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Old 03-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
The udo one? I just started that one too. My gut is a mess and I am throwing everything I can at it.
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Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Oh yes, I remember that one! I think it goes...slowly I turn...step by step...inch by inch...

but I don't remember what comes after....I just remember it was funny. At first I thought it was from I Love Lucy.....?

Heavens, what is the Herxheimer reaction???
Funny you remember it too! I had to look it up!! Some remember it as an old Abbott and Costello or Three Stooges routine. Others recall it from an episode of I Love Lucy. So I guess we are both right.I just watched the Three Stooges YouTube of it. Not as funny as I remembered!!

The Herxheimer reaction occurs when large quantities of toxins are released into the body as bacteria and yeasts die off. The death of these bacteria and the release of toxins occurs faster than the body can remove the toxins. You feel crappy! It is sometimes something that happens when you start on antibiotic treatments or start using probiotics. It's sometimes called a detox reaction or healing crisis. I had one when I was doing an oil of oregano treatment to get rid of candida.

When any treatment or cleansing program causes a large scale die-off of bacteria, a significant amount of endotoxins (toxins within the bacteria itself) are released into the body. The more bacteria present, and the stronger their endotoxins, the stronger the cleansing reaction. When any treatment or detox causes the organs of the body (particularly the liver, which is a storehouse of drug and poison residues) to release their stored poisons and toxins, a cleansing reaction may occur. Any program, such as fasting, which causes a rapid breakdown of fat cells (which are a storehouse for toxins), can cause a healing crisis as toxins previously lodged in the fat cells are released into the blood stream.

I have a very messed up gut, so I need to be careful!
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:10 PM   #92
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Beverly, it sounds perfectly awful!

I remember when I first started using probiotic capsules I had quite the "flush effect" in that everything in my lower intestines exited my body. I was pretty miserable for awhile. If I miss taking them for more than a week or so the same thing happens...

It's hell looking for perfect health.....
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #93
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Beverly, it sounds perfectly awful!

I remember when I first started using probiotic capsules I had quite the "flush effect" in that everything in my lower intestines exited my body. I was pretty miserable for awhile. If I miss taking them for more than a week or so the same thing happens...

It's hell looking for perfect health..
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Your last statement made me laugh!!! It is!!
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:34 PM   #94
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Your last statement made me laugh!!! It is!!
Yeah me too! It's true, though right? I've been so messed up lately, reading everything and anything...I may just have to go back to JUDDD and use the stuff I've learned about PHD. I'm glad I made you laugh, that makes me happy.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:06 PM   #95
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...I did JUDDD for a year ans lost 40lbs...I'm still trying to get rid of the 20 I gained back with 15 more to go to get there. *SIGH*
I hear you on this and it is so frustrating!!! I did JUDDD for a year too and did great the first six months. I thought- this is it!! I can do this for life! Then what always happens... the majic stops and I stop losing.

I gained back weight like you. That is why I turned to PHD. Thinking if I heal myself, my body will cooperate again. I'll see your *sigh* and raise you two. *Sigh* *sigh*

We just need to keep on, Blonde.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:10 PM   #96
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Blonde, I am sorry. I have set points that my body likes to stabilize at for some reason? Not saying that is what it is, but it makes one wonder since it keeps trying to land there. In fact, I have read several times that it is usually a weight that we remained at for some period of time.

It is possible that your body is fighting something and that is why it isn't releasing weight? Dr. Jaminet speaks of this quite a bit. I am always slow and I feel that inflammation had to play a major role in my slow moving weight loss. You may find eating in a 8 hour window daily also helps. I notice a big difference with that too.

Sven & Bev, I love kombucha and will be attempting to make my own too. I am also falling in love with Coconut water & Kefir. Does anyone else drink this? I have been drinking one by KeVita that has 5 calories and is very refreshing.
I drink both coconut water and kefir. And I make the coconut water kefir out of my coconut water. Tastes like kombucha to me, with the fizziness. The one you describe sounds DELISH and I am going to have to find it.

I agree with what you said above about slow loss. I think there is some infection or internal inflammation going on when this happens.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:59 PM   #97
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Beverly, did you just regain as a result of not doing DDs anymore? I can't remember who is still rotating UDDDs. It seems like it would be normal to regain something after discontinuing calorie restriction of any type.


