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Old 05-08-2013, 08:52 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
RE: Jaminet on pork - his note about the association between pork and liver cirrhosis is what scared me. Ground pork sounds the most dangerous for undercooking. It was in one of the series of the Trouble With Pork.

I remember thinking that Kwasniewski (Optimal Diet) advocates pork as the ideal food, and the Okinawans (some of the longest lived people on the planet) eat pork. This is confusing.

I don't think I want anything but bacon now and wouldn't trust someone else's cooking of it (afraid of sausage!).
Actually, Jaminet has several pork recipes. I believe he just wants us to be aware. In other words, my bacon every day 2x per day, is not happening any more.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:56 AM   #242
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Here is his conclusion... KT is right about the pork sausage, I would not touch it ever again. Sadly, I love it.

Quote:
Conclusion

There is a strong association between pork consumption and liver cirrhosis mortality, liver cancer, and multiple sclerosis.

It seems likely that the association, if it is real, is mediated by a pathogen. The most likely pathogen in the case of the liver diseases is hepatitis E virus. In MS, the pathogen remains unknown, but is likely to be a virus.

Hepatitis E virus is not destroyed by casual cooking, smoking, or curing. It appears that meat must reach temperatures of 70ºC (160ºF) before viruses are inactivated; and it is possible that meat must remain at that temperature for some time, perhaps as long as an hour. Rare or medium cooked pork could contain active viruses.

Hepatitis E viruses are most abundant in liver, intestine, and blood. Pork products containing these parts, such as sausage, may be best avoided.

Meat from parts of the pig with low viral titers, such as pork ribs or pork bellies, are likely to be safe to eat as long as they are well cooked. Be sure to wash the meat of all blood before cooking, and to cook thoroughly.

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Old 05-08-2013, 09:04 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
I was having problems because they were spoiling or sprouting. Now I bring them home and cook them right away and it seems to be working.
Me too! If I don't do it that way, they sprout immediately. I'm wondering if they're hanging around the market too long and I need to get them where the 'turnover' is faster.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:26 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
Thanks, ladies!

I LOVE my corgi, Buttercup. She is the best!

I've seen a similar recipe made with bananas and egg only. I made some cream cheese + egg pancakes for my daughter last week (more like crepes) but unsurprisingly, they did not pass muster with her. Today I put protein powder in her yogurt. BUT the crepes were pretty good, I thought.
Buttercup is adorable. The BEST people have Corgi's!!

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Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
Loving the potato tips, too! I've been buying a five pound bag and calling it a race to the finish. Told my husband the other day it is too much pressure. I'm going to start buying fewer at a time, I think . . . just sure that's not as economical.
I know! You can get bargains in bigger bags, but if you end up throwing them out, then I guess they aren't a bargain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
RE: Jaminet on pork - his note about the association between pork and liver cirrhosis is what scared me. Ground pork sounds the most dangerous for undercooking. It was in one of the series of the Trouble With Pork.

I remember thinking that Kwasniewski (Optimal Diet) advocates pork as the ideal food, and the Okinawans (some of the longest lived people on the planet) eat pork. This is confusing.

I don't think I want anything but bacon now and wouldn't trust someone else's cooking of it (afraid of sausage!).
I am very afraid to eat pork now. I used to eat it a lot. I still am eating bacon. Does it need to be cooked a certain way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Joyce, See there you go! Now I want a Corgi. Are they easy to train? Absolutely precious pic.

I have made the cream cheese pancakes and I felt like I was eating too much fat, although, they were so yummy. I am hoping that the pumpkin will help keep the fat lower, but also provide me some good nutrition. I will let you all know, because it is going to be on my menu tomorrow.

Today's menu~
Break - 1 kombucha, 3 egg yolks in CO, 1 oz of liver
Lunch - Avocado, tomato, salsa baked in side portabello mushroom w/ parmesan sprinkled on top.
Dinner - 3 sardines, Yukon Gold, BB, saurkraut
Dessert - 1 oz Dark chocolate Bar 85%

Total Cals - 1078
62/22/16

supps - 3 tbs RS, Triphala, Turmeric

I think the triphala is the reason that I am quite detoxed. I still having very in depth dreams, sleeping well, waking up at 6 feeling like I could sleep about one more hour. Plenty of energy during day.
I can see why I am not losing weight when I look at your menus. It looks very healthy. Did you stop taking pterostilbene? Or did you just not list all your supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Me too! If I don't do it that way, they sprout immediately. I'm wondering if they're hanging around the market too long and I need to get them where the 'turnover' is faster.
I get mine at Sprouts!! And the taters do sprout. The turnover there is fast and furious so I don't think they are hanging around the market at my store.

