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Old 03-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #121
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I loved leeks, shrooms, onion and celery. If you saute the veggies then add the stock, yum.

The cauliflower soup would be a great. What about butternut squash soup? I also love to use braggs liquid aminos to saute my veggies with. OMG, I can make anything taste wonderful with that one addition.

Last edited by sunday; 03-11-2013 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #122
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The cauliflower soup would be a great. What about butternut squash soup? I also love to use braggs liquid aminos to saute my veggies with. OMG, I can make anything taste wonderful with that one addition.
I guess it depends on the calorie limit for fasting. I'm aiming for a 2p-8p window at the moment but I also bike to work so I need a little something to wake up. I adore butternut but I wonder if it's too much energy?

Does Braggs taste like soy sauce?
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:54 AM   #123
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Hey Pete! Hiding some bone broth in soup not only adds depth and richness to the soup, but it also hides the actual flavor of the broth.

Everyone is different, but I ingest about/slightly over 100 - 150 calories of hwc and bone broth with egg yolk most mornings (admittedly, over a period of two hours - not all at once) and do not seem to break the fast.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:54 AM   #124
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Hey Pete! Hiding some bone broth in soup not only adds depth and richness to the soup, but it also hides the actual flavor of the broth.

Everyone is different, but I ingest about/slightly over 100 - 150 calories of hwc and bone broth with egg yolk most mornings (admittedly, over a period of two hours - not all at once) and do not seem to break the fast.
So explain this to me, because I find myself struggling with not eating in the mornings. I can do MCT oil in my tea, but how do we know we are not breaking a fast? How can broth, cream and eggyolk not break the fast? It sounds like food to me? I would love to put off eating til later, but I still want the benefits of fasting.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:24 AM   #125
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The best theory I have been able to come up with is it takes a certain number of calories (metabolically/exercise based and different for each of us) to 'break' fast. I drink a cuppa coffee with 1 tsp of hwc - figure 20 calories. My body probably burns more than that digesting the stuff - fast remains active. An hour or so later I do it again. A couple of hours later I fix the BB - figure 100 calories. The first cals are burned up and gone. That does not seem to be enough to break the fast.

For me, back when I was struggling to eat enough on UDs, I had to eat about 500 calories for lunch to ensure I stopped sirtuin activation and accomplished a successful UD.

I dunno 'zoid. Maybe my metabolism is not as normal as I think it is? JUDDD convinced me that I burn pretty hot and fast. Maybe that explains it?
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:06 AM   #126
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I know Paul Jaminet thinks if you are protein fasted (no protein) that oil, fat, etc does not break the fast. I am not sure. Wish I had your metabolism girl. I am the opposite
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:15 AM   #127
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Ouiz, I am the same.

I abstain from protein but do allow hwc, butter, or evco. I don't seem to struggle as much as I did in the beginning, however, I am a protein lover, so I am more than ready for a steak/salmon by 11:00 am. I was assuming that Pete may not be doing the protein sparing fast, but fasting as in less than 500 cals?
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:19 AM   #128
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Morning everyone,

I also curious about this. I drink coffee with 2 tsp of coconut oil in my coffee during my fasting window. It has really helped me... BUT I have no clue if it is breaking the fast or not. How does one tell?
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:49 AM   #129
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Paul recommends abstaining from protein during this 16 hour period. So, evco is fine! He even speaks a lot about taking a tbsp of coconut oil during his fasting period to keep him energetic. Pickles, olives, cukes have zero protein as most fruit, so if you are up late and desire a snack this would be the best recommendation.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:55 AM   #130
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Bev or anyone~

Has anyone here had an "Intestinal Permeability Assessment" through a doctor?
This test analyzes urine for the clearance of two non-metabolized sugars, lactulose and mannitol. It identifies 'leaky gut' and malabsorption.

Or "Adrenal Hormone Assessment"?

Provides measurement of salivary Adrenal Hormones: 4 timed cortisols and 2 DHEAs. The AH (adrenal hormone) Profile analyzes cortisol levels at four times during the day, allowing the practitioner to graph the patient's curve against a normal adrenal curve. The circadian rhythm of adrenal tissue is best assessed at multiple times of the day to determine the adrenal gland's ability to respond to daily stressors and therapeutic intervention. Cortisol (X4) and DHEA (X2) levels are measured from four saliva samples, the first collected between 7:00 and 8:00 am and then one every five hours thereafter for the remaining three samples.