Cooked my first ever Asian Yam today. Lovely. Very filling.

Day two of tater hack went very well.

Breakfast - hungry after 12 hour fast - hash browns w/red bell pepper
Late morning - hungry - rice cooked in defatted lamb BB w/curry, cayenne, cumin
Mid afternoon - bored - few bites of cold yam, white potato and carrots
Dinner - not really hungry but wanted to close eating window full - rice with garlic

This was a different hunger pattern than normal for me so hoping maybe tomorrow will be able to rock a shorter eating window. Feel like something good is happening. Within the past week I started pterostilbene, resveratrol, D3, and a multi. Two days of mostly taters and rice and under 1000 has never been so easy. Could the supplements make a difference so soon?
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:06 PM   #98
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Congrats on your hack Cici!

Ah Beverly, a gambler, eh? I'll see your *sighs* and call.....HELP!

I gained my weight back because I did nothing. Totally on me. I could have kept it off had I continued doing anything. I did nothing. Never turn your back on your plan. That's what I learned.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:18 PM   #99
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Beverly, did you just regain as a result of not doing DDs anymore? I can't remember who is still rotating UDDDs. It seems like it would be normal to regain something after discontinuing calorie restriction of any type.


Cooked my first ever Asian Yam today. Lovely. Very filling.

Day two of tater hack went very well.

Breakfast - hungry after 12 hour fast - hash browns w/red bell pepper
Late morning - hungry - rice cooked in defatted lamb BB w/curry, cayenne, cumin
Mid afternoon - bored - few bites of cold yam, white potato and carrots
Dinner - not really hungry but wanted to close eating window full - rice with garlic

This was a different hunger pattern than normal for me so hoping maybe tomorrow will be able to rock a shorter eating window. Feel like something good is happening. Within the past week I started pterostilbene, resveratrol, D3, and a multi. Two days of mostly taters and rice and under 1000 has never been so easy. Could the supplements make a difference so soon?

I stopped the down days when I switched to the 16/8 fast and eating window. I switched to counting calories then. I think I will go back to doing both DD's and 16/8.

I don't know what kind of yams I normally eat, but they are delicious.

Cici- I am glad you are doing so well. I am on day two as well. I think the potatoes are so high on the satiety index that hunger is really diminished. I also know for me, that the pterostilbene impacted my hunger almost immediately. Sounds like you are healing Cici and that is exciting!
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:21 PM   #100
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Congrats on your hack Cici!

Ah Beverly, a gambler, eh? I'll see your *sighs* and call.....HELP!

I gained my weight back because I did nothing. Totally on me. I could have kept it off had I continued doing anything. I did nothing. Never turn your back on your plan. That's what I learned.
You are on a roll today. That should be your new tag line. I love it.
Never turn your back on your plan. Good advice.
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:28 PM   #101
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Cici, I believe the potatoes are so filling that we can eat far fewer cals. But, pterostilbene will definitely suppress appetite too. Good going!

Love the laughs all! Enjoying reading all of your thoughts.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:04 PM   #102
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Have also been sleeping good 7-8 hours almost every night.

Beverly, didn't know you were doing the hack right now. Nice to have company. What do your menus look like?

Re: the yam. One of Jaminet's posts indicated that he wanted to clarify yam as a safe starch instead of sweet potato because of more fructose in sweet potato. Of course, I can't find the referrence but it got me looking for yams. Since everything in the normal groceries called yams are really sweet potatoes, I went to an Asian market to find a yam. It is white inside and turns yellow with cooking. It is still a bit sweet but not like American sweet potatoes which are really not even related.

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Old 03-10-2013, 04:04 AM   #103
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When I first started eating coconut oil I had what seemed like a major flu - but no fever - for four days. Like Beverly, I recognized I was detoxing and stayed on the horse (so to speak).

I truly believe that weight loss happens best with consistent health. And I truly believe PHD points the way towards health. After much experimentation I settled on an eating pattern that keeps PHD food proportions, and keeps calorie intake low enough to be considered fasting for 16 - 20 hours most days, but follows JUDDD rotations. My body seems very happy with this: weight loss was slow but steady, maintenance is astoundingly simple.

We will see what happens when I get around to adding kefir and kombucha and (yes, I used to like it, am planning to try it again) liver. We will see if the marriage survives those foods - DH already thinks I am crazy.

