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Old 03-03-2013, 07:05 AM   #1201
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Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
Sven, thank you so much for taking the time to review and respond with such consideration to my question. I really appreciate it. I do think much the same, but the jury is still out for me. I believe in getting all the nutrients etc we need through whole natural foods. I love getting nourished through bone broth and all the fermented and cultured foods. I enjoy making and drinking my water kefir, and love my lacto-fermented veges,kimchi and sauerkraut etc. I just don't know if I am getting enough of what I need. When I eat a lot of calories,I feel I can get in the recommended foods the Jaminet's recommend.But when I am in weight loss mode, I know I do not. I am trying to cut back more on the fats as he recommends, but I don't get in 3 eggs and other things.

I think you make an excellent point, Beverly. I try to choose very healthy foods (well, when I'm not potato hacking), but I eat a pretty darn low level of calories (maybe averaging 1000 per day) when I do JUDDD. So it can be hard to fit in enough of what we need. That was one of the things that made me reluctant to follow PHD; I couldn't see the starches/carbs (with the exception of non-starchy vegetables) being all that nutritionally valuable and filling; non-essential fats at least seemed very filling and allowed me to stay or approach ketosis. I'll have to re-evaluate all of this when I finish this round of potato hacking.

I recently read about the L Reuteri in a magazine and for the life of me can't find the article. I zeroed in on it as it mentioned being helpful with weight loss and with all the gut issues I experience. It was my understanding this was harder to find in foods than some of the other probiotics. Wish I could find the article to reference it. I will continue to read more on this.

I did find this--
Clinical results in humans
Although L. reuteri occurs naturally in humans, it is not found in all individuals. Therefore, dietary supplementation is needed to introduce and maintain high levels of it in some people. Oral intake of L. reuteri has been shown to effectively colonize the intestine of healthy people; colonization begins rapidly within days of ingestion, although the levels in the body drop within several months after intake is stopped.[20] Furthermore, L. reuteri is found in breast milk,[21] and oral intake on the mother's part likewise increases the amount of L. reuteri present in her milk, and the likelihood that it will be transferred to the child's body.[22]
Once present in the body, L. reuteri benefits its host in a variety of ways, particularly by fighting off harmful infections and mediating the body's immune system.

Multiple studies have shown that obese people have different intestinal bacteria than slim people, and regardless of weight most people do not have the optimal balance of good and bad bacteria in their intestines. This imbalance can wreak havoc on your health in many ways, and yes, it may even contribute to overweight and/or difficulty in shedding excess weight.

Certain bacteria may cause low-grade inflammation in your body, contributing to obesity and difficulty in losing weight.
One such study found that the bifidobacteria counts taken from infants at the age of 6 months and 12 months were twice as high in healthy weight children as in those who became overweight, while S. Aureus levels were lower. (Interestingly, this finding may explain why breast-fed babies are at a lower risk of obesity, as bifidobacteria flourish in the guts of breast-fed babies.)
Two other studies found that obese people had about 20 percent more of a family of bacteria known as firmicutes, and almost 90 percent less of a bacteria called bacteroidetes than lean people.
Firmicutes help your body to extract calories from complex sugars and deposit those calories in fat.
When these microbes were transplanted into normal-weight mice, those mice started to gain twice as much fat. So this is one explanation for how the microflora in your gut may play a key role in weight management.
Probiotics have also been found to benefit metabolic syndrome, which often goes hand-in-hand with obesity. This makes sense since both are caused by a diet high in sugars and unhealthy fats, which leads to insulin resistance, fuels the growth of unhealthy bacteria, and packs on excess weight.
Interestingly, probiotics even appear beneficial in helping women lose weight after childbirth when taken from the first trimester through breastfeeding.


This is interesting-
Gut Health, Bacteria, and Obesity
This is really interesting stuff, and I hope there's a lot more research done on it, including some well-designed studies that see what the effect various interventions have on 1) changing the gut bacteria of obese people and 2) whether that results in their losing weight. I suppose that there won't be a lot of money going into this unless big pharma finds a way to patent microflora and sell it at a big profit.

My general sense is that it might benefit you to supplement with probiotics in pill form, both to heal gut issues and for weight loss, and it probably won't hurt. I haven't paid attention to the specifics of the probiotics that I've taken in the past; I ask the clerk for a recommendation for a good brand, and she tells me one that she likes. Have you located supplemental probiotics that are especially inclusive of particular families of microbacilli?
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:09 AM   #1202
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Svensaka - google Perfect Health Diet "The Trouble With Pork"
Thank you, Key Tones. I think that was the same series that got me to lay off sausage and pork liversausage, but I couldn't remember the final conclusion about how to cook pork--and select which pork elements--to minimize risk. For now, I think I'll just avoid pork unless presented with it socially or as an element in a restaurant food (e.g., bacon in a cobb salad, which is a standard for me to order when eating out).
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:11 AM   #1203
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Sunday!

