Why NOT eat like paleo man? (not a plug)

[Songwriter]

So, humans have evolved for millions of years. The last 10,000, we've screwed it up with the creation of agriculture... grains. In the past hundred years or so, we've screwed it up with sugar. Then, countless chemicals and additives that are certainly not found with natural food.

So, why wouldn't a paleo diet be the healthiest? Ever thought about that? Point being, I certainly would like to enjoy healthy old age, I'd like to eat the healthiest way.

Assume that cost is not an issue. I mean, within reason. After all, health IS the most important thing, right? If you DOUBLED your food costs but it gave you terrific health a shot at a long, healthy life, it would be worth that, right? Right.

[jezzie]

Why NOT eat like paleo man?

There's some truth to that.
If I could spend double, or in some cases triple, I would.
But there are no guarantees
( I don't think they lived a very long life. )

.

[steady]

I am not knowledgeable on the subject but I think about this too. I get stuck on the fact, that paleo man lived a very short lives due to death by hunting, lack of shelter, etc. Since they died early, do we actually *know* what they would have died had they reached later ages? Would it be just "old age" or actual illnesses, which may or may not be attributed to their diet. Do you know what I am asking? I guess what is the proof or support that a paleo diet is optimal?

Maybe someone has more knowledge or can provide a sources of info. I get stuck on this point and never really move forward to pursue a paleo diet although I find it very intriguing.

[mztags90]

There is a diet out there called the Paleo Diet, believe it was a book, I'd have to look............. but critics downed it so bad like they did Atkins when he first tried to change the sistem then.........it kinda lost its way. Guess you could say it want by way of the caveman......pun intended ....lol

[Songwriter]

Originally Posted by steady

Since they died early, do we actually *know* what they would have died had they reached later ages? Would it be just "old age" or actual illnesses, which may or may not be attributed to their diet. Do you know what I am asking? I guess what is the proof or support that a paleo diet is optimal?

I think the assumption would be (is mine, anyway) that Darwin's survival-of-the-fittest fits here. Meaning that evolution is creating an animal that can survive in the most vigorous way for the longest. Except it seems I did read someone postulate that maybe once you reproduce, you're done. (That evolution would not care whether you lived to age 90 or whatever... your contribution to the survival of the species is over.)

Originally Posted by mztags90

There is a diet out there called the Paleo Diet, believe it was a book, I'd have to look............. but critics downed it so bad like they did Atkins when he first tried to change the sistem then.........it kinda lost its way. Guess you could say it want by way of the caveman......pun intended ....lol

I read up on that book (by Loren Cordain) and it looks like bunk to me. My first thoughts were that the guy was trying to be politically correct and that is exactly the phrase I saw when I found a review. Which bashed the book as full of horse hockey.

Found it.

I wonder if there is a paleo diet book that has gained more favor?

[steady]

Originally Posted by mztags90

There is a diet out there called the Paleo Diet, believe it was a book, I'd have to look............. but critics downed it so bad like they did Atkins when he first tried to change the sistem then.........it kinda lost its way. Guess you could say it want by way of the caveman......pun intended ....lol

Haha...Thanks for the info... I know about the book, but have not been motivated enough to actually get it...because I am very satisfied with an Atkins Maintenance diet, but was hoping to find a very good reason (ie evidence with regard to health) to go out and spend the money to find out more and actually pursue the diet.

I guess I don't know the exacts of the paleo diet, but I generally stick to meat, veggies, and fruit but the desire that occasional dairy product called CHEESE is really what keeps me from taking the leap to find the evidence to go paleo.

Songbird- we must have been writing at the same time...I recall reading that too---ie humans are meant to reproduce and then who cares if you live or die. Thanks for your input on the book... your evaluation of the book answers my question.

[jem51]

actually there are still quite a lot of people who follow loren cordain's plan. i still get his news letters. he does believe that paleos ate a lower fat diet....not necessarily low fat. but still he keeps up on research and passes it along. there is evidence that the few paleos that did not die from animal attacks, infection, etc and live to a ripe old age still were disease free. at least the diseases of our society, anyway. there are still tribes that live this way and there are always some who manage to see old age. w/o antibiotics though, they die from things we don't give a second thought to....like women dieing from infections after a tear in childbirth. but when you think about it, if paleos lived to be forty w/o disease that is still big. we are certainly not able to achieve that. we are just medicated.

[jezzie]

if paleos lived to be forty w/o disease that is still big. we are certainly not able to achieve that.
we are just medicated.

