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Old 03-01-2013, 08:20 AM   #1171
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:22 AM   #1172
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Sven, thank you!! Thanks for going back post by post and giving such consideration to our questions and concerns. I really appreciate your responses and will go back through and read them more thoroughly. I am interested in the books you brought up!


Dear Sunday, My dear, I am ever so sorry you have some difficult family news to deal with. You are in my thoughts. We will miss you while you are away. Take care.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:52 AM   #1173
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Sven, So good to see you. YOu have certainly been busy through the night.

Sunday, So sorry about the news and the difficulties for your family. A prayer sent for whatever you need at this moment. Will miss you.

It has been very quiet around here this week and I have missed reading all the interesting posts. Am going to totter off to find some D3 supplement soon.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #1174
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We're both in the frozen North, Cici, and probably can both benefit from D3. I've been told by a doctor that the angle of the sun in northern states (e.g., Minnesota, Michigan) is such that we aren't getting Vitamin D in the winter, even if we go outside when the sun is out.

I think I remember reading that you have lost some weight recently? Congratulations! I know you were in a very frustrating stall. Good for you for not giving up!
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:47 PM   #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
Sven, thank you!! Thanks for going back post by post and giving such consideration to our questions and concerns. I really appreciate your responses and will go back through and read them more thoroughly. I am interested in the books you brought up!
Beverly, the author of "Deep Nutrition" is Catherine Shanahan, MD. She also has written a nice little book called "Food Rules: A Doctor's Guide to Healthy Eating." I think nearly all that she says there is consistent with the PHD.

You might also like Francis Marion Pottinger, Jr's book "Pottinger's Cats: A Study in Nutrition," which documents an experiment about how good or bad nutrition given to cats carries through to the health of not only their offspring but also the children of their offspring (the cats' grandkitties, I guess you could say).
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:50 PM   #1176
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:58 PM   #1177
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Marika, Cici, Sven, Keytones & Bev, Thank you for the hugs!

Just wanted to drop in and say that my sublingual D3 & K2 is NOW brand.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:39 AM   #1178
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:49 AM   #1179
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Sunday...sending Prayers and good thoughts for you to "get through" what you need to!

How is everyone doing with the Potato Hack?

I agree this thread is far too long... our own space would be wonderful
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:28 AM   #1180
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Thank you Hope & Kristin! I am going to request a spot for us.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:35 AM   #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Thank you Hope & Kristin! I am going to request a spot for us.
Thanks, Sunday, I think that's a great idea. Whenever we get our own spot, I have some ideas for thread for us, like:

Liver and other variety meats?

Recommended reading?

What's your eating window?

Which starches are you eating?

Probiotics?

And so many other interesting topics that I look forward to sharing information and experiences about with this great group ...

I hope that you are holding up well under the difficult family situation, Sunday. Thank you for taking the time to stop by.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:49 AM   #1182
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Thank you Hope & Kristin! I am going to request a spot for us.
Thank you Sunday. I hope you are holding up okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
Thanks, Sunday, I think that's a great idea. Whenever we get our own spot, I have some ideas for thread for us, like:

Liver and other variety meats?

Recommended reading?

What's your eating window?

Which starches are you eating?

Probiotics?

And so many other interesting topics that I look forward to sharing information and experiences about with this great group ...

I hope that you are holding up well under the difficult family situation, Sunday. Thank you for taking the time to stop by.
I really like this idea Sven. Again, thanks for the book suggestions. I love reading like that.

I was wondering if we could keep the potato hacking in a separate thread. It really does get confusing for me. It isn't really a part of PHD is it? I do remember reading something Paul said about it on his website, I think, and he said that the potato hack is effective for weight loss for a short period of time, but said something about eating the potatoes with milk or eggs, or organ meat, etc to make it more nourishing and to use intermittent fasting to provide the calorie restriction. Just a suggestion. There is so much to talk about with PHD topics and I get distracted by all the potato hacking.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:50 AM   #1183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
Thanks, Sunday, I think that's a great idea. Whenever we get our own spot, I have some ideas for thread for us, like:

Liver and other variety meats?

Recommended reading?

What's your eating window?

Which starches are you eating?

Probiotics?

And so many other interesting topics that I look forward to sharing information and experiences about with this great group ...