I do feel like I take a step forward and two steps backwards, but I am trying... I fermented a batch of veges and then I heard Paul's blog talk about it where he said not to ferment the more sugary veges. He does daikon radishes and cabbage. I fermented 4 large mason jars of baby carrots. Okay, so those are very sugary veges! Well I am eating them any way, and then I guess I will go back to using cabbage.

I tried to develop liking the 99% chocolate after Nancy (I think) talked about it. I just can't get myself to enjoy it and it doesn't have that lovely mouth feel. I was taking a 85% bar, mixing it with coconut oil, artificial sweetener, and pistachios for awhile and loving that, but now I am trying to cut back on the nuts. I have way more control if I take the chocolate in the form of dark cocoa. I like to mix that with a chai blend and coconut milk and turmeric and drink it hot. I can't eat one ounce of chocolate like Sunday does! Maybe someday...
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:28 AM   #245
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y'know, there is plenty of info out there on cooking taters and leaving them out on the counter til you eat them. They don't spoil. I am pretty sure Richard Nikoley wrote about that. I usually keep em in the fridge, because my understanding is that the cold resistant starch is the most important--anyhow, if you are going to eat them within a week or two, you can cook them and let them sit.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:44 AM   #246
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Bev, I am only reducing my cals M-F, Sat and Sun will be my free days (anything goes). I really don't do lower fasting days (like JUDDD) anymore due to my 16 hour daily fast. Plus, I am trying to follow my Dr's orders for a while.

I have pretty much made up my mind that the daily fast is all I can handle if I eat closely within the PHD perimeters. It seems that once I try to do very low cals ADF, I start to eat bad stuff on the UP days. Which negates the whole purpose of my PHD life. I know this sounds odd! The tater hack worked wonders for me, but seemingly, I discovered quite fast that doing that EOD would end up causing me to go bonkers on the alternate days. I am not sure what to think of this? Psychological? Probably, but I must do what I gots to do.

My trial is basically to see if I can enjoy tempering my week days but also get in only PHD nutritious and good quality food during the week and then let myself have more freedom PHDwise and possibly more treats (wine or nuts) on the weekend.

ETA: I think when I avg the cals over a week, I will be eating about 1250 a day which is a good weight loss mode for me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:48 AM   #247
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Bacon should be cooked well. Not burnt, but then not pink either. He does say that pork belly (which is bacon) is really the safest part of the pig besides the ribs.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:55 AM   #248
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Oh, and I am only giving up the ptero this week. I will add it back in next week. I still use it, I guess I just want to see how all of this RS does without any extra supps. or foods that could change the trial.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:56 AM   #249
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Wow, yes, that is what scared me--cirrhosis. I have seen what happens to someone who gets liver cirrhosis. Hepatic encephalopathy is a horrible thing that affects the brain; trust me--you don't want to know anything about it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:03 AM   #250
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KT, I don't know anyone but it sounds horrible.

I do know people with MS and it is very difficult as well...
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:24 AM   #251
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I went to Whole Foods yesterday and got some unmodified potato starch. Does it have to be eaten cold? I found a couple of interesting recipes using it in baking that I am going to try. I'm going to put it in a smoothie today.

Love all the discussions going on here.

A beautiful morning here so am off for some water exercises in the pool and listen to live Hawaiian music while I swim.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #252
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I just dissolve it in a little warm water and chug!
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #253
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I went to Whole Foods yesterday and got some unmodified potato starch. Does it have to be eaten cold? I found a couple of interesting recipes using it in baking that I am going to try. I'm going to put it in a smoothie today.

Love all the discussions going on here.

A beautiful morning here so am off for some water exercises in the pool and listen to live Hawaiian music while I swim.
Seabreezes, None of us know for certain what we are doing!
We are taking the potato starch purely as an experiment based on reading the research.

However, in my searches on the web, their is a site for weightloss and athletes specifically, that sells and promotes an energy drink that is based on "superstarch" and goes by the name of UCAN. Interestingly, Dr. Jeff Volek, who wrote the book, "The Art & Science of Low Carb Living" is one of the testimonials for this SuperStarch.