I am having Thyroid and Hormone diagnostic testing and was thinking about adding these two, but wonder if it is necessary?
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Bev or anyone~

Has anyone here had an "Intestinal Permeability Assessment" through a doctor?
This test analyzes urine for the clearance of two non-metabolized sugars, lactulose and mannitol. It identifies 'leaky gut' and malabsorption.

Or "Adrenal Hormone Assessment"?

Provides measurement of salivary Adrenal Hormones: 4 timed cortisols and 2 DHEAs. The AH (adrenal hormone) Profile analyzes cortisol levels at four times during the day, allowing the practitioner to graph the patient's curve against a normal adrenal curve. The circadian rhythm of adrenal tissue is best assessed at multiple times of the day to determine the adrenal gland's ability to respond to daily stressors and therapeutic intervention. Cortisol (X4) and DHEA (X2) levels are measured from four saliva samples, the first collected between 7:00 and 8:00 am and then one every five hours thereafter for the remaining three samples.

I am having Thyroid and Hormone diagnostic testing and was thinking about adding these two, but wonder if it is necessary?
I have not. I really wanted the Intestinal Permeability Assessment but I have one of those California HMO's for coverage, and they don't cover stuff like this. My GI doc said I didn't need it because I definitely have gut issues and I know it and it wouldn't really change the course of my treatment anyway. I treated myself as though I do have permeability issues as all signs point to it and my nutrition guru had me work on healing leaky gut with L-glutamine and bone broth etc. without benefit of the testing. If it doesn't cost you and arm and a leg, why not include the tests, and find out where you stand?
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #132
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Hi all,
Sorry to interrupt your permeability. I'll just insert a recipe for pâté. Liver, disguised.

Pâté

1/4 c butter
3/4 c shallots
1 clove garlic
1 lb chicken livers, trimmed
Salt and pepper
2 tsp finely chopped fresh thyme
1/4 c. brandy (I'll try broth)
1/4 t nutmeg
Pinch allspice

Melt butter
1. Add shallots and garlic, cook till very tender, 5-10 minutes.
2. Season chicken livers with salt and pepper. Add to pan and cook till just pink inside. Add thyme and brandy and cook 5 minutes or until most of the liquid has evaporated.
3. Transfer to food processor, add nutmeg and allspice, and process.

I hear this is dead easy. Will try his week.
Back to permeability.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #133
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Hi all,
Sorry to interrupt your permeability. I'll just insert a recipe for pâté. Liver, disguised.

Pâté

1/4 c butter
3/4 c shallots
1 clove garlic
1 lb chicken livers, trimmed
Salt and pepper
2 tsp finely chopped fresh thyme
1/4 c. brandy (I'll try broth)
1/4 t nutmeg
Pinch allspice

Melt butter
1. Add shallots and garlic, cook till very tender, 5-10 minutes.
2. Season chicken livers with salt and pepper. Add to pan and cook till just pink inside. Add thyme and brandy and cook 5 minutes or until most of the liquid has evaporated.
3. Transfer to food processor, add nutmeg and allspice, and process.

I hear this is dead easy. Will try his week.
Back to permeability.
Thanks Kristin. I might try it with the brandy. I recently tried duck liver pate and find I can get it in. I put it on some coconut flour crackers I made with a glass of red wine and it is okay enough. The smell of liver cooking is "ugh" to me. But I may put clothespins on my nose and try this!
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #134
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K, YUM!

My body must really like the stuff, because I have memory lapse of my original aversion and find myself craving liver. Weird.

Bev, I think I agree with you on the gut. I am going with the fact that I think it is true and just keep up the l-glut and bb. On the cortisol and addrenals, I think I will take the plunge and pay for it. My PPO doesn't include this either. Very annoying, since adrenals/cortisol can be the cause of many health issues.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:47 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picklepete View Post
I guess it depends on the calorie limit for fasting. I'm aiming for a 2p-8p window at the moment but I also bike to work so I need a little something to wake up. I adore butternut but I wonder if it's too much energy?

Does Braggs taste like soy sauce?
Braggs does have a slight soy taste. It simplifies grilling fish, chicken or steak, just spritz and grill. I add it to my veggies and they taste so much better.

Butternut would probably break your fast, so you are doing the 16 hour or more? Just curious.

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Our Bragg Liquid Aminos are made from health-giving, NON-GMO soybeans and purified water. They are an excellent, healthy, gourmet replacement for Tamari and Soy Sauce. Bragg's has a small amount of naturally occurring sodium. No table salt is added.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:13 PM   #136
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I guess it depends on the calorie limit for fasting. I'm aiming for a 2p-8p window at the moment but I also bike to work so I need a little something to wake up. I adore butternut but I wonder if it's too much energy?

