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Old 05-18-2013, 01:07 PM   #481
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Thanks Cici! I really appreciate anyone who is doing this giving their results. I notice that when I do 3 tbsp I feel fine, not overly sated. So, I am going to try and stick with 3 tbsp on weekdays and be free of any RS on Sat/Sun. This should help stave off any late night/after dinner snacks.

I am happy to report that I found plantains today at Sprouts. I have no idea if I will like them. I don't eat bananas except for in banana bread or pudding.

Kristin, The best way to explain how it feels, is stuffed. I may be the only one that has this experience, but I will never want for anything while taking this regularly. I think this could be a magic tool for anyone who wants to fast completely for a period of time as in ADF/JUDDD. I can see how this would be a good addition with the ptero.
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #482
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Also, one of the best side effects is that I am regular as can be!

I am talking 3x per day. So, if my only benefit is better bowels, less hunger, and insulin sensitivity, glucose tolerance. I am happy.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Also, one of the best side effects is that I am regular as can be!

I am talking 3x per day. So, if my only benefit is better bowels, less hunger, and insulin sensitivity, glucose tolerance. I am happy.
I am up to 2TBL per day. Working my way up I do feel comfortably full. So I think this will work for me too! Only issue I am having is the gas. But I am also potato hacking so I am hoping that once I am off potatoes this will diminish greatly
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #484
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Hello, Ladies, how are you. I'm great, feeling good and very happy to be down below my lowest at 230.4. I was up to almost 235 a few days ago. I hope to stabilize soon. I need to get my supplies.

Although dinner this pm was terrific. DD made ribeye steak and steak fries. And I could eat both... Yea.
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Old 05-18-2013, 06:40 PM   #485
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Is it a tablespoon of potato starchy that everyone is taking?
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:06 AM   #486
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Pirate Jenny did/does corn starch. Would that work??
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:25 AM   #487
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Yes, Kristin! It would! I am going to go ask Tatertot how much of CS and how to take it? I think it would be exactly like Potato. Just mixed in cold water or smoothie. Or even V-8.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:19 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamatomany View Post
Is it a tablespoon of potato starchy that everyone is taking?
I am sorry, I missed this! Yes, we are taking 1 tbsp of Unmodified Potato Starch (Bob's Red Mills) mixed in water, smoothie, or anything cold. It is tasteless. Benefits were noted in the studies that I linked previously.

We are reporting back here to let everyone know how our trial is going. I hope you will let us know if you decided to try! I started out w/ 3 tbsp, but after reading elsewhere it is best to work up to 3 tbsp. So, for a few days 1 tbsp, then work up to 2, etc.

LIndy! WTG on the losses! Have a great Sunday!

Dawn, I even noticed fullness all day yesterday, (my day off) so you may want to take the weekend off. Just thinking here. I did bake & eat one GF brownie for 170 cals and it was not all that satisfying??? In fact, it sort of made my mouth feel strange. This is funny to me. Am I losing my sweet tooth simply by eating taters?

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Old 05-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #489
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Kristin,
I got the answer from Tatertot. He says not to use regular corn starch. I don't think that is what PJ is using? Hopefully she will come by and let us know. Just out of curiosity, doesn't Amazon ship to Canada?

Quote:
Author: tatertot
Comment:
Regular corn starch will not work at all! It is almost 0% RS.

Can't they order off Amazon in Canada? Any potato starch will do as long as it is unmodified. If it says 'pre-gelatinized' or 'modified' it won't work. If they find some and aren't sure, they can call the company that makes/supplies it. Another way to test it is to take a couple TBS and see if it spikes blood sugar, raw potato starch won't spike it at all--pregelatinized will spike it just like sugar.

Sun drying plantains is probably the best way! Flip them often to prevent black spots. If you can spread them out on a screen, even better.
Oh, and I asked him a question about how to make plaintain chips, so that is why he adds the "sun-drying" method to this answer.

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Old 05-19-2013, 12:37 PM   #490
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Yes, Kristin! It would! I am going to go ask Tatertot how much of CS and how to take it? I think it would be exactly like Potato. Just mixed in cold water or smoothie. Or even V-8.
Sunday, where is that chart of RS that you posted that told how much was in ea. T of RS versus the other kinds of starches. It seems that PS is soooo much more than corn starch. Can't fine it. Thanks

Up a pound.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:23 PM   #491
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Lindy here is the post...