From UCAN site~
Quote:
SUPERSTARCH :: A REVOLUTIONARY CARB A CARB WITH NO CRASH
A CARB WITH NO INSULIN SPIKE
A CARB THAT ALLOWS FAT BURN
A CARB THAT DOESN'T BOTHER THE STOMACH

~Dr. Jeff Volek, PhD, Top Nutrition Kinesiologist, Leading Low-Carb Researcher
"It doesn't matter the age, athlete, or sport. Using SuperStarch to stabilize blood sugar and teach your body to burn more fat is the real deal for any athletic and health-conscious individual."
Here is his research paper...

http://generationucan.com/pdf/techni...innovation.pdf

This energy drink with the superstarch is very expensive. Thus the reason that we went with Bob's Red Mill. I think Ouiz is mixing with her smoothie which sounds much better than mixing with water. I have tried both ways and it absolutely does not have any taste, except for a tad taterish.

Please report back on your findings. We are enjoying learning on this new path of starchiness.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #254
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I just dissolve it in a little warm water and chug!
Thanks!
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #255
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I went to the UCAN site a few days ago, too. I'll read your linked article. Thanks, Sunday.

In reading about RS, I saw where beans had a lot of it. I know PHD is not high on beans, but I had several cans of them in the pantry. I have always liked 3 bean salad so made up a batch. I had a good helping with my dinner last night. I have had no hunger at all and I had a very low calorie day yesterday.

I didn't even think about a little "goodie" after dinner!
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:11 PM   #256
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Have you guys seen the latest controversy on bone broth? I was asleep at the switch on this. I thought bone broth was a good source of calcium? I think I'm looking at sardine/fish bone eating again.

Weston Price Foundation May 13 article

Bone Broth and Lead Contamination: A Very Flawed Study in Medical Hypotheses
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:17 PM   #257
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I went to the UCAN site a few days ago, too. I'll read your linked article. Thanks, Sunday.

In reading about RS, I saw where beans had a lot of it. I know PHD is not high on beans, but I had several cans of them in the pantry. I have always liked 3 bean salad so made up a batch. I had a good helping with my dinner last night. I have had no hunger at all and I had a very low calorie day yesterday.

I didn't even think about a little "goodie" after dinner!
I have read Jaminet say on his site that beans prepared properly can be eaten because they will be less toxic. Soaking overnight? From his site~

Quote:
Do not eat calorie-rich legumes. Peas and green beans are fine. Soy and peanuts should be absolutely excluded. Beans might be acceptable with suitable preparation, but we recommend avoiding them.
Quote:
Paul Jaminet
Dec 15, 2010

Hi Franco, Lentils have pretty high toxin levels so I would avoid them. If you do eat them, they should be soaked overnight before cooking and then thoroughly cooked (~30 minutes in boiling/simmering water). Traditional Indian cooking takes a long time and is probably pretty good at detoxifying these things. But I don't know about modern restaurants. Best, Paul
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #258
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KT,
Chris Kresser has a very good article researching and examining why this is truly not something to concern ourselves with. I have posted info from his article and I will go back and look it up.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:29 PM   #259
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Chris Kresser's article on bone broth toxicity...
He seems to think 2 to 3 cups per day is safe. I will look for Paul's response too.

Quote:
We are what we eat — and animals are no exception

It’s also plausible that the diet and living conditions of the animals we use to make bone broth will significantly influence the levels of lead their bones, and thus the broth, contain. Food, water, soil and dust are the largest sources of exposure to lead in farm animals. It appears that cereal grains contribute most to dietary exposure to lead. (8) Although I have not seen any comparative data on this, it’s thus reasonable to assume that pasture-raised chickens who eat a combination of forage and grain-based feed would have lower lead levels than conventionally-raised chickens that eat only grain-based feed.

I hope to have some data that will help answer this question in the coming weeks. Jessica Prentice, one of the worker-owners of the Three Stone Hearth community-supported kitchen in Berkeley, CA, has sent samples of their bone broth in to get tested for lead. They make their broth with pasture-raised chickens, so we’ll have at least one example of lead levels in pastured chicken broth to draw from.

That said, given that the levels of lead in the chicken broth tested in the Medical Hypotheses study were below the EPA established safe upper limit for drinking water, and given the protective effect of several nutrients abundant in Paleo/GAPS diets (and even in broth itself), it seems to me that it’s quite safe to consume 2-3 cups of bone broth per day. This is likely to be even more true if your broth is made from pasture-raised chickens.

