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Old 06-21-2014, 09:40 AM   #151
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yes, that is such a great line....
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:52 AM   #152
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I'd like to add that "Eating Less" by Gillian Riley is a longer/ more in depth? version of Ditching Diets. I've read both; while Ditching Diets covers the bases, Eating Less goes really in depth with a lot of talk on self-esteem and how it's important for the process.

I am currently reading "Eating Less" at the moment Kwerp. Ditching Diets was the best in my opinion so hoping Eating Less will have an impact. Straight forward IE, waiting and watching for hunger and stopping when satisfied sadly doesn't work for me.
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:05 PM   #153
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I am currently reading "Eating Less" at the moment Kwerp. Ditching Diets was the best in my opinion so hoping Eating Less will have an impact. Straight forward IE, waiting and watching for hunger and stopping when satisfied sadly doesn't work for me.

it is definitely a learning process and I am personally not always successful....it is important to remember that we used to have this habit (watch and see how kids eat)....also, eating beyond gentle fullness is just an opportunity to wait fr the next hunger signal...not to throw in the towel and go on a diet or binge.....I am learning different ways to tackle my weakness and love for food....

smaller servings....or serving the regular size.....then taking a few bites and re-assessing....is it yumee? The chicken that is a favorite here came out a little dry last week....I let the kids finish it (ha,ha)....it was not yumee enough for me for it to take the place of other foods since I am eating so little.

I also try to find things to do...I find that I had/ have a love affair with food and it comes at the expense of my family and things I like to do like gardening, scrap booking etc....
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:08 PM   #154
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here is another thought: In her book "Weigh Down' the author talks about 'interviewing' a Thin Eater....while she was devouring her burger and fries and wanted more her friend ate hers slowly and took half of the burger home...she was simply not interested.....I remember then (I read it back in 2007) my co-worker.....no matter what we ate (sometimes we ordered pizza if the cafeteria closed before we got food or simply bought rotisserie chicken at Costco) that she ate what she did but never wanted to take let overs home...I wanted them cause I was going to eat them at home, alone, while everyone was a sleep......there was no end to my appetite....my emotional hunger....food was the medicine for everything....love, happiness, disappointments, hard day at work, good day at work, celebration of anything, and mourning of everything.

I noticed today that I am getting there....I made something to eat that I really like....enough to freeze a bunch....had some yesterday and some today.....today it did not taste quite as good....nothing different....but I think the alluring power of it is gone. i can make more another time...because after all : who wants to eat the same thing every day...and by the time I will want it again I can make it....

The freedom of being able to not having to plan my meals and just eat what I want is amazing....also amazing is how I am realizing how much what I was eating was costing us...I mean, LC or not, I was consuming so much food it was crazy.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:33 PM   #155
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I wanted to share something : been reading others journals the last couple of days..:In regards to IE vs reward eating etc. years ago when my daughter was 9 or 10 we were at a nice restaurant ....now this kid has always been a sweets lover and would always ask 'can I have dessert'? ( we rarely had desert at home since I do not care for sweets and neve think of making it). I was about to say my usual 'if you are still hungry when you finish your meal' but thought ' she always IS hungry for desert' and 'what is the great nutritional value in the Mac and cheese she is about to order (not to mention paying $5 for $0.25 worth of Mac and cheese ) so I said 'how about just desert' she was so happy! She had about 3/4 of it and did not want anymore . It gave me a pause, am I raising an over eater? I mean first she eats her entire meal (whether she is hungry for it or not, remember ? This is pre requisite to getting the desert... And then ( since she 'earned' it, she will eat the entire desert... When it was no prize, given without condition, nothing earned.... She ate as long as it tasted good and she was hungry and stopped. Amazing.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:37 PM   #156
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It gave me a pause, am I raising an over eater? I mean first she eats her entire meal (whether she is hungry for it or not, remember ? This is pre requisite to getting the desert... And then ( since she 'earned' it, she will eat the entire desert... When it was no prize, given without condition, nothing earned.... She ate as long as it tasted good and she was hungry and stopped. Amazing.
Wow, that's thought provoking stuff, thanks.

I remember huge battles over food when I was little because I hated eating, hated feeling full, it affected me for years and made it harder to control my weight as I got older because I always feel like I'm being really unhealthy if I limit my food intake.

Even now, you can figure my age from my screenname, I feel like I'm being somehow 'bad' by not eating at every opportunity, and to be brutally honest I have no concept of intuitive eating for myself, because it never felt like something within my control, even though it is of course.