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I am posting this because someone and I can't remember who said it was okay to heat up the starch. I am curious because according to Tatertot it is not a good idea. Here is his last post at "FTA".
Quote:
Based on the comments and questions from the first RS post, I did a little more digging and learned even more!

It was known as early as 1922 that certain starches resisted digestion, however, the term 'resistant starch' wasn't used until the 1980's when scientists studying starch digestion re-discovered the phenomenon. Since the 1980's hundreds of studies have been done on the actual mechanisms of RS digestion. Numerous papers and articles were written in the 80's and 90's, but the effects of RS seemed to fall on deaf ears. A resurgence of interest in RS in the early 2000's led to more studies and more articles. It was almost universally accepted by the scientific community that RS:

improved glucose regulation and better weight control,
reduced constipation, irritable bowel syndrome, and irritable bowel disease
reduced colon cancer risk,
and reduced blood cholesterol and triglycerides.

Resistant Starch contributes to health in two main ways: Its low Glycemic Load and its ability to enhance the microflora of the large intestine. As a carbohydrate with virtually zero impact on glucose, it stabilizes blood sugar and insulin, leading to lowered fasting blood glucose and insulin sensitivity. The ability of RS to resist digestion in the small intestine allows it to serve as a food source for the beneficial bacteria of the large intestine.

The concept of 'gut microflora' is difficult to grasp. Paul Jaminet wrote about it here. There are thousands of strains of bacteria, with populations in the trillions, living in the large intestines of humans. Some bacteria are good and some are bad. Scientists are just beginning to map out the thousands of strains and optimal populations.

Generally speaking, though, we can say there are two basic types of gut microbes that we can impact with resistant starch: Bifido-bacteria and Entero-bacteria.

Bifido-bacteria are the good kind. When you eat yogurt or sauerkraut for its probiotic strains of microbes, you are ingesting Bifido-bacteria. Bifido-bacteria comprise 90% of the gut bacteria of breast-fed babies, but only about 5% of adult gut flora. [emphasis added: what are they "eating?"]

Entero-bacteria are the bad kind. Though many are harmless, some of the more well-known species are Salmonella, E. Coli, and Enterobacter, which is closely related to obesity. Some of these type of bacteria can release endotoxins and cause 'toxic shock syndrome'. Many of these types of bacteria are also resistant to antibiotics, making them very difficult to deal with. Entero-bacteria can survive in a wide range of environments, even outside the body, and feed on many different food sources--sometimes resulting in extreme gaseous events.

Studies such as this one have demonstrated that ingesting approximately 33g/day of resistant starch lead to major changes in gut microflora in as little as one week and at 3 weeks, Bifido-bacteria strains had increased up to 10-fold from baseline levels to almost 20% of total gut flora!

An important finding of the above study was that the changes in gut flora varied between individuals, were reversible, and tightly associated with the consumption of RS. Gut flora changes that occurred during the 3 week study returned to baseline levels in as little as one week after stopping the consumption of RS.

Also of importance from this study, no significant changes occurred in fecal pH with RS and no significant detrimental effects were observed on bowel movement, stool consistency, or discomfort, indicating that RS at doses of 33 g per day are well tolerated in human subjects.

This study was done using RS from wheat and corn, mixed into wheat flour crackers. As wheat and corn aren't smiled upon in the Paleo world, I have come up with a way to mirror these results and using a 'safe starch' to gain all of the benefits described in this and other studies.

Studies show improvements with as little as 10g/day and as much as 50g/day. Over 60g/day, no additional benefits are noted, but not harmful. The most common dosage seems to be 30-40g/day.

Raw, unmodified potato (must not be pre-gelatinized!) provides nearly 8g --RS2 per tablespoon.
Green Banana/Plantain Flour is also a great source of RS at about --6g per TBS.
Hi-Maize cornstarch seems to be a very good source as well at about --5g per TBS.
Common cornstarch contains about -- 2.5g per TBS.
White and Brown rice flour contains about --1.5g. per TBS.
Arrowroot starch is a poor source with less than --1g per TBS.