I’ll continue to investigate this issue and report back if I learn anything that changes my opinion
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:35 PM   #260
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Wow, who knew farm animals even live long enough to accumlate lead.

It sounds like there may not be enough calcium in bone broth to bind the lead that might be there. These were small samples - it seems like it would vary by lead in the animals' environment. Hmm. I think eating something rich in calcium with the broth seems like a good idea.

I head heard about lead in organ meats, but not about lead in bones.

I haven't seen Jaminet say anything yet. It seems like he would.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:31 PM   #261
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RE: Jaminet on pork - his note about the association between pork and liver cirrhosis is what scared me. Ground pork sounds the most dangerous for undercooking. It was in one of the series of the Trouble With Pork.

I remember thinking that Kwasniewski (Optimal Diet) advocates pork as the ideal food, and the Okinawans (some of the longest lived people on the planet) eat pork. This is confusing.

I don't think I want anything but bacon now and wouldn't trust someone else's cooking of it (afraid of sausage!).

My DH, who is Okinawan, tells me they eat/ate pork ALL the time in Okinawa. I tell him "they have an Okinawan diet out". And he tells me that it is not how they eat in Okinawa. You would think fish and rice. But they eat pork and noodles. Not the "typical Japanese" food you hear about. I remember my first trip to Okinawa, there are noodle places all over the place. And I was glad to have pork! Just like home. And you are right--they are one of the longest lived people around. All by eating noodles, pork and rice! They smoke, drink and all the other vices too! They just didn't have the junk we do over there. No Twinkies, Hostess donuts or the like. They have good whole foods, from their own gardens no less!
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:58 PM   #262
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KT,

I just now went to the PHD FB group and asked one of the girls who has lost 120 lbs simply eating PHD her thoughts about broth, because she claims that the broth, yolks, and liver are the "holy trinity" of PHD, as well. Sarah was vegan before finding PHD and had gained weight whilst losing a lot of hair, she says that she did not see improvements until she began PHD and daily incorporating those 3 items. I do know that if you are worried, you could just make your broth with organically processed broth and Great Lakes gelatin combined. I have done this when I run out and it is much less time consuming and toxin free.

His plan is based on eating the most nutrients and striving for low toxicity, so most of the "don'ts and absolutes" deal with wheat, grains, vegetable oils & fructose. I have heard him address lead, but more on the basis of when we eliminate the above toxins, we will not have to worry about lead. I think this could also go back to what we discussed on "know the bones" that you use when making broth.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:00 PM   #263
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My DH, who is Okinawan, tells me they eat/ate pork ALL the time in Okinawa. I tell him "they have an Okinawan diet out". And he tells me that it is not how they eat in Okinawa. You would think fish and rice. But they eat pork and noodles. Not the "typical Japanese" food you hear about. I remember my first trip to Okinawa, there are noodle places all over the place. And I was glad to have pork! Just like home. And you are right--they are one of the longest lived people around. All by eating noodles, pork and rice! They smoke, drink and all the other vices too! They just didn't have the junk we do over there. No Twinkies, Hostess donuts or the like. They have good whole foods, from their own gardens no less!
Oh, how cool!!!

I heard that their diet has changed over time - some think the magic is the purple sweet potatoes and the various vegetables they eat that grow on the island. I read that they believe, however, it is the pork that gives them health.

I've read that they are relaxed, enjoy the sun, and avoid eating until full. Interesting that they don't get the western diseases, except for the younger generation that don't stick to the traditional diet.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:01 PM   #264
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They eat a lot of seaweed rich in minerals as well.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #265
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Oh, how cool!!!

I heard that their diet has changed over time - some think the magic is the purple sweet potatoes and the various vegetables they eat that grow on the island. I read that they believe, however, it is the pork that gives them health.

