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Old 08-20-2013, 10:00 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by tobelowcarber View Post
The only thing you can drink in 2 hr of flavorless window is water. You can't even brush you teeth in that window because of the flavor in toothpaste.
This is why I still haven't tried it. I'm a sipper. I sip all day and I hate plain water. In the evening wouldn't be as bad, but during the day....
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #62
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I was worried about this too. Ouizoid said some people take a dose only once or twice for this reason. Upon waking or at bedtime or both to kill one hour on each side.

Ouizoid was part of the test group for the diet and has met Seth Roberts.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:51 AM   #63
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That's a great idea!
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:57 AM   #64
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Off topic, but I have to report this somewhere. I had my first session of cold therapy applying large block bottles of ice last night. Oh my GOSH I have this buzz on of energy today it is incredible. It is like that energetic feeling from the MCT oil but triple the effect.

I think it really is a huge leptin hack. I think I am burning fat. I can't remember ever feeling like this before.

I have heard that those crazy polar bear club people get a high from the cold plunges. I am starting to "get" it.

Second thread in my auto signature if interested.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:00 AM   #65
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That's awesome, KT. You are an energizer bunny today
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:02 PM   #66
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That's great about the ice, KT. I can't stand the cold on my face, but I put the ice packs on my belly last night and it felt so good to me. Weird, right?
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
I was worried about this too. Ouizoid said some people take a dose only once or twice for this reason. Upon waking or at bedtime or both to kill one hour on each side.

Ouizoid was part of the test group for the diet and has met Seth Roberts.
I take my oil first thing in the morning before even waking. I get up to go to the bathroom and get my first TBL then. I usually go back to bed for a bit before getting up for the day. Well, that was summer. Today was back to school so I don't know if it will continue had to get up earlier than I had been today. But I am also doing the hcg so I cannot take any oil at all. I am out of the experiment for me for a few weeks. But I will return.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #68
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Cool! I feel the same way. Cold water is unpleasant, but I am so used to packing my arm, back, neck, and ankle in ice or cold packs anyway for pain and inflammation that this was no big deal.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:07 PM   #69
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I have read that some people chase the oil with sugar water. Some use sugar water as the flavorless calories. Some mix the two It does work.

This is crazy because sugar is bad for your health. Seth Roberts no longer recommends it. Some ways of hacking the system are not good for you.

There is even a guy on the Seth Roberts forum that lost a lot of weight drinking coke nose-clipped. Flavor associations are only made through the sense of smell per Seth.
SUGAR WATER!!!! What kind of blasphemy is this? And sugar water most certainly IS flavored. It's flavored to be sweet, and sweet is a taste/addiction that caused many of us to be in need of a weight loss site in the first place, am I right? I'm not trying to be hostile, the tone of my post is supposed to be teasing, but SUGAR WATER, really???? I believe you as far as oil can have an appetite suppressing effect. I've read too many posts about BPC and fat bombs. But to chase it with sugar water? I'd rather just drink a regular soda. The idea of oil followed by sugar just makes my head spin.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:26 PM   #70
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SUGAR WATER!!!! What kind of blasphemy is this? And sugar water most certainly IS flavored. It's flavored to be sweet, and sweet is a taste/addiction that caused many of us to be in need of a weight loss site in the first place, am I right? I'm not trying to be hostile, the tone of my post is supposed to be teasing, but SUGAR WATER, really???? I believe you as far as oil can have an appetite suppressing effect. I've read too many posts about BPC and fat bombs. But to chase it with sugar water? I'd rather just drink a regular soda. The idea of oil followed by sugar just makes my head spin.
Well, I think the disconnect here is that shangri-la isn't necessarily for low carbers. The oil part works nicely w low carb, but I imagine that most people who've done it are eating more traditional SAD type foods. There apparently was a guy who lost a ton of weight drinking his flavorless calories as coke w a nose clip on.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:34 PM   #71
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SUGAR WATER!!!! What kind of blasphemy is this? And sugar water most certainly IS flavored. It's flavored to be sweet, and sweet is a taste/addiction that caused many of us to be in need of a weight loss site in the first place, am I right? I'm not trying to be hostile, the tone of my post is supposed to be teasing, but SUGAR WATER, really???? I believe you as far as oil can have an appetite suppressing effect. I've read too many posts about BPC and fat bombs. But to chase it with sugar water? I'd rather just drink a regular soda. The idea of oil followed by sugar just makes my head spin.
I know, it is crazy. I think people doing that could end up with health problems. Seth explains sugar is sensed by the tongue, not the nose. apparently it passes the sniff test.

this whole thing is based on the brain (hunger central and metabolism command center) throttling everything based on what it picks up on with flavors, which is only done through the nose. It is like when you have a cold and everything is off. You can taste sweet and salty, but you feel that you can't "taste" anything.

Certain oils have no scent/flavor, as long as you are not a super taste (super sniffer).

It sounds crazy, but good grief, it works.

Last edited by Key Tones; 08-20-2013 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:45 PM   #72
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Just popping in to say that if it is "desperate' to take oil twice per day then count me as one heck of a sold out desperate person.