Does Braggs taste like soy sauce?
Just want to say how impressed I am with anyone biking to work... in Minnisota... in March.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:29 PM   #137
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Hey Pete! Hiding some bone broth in soup not only adds depth and richness to the soup, but it also hides the actual flavor of the broth.

Everyone is different, but I ingest about/slightly over 100 - 150 calories of hwc and bone broth with egg yolk most mornings (admittedly, over a period of two hours - not all at once) and do not seem to break the fast.
Had not thought to try egg yolk in my bone broth until reading this but made the most delicious clean out the fridge soup this morning based on this. Measurements approximate.

4c bone broth
1c cauliflower precooked
1c spinach leaves
1c acorn squash precooked
1T CO
1c sourkraut including liquid
4 egg yolks

Warm all ingredients except yolks until spinach is wilted. Hit with immersion blender, add a bit of warm broth to egg yolks, then stir the yolks back to the warm soup. I liked the flavor without any salt or spices. Total calories by my calculator for the whole pot (7c) was under 600 (homemade defatted beef bone broth).

This may turn out to be a DD. Have only had 3c so far and not much hunger.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:38 PM   #138
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Thanks Kristin. I might try it with the brandy. I recently tried duck liver pate and find I can get it in. I put it on some coconut flour crackers I made with a glass of red wine and it is okay enough. The smell of liver cooking is "ugh" to me. But I may put clothespins on my nose and try this!
Have you tried microwave chips for crackers. I cut some sweet potato a little thicker and they were very much like crackers. Would easily have held up under a spread.

Are you still p-hacking? I ran out of potatoes yesterday so only 3 days. Still, my longest run so far.

Really noticing a change in satiety recently. Feel able to wait out the little tugs of hunger that I am feeling. Think maybe it is what "normal" people experience.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:42 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
Hi all,
Sorry to interrupt your permeability. I'll just insert a recipe for pâté. Liver, disguised.

Pâté

1/4 c butter
3/4 c shallots
1 clove garlic
1 lb chicken livers, trimmed
Salt and pepper
2 tsp finely chopped fresh thyme
1/4 c. brandy (I'll try broth)
1/4 t nutmeg
Pinch allspice

Melt butter
1. Add shallots and garlic, cook till very tender, 5-10 minutes.
2. Season chicken livers with salt and pepper. Add to pan and cook till just pink inside. Add thyme and brandy and cook 5 minutes or until most of the liquid has evaporated.
3. Transfer to food processor, add nutmeg and allspice, and process.

I hear this is dead easy. Will try his week.
Back to permeability.
Thanks, Kristin. The recipe I used last time had more butter - no brandy or broth. I will try this too.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Bev or anyone~

Has anyone here had an "Intestinal Permeability Assessment" through a doctor?
This test analyzes urine for the clearance of two non-metabolized sugars, lactulose and mannitol. It identifies 'leaky gut' and malabsorption.

Or "Adrenal Hormone Assessment"?

Provides measurement of salivary Adrenal Hormones: 4 timed cortisols and 2 DHEAs. The AH (adrenal hormone) Profile analyzes cortisol levels at four times during the day, allowing the practitioner to graph the patient's curve against a normal adrenal curve. The circadian rhythm of adrenal tissue is best assessed at multiple times of the day to determine the adrenal gland's ability to respond to daily stressors and therapeutic intervention. Cortisol (X4) and DHEA (X2) levels are measured from four saliva samples, the first collected between 7:00 and 8:00 am and then one every five hours thereafter for the remaining three samples.
Laughing at the sound of wind whistling between my ears while reading this. My self dignostic abilities run to Gut runs fast, gut runs slow, gut hurts, gut etc.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:49 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Had not thought to try egg yolk in my bone broth until reading this but made the most delicious clean out the fridge soup this morning based on this. Measurements approximate.

4c bone broth
1c cauliflower precooked
1c spinach leaves
1c acorn squash precooked
1T CO
1c sourkraut including liquid
4 egg yolks

Warm all ingredients except yolks until spinach is wilted. Hit with immersion blender, add a bit of warm broth to egg yolks, then stir the yolks back to the warm soup. I liked the flavor without any salt or spices. Total calories by my calculator for the whole pot (7c) was under 600 (homemade defatted beef bone broth).