I have four kids (39 - 44) who eat everything, are not overweight, don't take supplements
and are free from disease and medication. But all four do lead 'active' lives.

I'd guess cavemen were pretty active.

I just don't think it's all as simple as authors make it out to be. JMHO
.

[VSL]

Protein Power LifePlan is an excellent book for people interested in this, and makes a compelling case for a more paleolithic diet/lifestyle. Neanderthin is a good read too (a more to-the-point version of PPLP, IMO).

I didn't like The Paleo Diet because Cordain was still a bit afraid of saturated fat in it (think his views may have changed by now though).

[anniemo]

the paleo diet is actually a very good read. gives a lot of scientific reasoning. i think the main issue with saturated fat (which i love and eat freely) was not that it is saturated, but the amount of crap that goes into all of our food these days. the paleolithic humans survived on animals free of hormones, antibiotics, corn, and filler. i'm sure their meat was much healthier. buffalo is fantastic as well as ostrich and other game meats. i only eat organic, no hormone/antibiotic, grass fed meats and poultry. it is more expensive, but very important to me. i think the argument is that corn fed cows hopped on meds (they aren't supposed to have corn, so they get sick and the farmers keep them on all kinds of antibiotics to counter the crap they feed them...much like humans) have tons of nasty bad stuff lodged into their fat. if you eliminate the crap, then the fat is perfectly good for you. that is my take on it.

[Songwriter]

Originally Posted by VSL

Protein Power LifePlan is an excellent book for people interested in this, and makes a compelling case for a more paleolithic diet/lifestyle.

Haha, I should have known. My diet of preference is PP; I read the original book. But I just now got Lifeplan and have read the first chapter and yes, it is very much tuned into the Paleo WOE. I knew that.

[hockeyrules]

Extinction? That's an issue for me.

I crack myself up. Sad.

[scarletakb]

ok.. so, isn't atkins essentially a "paleo diet"? I mean.. you mostly eat meats, fish, seafood, fresh veggies, eventually some fruit... but.. it seems like we Atkin's dieters are almost there anyway..

[jezzie]

I just had a vision of a caveman using his club to churn cream into butter, eating his mock danish .....
then going to his back yard to feed the chickens and tend to his spinach, broccoli and asparagus plants.



Off the subject a bit but did that caveman TV show ever start?

[anniemo]

in the paleo diet dairy, peanuts, cashews, all beans (no matter what "phase"), no grains, starchy veg etc are allowed. basically, anything that you HAVE to cook to make it digestible is not food. the thought on dairy is that after childhood you are lactose intolerant. in atkins you can have dairy, peanuts and cashews (they are legumes not nuts), beans, grains, and starchy veg at some point in moderation. paleo is the cleanest low carb diet.

[scarletakb]

huh? This is what I found..

The Paleo Diet is short for "Paleolithic Diet". While on this diet, one cuts out grains, and eats mostly fruits, vegetables, and lean protein.

So, "paleo man" gathered fruits, and veggies, what ever was in his area.. and also ate meat he hunter.. he was a hunter and gatherer...

[anniemo]

that is correct scarletakb

[scarletakb]

ahhh.. I see.. so, basically kimkins.. right? but completely raw.. and more calories (I would hope)

[Hanosaurus]

Paleolithic diet sounds like a "whole foods" diet.

[anniemo]

i meant "aren't" allowed earlier. sorry.

paleo diet is a whole foods diet. i have no clue what kimkins is. there is no calorie restriction with the paleo diet. i think the carb level is supposed to be around 72g or less if you have autoimmune issues. there is a lot of great scientific evidence in the book and i agree with most of what is said. i don't follow the paleo diet, but i eat whole healthy low carb foods.

[FatKat184]

cavemen died young because of low-carbing saber tooth tigers. those tigers were the bane of wooly mammoths who insisted that a hi-carb/low fat diet was healthiest. fast forward 10,000 years and we're still having the same conversation!

i make myself laff.

[jezzie]

Originally Posted by FatKat184

cavemen died young because of low-carbing saber tooth tigers. those tigers were the bane of wooly mammoths who insisted that a hi-carb/low fat diet was healthiest. fast forward 10,000 years and we're still having the same conversation!

i make myself laff.

Me too.

[Patlaf]

me three

Pat

[RoseofSharon]

On the other hand, mankind thrived for thousands of years with agriculture, and obesity was not a problem until the manufacture of processed foods. People worked hard on their farms, harvested and preserved what they could, raised their own meats, fished, hunted and traded for other items.