I worry (a bit) about the absolutes PHD recommends - so many calories/day, so much volume of foods/day. The proportions make sense (to me), but we all know each of needs to experiment and find the volume and eating pattern that works best for our individual metabolism. We all know what is right for a six foot man is not going to work for a five foot woman (well, chocolate may be the exception to that rule - is it possible to bathe in chocolate?)

I think we are finding our way towards something. I am very hopeful about the results.
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:48 AM   #104
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:44 AM   #105
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Have also been sleeping good 7-8 hours almost every night.

Beverly, didn't know you were doing the hack right now. Nice to have company. What do your menus look like?

Re: the yam. One of Jaminet's posts indicated that he wanted to clarify yam as a safe starch instead of sweet potato because of more fructose in sweet potato. Of course, I can't find the referrence but it got me looking for yams. Since everything in the normal groceries called yams are really sweet potatoes, I went to an Asian market to find a yam. It is white inside and turns yellow with cooking. It is still a bit sweet but not like American sweet potatoes which are really not even related.
Yes I am on day 3 now. I was concerned about posting my plan on this thread since I didn't want to confuse anyone interested in doing PHD and thinking the potato hack was part of that. PHD letters already look like "potato hack diet". But I am not sure where to post about it since it isn't a JUDDD DD for me and I am kind of Paleo, but... If we had out own place, we could start a separate thread for PHD and PHDing. But we are pretty far off from 20 people to get our own PHD home.
Anyway... my menus have just been potatoes. Potatoes, salt, and vinegar. Nothing else yet at this point.

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When I first started eating coconut oil I had what seemed like a major flu - but no fever - for four days. Like Beverly, I recognized I was detoxing and stayed on the horse (so to speak).

I truly believe that weight loss happens best with consistent health. And I truly believe PHD points the way towards health. After much experimentation I settled on an eating pattern that keeps PHD food proportions, and keeps calorie intake low enough to be considered fasting for 16 - 20 hours most days, but follows JUDDD rotations. My body seems very happy with this: weight loss was slow but steady, maintenance is astoundingly simple.

We will see what happens when I get around to adding kefir and kombucha and (yes, I used to like it, am planning to try it again) liver. We will see if the marriage survives those foods - DH already thinks I am crazy.

I worry (a bit) about the absolutes PHD recommends - so many calories/day, so much volume of foods/day. The proportions make sense (to me), but we all know each of needs to experiment and find the volume and eating pattern that works best for our individual metabolism. We all know what is right for a six foot man is not going to work for a five foot woman (well, chocolate may be the exception to that rule - is it possible to bathe in chocolate?)

I think we are finding our way towards something. I am very hopeful about the results.
Good post. AS.ALWAYS. I also thought the same thing and was going to post it to Paul, but I didn't. There is no way we all have the same needs in the amount of food our body requires, but in terms of following macronutrient percentages, I think it is a good starting point. We all have to tweak. And I do think Paul made statements in the book about adjusting for various personal needs. My needs as a person with a chronic gut disorder are going to be different from someone who doesn't have that. I am concerned about going to low in calories however because the point of this for me is to get sufficient nutrition to start losing again. I am not sure how low I can go in calories and still get sufficient nutrition to make my body run well. That's the unknown number we would all like to know for ourselves. I don't think there is a magic number, and it is going to be fluid as we don't have the same needs day to day. Some days we are more physical, some days we have a cold, some days we are stressed. Our requirements are fluid.
I am going to go back to my higher days, lower days instead of steady amount of calories each day. I think that worked to keep me maintaining. Then I am going to fine tune my nutrients based on PHD.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:51 AM   #106
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When I first started eating coconut oil I had what seemed like a major flu - but no fever - for four days. Like Beverly, I recognized I was detoxing and stayed on the horse (so to speak).

I truly believe that weight loss happens best with consistent health. And I truly believe PHD points the way towards health. After much experimentation I settled on an eating pattern that keeps PHD food proportions, and keeps calorie intake low enough to be considered fasting for 16 - 20 hours most days, but follows JUDDD rotations. My body seems very happy with this: weight loss was slow but steady, maintenance is astoundingly simple.

