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Old 05-15-2013, 08:04 AM   #451
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Feel great today. I am sleeping like a log, not waking in the wee hours is almost unheard of for moi.
I am studying up on adiponectin and RS. Does anyone know anything about this hormone? It has a lot to do with how well our appetite and cravings are regulated. I wish I had time to read and digest this today, but may not until this weekend.

Quote:
Impact of Resistant Starch on Body Fat Patterning and Central Appetite Regulation

It would appear that slowly absorbed fermentable carbohydrate results in lower body fat content with no change in overall body weight . At the present time, the mechanism for these observations is unclear. There is also some provisional evidence that diets high in resistance starch (RS) may have an effect on adipocyte metabolism by affecting the release of adiponectin . The metabolic impact of RS in humans has recently been demonstrated by Robertson etal [10]. In this study supplementation with RS lead to a increase insulin sensitivity and a reduction in glycerol and free fatty acids across subcutaneous adipose tissue [10]. This is suggestive of a change in adipocyte metabolism that may lead to a change in insulin sensitivity. Also, fermentable carbohydrate such as RS and inulin has been demonstrated to increase the release of gut hormones with roles in appetite regulation and possibly, leptin release [9], [11].

Significant differences in total, subcutaneous and visceral adipose tissue was observed, the ingestion of a low RS diet leading to significantly greater deposition of adipose tissue. These observations are similar to those of Pawlak et al [7] in which rats maintained on a diet low in RS had significantly greater body fat and less lean body mass than those given a high RS diet, despite having similar mean body weights.
PLOS ONE: Impact of Resistant Starch on Body Fat Patterning and Central Appetite Regulation
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:24 AM   #452
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Hey all. I'm in Europe (montreux Switzerland at the moment) and won't return til the end of may. Checking in will be difficult. Love everyone's N=1 experiments and will need your expertise when I return after two weeks of pastry and chocolates (will be in Salzburg the last week, oy!)
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:26 AM   #453
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Thanks Ouiz! Switzerland is on my bucket list.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:15 PM   #454
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Hi Kristin! We are all whacked. The end.
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:43 PM   #455
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Ahem, but I love this group of wacko's.



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Old 05-15-2013, 04:01 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
Sunday, I've been reading the rs stuff with interest. What on earth were they using potato starch for before this? (I'll look it up.)
Oh yes, potato starch is used quite a bit before this point in our paleo journey!
Potato starch is used in baking gluten free goodies. Lots of good results, it seems. I think I will mix the tapioca/potato starch and try some brownies this weekend.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:24 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
Hey all. I'm in Europe (montreux Switzerland at the moment) and won't return til the end of may. Checking in will be difficult. Love everyone's N=1 experiments and will need your expertise when I return after two weeks of pastry and chocolates (will be in Salzburg the last week, oy!)
Enjoy!!!
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:13 PM   #458
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Boo-yah! Finally.

I have been in touch w/ Tatertot. Whew! Quite glad to be able to get answers.

He would like to come here but can't because he tried a while back and was banned for posting a link to PHD.
He did answer many questions. I will copy & paste here, but if you want to go to PHD and search for Tatertot you can read all of the info pertaining to the RS. Hopefully, if anyone else has any questions, we can just log on to the site and post for his attention. He loves taters more than I do!

Tatertot--
Quote:
As to vinegar and lemon juice, no problem. Only heat can destroy RS.

I agree with Darrin about starting slowly. Almost everyone is experiencing a bit more gas, I think it is just a natural progression as gut microbes change. If it causes pain and bloating, stop. Nothing ventured–nothing gained, though. I think 1/2 – 1TBS a day starting out for a couple weeks even may be best.

You can take it spread out however you like, shouldn’t make a difference at all. Most of the studies supplied it to volunteers in a spread-out fashion. I have found that for lowering morning FBG it only works if I take my complete dose right after dinner. Any other time and maybe my BG is lowered throughout the day, but if I take it right after dinner, I find I am not wanting to snack in the evening, get a great night of sleep, and wake up with FBG in the 80-95 range.