From what I have read, mortality was very high in Paleo times, in part because of the constant search for food and the vagaries of the weather on hunting and gathering. Probably they stayed thin just trying to find food.

It just seems wierd to me to suggest that a prehistoric diet is better because people were thinner back then. People were also thinner with early agriculture, and thinner pretty much every generation until now. Plus it is strange he suggests no grains, since archeologists have found evidence that paleo man harvested wild grains. He just didn't figure out how to plant them! And when he did, he did so pronto, lol.

Since the advent of agriculture we have found many wholesome foods, such as growing olives for their oil, a variety of fruits and veggies, and raising animals for their meat, and making cheese, etc. It just seems silly to me that the author of the diet is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. But maybe I have it wrong?

Rose

[jezzie]

Probably they stayed thin just trying to find food.

Bingo!

It just seems silly to me that the author of the diet is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
But maybe I have it wrong?

There are too many variables to compare caveman with modern man.

*The meat they ate may have been 'thinner'. They weren't in fenced in pastures
with their only activity being swatting flies with their tail. Or confined to a pen.

*Cigarettes, exhaust fumes, sedentary lifestyles, stress without release, etc etc.

And how many 10,000 year old internal organs do we have available to check for disease?

Eating nuts, berries and tigers won't take us back to those 'good old days'.

.

[anniemo]

the food was just cleaner. cleaner sources all around. i don't follow the paleo diet, but i will never be able to eat grains. my body doesn't digest them and it makes me want to sleep for weeks straight. i also believe that grains were originally used to accompany a meal, as opposed to being the main focus.

[jezzie]

it makes me want to sleep for weeks straight

Holy Toledo ..... if that happened to me I certainly wouldn't eat grains either.
I usually sleep about 7.5 'most' nights (with or without grains) and I'm happy.

.

[pooticus]

Ok so I haven't read the research per se on the paleo diet nor have I looked up paleo man's lifestyle but using logic here is what I connote their life to consist of and the foods they ate constisted of...

1. Hunters gatherers meant they roamed maybe as much as 20miles or more on foot by day in order to procure food. (So VERY active lifestyle with aerobic activity but quite possibly anaerobic activity by repetitious muscle working like beating roots with rocks to extract food sources.)

2. Sparce daily type of diet consisting mostly of berries, nuts, grasses, wild fruits and veggies, maybe the occasional small animal here or there.

3. Feast or famine eating. When a big animal kill was made, they would gorge on meat and fat especially but the opposite would also be true. Many times they would go days without eating or eating a very subsistance level diet.

4. Diet was fairly low in fat. They constantly had to work hard to get enough fat in their diet cuz their diet was wild game (considerably leaner than domestic meats). They would consume ALL of the animal: brains, marrow, organ meats, fats and even bones and ends of bones in order to get enough fats and vitamins/minerals to survive.

5. What grains they did eat would wear away their teeth because they were not "processed grains" (they were things like wild rices, whole while rye and wheat grasses).

[COLOR="DarkRed"]So that's the paleo diet...What makes you think that eating "our definition" of a paleo diet is remotely similar? Here's what a lot of people believe the paleo diet is today:[/COLOR]
1. Unlimited meats and fats (including highly processed meats like sausage, bacon, hotdogs...I don't think cavemen had hotdogs...)

2. Unlimited nuts and oils.

3. Unlimited calories.

4. Very few if any veggies, fruits.

5. Unlimited sourse of calories on a daily basis. No deprivation. No fasting. No calorie restriction due to deprivation and hard lives. Very little exercise. Man if you're on low carb or paleo diets you don't have to exercise to get the exercise advantage.

6. Eating the whole grains of today means many many more bioavailable calories than they did in a paleolithic time.

The people who probably eat the most paleo type of diet are the very skinny people who nibble and peck their way through eating their entire life...

[jem51]

it was not til well after the discovery of fire that paleos even started eating a little grain. they didn't find any grain or seed in fosilized (sp) feces, (ugh). then much later they started inventing tools for grinding etc. still, they were gathering and processing grain by hand! in the early days or agriculture and even as recently as 30 years ago, grain was a side dish. although the diseases of civilization were gradually increasing along w our change in eating pattern, they are certainly epidemic today especially in this country. and it's not all about processed food (although grains are pretty processed when you think about it). there are many organic, whole grain eating vegetarians who have come back to paleo and low carb because of health reasons. me for one. but having been one, i know a whole world of them.

[FatKat184]

Jezzie and Patlaf --

glad u got a chuckle.