We will see what happens when I get around to adding kefir and kombucha and (yes, I used to like it, am planning to try it again) liver. We will see if the marriage survives those foods - DH already thinks I am crazy.

I worry (a bit) about the absolutes PHD recommends - so many calories/day, so much volume of foods/day. The proportions make sense (to me), but we all know each of needs to experiment and find the volume and eating pattern that works best for our individual metabolism. We all know what is right for a six foot man is not going to work for a five foot woman (well, chocolate may be the exception to that rule - is it possible to bathe in chocolate?)

I think we are finding our way towards something. I am very hopeful about the results.
Oh and regarding the bathing in chocolate... it is very possible. When my niece went to Hershey PA, she had a luxurious chocolate bath. The jets of the tub were swirling the water and they poured a mixture of dry milk powder and cocoa into the tub and the smell of the hot chocolate permeated the room. She sunk her body into that magnificent mixture and took in the steamy scent of chocolate. She said it was divine. I know you can replicate that at home, but practical me, worries about plugging up my drain with chocolate and milk particles. I'd probably drink the tub water anyway.

edit- I had to look. Cadbury started a line of chocolate themed bath products. So there you go!

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Old 03-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #107
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Just as long as someone else scrubs the tub when I am through!!! Assuming, of course, I am ever willing to get out of a tub full of chocolate.

On a more practical note, I think alternating lowerish and higherish calories - and not cleaving to JUDDD's calculations - is a good idea. Your body went through purgatory last year, healing has to be your first goal
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:13 AM   #108
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Just as long as someone else scrubs the tub when I am through!!! Assuming, of course, I am ever willing to get out of a tub full of chocolate.

On a more practical note, I think alternating lowerish and higherish calories - and not cleaving to JUDDD's calculations - is a good idea. Your body went through purgatory last year, healing has to be your first goal
I am glad you agree with that approach. I want to model myself after your skinny healthy little self!
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:44 AM   #109
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The cruise is at the end of May. Just wait until you see pics of me dancing the night away in the ... shall we say ... effervescent clothes I plan to wear in public

Speaking of which...I am absolutely terrified of being without my precious bone broth for two weeks! If anyone runs across non-vegan gel caps (the old fashioned kind made with real animal) please let me know!
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:57 AM   #110
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The cruise is at the end of May. Just wait until you see pics of me dancing the night away in the ... shall we say ... effervescent clothes I plan to wear in public

Speaking of which...I am absolutely terrified of being without my precious bone broth for two weeks! If anyone runs across non-vegan gel caps (the old fashioned kind made with real animal) please let me know!
Sounds like a blast! Have you considered dehydrating your broth and taking some with you?You could reconstitute with some hot water. For emergencies or travel it could help. Loving your guts has a process for it. Seems like a lot of work, but may be worth it. I have always wanted to get a dehydrator, but never have.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:35 AM   #111
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Nancy, I completely agree about the macros being our guide. I don't always get my full 600 cals in protein or carb, but I am completely satisfied to the point that I have "no hunger" , no cravings, whatsoever. I stay as close to the 55-60 grams of fat/25 carbs/15 protein as I possibly can. I have never been so sure of a nutrition plan as I am today with PHD. So, the absolutes of getting in 1600 cals will probably never happen for this girl.

Unless, I have wine and soon very soon, that will be happening.

Gosh, I can't wait to hear about your cruise experiences!

Why not take a box of Great Lakes Gelatin, Collagen Endurance Plus, Natural Black Cherry. You simply add it to your bottled water similar to a Crystal Lite and voila you have all of the BB benefits... sort of like liquid jello.
I have enjoyed using Great Lakes Beef Broth Gelatin since learning about it on WAP so when they came out with the new individual drink supps, I was thrilled, what a great way to have BB at all times and easily available!

