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Old 01-17-2013, 08:20 AM   #181
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hi Sunday! Just popped in to see what's happening over here. Lots and lots and lots of info! Just a few comments and musings, if that's okay?

Re: JUDDD ~ I think JUDDD is fabulous! When I originally started it in Dec of 2010 my fasting glucose was 105. After 6 months, my next fasting was 95 and my Doctor was thrilled. This was after a loss of about 25-30lbs. My problem began when I couldn't sustain a DD anymore. That's all changed now.

Re: LC/NK~ now this is just me, so I'm not talking about anyone else. After NK for a few weeks my fasting glucose was 118! Naturally my Doctor was concerned, and did I tell her what I was doing? No way. Needless to say I dropped NK like a hot potato!

CO~
Loved the bullet proof coffee and I didn't realize until I stopped NK that the CO was causing the most hellacious hot flashes (day and night) ! I'm post-menopausal.

Like CICI, I've been so confused and overwhelmed by the amount of diets out there, by the sheer differences of opinions, and food groups and no LC, or no fat or no grains and no sugar....aye yay yay! It is mind numbing. boggling and any other word for confused. So I did what lots of people do and I joined WW for some sanity. After 8 days I lost a whopping 4 OUNCES. No kidding. But not one to throw in the towel I followed Sunday around and into a few "potato hack" threads. (Thanks Ouizoid)! I love potatoes, I can eat them without fat, no problem. Tuesday I tried a "potato" DD and it was good and easy. Yesterday I counted WW points (and went over, but I expected to do so). Today I'm on a potato DD. Tomorrow is my weigh in for WW. We'll see what happens there. It has to be more than 4 ounces, I hope.

Long story short (too late) I'm combining WW and JUDDD. I'm thrilled to be able to complete a DD! As for muscle loss, that's a little scary but I need to lose a lot of weight (50-90) and I'll bet I'm carrying extra muscle to support that weight. My sincere hope is a drop in fasting glucose, a drop in overall cholesterol, and some portion control and behavior modification from WW.

There has been some talk about carb-phobia and I believe I was one. Scared to eat sugar, scared to eat starch or sweet potatoes or rice. Confusing pure sugars and junk sugars with real food. I know from a year on JUDDD (and year off) that calories definitely count. I wasn't low carb JUDDD. I lost 40lbs in a year.

I think this PHD is on to something big. I hope it spreads.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:35 AM   #182
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I am so happy for you Blonde! In many ways, JUDDD & WW are the same.

So, after you began NK, about how long before you were tested? This was when your bs shot up? What that tells me and it is possible that the same may have been happening to me, I never had mine checked, that NK doesn't treat all people the same. I only tried it for a couple of months and realized I was spinning my wheels on losing. Even though PHD has high fat, it is much less, 65/20/15. And it is not dairy fat except for limited pasture butter and fermented yogurt, cheese.

I am very curious, I will have to make an appointment after doing this for one month and see where I stand with my BS. I am reading lots of good reports on his site from the readers who ask questions, so I had not thought about getting confirmation. Very good idea!
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:04 PM   #183
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I stopped at the book store today and browsed through the new addition of the book. It was like $30 so no way I could buy it. True to what is said on the site, there are only two pages addressing weight loss and reading through them, not much new. I think weight loss is not really their thing but I gleaned two weight loss precepts from it.

1) You can't lose weight healthily if your body is undernurished so eating for you at your goal weight is the healthy way to do it. We should not be eating less food than people of normal size.

2) To create a calorie deficit, keep carb and protein grams the same (that is your nurishment and bulk), and create the deficit within your fat grams.

Right about there, I was thinking, "so to lose weight, this becomes a low fat diet?" But he suggests choosing leaner meats and adding 2-4Tgood oil/butter to veggies for flavor so not too low fat apparently.

Blonde, Good luck to you. I did not have results on NK either unless you count a couple pound bounce up and back down over the holidays. Oddly, the day I said ENOUGH and threw in some vegetables, I dropped a pound. Now, as much as I love the idea of JUDDD, I am not managing a good DD more than once/week. I haven't had my BS checked in years and this may or may not play into that. Even a 16 hour fast is almost impossible but if you review some of the recent research relating specifically to women, the recommendation is more like 13-14 hours for women. Our hormones react differently to the fast than men. Mark Sisson's blog has a good article about this. That said, what I can do is 12 hours with nothing, 14 hours with the recommended broth, 16 hours with no protein. But then I HAVE TO EAT. So that is what I will try for now.