Sorry, life has fit high-gear for me, I will be absent or intermittent most of March...and you wonderful people keep finding new information I need to study!

Hugs to everyone! I am with you in spirit!

Oh. Does anyone supplement with Milk Thistle (formerly known as Milkweed Thistle)? It is supposed to be really good for the liver.
Come back when you can!! I take milk thistle--the one I take is SILYMARIN - Milk Thistle Extract (100mg) . I take this due to the heavy duty medications I need to take for my Crohn's. I have no idea if it works or not, but hopefully my liver is happier. I don't take it for weight loss. This is an interesting piece about it.

The use of milk thistle for bronchitis persisted for many centuries; only in the fifteen hundreds it became known that milk thistle was an excellent detoxifier. It was also established that the seed had the most potent medicinal properties, and that the extract of crushed milk thistle seeds was effective in many cases of indigestion, liver problems and toxic liver damage. Later milk thistle was recommended as a remedy against gallstones, jaundice and spleen disorders.

Modern science has validated many of these medicinal uses. The active ingredients of milk thistle extract were identified in 1960. The main active ingredient, silibinin, was extracted in 1980, making higher doses more affordable. As potent antioxidants and anticarcinogens, milk thistle extract (silymarin) and silibinin are now attracting more and more attention as effective adjuvant therapy for various liver disorders, including cirrhosis and hepatitis C.

In Germany, where herbal products are required to be tested for effectiveness, milk thistle extract has been officially approved for the treatment of both chronic and acute liver disorders by the world-renowned Commission E. Some American alternative clinicians favor the standardized German product for the treatment of hepatitis and cirrhosis. Research on silibinin, however, seems to confirm that silibinin is approximately equivalent to silymarin in effectiveness.

The ability of milk thistle extract and silibinin to protect organs other than liver, especially the kidneys and the pancreas, against toxic and ischemic damage is now well documented. More recently, both silymarin and silibinin have also emerged as promising natural agents in the prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disorders, diabetes, and cancer, including breast and prostate cancer.

One exciting discovery is that milk thistle appears to be a "smart herb," able to enhance new cell growth where needed for repair, but arresting cell division in tumor tissue; likewise, it can enhance the activity of certain enzymes, but inhibit others. The flavonoids in milk thistle seem to have special affinity for Type II estrogen receptors. There is also emerging evidence that milk thistle extract is a COX-2 inhibitor-another example of its "smart," selective action. We are discovering more and more about the multiple benefits of this ancient healing herb.-- from LEF.org

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Old 03-03-2013, 08:26 AM   #1204
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
This is really interesting stuff, and I hope there's a lot more research done on it, including some well-designed studies that see what the effect various interventions have on 1) changing the gut bacteria of obese people and 2) whether that results in their losing weight. I suppose that there won't be a lot of money going into this unless big pharma finds a way to patent microflora and sell it at a big profit.

My general sense is that it might benefit you to supplement with probiotics in pill form, both to heal gut issues and for weight loss, and it probably won't hurt. I haven't paid attention to the specifics of the probiotics that I've taken in the past; I ask the clerk for a recommendation for a good brand, and she tells me one that she likes. Have you located supplemental probiotics that are especially inclusive of particular families of microbacilli?
The more I am reading about this, the more intrigued I am! How different bodies have different microbiomes is fascinating. I think all of this theory behind the fecal transplant is of great interest as well.

I have not found the probiotic I want to take yet. Some just have a few of the lactobacillus in them. I bought the Primadophilus Reuteri and have been using that for awhile. I am trying to find one that has some of these:

