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Old 02-26-2013, 07:15 PM   #1141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picklepete View Post
I think Ian Spreadbury's article on this is free to read now. I think he's really on to something about powder and liquid calories having a different digestive pathway that bypasses the normal satiety buttons and tampers with the brain-gut nerve connection.

If true it would explain some of the high-carb/healthy data points around the world. In 2013 America, virtually all of our "carb" is flour or fried potato so it's no mystery why VLC is at least a partial improvement.
Thanks I am going to go and try and find it. I am very interested!
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:52 PM   #1142
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Pete, I found it. This is so true about the gut. I have been drinking the liquid from my bubbies as well as coconut kefir & kombucha. It is so good for my digestion.

Did you try to add broth or greens with your taters? I am reading about how some people need to have something with it. While having only taters, I am having broth, not a lot, but a enough to help me taste the flavor.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:58 PM   #1143
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Did you try to add broth or greens with your taters?
No, I tried to keep the experiment "pure" so I'm sure electrolytes etc. were a mess. If I did it again I'd probably throw in some peppers for vitamin C, but I feel like it was the lack of eggs killing me.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:32 PM   #1144
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So my old meal timing was breakfast + dinner separated by 12 hours. I did this to avoid the logistics of getting a decent lunch but it seems like the smart money is on riding the overnight ketosis until 12pm~2pm so I surrendered and bought a bento box.

Safe starches + 6hr window = sushi rolls for lunch!
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:37 PM   #1145
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Originally Posted by picklepete View Post
So my old meal timing was breakfast + dinner separated by 12 hours. I did this to avoid the logistics of getting a decent lunch but it seems like the smart money is on riding the overnight ketosis until 12pm~2pm so I surrendered and bought a bento box.

Safe starches + 6hr window = sushi rolls for lunch!
Yum!! That looks delicious! I love the bento box.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:38 PM   #1146
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Very nice! I have not had sushi in a while. Let me know how you like the 16 hour fast. I do well as long as I eat the right foods. Which yours looks to be the right foods.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:19 PM   #1147
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Evidence from the US National Cancer Institute Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Results (SEER) database suggests that the incidence of advanced breast cancer in young women is increasing. Toxin related? Ages 25 to 39. Why so young?

JAMA Network | JAMA | Incidence of Breast Cancer With Distant Involvement Among Women in the United States, 1976 to 2009Incidence Trends of Breast Cancer

ETA: Conducted by researchers at the University of Washington, Seattle and St. Charles Health System in Bend, Ore., the study reveals a bizarre anomaly in cancer rates, which could have serious implications for women in this age group.

Quote:
“It’s a concern because of the poor survival of metastatic breast cancer compared to other stages,” lead author Dr. Rebecca Johnson, a pediatric oncologist at Seattle Children’s Hospital and University of Washington, “…Between patients who were diagnosed with (metastatic) disease and patients diagnosed with either regional or localized disease, the difference in survival is around 55 percent.”

Metastatic breast cancer, also called stage IV or distant disease, refers to the stage of breast cancer in which the disease has spread to distant organs – most notably the bone, the brain and the liver. While prognosis estimates for metastatic breast cancer have improved greatly over the years, the five-year survival rate for this stage of breast cancer is still fairly low at 23.8 percent, according to the National Cancer Institute.

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Old 02-28-2013, 04:24 PM   #1148
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Have you noticed a difference supplimenting D3? I think this will be my next addition. Not much sunshine around here in the winter.

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Old 02-28-2013, 05:09 PM   #1149
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Have you noticed a difference supplimenting D3? I think this will be my next addition. Not much sunshine around here in the winter.
Just adding my two cents here- I just wanted to say that out of all the supplements I have taken, D3 has had the most profound impact on my health. I used to get colds and flu and bronchitis all the time, and since bringing my D3 levels to a normal range, I have not gotten those kind of illnesses at all. It is one supplement where I noticed a remarkable difference in how I feel.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:28 PM   #1150
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Just adding my two cents here- I just wanted to say that out of all the supplements I have taken, D3 has had the most profound impact on my health. I used to get colds and flu and bronchitis all the time, and since bringing my D3 levels to a normal range, I have not gotten those kind of illnesses at all. It is one supplement where I noticed a remarkable difference in how I feel.
Interesting! How long has it been since you got to normal range?
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #1151
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Interesting! How long has it been since you got to normal range?
Three and a half years. It took me over a year to bring it into normal range. I even live in California!
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:35 PM   #1152
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I have no way to test but figure I must be lacking.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:41 PM   #1153
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Yes! Use Kerrygold butter, I have seen others use it on the PHD site and it is allowed by Paul.

Just my suggestion, feel free to ignore... I know HWC is quite yummy because I used to be an addict, but have you tried Coconut Cream? I have been using the So Delicious brand of Coconut Cream (refrigerated) on the suggestion of someone else here whom I can't remember? I have completely dropped the HWC and enjoy Coconut creamer w/ mct oil. It really has no coconut taste, delightfully creamy w/ 0 carbs and 10 cals per tbsp. I did this to keep cals low on DD, but noticed it worked in well and I am not mising the hwc.

BTW, Sven and all, you can learn a whole lot by reading the Q&A. I subscribe to it and get an email, so that way I can go back and read the ones that I am interested in.
Thank you, Sunday. I am trying to catch up on this thread now--lots of material to go through. I did try the So Delicious Coconut cream in coffee and tea and like it, so I feel that I do have an alternative if I decide to give up dairy on a trial basis or for good. The coconut creamer does have some sweetener (cane sugar, maybe), which I'm not thrilled about, since I'm trying to be 100 percent sweetener free, but it's probably a modest amount when one adds just a little to coffee or tea.