Today was grocery day and it was fun to throw some good carbs into the basket as well as some fermented foods and I must admit that recommended or not, I threw some beer into the basket and am enjoying the first in a few months as I type. My freezer/pantry is not completely switched over yet, but I've decided to use those shadow foods about once/week until they are gone or I defect.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:17 PM   #184
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Cici I was having NO weight loss with NK, I had my BS tested at about 5 weeks. The only thing I loved about NK was having "no appetite". When I started WW it all came flooding back and honestly for the first week I thought I was starving. I missed vegetables like crazy on NK and no matter what the truth may be, I couldn't wrap my head around all that FAT, at my age. I know what the facts "say" but I just can't bring myself to believe in it, especially after my lab work. I really like my Doctor and I couldn't even tell her what I was doing "dietwise" because I knew she would disapprove.

I'm happy w/potatoes for a DD at the moment. I'm happy with what I'm learning from WW...but still, I'm always interested in what others are doing. I definitely think that "whatever is working and makes you feel good" is the way.

Throughout all of this, I gave up gluten and for that I'm thankful.

Sunday, I've considered getting a blood glucose monitor.....

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Old 01-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #185
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If I had any doubts before, they were settled in the wee hours as I was in the throws of terrible leg cramps again. This has happened several times lately plus spasms on the sides of my rib cage and in my fingers. I am fairly certain I was terribly depleted of something and won't wait until my heart muscle joins the party.

Did some shopping yesterday. Shrimp fried rice for breakfast, cooked a nice free range organic hen and had some for lunch. The carcass is making bone broth now. Added some Morton lite to my kefer and had some olives. Plan on spinach and broth later. Will be working to build up my nutritional base first. Going to try to go by volume recommendations instead of logging calories while keeping a close watch on scale direction.

Blonde, I am also GF and know grains are at least one thing I will not go back to. We will find what works for us. I just know we will. Please keep posting. We have much in common to support each other in.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:44 AM   #186
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Cici, wow, it is weird how our body will speak to us and especially at the age we are in now. So excited that you are making bone broth. Remember the vinegar! Just don't want you to not get your nutrients from the bone. I almost forgot the first time.

I can't tell you how excited I am to feel the way I do. I use to hunger like nothing else all morning until I broke my fast. So, this one thing will make a big difference in my success with weight loss and JUDDD. There really is something to this being nutrient filled so that our body will have less hunger pangs. Even when fasted.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:36 PM   #187
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I have been making bone broth all my life but just to stretch the budget. Never added vinegar before. Will throw some in today. How long did it take for you to lose the morning hunger? THat is my main problem with fasting.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:49 PM   #188
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Sunday and cici. I am having an identical experience. Absolutely no mo running hunger IF I eat PHD food the rest of the day. So remarkable!
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #189
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Honestly, I have only just begun on this healthier plan. I just am excited to already notice this. See, I have only been drinking the broth for about 2 weeks, maybe a bit more. I just started reading the book after Christmas. Originally, when I started this thread, I read everything I could find online and watched all of Jaminet's videos.

One thing that I have noticed, and (would love to know if others have), but once I began eating fermented foods, bone broth & taters, I am feeling more youthful & a sense of wellbeing.

Today is my DD and I made a green smoothie with kale, spinach, blueberries, apple, orange, kefir, & coconut milk for lunch. It tasted so wonderful and truly satisfied me. 135 cals and I am planning on having another for dinner with guess what? bonebroth & tater.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:34 PM   #190
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ouiz, I am very glad that I decided to start eating taters! Still can't believe that taters can be so wonderful and especially with a bit of bb mixed into the mashed yukons.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:39 PM   #191
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Wow. For 135 you must just add a small amount of the various fruits. it does sound delicious. I do have a better sense of well being with the addition of carbs. Am looking forward to experiencing some of your other benefits. Youthfulness would be nice.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #192
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One more great DD idea! One big baked tater with a tbsp of butter, salt & pepper, fresh chopped chives, & a couple slices of bacon crumbled up on top. 325 cals