I hope that you are holding up well under the difficult family situation, Sunday. Thank you for taking the time to stop by.
I welcome said threads

There are so many wonderful elements to PHD.

I'm sure many are getting lost and frustrated at the length..well at least I am. But then I don't even know how to multi quote. Why can't I figure this out?
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:33 AM   #1184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
I was wondering if we could keep the potato hacking in a separate thread. It really does get confusing for me. It isn't really a part of PHD is it? I do remember reading something Paul said about it on his website, I think, and he said that the potato hack is effective for weight loss for a short period of time, but said something about eating the potatoes with milk or eggs, or organ meat, etc to make it more nourishing and to use intermittent fasting to provide the calorie restriction. Just a suggestion. There is so much to talk about with PHD topics and I get distracted by all the potato hacking.
I'm one of the people currently potato hacking, and I'm happy to keep my posts about to potato hacking to the potato hacking threads on JUDDD or to the challenges that I post to regularly. That's a good idea, Beverly.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #1185
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I just arranged for a (6 month) CSA share of twice a week deliveries of fresh organic veggies, free range duck eggs, wildflower bouquet, and goat's milk soap every 2 weeks, dropped off at my local food co-op.

I'm looking into purchasing a small home freezer for organic, grassfed only meats, and have found a couple of likely suppliers through Eat Wild. One sells custom orders of soup bones, liver, heart, tongue, and marrow bones, in lots of 15 pounds or more, 5 times a year. I'm really excited about that, especially since I read that they deliver to a Minneapolis location. I don't care about the roasts and the steaks (I can buy that at my local food co-op but rarely want to), but I'm thrilled with the grassfed only "odd bits" and the bones.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #1186
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sven, that sounds amazing. I am looking into a CSA. I have located several area turkey farms from the EAT Wild. Very interested in turkey bones.

Bev, Agree about the tater fast. Don't ever want to discourage or confuse anyone seeking the good PHD info. I wish the PHD site had it's own forum up and running. I think it could help all who need help navigate to the answers.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #1187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
I just arranged for a (6 month) CSA share of twice a week deliveries of fresh organic veggies, free range duck eggs, wildflower bouquet, and goat's milk soap every 2 weeks, dropped off at my local food co-op.

I'm looking into purchasing a small home freezer for organic, grassfed only meats, and have found a couple of likely suppliers through Eat Wild. One sells custom orders of soup bones, liver, heart, tongue, and marrow bones, in lots of 15 pounds or more, 5 times a year. I'm really excited about that, especially since I read that they deliver to a Minneapolis location. I don't care about the roasts and the steaks (I can buy that at my local food co-op but rarely want to), but I'm thrilled with the grassfed only "odd bits" and the bones.
That is great! So excited for you.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:13 PM   #1188
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Quote:
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sven, that sounds amazing. I am looking into a CSA. I have located several area turkey farms from the EAT Wild. Very interested in turkey bones.

Bev, Agree about the tater fast. Don't ever want to discourage or confuse anyone seeking the good PHD info. I wish the PHD site had it's own forum up and running. I think it could help all who need help navigate to the answers.
I hope that you are able to locate a CSA and turkey supplier that works for you, Sunday. I've done a veggie CSA some previous summers, and it definitely encouraged me to eat more vegetables and explore new healthy recipes. I bought a "family" size share (supposed to feed 4, weekly deliveries) one summer and ate through the veggies myself every week, so I was definitely getting plenty of veggies that summer.

I'm happy to see your picture in your avi today. It's good to be able to have an image (nice picture!) of someone I have come to like so well on-line. I need to see about getting a picture avi of myself one of these days.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #1189
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Sunday, love thr new pic. So nice to see your face.

I would love to see our own forum with PHD specific info seperate from the other fun and support .

I picked up the D3 and bought some resveratrol too. Since I cant fast, thought it might help.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:44 PM   #1190
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I think that the reseveratrol helps me with appetite control, Cici, and it certainly has lots of good health benefits. I hope that and the D3 work for you. Let us know if you can tell a difference taking them.

I take quite a few supplements, but I don't know that I can tell much difference from taking them or not, for the most part. I do think that I notice an effect with resverotrol and pterostilbene (limiting appetite), and possibly with biotin (terms of the strength and appearance of my nails and hair) and magnesium (for sleep and regularity). Some of the others I will probably drop when I finish the bottles.