I would love to come and join your discussion on Low Carb Friends, but I have some issues with the moderators there. I posted a bit a while back and (gasp) included a relevant link to this site, and promptly got put on a strict moderation list. It made it impossible to join a conversation, so until they relax their no-link policy…I’m surprised you could start a PHD thread. I got in trouble for just using the initials PHD once.

I don’t know how you can manage it, but you should try to get everyone to look at: Resistant Starch - Friend or Foe? | Digestive Health InstituteDigestive Health Institute It’s written for people who have intestinal troubles and maybe RS is not the best for them. Norm Robillard is a darn smart guy on gut health!

Good luck! I get an email if there are new comments here, so ask away!I missed your question on pre/diabetics;

I am not officially prediabetic, but was once. My FBG has been in the 115-130 range for several years, even while eating PHD style. With an evening dose of 4TBS of potato starch, my FBG will be 80-95.

At: Free The Animal -- we have a good discussion going and one guy said this:

“Phil Parsons // May 12, 2013 at 03:31
I’m a pretty big guy (6’4? 265lbs) and half-measures don’t usually apply, so I jumped right in and had 4tbsp of potato starch last night (Littleton Grist Mill brand link to ... ). I’m LC (<30g carb/day) and a well-controlled (AFBG <90) T1 diabetic as well, so maybe that perspective can add something.

- I had two servings of 2tbsp in large glasses of water, an hour before dinner (~6pm), and 1 hour after (~8pm), shortly before bed. No real intent to this, 2tbsp just seemed like the saturation point and I didn't want to deal with clumping.

- Zero post-meal hunger cravings last night (and none this morning as I write this), although that is highly variable for me anyway.

- At about 8:30pm, I experienced a sudden rush of euphoria – I couldn't stop grinning like an idiot – that lasted for at least a half-hour. It was seriously weird, but nice.

- Around the same time I became extremely drowsy. Not the exhausted, can't-keep-my-eyes-open kind (my usual, I normally wake up at 4am), just a very pleasant sleepiness that is usually the prelude to a really kick-@ss sleep.

- Sleep was deep, completely refreshing, and filled with rich, detailed, narrative dreams. If I was awakened (usually by cats) I fell back into dream-state effortlessly (unusual for me, I'm one of those when-I'm-up-I'm-up kind of people).

- The cats had to work extra hard to wake me this morning (they had to send in the Big Gun, our 27lb male, to sit on my chest). If not for them I might have slept till who-knows-when, again highly unusual for me.

- I was a little bit gassy this morning, and I do feel like there is something afoot in "the works", but nothing like others have reported. However, I am a bit sluggish in this area anyway, so I would have been surprised to experience anything dramatic within the first 12 hours.

- FBG was about 20 points lower than I would have expected this morning (57mg/dl). Since I am high-fat low-carb the seemingly low number itself isn’t unusual, but I’ve been titrating my long-acting insulin dose and so my numbers have actually been on the high side for the last few days (~100-110mg/dl)."

and this:

"Quick Day 3 update:
- I’ve been having 2tbsp with water an hour or two before dinner, and another 2tbsp either with or after dinner.

- My post-meal BG increases are very mild, but since I eat HFLC 99% of the time, that might not prove much, other than that potato starch has very little apparent effect on BG level.

- Similarly, my FBG is typically <90, but as discussed further up the thread this is a less useful datum coming from a T1D. Within limits, my FBG could be almost whatever I wish it to be. But again, this demonstrates that 4tbsp of a highly refined starch can be a good fit for a BG management strategy.

- I consistently get a brief euphoric rush about an hour after the first serving. Am I the only one so far it happens to?

- I sleep more soundly and dream vividly. Loving that part, almost worth the price of admission alone.