The Twelve Strains of Probiotic 12 | The Nature's Inner Health Blog

I am particularly interested in including- L. casei , Plantarum, B. infantis , B breve . If anyone finds a good source, please let me know.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:28 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
Thank you, Key Tones. I think that was the same series that got me to lay off sausage and pork liversausage, but I couldn't remember the final conclusion about how to cook pork--and select which pork elements--to minimize risk. For now, I think I'll just avoid pork unless presented with it socially or as an element in a restaurant food (e.g., bacon in a cobb salad, which is a standard for me to order when eating out).
That is my story too.The same series was a bit shocking to me. I do love ham and bacon. I am avoiding cooking it at home, but I have eaten it socially.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:13 AM   #1206
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Does everyone here eat potatoes? I tried to about 2 weeks ago (3 days in a row, 1 medium tater each day), and I'm still dealing with the weight gain from it. So for now, I'm sticking to Dr Cate Shanahan's version of the perfect health diet (she calls it 4 pillars): bone broths, fermented foods, some raw veggies each day, and organ meats; about 30 to 70 grams of carbs a day (Dr Cate rarely recommends carb levels higher than 70 gm a day); and plenty of good fats. She doesn't warn against pork products, and from reading that series, the biggest issues seem related to potential pathogens. I'm reasonably confident that good cooking probably reduces that risk, so while I'll skip the prosciutto and pork sausages, I won't cut pork entirely out.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:07 AM   #1207
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Hi, Tiva. I've been eating potatoes for the first time in over a year as part of a potato hack to get out of a stall, and that's not really part of the PHD. I gained 3 pounds on the scale, almost immediately, when I ate the potatoes; I think that was from retaining water that I had lost eating very low carb. Drinking loads of water with fresh sliced lemon helped me deal with the water and salt retention after eating the potatoes.

I like Cate Shanahan's book and recommendations. I still have to decide how much and whether I will incorporate "safe starches" into my diet after I lose more weight. Shanahan doesn't necessarily recommend avoiding all starches or eating very low carb, but I don't think she considers them necessary, either. Food rule no. 6 of "Food Rules" says, "Treat carbs as sugar--they are!" but continues "Eliminate food bars and keep all other carb sources including fruit to two or three servings a day, on average." She doesn't count nonstarchy vegetables as carbs but she does count fruit, potatoes, and rice as carbs.

Addendum: Sorry, I see that you already provided more precise information about Shanahan's recommendations about carbs. My bad for reading too fast. I've been keeping to under 30 net carbs/day before doing the potato hack, under what both Shanahan and PHD suggest.

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:11 AM   #1208
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Does everyone here eat potatoes? I tried to about 2 weeks ago (3 days in a row, 1 medium tater each day), and I'm still dealing with the weight gain from it. So for now, I'm sticking to Dr Cate Shanahan's version of the perfect health diet (she calls it 4 pillars): bone broths, fermented foods, some raw veggies each day, and organ meats; about 30 to 70 grams of carbs a day (Dr Cate rarely recommends carb levels higher than 70 gm a day); and plenty of good fats. She doesn't warn against pork products, and from reading that series, the biggest issues seem related to potential pathogens. I'm reasonably confident that good cooking probably reduces that risk, so while I'll skip the prosciutto and pork sausages, I won't cut pork entirely out.
Tiva, you are not the first to report this. I have seen many other Paleo folks who were low carbers say they have issues. Ray Cronise believes that some should introduce taters slowly on a daily basis before beginning the hack. Ouiz also cautions that some will gain weight from the start, but it will evenutally drop. I think I would have gained, but I was eating a small amount of potato every day before I did my first fast.

Bev, I watched some very interesting youtube videos about lifesaving changes occuring with fecal transplant. I am going to read all of your links when I get the opportunity. Gut health is so important to me and I believe with my German/Choctaw heritage, that it may be even more so important to know this info.

If you have time to read this last story that I posted here, it is so inspiring on what one family went throught to help heal their 3 year old's gut.

GAPS Diet, yes or no?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:22 AM   #1209
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sven, what does she mean by food bars? Just wanted clarification. Thanks!
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:22 AM   #1210
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Does everyone here eat potatoes? I tried to about 2 weeks ago (3 days in a row, 1 medium tater each day), and I'm still dealing with the weight gain from it. So for now, I'm sticking to Dr Cate Shanahan's version of the perfect health diet (she calls it 4 pillars): bone broths, fermented foods, some raw veggies each day, and organ meats; about 30 to 70 grams of carbs a day (Dr Cate rarely recommends carb levels higher than 70 gm a day); and plenty of good fats. She doesn't warn against pork products, and from reading that series, the biggest issues seem related to potential pathogens. I'm reasonably confident that good cooking probably reduces that risk, so while I'll skip the prosciutto and pork sausages, I won't cut pork entirely out.
Hmmm... this is interesting to me. I have been eating potatoes and not losing anything. I am going to cut back on them a bit. I can't handle doing the hack.
I do find Dr Cate's point about diet variety as something I want to read more about. My diet tends to get into a rut and what I settle into may end up lacking nutrient variety.
When she talks about how we are often eating the same short list of foods repeatedly and sending our metabolisms an unwavering (and very narrow) bandwidth signal of nutritional information. If you’re eating the same kinds of foods day in and day out week after week, then you’re continually filling your body’s nutrient stores with stuff it already has in abundance.
I think I have been doing this and really may have been doing this with the potatoes.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:24 AM   #1211
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Tiva, you are not the first to report this. I have seen many other Paleo folks who were low carbers say they have issues. Ray Cronise believes that some should introduce taters slowly on a daily basis before beginning the hack. Ouiz also cautions that some will gain weight from the start, but it will evenutally drop. I think I would have gained, but I was eating a small amount of potato every day before I did my first fast.