This may turn out to be a DD. Have only had 3c so far and not much hunger.
Cici-
Are you still hacking. Starting day 5 here.
Thanks for explaining how to cook the egg in the broth. I was wondering about that!
When you warm your sauerkraut are you worried at all about killing off the good probiotics? Or does just warming it, preserve the valuable little bugs? I was really concerned when I heard my brand, Bubbies, was now heat treating their sauerkraut. But then I read this--

Our Pure Kosher Dills, Dill Relish, Pickled Green Tomatoes and Sauerkraut are all naturally fermented and cured in salt water brine using a lacto-fermentation process. These products contain live cultures and the enzymes that form from a natural fermentation.

The Pure Kosher Dills, Dill Relish and Pickled Green Tomatoes are 100% raw; the Sauerkraut in the jars has been flash heated but not pasteurized. This means that the sauerkraut is neither pasteurized nor raw. Bubbies Sauerkraut is heated in a steam bath bottle wash after the product has been sealed in the jar, and this does not kill off all the cultures, but rather just some of them that are producing the bulk of the carbon dioxide gas at that stage of the fermentation.

The hottest of the jars reach 130-140 degrees – no higher; the result is an approximate 10% decrease in culture content vs. a raw sample; but a product that will not continue to give off gas once sealed in the jar. Without the heating our Sauerkraut will continue to ferment in the refrigerator resulting in bulging lids, leaking jars and a big mess within the distribution to retailer to customer chain.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #142
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Have you tried microwave chips for crackers. I cut some sweet potato a little thicker and they were very much like crackers. Would easily have held up under a spread.

Are you still p-hacking? I ran out of potatoes yesterday so only 3 days. Still, my longest run so far.

Really noticing a change in satiety recently. Feel able to wait out the little tugs of hunger that I am feeling. Think maybe it is what "normal" people experience.
We cross posted. I will give the potato chips a try! Good idea. Yes I am starting day 5 of the hack. Strong change in appetite and no cravings. Seems too good to be true!!I often think the same thing... so THIS is what normal people feel!!
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:30 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Have you tried microwave chips for crackers. I cut some sweet potato a little thicker and they were very much like crackers. Would easily have held up under a spread.

Are you still p-hacking? I ran out of potatoes yesterday so only 3 days. Still, my longest run so far.

Really noticing a change in satiety recently. Feel able to wait out the little tugs of hunger that I am feeling. Think maybe it is what "normal" people experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
We cross posted. I will give the potato chips a try! Good idea. Yes I am starting day 5 of the hack. Strong change in appetite and no cravings. Seems too good to be true!!I often think the same thing... so THIS is what normal people feel!!
Very excited to hear this! I believe this is the same way that I felt by day 3. By day 5, I was amazed that I had made it. I do agree on trying different methods of eating taters, because boredom starts setting in.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:39 PM   #144
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Laughing at the sound of wind whistling between my ears while reading this. My self dignostic abilities run to Gut runs fast, gut runs slow, gut hurts, gut etc.
I know! Bloated, blocked, or in motion.

Cici & Bev, Do either of you think that this may be a good tool once per month or every other week? I am thinking about tater hacking intermittently to get the ball rolling.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:46 PM   #145
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Bev & Cici, On the Bubbies. I don't fret about heating the kraut in with my veggies or soup, because I pour myself a drink every single day from the juice. I am addicted to the taste. I am still baffled by my strong desire for healthy over non-healthy treats daily. I am so afraid that I will wake some day and be the "old" me, who ate chips/cold pizza for breakfast and cake/cookies for lunch.

Last edited by sunday; 03-12-2013 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:52 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Bev or anyone~

Has anyone here had an "Intestinal Permeability Assessment" through a doctor?
This test analyzes urine for the clearance of two non-metabolized sugars, lactulose and mannitol. It identifies 'leaky gut' and malabsorption.

Or "Adrenal Hormone Assessment"?

Provides measurement of salivary Adrenal Hormones: 4 timed cortisols and 2 DHEAs. The AH (adrenal hormone) Profile analyzes cortisol levels at four times during the day, allowing the practitioner to graph the patient's curve against a normal adrenal curve. The circadian rhythm of adrenal tissue is best assessed at multiple times of the day to determine the adrenal gland's ability to respond to daily stressors and therapeutic intervention. Cortisol (X4) and DHEA (X2) levels are measured from four saliva samples, the first collected between 7:00 and 8:00 am and then one every five hours thereafter for the remaining three samples.