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Collagen Endurance Plus supports and promotes a healthy dietary program. The amino acids, vitamin B's, natural flavor, and colors are used in a variety of necessary cell reactions and can be metabolized to provide energy. Collagen Endurance Plus® provide an energy lift to support ones physical activity and mental awareness, feeling no highs as well as no lows or fatigue. Some experience a feeling of satisfaction or curbing of the appetite after taking this product. The rapid speed of absorption and distinctive spectrum of amino acids in this formula will positively impact a large number of metabolic pathways. Flavored and enhanced Collagen products are beneficial to health. Collagen is the structural protein of all higher life. It is the unique values of amino acids that allow the body to reproduce blood cells that nourish muscle, cartilage, tendon and bone to the optimal functionality. Glycine and Proline make up nearly 50% of Collagen, to meet the diverse metabolic demands these amino acids must be readily available. This product is designed to promote energy through absorption of high quality nutrients including protein, Vitamin B's, Taurine, and Vitamin C, which will stimulate natural body energy with a well balanced feeling. You will sustain an energy level for several hours, along with hydrating for post workloads.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:08 AM   #112
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Actually, the collagen powder supps are available in much less cost than Great Lakes. Wondering why they cost so much!

Here are a few that Netrition offers...
Source Naturals Arthred Hydrolyzed Collagen

NeoCell Super Collagen Powder

NOW UC-II

Doctor's Best Best Collagen Types 1 & 3

Bev may know which one of these would be the best? I am very interested in trying to make my own energy water and wonder if combining my Vit C energy supp with this might do the trick?
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:06 PM   #113
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Wow Sunday! Thank you a dozen times! I obviously was not using the right words when I ran searches. And, when I thought of DH's probably response if I told him I was buying a dehydrator so I could have bone broth with me at all times....hmmmm some thoughts should not be thunk.

Happy Dance for Nancy sipping bone broth on the Baltic!
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:22 PM   #114
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Now you can dance the night away and your joints will love you!
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:06 PM   #115
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Well... wow.

One (NOW UC) is made from chicken sternum cartilage
One (Super Collagen Powder) is made from Bovine cartilage
One (Arthred) is patented and approved as a food.
One (Best Collagen) doesn't say specifically.

I would like to know which is best as well.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:16 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Well... wow.

One (NOW UC) is made from chicken sternum cartilage
One (Super Collagen Powder) is made from Bovine cartilage
One (Arthred) is patented and approved as a food.
One (Best Collagen) doesn't say specifically.

I would like to know which is best as well.
Personally, I'd go with the one made from chicken sternum cartilage or bovine cartilage because I made my own bone broth from chicken or been bones.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:19 PM   #117
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Yes, I agree with Sven. I actually started reading up on NOW brand because it was undenatured which I like.

From NOW website~

-Undenatured Type II Collagen
-with Aquamin® Red Algae Minerals
As a dietary supplement, take 1 Vcap® daily at bedtime on an empty stomach. Consider taking this product in combination with NOW® Hyaluronic Acid, Celadrin® and Glucosamine/Chondroitin.


Quote:
Cartilage is one of the primary connective tissues of the body, providing flexibility and support to bone joints. Undenatured Type II Collagen is the principal structural protein in cartilage that is responsible for its tensile strength and toughness. Derived from chicken sternum cartilage, UC-II® consists of Undenatured (native) Type II Collagen that works with the immune system to support healthy joints and promote joint mobility and flexibility. UC-II®'s patent protected composition has demonstrated its efficacy in human clinical studies. NOW® UC-II® is enhanced with Aquamin® Red Algae Minerals, a natural source of calcium and over 70 trace minerals.*

Last edited by sunday; 03-10-2013 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:38 PM   #118
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I notice that the Natural Grocer, Whole Foods, & Sprouts all carry the NeoCell & Doctor's Best brands as well. I suspect they are of good quality and meet the standards that they require, so I wouldn't pass these up if you have the chance to pick them up. The great thing is, we know we can get this naturally with bb, but there will always be times that we all run out of our beloved bb. So, I count it as a good backup plan.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:13 PM   #119
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Thank you KeyTones for the suggestion to add Leeks to tater soup. I had never tried them before and I am in love! Today I sauteed asparagus, onions, leeks, & mushrooms in butter then added to my absolutely scrumptious sirloin steak. I felt very guilty because it was so good, that I left nothing on the plate.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:46 PM   #120
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It's been over a year since I've eaten any sort of soup. I remember the first thing I read about health is that canned soup is a black box and the perfect example of what not to eat so I forgot about it.

New project! I'd love to devise a low-cal morning soup that doesn't break fasting and sneaks in some potassium. So far I was thinking:
• 8 oz. stock
• tomato paste
• spinach
• celery
• sliced baby bellas
• oregano

Any gourmet suggestions?
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