Bev, I watched some very interesting youtube videos about lifesaving changes occuring with fecal transplant. I am going to read all of your links when I get the opportunity. Gut health is so important to me and I believe with my German/Choctaw heritage, that it may be even more so important to know this info.

If you have time to read this last story that I posted here, it is so inspiring on what one family went throught to help heal their 3 year old's gut.


GAPS Diet, yes or no?
Yes and thanks for sharing that!! Very interesting info.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #1212
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sven, what does she mean by food bars? Just wanted clarification. Thanks!
I think she means things like energy bars like Larabars, Luna Bars, CLIF bars, Odwalla bars, etc. Things that are marketed with labels like "Whole Nutrition Bars for Women." I doubt she'd be a fan of Atkins bars, either. She'd advise eating real unpackaged food rather than packaged bar meal replacements.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #1213
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Beverly, I see that Peter Attia reports using the "Primal Flora" probiotic supplement from Mark Sisson's website. It has lactobacillus, bifidobacteria bifidus, and bacillus coagulens. Maybe not what you were looking for, but possibly more better than the thing I pick up randomly from the supplements section of the food co-op.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:23 AM   #1214
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Beverly, I see that Peter Attia reports using the "Primal Flora" probiotic supplement from Mark Sisson's website. It has lactobacillus, bifidobacteria bifidus, and bacillus coagulens. Maybe not what you were looking for, but possibly more better than the thing I pick up randomly from the supplements section of the food co-op.
Thank you!!! I will look into this.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:26 AM   #1215
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ConsumerLab has a report reviewing the content and effectiveness of various probiotic supplements. Does anyone have a membership to that?

Here's a summary of the findings that The Daily Beast published:

"The highest quality probiotics that ConsumerLab tested included Advocare Probiotic Restore, GNC Nature Brand Best Super Acidophilus, and Jarrow Formulas Jarro-Dophilus."

Livestrong has a story on "The Best-rated Probiotics." "Ultimate Flora" got the best rating.

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Old 03-03-2013, 12:10 PM   #1216
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ConsumerLab has a report reviewing the content and effectiveness of various probiotic supplements. Does anyone have a membership to that?

Here's a summary of the findings that The Daily Beast published:

"The highest quality probiotics that ConsumerLab tested included Advocare Probiotic Restore, GNC Nature Brand Best Super Acidophilus, and Jarrow Formulas Jarro-Dophilus."

Livestrong has a story on "The Best-rated Probiotics." "Ultimate Flora" got the best rating.
That info is very helpful!
I might try the Ultimate Flora. It has almost all of the strains I listed in the 12 above. I'll try it and there is a sale on the product. Probiotics are SO expensive, but if they make a difference in my health, I will buy them!

Ultimate Flora Adult 15 Billion
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #1217
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Did one of you say to freeze bone broth in muffin pan to store and take out as needed? I am doing this today. What a good idea!!!
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:28 PM   #1218
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Did one of you say to freeze bone broth in muffin pan to store and take out as needed? I am doing this today. What a good idea!!!
I didn't write that, but I do it and love it. Ice cube trays or muffin pans. I have a silicon muffin pan that works great.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:54 PM   #1219
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That was me! I use silicone muffin pans. I have bags of BB muffins in the freezer lol!
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:37 PM   #1220
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Coincidentally, the newsletter from my co-op has an article about probiotics. The person quoted suggests taking probiotics with prebiotics to help the gut bacteria in the probiotics multiply. Some prebiotics are berries, legumes, bananas, and leafy greens. There's a recommendation to make a smoothie with berries, banana, and yogurt, for example; presumably that would be a good time to swallow one's probiotic supplement.