Oh my goodness, that sounds amazing. I will try this next DD.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #193
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Wow. For 135 you must just add a small amount of the various fruits. it does sound delicious. I do have a better sense of well being with the addition of carbs. Am looking forward to experiencing some of your other benefits. Youthfulness would be nice.
No, it is 270 cals, but I split it for 2 meals. So 135. I add 2 cups of ice to make it grow and 1/2 tsp of gluc thickens and creamy.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #194
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30 blueberries - 23
1/2 apple - 36
1 med orange - 62

I actually prefer it without the orange, it is naturally sweet and the orange makes it a little more sour.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:52 PM   #195
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Youthfulness would be nice.
Wish it made me feel young enough to go and clean out my closets & garage. I am ms. procrastinator lately. I would love to be organized and healthy.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:09 PM   #196
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Wish it made me feel young enough to go and clean out my closets & garage. I am ms. procrastinator lately. I would love to be organized and healthy.
Wish I lived close enough to offer my services. Am trying to start a new business doing just those things.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:14 PM   #197
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I believe you will be successful!

Cici, I know so many people that are just like me and have full lives working and trying to enjoy my dogs, who are now my children. I really don't have time for clearing clutter or organizing, unless, I take a few days off. I would pay for your service! Are you near OK?

I think you will be able to charge a good price as well. I have been asking DH, who is retired to help, but he is ADHD. It is almost worse to come home and see how he cleans. And if I try and tell him how to do it, oh Lordy, that starts the fussing and then he stews about it. Not worth it.

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Old 01-19-2013, 03:35 AM   #198
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Am loving bone broth here, too. It feels miraculously nourishing.
I still have no experience with fermented food. Can anybody suggest an introductory food that might easily available in a small, northern city?
(love this thread)
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:12 AM   #199
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Morning everyone!

Sunday it sounds as if we are married to the same man! ADHD and grumpy when called out. I sure appreciate you sending me around the threads for good info!!

Cici~ I had leg cramps doing NK and started taking magnesium along with 1000mg of C and 2000mg of D. It helped tremendously. I haven't had the problem with potatoes but I only do it one day in a row, that's probably why. As for having a sense of well-being, me too! I think the potatoes raise your seratonin levels. Also, for me, being able to have DD's again is so great! That makes me feel really good! Kind of light and peppy!

Ouiz~ really enjoying your potato hack!

Hi Kristin!
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:02 AM   #200
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I've gotta say--I feel like the PHD has changed my life, especially potatoes and bone broth. BB also seems to have some kind of anti anxiety properties for me. When I follow their recommendations, fasting til 11am is easy peasy, eating lower calories is effortless, and cravings are nil. It makes me so sad that I've struggled so much with diets in the past, feeling like such a failure when I binged after a down day or couldn't lose weight on VLC. Weight loss may not be rapid, but it is consistent, and not feeling deprived and feeling calm and happy are HUGE.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:35 AM   #201
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Ouiz~ I think consistent weight loss and feeling good while doing it is all any of us have ever wanted! I'm so happy that you've found your way! Sunday also seems thrilled with the results! It pays to be open minded about different modes of operation.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:47 AM   #202
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Sunday,
I so appreciate all the research you have shared with us. Posting your menus was extremely helpful to me. I am reading and trying to pull info together to come up with what I want to do. I am feeling really overwhelmed, I have to admit. This discussion is very helpful.

Thanks to all of you ladies who are posting your results and findings.

Right now I am incorporating more bone broth and fermented foods into my life. A few years ago when I was working with a natural healer, I was very conscientious about this and unfortunately I let it go over time. Making the bone broth is not my favorite thing to do. I am also trying the 16/8 fasting.

I see there is a brand of kefir called Nourish in the UK which I wish I could get here. I seem to have trouble finding anything other than sugary flavored ones. Kefir is one of my favorite ways to get cultured foods, but I don’t want it filled with sugar. I do eat yogurt with live cultures.

Kristin, you must have access to sauerkraut, right? I think that is available so many places, and if not you could make it. I buy Bubbie’s sauerkraut and pickles, but I used to make sauerkraut. I can get kimchee here that is already prepared and I learned to enjoy that. I also love the gingerade kombucha, but it sure is pricey! You probably are able to buy yogurt with live cultures and kefir, right? Those are good introductory cultured foods. I do swear by the sauerkraut though for my fermented food.