Mix any combination of these starches to equal 10-40g/day in a smoothy, milk, kefir, yogurt, or just plain water. The sky is the limit, just be sure not to heat the starch! It must remain under 140 degrees to retain it's RS characteristics. It may also be best to mix and match the RS sources for maximum benefit as studies suggest different RS sources affect different strains of beneficial bacteria.
~~~

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Old 05-19-2013, 01:33 PM   #492
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Here is a story that made my day...

The amazing transformation of service wife who secretly lost 150lbs for soldier husbands return

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Old 05-19-2013, 01:46 PM   #493
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Interesting RS experiment - I had a birthday party to go to yesterday with some of the best treats ever - potluck style.

I had a bowl of sliced green banana in the morning in kefir with a heaping tablespoon of unmodified potato starch. I don't think this slowed me down at all - I ate a salad, a good plate of food and had small servings of three scrumptious desserts. I didn't have any sense of fullness unfortunately. The Hi Maize is better for that, for me, but I can't take the side effects. Perhaps I need to use more potato starch, not sure.

I had another bowl of the green banana/kefir/potato starch when I came home.

The interesting thing, and I am floored, is that my fasting blood sugar was only 82 this morning! That is pretty unusual. I have only seen a reading this low when on the potato hack.

I will see if this is repeatable without the party food, of course. All I can say here is wow.

I am not expecting weight loss - two birthday parties and I caved. It's a new week.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:49 PM   #494
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The only thing that really jumps out at me is that corn is so monsanto...gmo ville maj. not sure if the Bob Red Mill is GMO free and organic? In reading these posts, their seems to be alot of colon health benefits, and if I'm reading correctly, people are feeling fuller using this type of RS is that why so many are wanting to take this as part of the perfect health diet?
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:57 PM   #495
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Another quick question? I was thinking about doing an 8 hour eating window, and was wondering if coffee counted with ff creamer as part of the start of the 8 hours? Or if BPC would be better to start it as I know that is not recognized as a breaking a fast, just not sure if I can do BPC everyday
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:09 PM   #496
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Your coffee with the ff creamer should be OK. I use the unsweetened almond milk for very few calories with a splash of sugar free vanilla syrup. I know the Splenda is not PHD, but I don't use much and this is in a large Starbucks mug so quite a bit of coffee.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:10 PM   #497
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It looks like PD and HiMaize are high compared to others.

Measurement of resistant starch

The main step of any method to measure the content of RS in foods must first remove all of the digestible starch from the product using thermostable α-amylases (McCleary & Rossiter 2004). At present, the method of McCleary & Monaghan (2002 and AOAC method 2002.02) is considered the most reproducible and repeatable measurement of RS in starch and plant materials, but it has not been shown to analyse all RS as defined (Champ et al. 2003b). It is based on the principle of enzymic digestion and measures the portions of starch resistant to digestion at 37°C that are typically not quantitated due to the gelatisation at 100°C followed by digestion at 60°C. A commercial test kit is available and further details of the method are available at http://www.megazyme.com/booklets/KRSTAR.pdf. Table 2 lists the RS contents from a number of sample foods using this method and sourced from McCleary & Rossiter (2004).
Table 2. Resistant starch contents of a number of sample foods and commercially manufactured sources of resistant starch Food sample RS content (as assessed using AOAC 2002.02)

Source: Reprinted with kind permission from McCleary & Rossiter (2004). Copyright (2004) AOAC INTERNATIONAL.

Wheat bran  0.42
Rye crispbread  1.2
Kidney beans  5.3
Corn flakes  2.8
Native potato starch 78.1
Cooked and cooled potato starch  3.8
HYLON VII 53.7
Hi-maize 1043 45.7
NOVELOSE 240 46.9
ActiStar 58.0
CrystaLean 40.9

In the US and some other countries such as Japan and Australia, the Association of Official Analytical Chemists (AOAC) method 985.29 for Total Dietary Fibre Determination in Foods (Prosky et al. 1985; a gravimetric determination of dietary fibre quantity after enzymic digestion, mimicking human digestion) is commonly used to measure total dietary fibre (De Vries 2004). This method accounts for some (i.e. RS3, the retrograded portion, and RS2 as found in high amylose maize) RS present as part of the total dietary fibre value. Therefore, while it does measure some RS as part of the total dietary fibre figure, additional methods are needed for quantification of the other categories of RS (Champ et al. 2003b). Again, this highlights the need for a universally agreed definition and method of analysis for all of the components of Dietary fiber.