Any other recommendations for supplements that have either been helpful or that folks here have decided to drop?
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
I just arranged for a (6 month) CSA share of twice a week deliveries of fresh organic veggies, free range duck eggs, wildflower bouquet, and goat's milk soap every 2 weeks, dropped off at my local food co-op.

I'm looking into purchasing a small home freezer for organic, grassfed only meats, and have found a couple of likely suppliers through Eat Wild. One sells custom orders of soup bones, liver, heart, tongue, and marrow bones, in lots of 15 pounds or more, 5 times a year. I'm really excited about that, especially since I read that they deliver to a Minneapolis location. I don't care about the roasts and the steaks (I can buy that at my local food co-op but rarely want to), but I'm thrilled with the grassfed only "odd bits" and the bones.
This is fantastic Sven! I wish I could afford an extra freezer. I can hardly fit much in my side by side refrigerator. Awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
sven, that sounds amazing. I am looking into a CSA. I have located several area turkey farms from the EAT Wild. Very interested in turkey bones.

Bev, Agree about the tater fast. Don't ever want to discourage or confuse anyone seeking the good PHD info. I wish the PHD site had it's own forum up and running. I think it could help all who need help navigate to the answers.
A separate place for PHD would be nice. Hope you are doing okay. It is great to see your lovely face again!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Sunday, love thr new pic. So nice to see your face.

I would love to see our own forum with PHD specific info seperate from the other fun and support .

I picked up the D3 and bought some resveratrol too. Since I cant fast, thought it might help.
You've tried the Pterostilbene , right? (chemically related to resveratrol ). I take both. I find that helpful with controlling appetite.

Sven, you mentioned probiotics in a previous post and I wonder if anyone is willing to help me sort this out.
Probiotics is of real interest to me right now. I am going to have to see what Paul says about them in supplement form. Possibly the fermented and cultured foods give us what we need, but I am interested in a particular one at the moment: Lactobacillus reuteri

Since I was wondering about breast fed versus bottle fed infants I came across info about breast fed babies receiving Lactobacillus reuteri in their mother's milk and how it reduces colic etc. I read enough benefits that I started adding it to my supplements about a month ago to see if it does anything for me. With intestinal disease, I am interested!

One study said...
[I]This raises the possibility that L. reuteri somehow improves the intestines' ability to absorb and process nutrients, and increase food conversion.[/I]

Researchers unravel how supplementing gut bacteria (microbiome) with probiotics can play a role in health and certain chronic diseases such as heart disease.

But one study was indicating that animals gained weight when given this. I am not sure they gained weight because they were malnourished before and the L-R helped heal that or what. The data is a bit confusing to me. The last thing I want to do is GAIN weight.
But I want the other benefits with improving allergies, decreasing LDL, improving immune system and gut healing... fighting H. pylori in the gut. Also improved dental health and reduces risk of UTI's. Any thoughts on taking this as an overweight woman?

The health benefits of Lactobacillus Reuteri (allergies bacteria strains gastrointestinal) - Mombu the Medicine Forum
Lactobacillus reuteri prevents diet-induced obesity... [PLoS One. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Obesity-associated gut microbiota is enriched in Lactobacillus reuteri and depleted in Bifidobacterium animalis and Methanobrevibacter smithii

Obesity-associated gut microbiota is enric... [Int J Obes (Lond). 2012] - PubMed - NCBI
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:02 PM   #1192
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I looked quickly at the articles that you linked to, Beverly, and it seems to me that the evidence is certainly conflicting. Also, the mechanisms behind the associations are not understood at this point; is a higher level of one bacillus in the gut in obese people or animals a marker for causality (bacillus--> obesity) or a marker for the relative absence of other another beneficial bacillus (bacillus A low, therefore bacillus B high, obesity from lack of bacillus A rather than presence of bacillus B)? I think there needs to be a lot more research to sort this out. And it seems evident that a given bacillus in the gut can have both negative and positive consequences. H pylori is implicated in stomach ulcers, but an absence of H pylori may have other negative consequences such as asthma. (Google "Micheal Specter Germs Are Us New Yorker").