I wonder whether the reason restrictive diets appeal to so many of us, and then we feel an equally desperate compulsion to cheat and break the rules, is that deep-seated feeling that we're wrong, wasteful, unloveable etc if we make our own food choices?

That food is a battle between the 'good' us who eats what she's told, and the natural us who feels suffocated and like 'love' and approval is on the line over those rules?

you've given me something to think about today, so thank you.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:17 PM   #157
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I wanted to share something : been reading others journals the last couple of days..:In regards to IE vs reward eating etc. years ago when my daughter was 9 or 10 we were at a nice restaurant ....now this kid has always been a sweets lover and would always ask 'can I have dessert'? ( we rarely had desert at home since I do not care for sweets and neve think of making it). I was about to say my usual 'if you are still hungry when you finish your meal' but thought ' she always IS hungry for desert' and 'what is the great nutritional value in the Mac and cheese she is about to order (not to mention paying $5 for $0.25 worth of Mac and cheese ) so I said 'how about just desert' she was so happy! She had about 3/4 of it and did not want anymore . It gave me a pause, am I raising an over eater? I mean first she eats her entire meal (whether she is hungry for it or not, remember ? This is pre requisite to getting the desert... And then ( since she 'earned' it, she will eat the entire desert... When it was no prize, given without condition, nothing earned.... She ate as long as it tasted good and she was hungry and stopped. Amazing.
What an intuitive Mom moment that was! I love it! I don't have kids, but I have to admit reading the chapter on raising Intuitive Eating Kids scared me a little, hearing that you can just set food choices out for your kids and they'll eat what they need to thrive. Maybe not very balanced in one meal, but more so over the day, and even more so over the course of many days. I know it must be true, but we're so ingrained to believe we must control everything, it's hard to accept.

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Wow, that's thought provoking stuff, thanks.

I remember huge battles over food when I was little because I hated eating, hated feeling full, it affected me for years and made it harder to control my weight as I got older because I always feel like I'm being really unhealthy if I limit my food intake.

Even now, you can figure my age from my screenname, I feel like I'm being somehow 'bad' by not eating at every opportunity, and to be brutally honest I have no concept of intuitive eating for myself, because it never felt like something within my control, even though it is of course.

I wonder whether the reason restrictive diets appeal to so many of us, and then we feel an equally desperate compulsion to cheat and break the rules, is that deep-seated feeling that we're wrong, wasteful, unloveable etc if we make our own food choices?

That food is a battle between the 'good' us who eats what she's told, and the natural us who feels suffocated and like 'love' and approval is on the line over those rules?

you've given me something to think about today, so thank you.
I hate to think this could be true, but I think you may be onto something here. Dieting rules are comforting at first, because I haven't trusted myself to eat the right things in the right amounts. But then, it becomes just restriction and is very uncomfortable. And then I think I deserve those bad feelings because I can't be trusted. Awful, awful circle.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:28 AM   #158
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Really great discussion guys! Fantastic insights emijan, I really like how you handled the dessert thing.

I like your point Carol "but we're so ingrained to believe we must control everything, it's hard to accept." I too don't have children, but thinking about this I so clearly see, like it's as true as oxygen to breath, we all accept the absolute "truth" that children must be forced to eat this or that by adults or they might keel over or not grow or something. This doesn't take away the parents responsibility to provide healthy food and be a good example to their children in healthy eating habits, but balance is also recognizing when it's ok to just let the kid have dessert instead of forcing them to eat the nutritionally questionable mac and cheese like emijan did. Really thought provoking stuff!

Tara like you I'm exploring the whole morality based thinking of food and fat as "good" and "bad." J.K. Rowling said: "I mean, is ‘fat’ really the worst thing a human being can be? Is ‘fat’ worse than ‘vindictive’, ‘jealous’, ‘shallow’, ‘vain’, ‘boring’ or ‘cruel’? Not to me..." I love this quote and I think if we can accept that our morality, value and character are not quantified by the food on our plates or the mass of our bodies we can let go of the grip diet and food and body image has on us.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:51 AM   #159
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This doesn't take away the parents responsibility to provide healthy food and be a good example to their children in healthy eating habits,
So true: I stopped LC back in 2008 when I realized that I am labeling food and me 'good' and 'bad' based on the food I ate and realized that raising girls who will have peace with food is hard enough (TV ads for diets, food and pictures of anorexic models) [I did go back to LC later ]