I am going to model some menus off of Sunday's examples and give it a try. Meanwhile, I will keep reading, reading. Thanks for your input ladies!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:02 AM   #203
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Thanks, Beverly. I've got some in the fridge!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #204
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Morning everyone!

Cici~ I had leg cramps doing NK and started taking magnesium along with 1000mg of C and 2000mg of D. It helped tremendously. I haven't had the problem with potatoes but I only do it one day in a row, that's probably why. As for having a sense of well-being, me too! I think the potatoes raise your seratonin levels. Also, for me, being able to have DD's again is so great! That makes me feel really good! Kind of light and peppy!
I think it was the NK that threw me over the edge. No veggies and I never remember to take vitamins until something goes wrong. I took an epsom salt soak last night, vitamin supplements, drank a sports drink and ate like my life depended on it yesterday. No cramps last night. Is there something about potatoes that might be a problem or are you just referring to the monofood approach to DDs?

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I've gotta say--I feel like the PHD has changed my life, especially potatoes and bone broth. BB also seems to have some kind of anti anxiety properties for me. When I follow their recommendations, fasting til 11am is easy peasy, eating lower calories is effortless, and cravings are nil. It makes me so sad that I've struggled so much with diets in the past, feeling like such a failure when I binged after a down day or couldn't lose weight on VLC. Weight loss may not be rapid, but it is consistent, and not feeling deprived and feeling calm and happy are HUGE.
Please, please, please let this change happen for me.

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Am loving bone broth here, too. It feels miraculously nourishing.
I still have no experience with fermented food. Can anybody suggest an introductory food that might easily available in a small, northern city?
(love this thread)
Kristen, I googled fermented foods as they are also a mystery to me. Was surprised how many common things are fermented including yogurt, cheese, coffee, chocolate and many more. However, specifically in the vegetable category it is a little more difficult to find in mass produced as they use vinegar more than the old lactofermenting process. Saurkraut might be a good bet. (Good German upbringing speaking) There is an easy DIY recipe which I want to try. Given that vinegar is a fermented product, I wonder if some good ACV would accomplish the same thing.

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I believe you will be successful!

Cici, I know so many people that are just like me and have full lives working and trying to enjoy my dogs, who are now my children. I really don't have time for clearing clutter or organizing, unless, I take a few days off. I would pay for your service! Are you near OK?

I think you will be able to charge a good price as well. I have been asking DH, who is retired to help, but he is ADHD. It is almost worse to come home and see how he cleans. And if I try and tell him how to do it, oh Lordy, that starts the fussing and then he stews about it. Not worth it.
Hoping against hope that you are right. I know many who could use the help but not as many willing to pay for it. I think that is kind of an old local mindset but changing with the generations.

So, back to PHD. Today has been curious in my attempt to not count/log but just go by the general recommendations. Found I cannot seem to stay away from the calculator and have roughed in the day. At least it is a good habit for a change. The other thing is it would have been a DD and it was so hard to put that mindset aside, even though I have never been very successful with DDs. I think I need to nutrient load for some period but not sure how long. I did spontaneously exercise for the length of a Zumba infomercial instead of sitting on my butt and watching it so would say I am feeling some unusual energy today. Just a couple days into this but am finding that if I eat all the veggies, there is barely room to get into trouble. Guess that is about it for now.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:24 AM   #205
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I buy either goat kefir or unsweetened lactose free kefir and add strawberry davincis syrup. Divine. I love kimchee and my health food store sells raw fermented kraut and other veggies. A bowl of taters, BB, and kimchee is my new addiction. One of those things that tastes a bit strange at first and then you find yourself craving it.

By the way, in terms of BB, on jaminets recommendation, I bought a large beef knucklebone and prepared it the PHD way--fantastic BB.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:25 AM   #206
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I've gotta say--I feel like the PHD has changed my life, especially potatoes and bone broth. BB also seems to have some kind of anti anxiety properties for me. When I follow their recommendations, fasting til 11am is easy peasy, eating lower calories is effortless, and cravings are nil. It makes me so sad that I've struggled so much with diets in the past, feeling like such a failure when I binged after a down day or couldn't lose weight on VLC. Weight loss may not be rapid, but it is consistent, and not feeling deprived and feeling calm and happy are HUGE.
Me too! I woke up to another solid lb down after good dd, so I am calling this week down by almost 3.6 lbs. I don't know if it could just be my body liking the longer fasting shorter eating window? Or if it is changing up to less protein??? I pray this continues.