- I do get more gassy than normal, but it is not extremely offensive, and doesn't last long. So far no change in bathroom visits, but I am sometimes a 1-2x per week kind of fella, so even three days might not be enough time for big changes to manifest."
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #459
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sunday you are too sweet for words thank you so much!!!
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:24 PM   #460
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I'm home!!!!

First chance to check in. Missed you guys, a lot... Unfortunately, there is not a lot of humor at Freida's. I can't help her. She needs a strong strapping girl to lift her to her feet. Can't do that. I'm big but not strapping. I will say she underestimated how much care she needed to me. I understood that I would be with her and cook for her. (I'm not even going into the diaper stories. ) We have arranged for her next door neighbor (young girl) to get her up in the morning and put her to bed. I'll still come and cook for her but that's all. Of course, she's pissed at me but seriously...... I think she will have to go to a nursing home for good. She doesn't like my PHD foods. Hummmm.

Missed my scales, diet plan and everybody's support. Now I can try to get started again. I ate my liver, potatoes, tuna and sardines. I made beef stew with RS and it was good. Not resistant but good in place of flour. I need to get to the store to get supplies for my fermented veggies and stuff.

Glad to be home both here and with you.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:26 PM   #461
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More from Tatertot~
Quote:
Wout – That’s exactly what I’m thinking, too.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0015046

This is the study I was referencing. If you read it very carefully, it is showing that on a 33g/day RS diet, the strains of gut flora remain the same (good and bad) but the population size of the bad (enterobacteria) decrease and populations of good microflora (bifidobacteria) increase.

This is what microbewiki says about the bifidobacteria family:

“Bifidobacteria, called probiotics, are a natural part of the bacterial flora in the human body and have a symbiotic bacteria-host relationship with humans. B. longum promotes good digestion, boosts the immune system, and produces lactic and acetic acid that controls intestinal pH. These bacteria also inhibit the growth of Candida albicans, E. coli, and other bacteria that have more pathogenic qualities than Bifidobacteria.”

So, basically, anytime you take a probiotic, you are eating some bifidobacteria. Eating RS allows the probiotics to outgrow the bad guys, but won’t kill them off–which is probably a good thing.

Another common theme when you read about gut flora is that ‘good’ flora is ‘Gram-positive’ and ‘bad’ flora is ‘Gram-negative’. RS allows the Gram-positive types to flourish and the Gram-negative types to diminish.

I don’t know what Gram-positive and negative really means, but it seems important to the topic of RS. I plan on digging into it when I have a bit more time.
Quote:
Richard at Free the Animal is working on another blog piece with dozens of pertinent studies and links. What I can say about RS is that it is definitely a well-studied element with numerous connections to good health, weight loss, satiety, etc…

The problem is, it’s all studies. We are the only people in the world, as far as I know, who are targeting daily RS intakes in the ranges used in the studies.

All the studies say the RS is well-tolerated, but almost everyone in real life is getting pretty well gassed up. Whether this is a hurdle we can overcome is yet to be seen.

Paul J.’s take is that RS is a good thing, but probably just what is found in real foods. I’m thinking there is a shortage as far as the bigger benefits and only a targeted supplement will get us to a level where satiety, lipid metabolism, weightloss, etc… will occur.

Amount, timing, source, are all wildcards at this point and it’s all self-experimentation by a few brave souls. The Perfect Health Diet as laid out in the book probably provides 8-10g/day of RS. Each TBS of potato starch is an extra 8g. I’m telling everyone to start low and work up over a month or so.
Someone named Alfred May 16, 2013 at 1:49 pm

Quote:
hi tater, re bathroom visits, that is the only thing that has changed with me and my wife. after only 4 day’s. wife on 1 tblsp x 2/day. me on 2tblsp x 2/day.bathroom visits are every day sometime 2 times. volume and passability are 10 out of 10.
i have not seen any improvement in FBG.
thks alfred

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Old 05-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #462
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Hello Dawn & Lindy,

Hope you both are doing well. I am eating my regular PHD and supp'ing with RS at 3 tbsp today. No problems, so I will continue on.