I wanted to share something I wrote in my journal here on LCF a few days ago:

A praise report: Emily has been doing IE (without knowing the name...just eating when hungry and stopping when full.....) I have noticed that even when I make something she likes for dinner or offer to make her something she says 'no thank you I am not hungry'...yesterday she tried on jeans that were too small and I insisted she saves....she is going on a mission trip to Mexico and needs pants...and they all fit! So proud of her...we talked about how she and Jenny should never diet.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:18 AM   #160
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That's really great emijan. Now I'm off to find your journal.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:43 AM   #161
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That's really great emijan. Now I'm off to find your journal.
it is sporadic and uninspiring...
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:13 PM   #162
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That's fantastic emijan! I am so amazed, delighted and a little jealous for the little girl that I was so long ago, that you are giving your girls such a precious gift! It takes so much hard work and humility to change your own thinking and implement it with your children.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:48 PM   #163
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Another victorious moment....oh, I wanted to make 2 grilled cheese sandwiches....my weakness (as are all breads).....but at the last moment I made one.....oh, I know weight loss will come (meaning ...FASTER...) but in the mean time I feel normal or at least more normal....
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:58 PM   #164
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Another victorious moment....oh, I wanted to make 2 grilled cheese sandwiches....my weakness (as are all breads).....but at the last moment I made one.....oh, I know weight loss will come (meaning ...FASTER...) but in the mean time I feel normal or at least more normal....
Good for you!! That's how we win the battle, one small decision at a time, not a crazy restrictive diet plan!!
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:07 PM   #165
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Tara like you I'm exploring the whole morality based thinking of food and fat as "good" and "bad."
Yeah, the crazy thing is it wasn't even types of food for me, just the entire concept from begining to end of actually choosing what I can eat without recourse to any external rule book.

the low-fat dogma kicked in just as I was approaching adult independence and replaced my family nagging me to eat things I didn't want, so suddenely if you wanted to be a good responsible person you ate in a certain way, things I didn't like (I always loved butter for example), then after that had what we might as well say was predictable effects of making me gain some weight, I continuously low-level dietd to stay the way I wanted.

Put whatever I want on my plate, whenever I want it, leave some, go back for seconds if I want? That's more bizarre to me than flying! I've seen that done in movies, Superman, Harry Potter etc, and yet have NO role model for actually eating what I want when I want without a nagging chorus of 'shoulds/should not's' in there.

Sorry to ramble but even though I'm good with my current WOE (which kind of does let me have whatever I want coz it's only time restricted) this thread and especially Emijan's post above has been an eye-opener to me how deep those rules and b*****it ideas run, that when it comes to food I must trust everuone except myself.
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:02 PM   #166
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Good for you!! That's how we win the battle, one small decision at a time, not a crazy restrictive diet plan!!
Oh, so true!
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:12 PM   #167
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Sorry to ramble but even though I'm good with my current WOE (which kind of does let me have whatever I want coz it's only time restricted) this thread and especially Emijan's post above has been an eye-opener to me how deep those rules and b*****it ideas run, that when it comes to food I must trust everuone except myself.
Tara, I read the book 'weigh down' in 2007. I knew in my heart that this is the way to go but I was so afraid of hunger......it took me till now to be able to 'get' it.
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:31 PM   #168
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I wanted to share something : been reading others journals the last couple of days..:In regards to IE vs reward eating etc. years ago when my daughter was 9 or 10 we were at a nice restaurant ....now this kid has always been a sweets lover and would always ask 'can I have dessert'? ( we rarely had desert at home since I do not care for sweets and neve think of making it). I was about to say my usual 'if you are still hungry when you finish your meal' but thought ' she always IS hungry for desert' and 'what is the great nutritional value in the Mac and cheese she is about to order (not to mention paying $5 for $0.25 worth of Mac and cheese ) so I said 'how about just desert' she was so happy! She had about 3/4 of it and did not want anymore . It gave me a pause, am I raising an over eater? I mean first she eats her entire meal (whether she is hungry for it or not, remember ? This is pre requisite to getting the desert... And then ( since she 'earned' it, she will eat the entire desert... When it was no prize, given without condition, nothing earned.... She ate as long as it tasted good and she was hungry and stopped. Amazing.
In her book "I've Tried It All! Now What?!" Susanna Dee suggests always eating what you want most FIRST. If that means ordering dessert at the beginning of the meal, then that's what you should do.