I am having Thyroid and Hormone diagnostic testing and was thinking about adding these two, but wonder if it is necessary?
I've done the Adrenal Hormone Assessment. It's easy--spit into the proper vial at the proper time of day, seal, and send off. I actually am supposed to do this test, under direction from a nutritionist I plan to start seeing in Spring, when I'm done with some travelling and the weather isn't horrible for taking 2 buses back and forth. It can be helpful to know the results, especially if you see a practitioner who takes adrenal fatigue seriously and is willing to treat it with supplements and advice (like get lots of sleep and do relaxation style exercise like yoga rather than aerobic style exercise).
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:56 PM   #147
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I know! Bloated, blocked, or in motion.

Cici & Bev, Do either of you think that this may be a good tool once per month or every other week? I am thinking about tater hacking intermittently to get the ball rolling.
I am thinking yes to this! I reserve the right to change my mind however...
It does seem like a reset to me. I don't know if a determined frequency needs to be established or do it "as needed". I think whenever I feel cravings creep in, this may be the tool to pull out of my tool belt. If I find at the end of the week that I had a good loss, I just might implement it more regularly to keep the scale moving. There definitely is something to this. I feel less hunger right now than I did doing HCG. But with me, things do seem to work initially and then stop, so time will tell.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:58 PM   #148
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Bev & Cici, On the Bubbies. I don't fret about heating the kraut in with my veggies or soup, because I pour myself a drink every single day from the juice. I am addicted to the taste. I am still baffled by my strong desire for healthy over non-healthy treats daily. I am so afraid that I will wake some day and be the old me, who ate chips/cold pizza for breakfast and cake/cookies for lunch.
I know that feeling. As I mentioned above, all things seem to work for me for awhile and then stop, so I don't like to get my hopes up any more. But like you, I am desiring healthy over non-healthy stuff and this is huge for me!! I am glad this is working so well for you.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:09 PM   #149
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I know that feeling. As I mentioned above, all things seem to work for me for awhile and then stop, so I don't like to get my hopes up any more. But like you, I am desiring healthy over non-healthy stuff and this is huge for me!! I am glad this is working so well for you.
I think the supplementation is making the difference in my ability to make good decisions. I think I am still fragile in the area of restricting and can only do it for short periods before needing to reload nutritionally. That said, I feel more in tune with the body's needs as opposed to my old stuff everything in until it stops screaming self.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
I know! Bloated, blocked, or in motion.

Cici & Bev, Do either of you think that this may be a good tool once per month or every other week? I am thinking about tater hacking intermittently to get the ball rolling.
Not sure on this. I think it might be important to limit the total starch carbs to the safe limit researched by Jaminet (600cals?). I may not understand the science but here is my take. There is only so much the body can do with glucose. It cannot turn it into protein. It can turn it into fat, but beyond the actual needs, Jaminet seems to consider it toxic. So - it seems to be good as used for a DD hack, however, it may not be so good in the eat all you want scenario mentioned on some of the PH threads. I do not think it has enough protein to supply muscle needs at low calorie levels. Also, have some concern about the potassium/sodium balance and strain on kidneys to maintain same given the high potassium of potatoes.

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Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
We cross posted. I will give the potato chips a try! Good idea. Yes I am starting day 5 of the hack. Strong change in appetite and no cravings. Seems too good to be true!!I often think the same thing... so THIS is what normal people feel!!
KUTGW

Regarding good bugs in sauerkraut (thanks for the spelling lesson) I don't think mine has them. I just have been eating it since a kid and it makes an enjoyable acid. Goes great with potatoes.

Last edited by cici52; 03-12-2013 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #150
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The best theory I have been able to come up with is it takes a certain number of calories (metabolically/exercise based and different for each of us) to 'break' fast. I drink a cuppa coffee with 1 tsp of hwc - figure 20 calories. My body probably burns more than that digesting the stuff - fast remains active. An hour or so later I do it again. A couple of hours later I fix the BB - figure 100 calories. The first cals are burned up and gone. That does not seem to be enough to break the fast.

For me, back when I was struggling to eat enough on UDs, I had to eat about 500 calories for lunch to ensure I stopped sirtuin activation and accomplished a successful UD.

I dunno 'zoid. Maybe my metabolism is not as normal as I think it is? JUDDD convinced me that I burn pretty hot and fast. Maybe that explains it?
Great point Nancy. I just now remembered this and wanted to come back and say just because Jaminet recommends the 16 hour fast 2x weekly, doesn't mean that we can't IF, JUDDD, or even 5:2 with PHD? He obviously agrees that the fast is important in our quest for Perfect Health.

I happen to have found that the daily 16 hour fast works very well for my lifestyle. No more counting, just eat PHD in the 8 hour window. Easy and I can still keep the sirtuin flowing.

Last edited by sunday; 03-12-2013 at 05:32 PM..
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