I am dropping weight when I have changed nothing else. I haven't dropped calories and I eat lots of "good for me" food. It is working. I just don't understand how it works, but it is a keeper.

Jaminet is always saying that MCT oil is an excellent tool. Now, I believe I know why he says this.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:13 PM   #73
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Hi Sunday!

MCT oil is the stuff!!!
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:28 PM   #74
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Are we ok if we taste the salt (with plugged nose)?
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:55 AM   #75
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MCT oil does decrease appetite, I use it in salad dressing. Has anyone had success with this approach long term? Does it work beyond a couple of weeks. Because I find with changes in diet, after a couple of weeks, it doesn't really have the same effect anymore once the body adjusts to it.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:19 AM   #76
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I think the 'desperate' comments are made due to a misunderstanding.
I think some people were thinking that all you eat during the day is the oil.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:07 AM   #77
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Are we ok if we taste the salt (with plugged nose)?
I am not sure; however, another approach I have seen on Seth's forum is people nose clipping all of their food. They would taste the salt. They say this works although one lady said her family refuses to eat with her.

That is seriously not doable for me!
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:17 AM   #78
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MCT oil does decrease appetite, I use it in salad dressing. Has anyone had success with this approach long term? Does it work beyond a couple of weeks. Because I find with changes in diet, after a couple of weeks, it doesn't really have the same effect anymore once the body adjusts to it.
I've seen people in Seth's forum that seem to be long termers. Some returning after a hiatus and lose weight again.

Ouizoid (on our board) reports she still uses it on and off. It came out on 2007, but I think she was in it before he book came out.

I am still off of the coffee and sweeteners. This is a world record for me. I have four or five chocolate bars 85% that I needed at first to come off the coffee but I have forgotten about them. This is not like me at all

It does seem to help break free of addictive food as well as control appetite.

I'm not doing anything weird with the diet either. Eggs, potatoes, meats, seafood, soups, vegetables, one Brazil nut per day, diluted keifer, grapefruit juice.

I'm doing a moderate carb paleo diet w dairy and safe starches.

I hope I never have to do the potato hack or a protein sparing modified fast again.

Last edited by Key Tones; 08-21-2013 at 07:31 AM..
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:23 AM   #79
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Punkin, Most of the long term SLD folks were specifically wanting to lose a moderate to larger amount of weight. I simply began doing this recently to shake a small gain that creeped on unexpectedly. Worked very fast. So personally, I will only use this as a great assist and not long term. I see this as a tool to shed the weight that comes on for no rhyme or reason and doesn't want to budge. Please go to *** forum and read their long thread about the successes. Many on Seth's forum have lost over 50 lbs and a few 100 lbs and from what I gather while in maintenance, they are not staying on oil. If you have time to read, Morex has kept a great detailed log of losing 75 lbs in 5 months.

emel, I only wanted to re-state what KeyTones mentioned that this plan works well with all WOEs. I really don't know if you would get the same effect if you overdid the oil? So, I would not recommend to do more than 3 tbsp. daily. I am fasting daily and eating the PHD and no problem adding MCTs. I wouldn't change my plan now for anything, so this was sort of an experiment for me to see if it works and could be used sporadically for an assist. I had concerns that my calories would be too low, but now that I have tried it, would not be worried.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:26 AM   #80
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MCT oil does decrease appetite, I use it in salad dressing. Has anyone had success with this approach long term? Does it work beyond a couple of weeks. Because I find with changes in diet, after a couple of weeks, it doesn't really have the same effect anymore once the body adjusts to it.


I find this as well, also the more weight I lose the hungrier I get
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:09 PM   #81
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The reason I used the term "desperate" is that this is not something I would chose to do unless I was unable to lose by eating healthy foods. If I was stalled & could not figure out why I might consider it but if I were losing fine I would not consider it.

I did not use the term because I do not understand the plan.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:08 AM   #82
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Does taking the MCT oil in capsule form do the same thing as just drinking the oil? I am a super taster and texture person and jut don't think I could drink oil. Makes me gag just thinking about it. I am open to trying MCT oil in the capsule if it will help.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #83
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I've read some anecdotal comments about capsules. They are expensive and I don't know the doses but I have read people chatting about taking 24 per day.