It does seem to be the best of all. I wonder how much RS is in cooled potatoes. Would PS be a substitute in case we don't have time to cook and cool potatoes. If raw PS is 78., how much is counted in 1 T.?
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #498
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Bob's Red Mill is just potatoes plain and simple, nothing else. The whole reason for using BRM is that it is organic and isn't processed. It is basically just the same as eating a raw potato. I don't have any experience with Hi-Maize, but if it works the same on blood glucose then you are still getting very good RS.
I made my first plantains and will eat them tomorrow instead of dosing w/ PS just so I can see if my body reacts differently.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #499
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KT, Fantastic results on blood glucose!
I am wondering if you had taken 2 tbsp prior to going, if you would have been more sated? I have been spreading out the PS, but will be taking 2 tbsp next time I have something like a party or special event.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #500
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Bob's Red Mill is just potatoes plain and simple, nothing else. The whole reason for using BRM is that it is organic and isn't processed. It is basically just the same as eating a raw potato. I don't have any experience with Hi-Maize, but if it works the same on blood glucose then you are still getting very good RS.
I made my first plantains and will eat them tomorrow instead of dosing w/ PS just so I can see if my body reacts differently.
My bad! Sorry, I didn't see the bottom part of your first post. That's why I sent the other. No matter, we're on the same page.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:20 PM   #501
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This is great information!
We have amazon in Canada, but it covers much narrower territory than yours. Books. No potato starch.
I'll keep looking.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:11 PM   #502
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Today went fine. Still don't have supplies. But am ok. Totals' for today are:
68% fat, 19% carbs, 13 protein. 1206 calories, 90 g fat, 57 carb, 51 protein.
I'll get straightened out one of these days. Still need to shop. Night, ladies.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:49 AM   #503
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Lindy, You are doing great!

Mama, Yes you can have your coffee and creamer for breakfast. In fact, Jaminet says that as long as you don't have protein that you are still fasting. So extra fat as in a tbsp of coconut oil or butter is suggested to help prolong the 16 hours. Although, a tbsp of full fat cream has .3 gr of protein, that would not be considered enough protein as long as you don't have more. I would limit the cream to 1 tbsp until you reach your end.

I can't believe the craziness of yesterday. Tornadoes were all over, we had to prepare to go underground and my eating plan of enjoying "free day" was out the door. I barely ate and when I did it was random non-fun food. Such as a sardine, plantain chips or a mozzarella stick. So, today, I will celebrate a real free day with lots of goods and then get back to my PHD only all week.

Sprouts had beautiful mangoes this week, so my plan is to also have a mango in my smoothie. Another fruit that is super healthy!

Quote:
Health benefits of Mangoes

Mango fruit is rich in pre-biotic dietary fiber, vitamins, minerals, and poly-phenolic flavonoid antioxidant compounds.

According to new research study, mango fruit has been found to protect against colon, breast, leukemia and prostate cancers. Several trial studies suggest that polyphenolic anti-oxidant compounds in mango are known to offer protection against breast and colon cancers.

Mango fruit is an excellent source of Vitamin-A and flavonoids like beta-carotene, alpha-carotene, and beta-cryptoxanthin. 100 g of fresh fruit provides 765 mg or 25% of recommended daily levels of vitamin A. Together; these compounds are known to have antioxidant properties and are essential for vision. Vitamin A is also required for maintaining healthy mucus membranes and skin. Consumption of natural fruits rich in carotenes is known to protect the body from lung and oral cavity cancers.

Fresh mango is a good source of potassium. 100 g fruit provides 156 mg of potassium while just 2 mg of sodium. Potassium is an important component of cell and body fluids that helps controlling heart rate and blood pressure.

It is also a very good source of vitamin-B6 (pyridoxine), vitamin-C and vitamin-E. Consumption of foods rich in vitamin C helps the body develop resistance against infectious agents and scavenge harmful oxygen-free radicals. Vitamin B-6 or pyridoxine is required for GABA hormone production within the brain. It also controls homocystiene levels within the blood, which may otherwise be harmful to blood vessels resulting in CAD and stroke.

Further, it composes moderate amounts of copper. Copper is a co-factor for many vital enzymes, including cytochrome c-oxidase and superoxide dismutase (other minerals function as co-factors for this enzyme are manganese and zinc). Copper is also required for the production of red blood cells.

Additionally, mango peel is also rich in phytonutrients, such as the pigment antioxidants like carotenoids and polyphenols.