Lindy, It sounds like you have a lot to contend with! I missed you too!
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:05 PM   #463
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I don't know how I missed this, but it was posted 3 years ago...

Quote:
java October 5, 2010 at 9:19 am
just wondering whether potatoes have any place in a weight loss diet ???


Reply
Paul Jaminet October 5, 2010 at 9:33 am

Hi java,

Yes, safe starches should be present in a weight loss diet. We generally recommend 400 calories per day, mostly from “safe starches”, for the metabolically healthy, and a “ketogenic” approach for those who have been metabolically damaged by obesity and diabetes, with 200 calories per day from safe starches plus lots of coconut oil.

So, those with “diabesity” as Chris calls it may benefit from eating a little less of the starches than others, but they shouldn’t go to the zero-starch extreme. That risks health problems from glucose deprivation.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #464
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That is really good info. Thanks, Sunday.
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:52 AM   #465
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1. Thanks, Sunday! Fantastic stuff on RS.
2. You guys are very funny. You should be on stage.
Have a great day, everybody.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:35 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Hello Dawn & Lindy,

Hope you both are doing well. I am eating my regular PHD and supp'ing with RS at 3 tbsp today. No problems, so I will continue on.

Lindy, It sounds like you have a lot to contend with! I missed you too!
I never thought I would say this, but I have had good results with the RS as well. Wow!! The first day I took it I had 1 TBL. And thought no biggie. Then the next day I took the same amount. Well, I think it started to kick in yesterday. I was not as hungry yesterday. So I hope it continues!!! Not sure when I will increase my dose, maybe I won't have to! Thank you so much for sharing all you learn. You are a gem
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:14 AM   #467
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Hi Lindy, welcome back!

Sunday, wow, great information! I'm slowly starting RS, two T's yesterday. Will try for 2 today as well. Ate like the proverbial horse yesterday, but hey that's me. I'll try to reel it in today.

Kristin~ I would love to be onstage. Oh what fun.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:31 AM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
2. You guys are very funny. You should be on stage.
Have a great day, everybody.
We funny.
I laugh at our group all of the time.
I am amused that now I walk right past the lovely meat counter w/ all of the displays of natural/organic grassfed beef/bison and turkey and go straight forward hunting for knuckles & joint bones & liver! Of all things! I would have never thought this would be me and recall being amused at the folks that did. Even as recent as last year, I was shaking my head while reading over at PaleoHacks because I found that entire group quite entertaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawnyama View Post
I never thought I would say this, but I have had good results with the RS as well. Wow!! The first day I took it I had 1 TBL. And thought no biggie. Then the next day I took the same amount. Well, I think it started to kick in yesterday. I was not as hungry yesterday. So I hope it continues!!! Not sure when I will increase my dose, maybe I won't have to! Thank you so much for sharing all you learn. You are a gem
Thank you Dawn!!! I hope that others will find these results.
I am overjoyed that this is working. It is so simple. I eat twice a day. I don't even fuss or concern myself on whether I am eating something that is going to cause any health issues. Everything I eat is truly "perfect" for my health. Which makes me feel like a million bucks. Can't beat this!

I find it odd that I quit obsessing about cravings. I have none.
Not even the thin crust Tartuffo pizza from my fav Italian restaurant Benvenutti's or Chipotle bowls, which truly ranked up there as #1 on my list of "must have now" treats. I made a wonderful recipe last Sunday from PHD's site, Shou-Ching's Shrimp Fried Rice dish. I loved it, but did not really feel like eating it night and day. Which in the past, if I make something that is yummy, I am eating it till it is gone. No, it is still in my fridge and unfortunately, will have to toss.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:29 AM   #469
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Wow, that is very encouraging.

I should get my order of more potato starch tomorrow. The Hi Maize is just giving me too many side effects, although it really works for making me feel full.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:49 AM   #470
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One more thing that has changed about me. I crave ginger! Why? When I hated the taste for my whole life, what changed? I love fresh ginger in my green smoothie now.