You can find her book at donut-whisperer-2 - don't try to order on Amazon because for some strange reason the price is higher there. I think someone bought up a bunch of copies of her book and is selling it there, because at one time you could order in bulk for a reduced price from her website. I just checked Amazon and now it's $26 but at one time it was twice that much. You can get it on her website for $14.95.
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:47 PM   #169
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In her book "I've Tried It All! Now What?!" Susanna Dee suggests always eating what you want most FIRST. If that means ordering dessert at the beginning of the meal, then that's what you should do.

You can find her book at donut-whisperer-2 - don't try to order on Amazon because for some strange reason the price is higher there. I think someone bought up a bunch of copies of her book and is selling it there, because at one time you could order in bulk for a reduced price from her website. I just checked Amazon and now it's $26 but at one time it was twice that much. You can get it on her website for $14.95.
Wish it was available on Kindle. Can you tell us a little more about her methods and suggestions?

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Old 06-28-2014, 06:51 PM   #170
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what is HDE?
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:34 PM   #171
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HDE is hunger directed eating...it comes from the Spinardi book.
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:52 PM   #172
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HDE is hunger directed eating...it comes from the Spinardi book.
Thanks.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:59 PM   #173
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Anybody still on this WOE? I lost the first 10 pounds seemingly without effort. But I guess my eyes are getting the best of me now. I use my eyes to put an "acceptable" amount of food on the plate and since my eyes OK'd it, I plow through it and clean my plate without much thought. My stomach can't count. It doesn't know if I ate 25 cookies or 2. All it knows is that it had cookies and now it's full. I need to focus on what my stomach needs, not what my eyes approve of. I guess I know where I'm going wrong, but it's still frustrating to gain back a few lbs.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:01 PM   #174
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I'm still doing it jmc. I lost a few pounds in May, gained them back in June (birthday indulgences) July 7th I got serious about it again, started exercising and now I'm heading back down.

I actually try not to clear my plate, leaving something behind (even a bite) is a victory. One of the secrets I also learned, here I think, is pay attention to how food tastes. When your last bite doesn't taste as good as your first, your physical need has stopped, so stop eating.

Another thing I try to do is never eat if I'm not physically hungry. Which means if I have cookies, etc. It needs to be my meal. I'm rarely honestly hungry between meals. I can eat for sure and it's a struggle sometimes when coworkers bring in goodies, but I tell myself that's my sacrifice for being able to eat whatever I want at the next meal.

It may not be the fastest weight loss plan I’ve ever done, and as hard as it is to be focused on what and when you eat and how you feel all the time, it’s heaven compared to any diet.
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:53 AM   #175
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Anybody still on this WOE?
I am. I took a 5-week break and did JUDDD rotations to lose a few pounds a little more quickly, and now I'm back to it. You can follow along with me in my journal.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:17 AM   #176
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I am doing it...I have decided that this is how I should eat so no going back. I am still re-learning to eat the way I did before gluttony took over....One of the things I am concentrating on is figuring out what I am hungry for....if I want a nectarine (which is healthy for me so I kinda not want it) and eat toast with cheese and tomato (a favorite but higher calories) the latter won't be tasting as good because that is not what my body is hungry for.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:35 AM   #177
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I am relatively new here and I wish this thread was still active. I plan on going back to the beginning and reading it all the way through. There seem to be a lot of books and other information that I would be interested in.

Ernijan, I like your WOE: IE-the way God planned it. I too believe that this is the way our bodies are supposed to work. The availability of food has changed us into eating machines.

I am diabetic, so I have to do low carb for my blood sugar, but it works with IE. I'm just not sure that I know what IE actually is. I had to leave the IE thread on another forum because I and another poster were starting to get on each other's nerves because of our difference of opinions. I believe that your body wants nutrition. She said if her body wants cake she eats cake. I disagreed that wanting cake was not her body talking but her head, as there is no nutrition in cake. I didn't say she shouldn't eat cake if she wants it, just that it was not her body requiring it.

In the past year I read Joel Fuhrman's The End of Diabetes. He is really big of vegetables. Not quite vegan, as he does include small amounts of protein, but the way he explains what vegetables do for the body really got me eating lots and lots of vegetables, every day. After a while, I found that I had no interest in sweets. DH eats a lot of baked goods, and I can look at them and not be the least bit tempted, but if I go a day or two without a lot of vegetables I find myself craving brussels sprouts and carrots, my favorite combination. I feel that having all these nutrients in my body has stopped my craving for sweets. And that's a good thing, right? How many dieters would love to be able to walk past sweets and not feel drawn to them?