I've read that they are relaxed, enjoy the sun, and avoid eating until full. Interesting that they don't get the western diseases, except for the younger generation that don't stick to the traditional diet.
They have natto (nasty stuff!!) and a vegetable called oh, I forgot the name but it is a bitter melon. They say the more bitter the taste the better it is for you. DH will be home soon--I will ask him then what the veggie is called. I think "goya". His aunt (that is here in the states) grows them in her garden. We are "gifted" with it--DH is the only one who eats it! He says the best way to prepare it is to cook it with eggs. Takes some of the bitterness out. I have seen it listed in a supplement for balancing blood sugar. They do make the donuts--but they are Okinawan donuts. They are made from the yams you speak of above--the purple ones. Very yummy!! and not too sweet, just like my DH likes his food, not too sweet. DH's mom is retired, but stays very active (rides a bike) and travels all over the island with her dancing group, and of course gets sun. Hard to avoid that! When he calls over there on occasion, she is not there as she is out enjoying herself. My DH says it is about time, she has been at home for many many years taking care of everyone. Now is her time to enjoy herself. And she is

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Old 05-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #266
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KT,

I just now went to the PHD FB group and asked one of the girls who has lost 120 lbs simply eating PHD her thoughts about broth, because she claims that the broth, yolks, and liver are the "holy trinity" of PHD, as well. Sarah was vegan before finding PHD and had gained weight whilst losing a lot of hair, she says that she did not see improvements until she began PHD and daily incorporating those 3 items. I do know that if you are worried, you could just make your broth with organically processed broth and Great Lakes gelatin combined. I have done this when I run out and it is much less time consuming and toxin free.

His plan is based on eating the most nutrients and striving for low toxicity, so most of the "don'ts and absolutes" deal with wheat, grains, vegetable oils & fructose. I have heard him address lead, but more on the basis of when we eliminate the above toxins, we will not have to worry about lead. I think this could also go back to what we discussed on "know the bones" that you use when making broth.
Ah, yes, I have used the Great Lakes gelatin - I drop it into my smoothies. It does have more odor than the grocery store brand, so it isn't good for making gelatin desserts. I will probably stick to getting minerals from fish bones and seaweed (my favorite snack).

I haven't heard of many losing weight on PHD - it is good to hear. Did she make it to a normal weight?

I can't seem to lose weight anymore without doing something extreme. I was able to go from 312 to 225 on low carb but kept bouncing up to 235 then as high as 242 before giving up to use other methods. I was using the bone broth, egg yolks, and liver pills with no luck on Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet. I lost at first but then started gaining weight and it was real fat, not bloating, it was like concrete to get back off. I have heard the polish following this diet are skinny. I have no idea how.

I agree the vegan diet is awful!!! I have no idea how some people thrive on it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #267
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Isn't the Optimal Diet high in fat? I couldn't do that either! I tried NK while JUDDD.

I will update on Sunday if RS plus pure PHD helps any in breaking through on weight loss for me. I think Jaminet has it right about the ratios. 65% fat would be almost too much for weight loss, so he says to lower that keeping carbs/protein the same. I don't know about you, but I think weights may end up being my holy grail. I have recently taken up kettlebells and noticed that it seems to be helping. I have very slow weight loss on any plan. Although, I have been told my hypothyroid is the thorn in my side and that I possibly have aggravated the thyroid by fasting EOD. It seems that is what my doctor believes caused my over the top TSH levels.

We will see.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:38 PM   #268
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KT,
The whole reason for me trying PHD is because I wanted to rule out the foods that I eat as causing any issues with weight gain. Which to be honest, I have noticed that when I adhere to the PHD principles, I don't gain. So, I will take the slower losses and healthier eating.

I do believe the starch is key here. I was very low carb prior and combining the fasting and vlc stressed my thyroid. Have you had your thyroid tested?
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:17 PM   #269
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Yes, the Optimal Diet is high fat. I was attempting to use 50-60 protein (but starved unless I got 75), 50 carbs (in the form of potatoes, this is what he recommends), and the rest fat.

This is how I know NK would not work for me.

I have been tested for thyroid. I requested a full panel review at one point. It is all normal and always has been.

I spent a few days eating up and woke up warm. Rice really helped, but my fasting blood sugar shot up from low 80s to 99. It's like I can't win.

I am curious about Richard Nikoley's (Free the Animal - vulgar, I can't reommend it) raw milk diet. He was using the potato hack earlier this year. Now he has dropped over 15 pounds in 3 weeks using raw milk and kefir he made himself. I think he said just over two quarts per day (unlike the milk diet cure, which used 6 to 10 quarts per day). No way I am drinking raw milk though. I'm stirring potato starch into milk and kefir. I'll report back. This could be my new hack with this.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:33 PM   #270
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KT, I've been reading Richards raw milk entries. Very interesting! I thought about doing it, buti dont like milk.I have been adding potato starch to smoothies or drinking a shot and def feel more satiation, just like I did with potatoes.
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