So, I looked up what the health benefits are, thinking maybe my body needs this Asian herb. I find it very interesting about what it says re: ovarian cancer and migraines. I pray that I never have to fight the ovarian cancer, but have known a few that have. My daughter has had a form of cervical cancer.

Quote:
Ovarian Cancer Treatment
Ginger may be powerful weapon in the treatment of ovarian cancer. A study conducted at the University of Michigan Comprehensive Cancer Center found that ginger powder induces cell death in all ovarian cancer cells to which it was applied.
Quote:
Migraine Relief
Research has shown that ginger may provide migraine relief due to its ability to stop prostaglandins from causing pain and inflammation in blood vessels.
10 Health Benefits of Ginger

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Old 05-17-2013, 09:19 AM   #471
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sunday--my DH has ginger all the time. I give it to him for his digestion/nausea. He loves the ginger "candy" (it is more like crystallized ginger than an actual candy) you can find in Whole Foods.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:47 PM   #472
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Be sure your ginger comes from the US and not China. The ground they grow it in there is tainted. This comes from a produce inspector in Hawaii that checks things coming in here. Look for country of origin.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:05 PM   #473
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Be sure your ginger comes from the US and not China. The ground they grow it in there is tainted. This comes from a produce inspector in Hawaii that checks things coming in here. Look for country of origin.
Thank you! I buy mine from an organic grocer, but I will find out where they are getting it from. I wonder if it is hard to grow? Probably not.
How is your RS trial? Are you noticing anything yet?

Has anyone heard from Bev? I miss her good advice!

Cici? Are you still taking the RS?
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:23 PM   #474
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Be sure your ginger comes from the US and not China. The ground they grow it in there is tainted. This comes from a produce inspector in Hawaii that checks things coming in here. Look for country of origin.
Thanks for the tip. I just checked my ginger. The Trader Joes ginger says product of USA. I have been slicing it up for tea.

I hadn't thought about putting in a smoothie!
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:08 PM   #475
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Hi ladies, Hope your day was as good as mine. Resting up from my labors today. I didn't go to Freida's today because she said she was fine and to rest. Only problem, I left all my special foods over there. Especially my potatoes and RS. No car available for the grocery so I made do. Pork roast and blackeyed peas. Not very good but here. I kept the peas lukewarm. Does the starch in them also become resistant?
I read again on PGD site to not count the carb calories for veggies that are not starch. How about the carrots, beets, root veggies? Wonder about that. There is so much to learn and I can't study fast enough.
The girls are right, Sunday. You are amazing at finding out what we need to know.
I got back on the scales today and was only up 1.2 from my lowest. So I'm not concerned. It'll come.
I need to go to the store and pick up more liver, potatoes, and sardines. Gonna try to stay on plan. It's not hard. HOWEVER, I did have a small serving of pound cake last night. A welcome home treat. Only time in almost 4 mo that I've had sugar or flour. Good though.
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:29 PM   #476
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Still drinking my RS. Having a bit of a wacky weekend with lots of eating out. I get full fast and just bring my leftovers home! Do love to read all of this info though!
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:42 AM   #477
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Turns out there's no Bob's (red mill? something mill?) potato starch in my little city. Any other recommendations?
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #478
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Lindy, You go girl on that Pound Cake. I am attempting brownies today.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:37 PM   #479
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Sunday,
Thanks! We don't have plantains, either, but I can look into the other stuff. I'd love to see how it feels.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:39 PM   #480
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Hi, gang. I dont have consistant internet so have decided to have a break from trying to keep up with my cyberpeeps for now.

Sunday, regarding your question about RS results, my experience is nonconclusive. I am sleeping well and dreaming vibidly. Appetite varies. My gut is very happy lately. I dont think potato starch is the magic bullet but do think there are benefits to the resistant starch.

Wish everbody success. To your health!
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