Quote:
Blonde with a Rose;16205847]Morning everyone!

Sunday it sounds as if we are married to the same man! ADHD and grumpy when called out. I sure appreciate you sending me around the threads for good info!!
So glad you are enjoying this.



Quote:
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Am loving bone broth here, too. It feels miraculously nourishing.
I still have no experience with fermented food. Can anybody suggest an introductory food that might easily available in a small, northern city?
(love this thread)
I agree with Bev on the Bubbies. I picked up both sweet & dill pickles & sauerkraut. I don't think it has to be an every day thing, but since it is so low in calories and good for our gut, I decided to eat a bite every day. I also make my own salsas and bought the veggie culture starter, will let everyone know how this pans out.

Bev,

I buy the Lifeway Greek Style Kefir w/ no added sugars. It does have some carbs though, so if you are really trying to keep the carbs down, you may see if you can find one called Slim 6 by Lifeway, it is plain and lower carb. I just bought this kefir for the green smoothie and noticed that it is good to mid February, so I am thrilled.

Everyone~
My fav place to learn PHD recipes and lifestyle is from the following blogs, whom Paul links on his site. I love learning so much valuable info about PHD recipes and menus.

Tummyrumblr
The Daily Avocado
The 10 Minute Meal
Nourished Kitchen

Last edited by sunday; 01-19-2013 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:28 AM   #207
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Ouiz, Thanks for the info on goat kefir.

My soon to be daughter in law, is Korean and makes kimchee. I can't wait to learn from her. It is really not hard, but I have yet to make it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #208
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Ouiz, Did you ask the butcher specifically for the knucklebone? I am wanting to try this myself! I have pork ribs simmering in the crockpot and can't wait to use the rib bones for broth.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:36 AM   #209
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I did! And they are just huge! But I get so much bang fer the buck reusing them several times. I cook each batch in my crockpot for at least 24-36 hours, cool and fat skim the broth and then freeze in silicone cupcake holders. I pop each "cupcake" out into a freezer bag full of cupcakes. When I make my taters, first I nuke a cupcake of BB, add taters and kimchee and flavourings and then nuke again. Deeeelicious!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:42 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post


Kristen, I googled fermented foods as they are also a mystery to me. Was surprised how many common things are fermented including yogurt, cheese, coffee, chocolate and many more. However, specifically in the vegetable category it is a little more difficult to find in mass produced as they use vinegar more than the old lactofermenting process. Saurkraut might be a good bet. (Good German upbringing speaking) There is an easy DIY recipe which I want to try. Given that vinegar is a fermented product, I wonder if some good ACV would accomplish the same thing.



Hoping against hope that you are right. I know many who could use the help but not as many willing to pay for it. I think that is kind of an old local mindset but changing with the generations.

So, back to PHD. Today has been curious in my attempt to not count/log but just go by the general recommendations. Found I cannot seem to stay away from the calculator and have roughed in the day. At least it is a good habit for a change. The other thing is it would have been a DD and it was so hard to put that mindset aside, even though I have never been very successful with DDs. I think I need to nutrient load for some period but not sure how long. I did spontaneously exercise for the length of a Zumba infomercial instead of sitting on my butt and watching it so would say I am feeling some unusual energy today. Just a couple days into this but am finding that if I eat all the veggies, there is barely room to get into trouble. Guess that is about it for now.
Yes, you are right about the greek yogurt, kefir, and cheese that have been fermented. I may be overdoing the fermentation.

As far as PHD goes, I think you would be smart to not worry about staying in cals and loosely JUDDD, if you know what I mean. I did this half of December practically and did not get into trouble except for when we had cocktails/wine. I can't seem to stay away from salty foods after a couple of glasses. This was main reason to prohibit myself from the good glass of wine until I get the weight loss going strong.

Also, Zumba is the one program that I haven't tried yet, but think I would enjoy more than anything. I may just take a class although I may need to learn a bit before I go.
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