So my tentative conclusion, for myself, is to eat traditional foods that generations of people have eaten and that contain probiotics as a natural preservative. That would include yogurt, kefir, kombucha, kimchi, sauerkraut, and other lacto-fermented vegetables. I've not yet started making such things from scratch, but I do buy them at my local co-op. If they were the cause of illness (including obesity), then my guess is that they wouldn't have been eaten and treasured by all sorts of traditional cuisines. I'm less confident about taking probiotic supplements, since I'm not sure that our bodies will use them in the same way as naturally fermented foods, and partly because the capsules may be relying on a narrower range of bacteria than the fermented foods.

I have read positive things about probiotic fermented foods in the books "Nourishing Traditions," "Naked Food," "Wild Fermentation," "Real Food: What to Eat and Why," "Food Rules: A Doctor's Guide to Healthy Eating," and "Practical Paleo," and since I think most of what those authors say makes sense, I will trust them on this issue. But that's something we all have to make our own judgment calls about.

What do you think?
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:28 PM   #1193
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I was unable to fi.d ptero...locally. The res... is terribly expensive but I quit smoking 2 weeks ago so am spending my vice money.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:22 PM   #1194
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Cici, WalGreens had Trimblu w/ pteropure 50 mg in it 13.99. Also, Swansons sells 50 mg pterostilbene for $7.

Bev, I will try to research this myself. It is fascinating to me.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:36 PM   #1195
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Quote:
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I'm happy to see your picture in your avi today. It's good to be able to have an image (nice picture!) of someone I have come to like so well on-line. I need to see about getting a picture avi of myself one of these days.
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Sunday, love thr new pic. So nice to see your face.

I picked up the D3 and bought some resveratrol too. Since I cant fast, thought it might help.
Cici, I am happy to see you are quitting and do know the feeling, because I struggled with it when I was much younger. I hope the supps help.
The Vit D helps with the blues also. I really have been suffering with that recently.

The photo is 3 years old and 15 lbs heavier, but it is the only one that made me happy today. Isn't it weird how we are?

Thank you for the kind words. I see my age now in all of my recent photos and it is something I want to embrace, but just not feeling it yet. I will get there.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #1196
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I looked quickly at the articles that you linked to, Beverly, and it seems to me that the evidence is certainly conflicting. Also, the mechanisms behind the associations are not understood at this point; is a higher level of one bacillus in the gut in obese people or animals a marker for causality (bacillus--> obesity) or a marker for the relative absence of other another beneficial bacillus (bacillus A low, therefore bacillus B high, obesity from lack of bacillus A rather than presence of bacillus B)? I think there needs to be a lot more research to sort this out. And it seems evident that a given bacillus in the gut can have both negative and positive consequences. H pylori is implicated in stomach ulcers, but an absence of H pylori may have other negative consequences such as asthma. (Google "Micheal Specter Germs Are Us New Yorker").

So my tentative conclusion, for myself, is to eat traditional foods that generations of people have eaten and that contain probiotics as a natural preservative. That would include yogurt, kefir, kombucha, kimchi, sauerkraut, and other lacto-fermented vegetables. I've not yet started making such things from scratch, but I do buy them at my local co-op. If they were the cause of illness (including obesity), then my guess is that they wouldn't have been eaten and treasured by all sorts of traditional cuisines. I'm less confident about taking probiotic supplements, since I'm not sure that our bodies will use them in the same way as naturally fermented foods, and partly because the capsules may be relying on a narrower range of bacteria than the fermented foods.

I have read positive things about probiotic fermented foods in the books "Nourishing Traditions," "Naked Food," "Wild Fermentation," "Real Food: What to Eat and Why," "Food Rules: A Doctor's Guide to Healthy Eating," and "Practical Paleo," and since I think most of what those authors say makes sense, I will trust them on this issue. But that's something we all have to make our own judgment calls about.

What do you think?
Sven, thank you so much for taking the time to review and respond with such consideration to my question. I really appreciate it. I do think much the same, but the jury is still out for me. I believe in getting all the nutrients etc we need through whole natural foods. I love getting nourished through bone broth and all the fermented and cultured foods. I enjoy making and drinking my water kefir, and love my lacto-fermented veges,kimchi and sauerkraut etc. I just don't know if I am getting enough of what I need. When I eat a lot of calories,I feel I can get in the recommended foods the Jaminet's recommend.But when I am in weight loss mode, I know I do not. I am trying to cut back more on the fats as he recommends, but I don't get in 3 eggs and other things.

