be able to stick to this plan, because the concept and theories just really jive with us.

That said, I have been gaining about one pound a day since I started. I was thrilled to discover that, let me tell you. :rolleyes: :laugh: Whether or not I stay on PaNu depends on how things go after I'm getting some treatment. If it's not working, I'll try adding a ton of veggies to up my carb count before I give up, as I've heard that some hashi's folks do better on more carbs.

I'm TRYING to go with the flow. :rolleyes:

Minnas 02-05-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzleBug (Post 13098750)
:o LOL

I hope it's okay to post this link. :aprayer: This is what I'm doing. PaNu - Get Started and PaNu - P?Nu Blog - How to LoseWeight . I think the first day was hard because I had to break myself of the cheese snacking. I looooove my cheese, but realize that I've been eating way too much of it. What I cut out in cheese, I replaced with HWC and butter. I ate, literally, zero carbs the first day. Second day, I felt okay, but felt better after adding some carbs at dinner (salad). Today, I've been up and down with emotions because of the whole diagnosis thing, so it's not a great indicator of how the food plan was, but I did feel more energy at dinner tonight after eating some green beans. Even without the carbs, my tummy and mouth feel satisfied. Overall (after the first day), I feel about the same as I did doing Atkins (after I cut out artificial sugar). So, it's all good. I'm hoping that with thyroid treatment, I'll be able to stick to this plan, because the concept and theories just really jive with us.

That said, I have been gaining about one pound a day since I started. I was thrilled to discover that, let me tell you. :rolleyes: :laugh: Whether or not I stay on PaNu depends on how things go after I'm getting some treatment. If it's not working, I'll try adding a ton of veggies to up my carb count before I give up, as I've heard that some hashi's folks do better on more carbs.

I'm TRYING to go with the flow. :rolleyes:

Yeah, you must be thrilled and relieved to have the diagnosis! Amazing isnt' it!?

I'm having all the bloodwork done soon (just ordered it online today) so I can get to the bottom of my issues with hunger and weight. It seems like the last 3-4 months have been so difficult for me and I want to know why. My mom has Hashi's so maybe that's it? I had full panel done years ago but not since so it's due. Of course I just lost my healthcare coverage so I'm self pay right now. Not fun! But I'll deal with whatever the tests show. I just want to know why it's so hard to keep my weight down and why I'm so hungry all the time. I have always had many if not most of the classic signs of hypo but have always been told I was fine. I can't wait to post my test and see what everyone on the thyroid board can tell me. They are great aren't they?

I'll be interested to see where you end up with carbs once you are properly medicated. I do horribly on higher carbs so I can't imagine it for me. It would be fun though, lol! Think of all the extra stuff you can eat!! Woo Hoo!!:clap:

Well, good luck on your new adventures!

JazzleBug 02-05-2010 05:57 PM

Thank you. I AM thrilled. Just to have an answer to my questions after all.these.years.

The thyroid folks on this board are phenomenal. Had I not stumbled upon 2bflawless in one of the challenge threads, I wouldn't have found the thyroid forum here or nonstickpam or any of the others. I have so much to learn still. Self-pay or not, I'm so glad you're being proactive about it. I'm military, so there was a big chance that I'd have to pay if my tests were technically IN range. Luckily (:rolleyes:), my antibodies were out of whack, but I still don't know what Tricare will pay for in terms of medication. We'll see. :dunno: Regardless, the treatment will be worth it. Easier with insurance, yes, but definitely worth self-pay and I would/will if necessary. I hope you find some answers.

I update my blog quite a bit (in sig), but I'm sure I'll be spoutin' off about the PaNu all over the boards, too. :p

Good luck to you, too, Minnas! It will all work out.

ViolaVixen 02-06-2010 01:10 AM

I don't know what Hashis is, but what you ladies are going through sure sounds frustrating. I wish you the best in figuring it all out and getting it under control! :hugs:

These forums are such an eye-opener. Before getting into LC, I had NO idea how many diet modification plans there were out there and how differently they can affect people!

ViolaVixen 02-06-2010 03:27 PM

So I'm a Colbert fan and I was just catching up on the Report from this past week - the guest on Feb 3rd's episode reminded me of this thread! He has a "caveman diet." The interview is probably more for comic and entertainment effect than info, but hey the guy's definitely pro-low-carb!

Full Episode | February 3, 2010 - Peter Cove, John Durant | Colbert Report - It's the third segment.

So his "dream woman" doesn't eat sugar, eats meat, is lactose intolerant and doesn't tolerate grains either (doesn't eat dairy or wheat)... hmm sounds like he should join the forums and meet some of us? LOL


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