I agree that if you want a burger, eat a burger, and you will have satisfied your hunger. I just don't feel the same way about sweets and other foods that are just empty calories. I realize that naturally thin people don't think of foods as bad or good. They just eat when they are hungry and eat what they want. They leave food on their plate, something I need to learn how to do. If they happen to overeat, they just don't eat until they are hungry again. If that means skipping a meal, then they skip. My DH eats like this and it amazes me. I want to be able to do this. Last night I had a delicious meal of pork and sauerkraut. Unfortunately, I went back for seconds, and then felt overstuffed the rest of the evening. That ruined the enjoyability of the meal. I should have just wrapped up the leftovers for lunch today.

I am retired, so I can eat when I want to, when I get hungry. But people who work do not have that luxury. If they don't eat breakfast before going to work, they probably will get too hungry before lunch. If they eat breakfast, they might not be hungry at lunch time, but have to eat anyway, or they won't make it until they get home for dinner. I think this is how we started eating according to the clock. It probably actually goes back to when we were in school. In high school, I didn't eat breakfast, but ate the lunch I brought from home during study hall. Then at lunch time I didn't eat. The school didn't allow this...I just didn't get caught. I think the key is to eat 3 meals, but it's the size of the meal that matters. Breakfast should be just enough to hold you til lunch time, and lunch should be enough to stretch you until dinner. But we don't do that. We usually just eat whatever is available at the time.

Here I am, rattling on and on. Does anyone else want to discuss this?
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:52 AM   #178
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PAC, I agree with some of what you're saying, but I also agree that if you want cake, you should eat cake. I'm one who doesn't believe in "good" foods or "bad" foods, and I don't think there's such a thing as empty calories.

However, if cake makes you feel badly, then why eat it?

My biggest problem trying to IE is the clock. I work and can't eat whenever I get hungry. I've tried and it's just too difficult. Plus, we like to have dinner as a family, so I need to eat when dinner is on the table. My workaround has actually been to eat very light during the day so that I make sure I'm good and hungry at dinner time. I still eat breakfast before work, and lunch at my scheduled time, but only enough to barely satisfy.

I also have a hard time being completely "present" when I eat. I'm working on that.

It's not perfect IE, but it works (when I work it).

Best of luck.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:07 AM   #179
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Hi PACarolsue,
A group of us at work when out for lunch and as conversation usually does with us, we ended up talking about who was on what diet. I started talking about IE that I have been doing and enjoying for the last couple months. A naturally slim gal, who has never dieted, talked about how she interprets her cravings. If she wants a piece of cake, is it the dairy in the frosting her body really wants, grains in the cake, etc. and tries to feed her cravings more nutritionally. I don’t think she is necessarily trying to deny herself sweets, just looks at it as “what nutrition does my body really want?” Since then I’ve used that to help me make better choices. Don’t get me wrong if I really want a piece of cake I’ll have it and enjoy every crumb. But I feel much better and stay in much better control making healthier choices for the most part. I’m a little older too, so health is as important if not more so then weight loss at this stage of the game for me.

I do work and have a DH that lives by the three meal a day mantra so I have adapted my IE to that for the most part and you’re right with that it’s more about portion sizes and learning to leave food behind. At first DH was appalled “is that all you’re going to eat?” But who can argue with “I’ve had enough, if I want more later, I’ll have it”?
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:23 PM   #180
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I agree with you PACarolsue, that wanting to eat sugary sweets with very little nutritional value is more about head hunger than body hunger. Although we certainly can trick our bodies into thinking it needs sugar for energy, or to avoid the sugar crash cycle. But I also believe that if we don't ever feed our head hunger cravings, it's possible for that to backfire and make the deprivation eventually cause us to go crazy trying to fulfill those needs. I've seen it in myself. Sometimes you just want a dessert, or a salty crunchy snack. If we can honor that and stay in control, then great! And as CC has experienced, if you allow yourself to go through the process of allowing yourself whatever you want, those types of foods eventually lose their fascination. That's what I'm working toward.

I actually have been having ice cream so often lately that I'm beginning to lose interest in it a bit. And I'm glad, because I can really overindulge in it. Maybe I really did need to just get it out of my system.
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