Photo I took of the tornado that passed just north of my place. 2nd photo is from my SNL front door. We are supposed to have more today.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:55 AM   #504
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Kristin,

I made my plantain chips and they are good. I sliced 3 plantains in chips, laid them out on a baking pan and covered with foil, then sat in the 90 degree sun for 3 hours. I thought they taste like a banana chip. I can snack on these throughout the week. What about you?

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Old 05-20-2013, 07:15 AM   #505
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I saw this on the morning news!! Great story!

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Lindy, You are doing great!

Mama, Yes you can have your coffee and creamer for breakfast. In fact, Jaminet says that as long as you don't have protein that you are still fasting. So extra fat as in a tbsp of coconut oil or butter is suggested to help prolong the 16 hours. Although, a tbsp of full fat cream has .3 gr of protein, that would not be considered enough protein as long as you don't have more. I would limit the cream to 1 tbsp until you reach your end.

I can't believe the craziness of yesterday. Tornadoes were all over, we had to prepare to go underground and my eating plan of enjoying "free day" was out the door. I barely ate and when I did it was random non-fun food. Such as a sardine, plantain chips or a mozzarella stick. So, today, I will celebrate a real free day with lots of goods and then get back to my PHD only all week.

Sprouts had beautiful mangoes this week, so my plan is to also have a mango in my smoothie. Another fruit that is super healthy!

Photo I took of the tornado that passed just north of my place. 2nd photo is from my SNL front door. We are supposed to have more today.

So sorry for your scary tornado day!! I hate tornado weather and will take an earthquake over tornadoes any day of the week. Be safe!

I'm hanging in, doing LC to get myself under control. I love reading the results of everyone's differing experiments. My own experience so far with RS is bloating, which I hate. I'm actually doing LC to get rid of excess water and stomach bloating. When I feel better I'll try again with the RS. I think it has great potential.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:28 AM   #506
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Blonde, I take breaks from RS will continue to do breaks any time that I feel the need to. Every Sat/Sun for sure, because I really like to eat.

I don't like earthquakes either. I can't imagine being on the 10th floor or any building that is multi-stories in an earthquake.

I agree about LC because it does help keep my cravings at bay. I think the taters are the only carb besides carrots, squash and zucchini that I ingest regularly.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:37 AM   #507
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Blonde, I take breaks from RS will continue to do breaks any time that I feel the need to. Every Sat/Sun for sure, because I really like to eat.
Sunday, you may be tickled to learn that after your persuasive postings on the topic of BRM unmodified potato starch over on JUDDD I have parted with a the highway robbery sum involved in purchasing some in the UK.

Since coming back to LCFs in January, I've bought a mass of ingredients that I've never purchased before (eg, sugar-free syrups, lupin flour), spent 28 days eating nothing but potatoes and rice, and now I'm about to start eating potato starch. (I've just had to re-order my SF syrups and some other items.)

Reading back in this thread, it's odd how very different eating preferences are. Liver, bacon and onion gravy is a very popular dish in some parts of the UK. Liver was a staple for long periods of my childhood. However, my DH had rarely eaten it before he married me, so there are differences even within the UK.

Last edited by SlowSure; 05-20-2013 at 08:38 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:51 AM   #508
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Hello everyone, I was wondering if this would also work for someone who is doing JUDD not low carbing.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:48 AM   #509
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TB, Perfect Health Diet recommended foods would be a healthy way to JUDDD. The fasting recommendations between the two authors differs but wouldn.'t be a deal killer.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #510
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Sunday, please let us kmow you are alright

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Lindy, You are doing great!



I can't believe the craziness of yesterday. Tornadoes were all over, we had to prepare to go underground and my eating plan of enjoying "free day" was out the door. I barely ate and when I did it was random non-fun food. Such as a sardine, plantain chips or a mozzarella stick. So, today, I will celebrate a real free day with lots of goods and then get back to my PHD only all week.

Sprouts had beautiful mangoes this week, so my plan is to also have a mango in my smoothie. Another fruit that is super healthy!



Photo I took of the tornado that passed just north of my place. 2nd photo is from my SNL front door. We are supposed to have more today.
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