I recently read about the L Reuteri in a magazine and for the life of me can't find the article. I zeroed in on it as it mentioned being helpful with weight loss and with all the gut issues I experience. It was my understanding this was harder to find in foods than some of the other probiotics. Wish I could find the article to reference it. I will continue to read more on this.

I did find this--
Clinical results in humans
Although L. reuteri occurs naturally in humans, it is not found in all individuals. Therefore, dietary supplementation is needed to introduce and maintain high levels of it in some people. Oral intake of L. reuteri has been shown to effectively colonize the intestine of healthy people; colonization begins rapidly within days of ingestion, although the levels in the body drop within several months after intake is stopped.[20] Furthermore, L. reuteri is found in breast milk,[21] and oral intake on the mother's part likewise increases the amount of L. reuteri present in her milk, and the likelihood that it will be transferred to the child's body.[22]
Once present in the body, L. reuteri benefits its host in a variety of ways, particularly by fighting off harmful infections and mediating the body's immune system.

Multiple studies have shown that obese people have different intestinal bacteria than slim people, and regardless of weight most people do not have the optimal balance of good and bad bacteria in their intestines. This imbalance can wreak havoc on your health in many ways, and yes, it may even contribute to overweight and/or difficulty in shedding excess weight.

Certain bacteria may cause low-grade inflammation in your body, contributing to obesity and difficulty in losing weight.
One such study found that the bifidobacteria counts taken from infants at the age of 6 months and 12 months were twice as high in healthy weight children as in those who became overweight, while S. Aureus levels were lower. (Interestingly, this finding may explain why breast-fed babies are at a lower risk of obesity, as bifidobacteria flourish in the guts of breast-fed babies.)
Two other studies found that obese people had about 20 percent more of a family of bacteria known as firmicutes, and almost 90 percent less of a bacteria called bacteroidetes than lean people.
Firmicutes help your body to extract calories from complex sugars and deposit those calories in fat.
When these microbes were transplanted into normal-weight mice, those mice started to gain twice as much fat. So this is one explanation for how the microflora in your gut may play a key role in weight management.
Probiotics have also been found to benefit metabolic syndrome, which often goes hand-in-hand with obesity. This makes sense since both are caused by a diet high in sugars and unhealthy fats, which leads to insulin resistance, fuels the growth of unhealthy bacteria, and packs on excess weight.
Interestingly, probiotics even appear beneficial in helping women lose weight after childbirth when taken from the first trimester through breastfeeding.


This is interesting-
http://robbwolf.com/2012/05/25/gut-health-obesity/


Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
I was unable to fi.d ptero...locally. The res... is terribly expensive but I quit smoking 2 weeks ago so am spending my vice money.
Awesome you quit smoking!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Cici, WalGreens had Trimblu w/ pteropure 50 mg in it 13.99. Also, Swansons sells 50 mg pterostilbene for $7.

Bev, I will try to research this myself. It is fascinating to me.
Thx Sunday.

Last edited by sungoddess; 03-02-2013 at 05:37 PM..
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:28 PM   #1197
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Thanks, Sunday. I will check Walgreens tomorrow.
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:04 AM   #1198
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Sunday!

Sorry, life has fit high-gear for me, I will be absent or intermittent most of March...and you wonderful people keep finding new information I need to study!

Hugs to everyone! I am with you in spirit!

Oh. Does anyone supplement with Milk Thistle (formerly known as Milkweed Thistle)? It is supposed to be really good for the liver.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:15 AM   #1199
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Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Sunday!

Sorry, life has fit high-gear for me, I will be absent or intermittent most of March...and you wonderful people keep finding new information I need to study!

Hugs to everyone! I am with you in spirit!

Oh. Does anyone supplement with Milk Thistle (formerly known as Milkweed Thistle)? It is supposed to be really good for the liver.
I take milk thistle. I don't know if it makes any difference to how I feel or to my weight loss, but I haven't had a bad reaction to it.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:51 AM   #1200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
I was unable to fi.d ptero...locally. The res... is terribly expensive but I quit smoking 2 weeks ago so am spending my vice money.
It's wonderful that you quit smoking, Cici! There's absolutely nothing that you could have done that would have been more important to preserving your health and living a long time. Congratulations, bravo, and huzzah!

I order ptero from Amazon, because the supplements section of my local food co-op doesn't carry it. But I mostly just shop in my own neighborhood on foot, so I haven't looked for it elsewhere.
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