My daughter is trying it, however.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #84
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I lost weight well, so I don't understand why the release of insulin (which occurs with any food we eat) inhibits weight loss.
Bernstein's book, Diabetes Solution, might answer this question for you. I found an explanation online but the constant influx of insulin for a Type 2 when eating small meals or every couple of hours is actually a problem. I can't remember the specifics offhand, but at the time I read his book, I made it a point to go from mini-meals/snacks every 3 hours to eating only 3 meals and nothing in between. I have a vague recollection that it has something to do with reversing insulin resistance, where the constant up and down as insulin is released for every one of these meals is what keeps the insulin resistance going...or contributes to the development of it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:35 AM   #85
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Did I misunderstand? I thought, along with the MCT oil (and nose clips to keep from tasting) that it was necessary to do this with all of your food?
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:47 AM   #86
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Bernstein's book, Diabetes Solution, might answer this question for you. I found an explanation online but the constant influx of insulin for a Type 2 when eating small meals or every couple of hours is actually a problem. I can't remember the specifics offhand, but at the time I read his book, I made it a point to go from mini-meals/snacks every 3 hours to eating only 3 meals and nothing in between. I have a vague recollection that it has something to do with reversing insulin resistance, where the constant up and down as insulin is released for every one of these meals is what keeps the insulin resistance going...or contributes to the development of it.
This is really interesting bc my insulin use has gone down so much while IF'ing. A lot of the time, if I've strictly adhered to it for a while, I don't need any insulin at all with my main meal. I used to have to do a shocking amount of insulin just to cover protein.

I find that my blood sugar is so much more stable bc I'm not doing any inputs most of the time. When I'm eating the normal meals and snacks day, omg, it's just UP-DOWN-UP-DOWN-UP-DOWN. It's awful and I'm lucky if my blood sugar is approaching normal by the time I eat again, even if it's just three meals and no snacks.

Leo, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but if it's only pure fat that you're consuming, there shouldn't be an insulin release, in theory at least.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:51 AM   #87
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I do not understand this:

This could very well be taking the place of snacking that is causing someone to release insulin all day long, preventing weight loss.

I lost my final 100 lbs following JUDDD, and my DDs were about 370 calories. Unlike many people, I didn't eat once a day, but I felt best eating 50 to 70 cal 'snacks' throughout the day--all high protein. I ate similarly on my higher-calorie UDs with snacks of about 100-150 cal.

I lost weight well, so I don't understand why the release of insulin (which occurs with any food we eat) inhibits weight loss.

My understanding is that many of us (myself included) can overproduce insulin in response to eating carbs. It's that insulin 'spike' that rapidly lowers blood sugar and causes hunger soon after eating--leading to overeating. It's the overeating that inhibits weight loss and/or causes us to gain weight.

I certainly had no problems losing (and maintaining my loss) snacking throughout the day rather than eating substantial meals. In fact, for someone as sensitive to carbs as I am, snacks may work better for weight loss because so little insulin is released each time I eat.

I think the spike followed by overeating is only a small part of the problem.

As I understand it, insulin is the master fat storage hormone. When insulin levels are high, your fat cells are inaccessible . You cannot burn stored fat. So someone with a lot of extra fat, still gets signals that they are starving, and have no energy, because there is no fuel being allocated to energy needs, it's getting shuttled directly to fat storage.

Most people can lose weight on a low cal diet, albeit less weight, and with more hunger than a LC diet. In that case, it is more of a calories in- out equation and more critical to keep your calories low to force your body into submissionm(giving up some fat energy).
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:55 AM   #88
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Did I misunderstand? I thought, along with the MCT oil (and nose clips to keep from tasting) that it was necessary to do this with all of your food?
The basis of the diet is to take the oil. Some people also do food with nose clipped as an extra bonus or when they don't want to take the oil or when the oil is not effective. There is a lot of discussion about on SLD forum.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:25 AM   #89
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For the record, as you will see from my stats, I've lost close to 200 lbs--and have maintained that loss for the past 3 years. I did this while both post-menopausal and hypothyroid.

I never eat 'high fat.' I eat low carb, and for a long time, for medical reasons, I also ate low fat. Now my fat is at most 'moderate.' I eat when hungry, and there are days when I eat 6 times throughout the day, and other days when I might eat 2-3 times.

While I agree that CICO is simplistic, I watch my total calories and don't worry about my 'insulin.' Since I don't 'overeat' at any meal, and I eat VLC, whatever insulin my body releases for digestion is minimal, and I believe it actually helps keep my blood sugar level throughout the day. I am not diabetic.

I learned about the role insulin plays in weight loss/gain when I first read Atkins in 1972, and nothing published since then has changed the basic physiological process he explained so clearly. Limiting carbs is the key to avoid insulin 'spikes' that stimulate appetite and lead to overeating. Eating high carb made me morbidly obese before I knew this, and restricting carbs has resulted in my current situation of maintenance at goal.

I suspect that we can easily 'overthink' this matter of weight loss. If I'm operating in a caloric deficit, my body fat is never 'inaccessible' to my body. Using its fat stores to supply needed energy is a natural function of the body.

My criticism is of the statement that 'snacking' would prevent weight loss because of the constant presence of insulin. If I ate a hardboiled egg every two hours, my body would release insulin for digestion, but I would NOT experience the hunger that results from the insulin spike of eating a doughnut, for example.

I simply wanted to point out that some of us do just fine eating throughout the day. In the absence of any medical issue, it all depends on what one is eating and [I]how much[I]--not how often.

Last edited by Leo41; 08-23-2013 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:34 AM   #90
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I find these "extract pleasure from eating" diets so interesting (and I have no doubt that they are effective in the short term).

I hope it doesn't come to this for me, though. Hope no one's offended by that.
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