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Old 03-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #1221
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Coincidentally, the newsletter from my co-op has an article about probiotics. The person quoted suggests taking probiotics with prebiotics to help the gut bacteria in the probiotics multiply. Some prebiotics are berries, legumes, bananas, and leafy greens. There's a recommendation to make a smoothie with berries, banana, and yogurt, for example; presumably that would be a good time to swallow one's probiotic supplement with.
Thanks Sven! I was just coming here to say that I saw a PHD poster quote this in answer to someone else. I am so glad to know. I have been drinking this green smoothie daily and some days, my stomach becomes distended. Almost like I ate a bunch of gluc. So, I came on here and asked if anyone else had issues with gluc blowing up the goat? I am barring myself from all nuts except for the 2 brazil nuts daily because I worry that it could be interfering with the process.
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #1222
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I don't use gluc, so I don't know about that. I know that some new food, such as starches when I hadn't been eating starches or new priobiotic foods, cause bloating and discomfort for me until my body gets used to them. Have you been having new foods in your green smoothies, in addition to the gluc? For me, the effect generally wears off by the third or fourth day of eating something.
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:15 PM   #1223
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Sunday!

Sorry, life has fit high-gear for me, I will be absent or intermittent most of March...and you wonderful people keep finding new information I need to study!

Hugs to everyone! I am with you in spirit!

Oh. Does anyone supplement with Milk Thistle (formerly known as Milkweed Thistle)? It is supposed to be really good for the liver.
Thank you for the kind words friends. I have so much stress right now and it is mostly personal, my dear mom, my kids, family, but it messes with my head and heart , because I take their pain personally.

I take milk thistle daily in combo with Dr. Christopher's Liver and Gallbladder Formula which includes Barberry or Oregon GrapeRoot, Wild Yam, Cramp Bark, Fennel Seed, Ginger Catnip and Peppermint. Somewhere, in my web research, I remember reading an article that our liver doesn't work optimally when we have taken prescription drugs and/or enjoyed wine. So when meno began, I decided this would be the best preventative/counteraction for the copious amounts of wine that I would enjoy during this special period of our lives.

Last edited by sunday; 03-03-2013 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:17 PM   #1224
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I don't use gluc, so I don't know about that. I know that some new food, such as starches when I hadn't been eating starches or new priobiotic foods, cause bloating and discomfort for me until my body gets used to them. Have you been having new foods in your green smoothies, in addition to the gluc? For me, the effect generally wears off by the third or fourth day of eating something.
Oops, I meant blowing up the gut. No, I have been adding a miniscule amount of gluc 1/4 tsp to my green smoothies to make them filling.
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:22 PM   #1225
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I think she means things like energy bars like Larabars, Luna Bars, CLIF bars, Odwalla bars, etc. Things that are marketed with labels like "Whole Nutrition Bars for Women." I doubt she'd be a fan of Atkins bars, either. She'd advise eating real unpackaged food rather than packaged bar meal replacements.
Okay, I don't eat bars but keep one for an emergency meal at the office. It is something that I really don't even desire. In fact, I think they mostly taste processed even though they are all whole foods.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:42 PM   #1226
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I don't think that eating a bar as an emergency meal is anything to worry about. Better that than a candy bar, right?

I'm sorry that you are facing so much stress, Sunday. Try to take care of yourself and to eat healthy food and get rest, if you can.

You might try leaving the gluc out of the smoothie and see if that makes any difference?
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:42 PM   #1227
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LC trains us to think of fiber as a "freebie" but considering the power and mystery of gut bugs it's hard to say for sure. I've noticed whole chia seeds give me very sour burps, but the ground chia used in baking is fine. I remember julian bread and sensato cereal making me a little off balance too.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:02 AM   #1228
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Hi Svenskamae! I do love how you 'catch up"! Your job sounds so stressful, particularly working without natural light around. I would recommend one of those "sun lights" at your desk. They are are supposed to be very helpful for people who suffer from SAD. (and people who don't get to see the sun due to long working hours)...

Sunday, so sorry for your family troubles. I hope you can check in and let us know how you are. I know what you mean about too much pc time. It can be difficult to stay linked all the time and lately I have gotten tired of hearing myself "think".

Hope all you PHuds have a great week!
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:35 PM   #1229
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Todays shopping coup included veal liver (not sure what I will do with it), pterostilbene. Have not found gluc except in capsule form. Is that what y'all are using?
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:50 PM   #1230
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Todays shopping coup included veal liver (not sure what I will do with it), pterostilbene. Have not found gluc except in capsule form. Is that what y'all are using?
1 capsule broken open and blended in your smoothie. Or you could just take a capsule with a full glass of water.

Here are excellent resources to learn from...

Glucomannan Recipes

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ucomannan.html

Ouiz OMM~
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...olate-omm.html
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