Currently, I'm on day 5 of a potato hack, which seems to have finally gotten my weight loss moving again--at least a bit--after 2 months of bouncing up and down the same 5 pounds. It took a while for my stomach to adjust to cold potatoes, but I'm doing better now than at the beginning. I'm hoping to get out of the "obese" weight range this spring, and then I may consider switching over to PHD with a narrow eating window rather than JUDDD. I feel good on lowcarb JUDDD, but the weight loss stopped, and it may not be the best thing for me, long term. Nancy, thanks for the great post on too much of a good thing from SIRTs.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:46 PM   #1154
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I need to go back and read through another 20 pages of this thread, but I wanted to share what I read recently with "The Silver Cloud Diet," which was written by Dr. Atkins' junior partner. He has people begin induction with a fat fast, basically, and stresses eating not just low carb but also organic, no sugar, grassfed meat, and little to no grain. His argument is that the food marketed in the U.S. has deteriorated in quality in the time since Dr. Atkins' death, and that we need to more aggressively seek out healthy and whole versions of food and limit more than just carb totals. Interesting to think that Dr. Atkins might have advised this sort of thing, had he lived longer (and might be appalled at the pseudo-food marketed under his name.) I can post more details about "Silver Cloud" if anyone is interested.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:55 PM   #1155
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Oh, I hope you will look at today's questions. Lots of very good info about resistant starch and blood sugar as well as other health questions. I hope to try this hi-maize after reading all of tater tots new posts.

I had to go back to page 5 to find the answer for your question about Paul's answer to longer fasting. I am so sorry! What does that tell you???? It tells me that this PHD thread has become too popular to just be a "thread". I hope we can have our own forum.
Has anyone suggested a separate forum for PHD to Dottie or other moderators? I know that the rule of thumb is to not start a separate group until interest has continued for 6 months, but that rule was relaxed due to high interest/volume of posts for the nutritional ketosis group in late 2012. Maybe the same could be done for PHD? (I apologize if someone has posted this same point later in this thread; I'm doing catch-up.)
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:00 PM   #1156
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svenskamae, hwc in my coffee has always been my #1 food preference (even over caramel with sea salt). I measure small amounts, but I start every day with some.

For several years I got sick eating coconut oil, a reaction I developed after eating it for years. Bone broth or something in this WOE has healed that...which is great because I believe in the MCTs and other oils in CO with the same intensity I believed in Tinkerbell before she became just another super-star.

These days I ingest hwc and, separately, CO to a total of about 100 - 150 calories every morning and seem to be maintaining the fast.
Thank you, Nancy! I'm glad to hear another affirmative on being able to have a little HWC outside the eating window and still maintain the benefits of fasting on PHD! Like you, I'd rather have very good coffee or very good tea with some HWC than a caramel with sea salt (and I love caramels, even though I haven't let myself eat any for years).
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #1157
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Here I'm (ineptly) re-quoting from a quote in a post of Sunday's:

QUOTE:
I found this fascinating – because it adds more evidence regarding the centrality of circadian rhythms in health – and exciting, because it shows that simple tactics can be therapeutic for circadian rhythm disorders.

In the hypothyroidism post, I suggested the following tactics for improving circadian rhythms:

Light entrainment: Get daytime sun exposure, and sleep in a totally darkened room.
Daytime feeding: Eat during daylight hours, so that food rhythms and light rhythms are in synch.
Intermittent fasting: Concentrate food intake during an 8-hour window during daylight hours, preferably the afternoon. A 16-hour fast leading to lower blood sugar and insulin levels, and the more intense hormonal response to food that results from concentration of daily calories into a short 8-hour time window, will accentuate the diurnal rhythm.
Adequate carb intake: Eat at least 400 “safe starch” carbohydrate calories daily during the afternoon feeding window. Relative to a very low-carb diet, this will increase daytime insulin release and, by increasing insulin sensitivity, may reduce fasting insulin levels. It will thus enhance diurnal insulin rhythm.

To these, we can add several more based on Seth’s findings:

Looking at human faces: If you work at a computer, keep a window up that cycles among photos of faces, or shows a video of a talk show; keep photos of your family near your screen.
Standing: Work at a standing desk or, failing that, get in the habit of standing on one leg rather than two.
Animal fat: Eat a diet high in animal fats.

These tactics cured Seth’s sleep disorder. Might these tactics also cure or greatly improve other circadian rhythm disorders – including hypothyroidism and psychiatric disorders like depression and bipolar disorder? Could looking at human faces help the obese lose weight and improve their lipid profiles?

I don’t know but I’d certainly give these techniques a try before pharmaceutical drugs. I believe these techniques deserve clinical testing as therapies for all diseases associated with disrupted circadian rhythms. I believe that they may be just as beneficial for the healthy: by improving immune function, they may delay aging and extend lifespan.

A few weeks ago, when I posted a video of Don Rumsfeld defending the use of a standing desk (the same video was later linked by John Durant and Mark Sisson), I brashly stated, “There are few single life adjustments more likely to improve your health than working at a standing desk.”
END QUOTE

I feel the need to vent, briefly.

I am in a privileged position in the workforce--I have a doctorate, I'm in a managerial job, I work in a well-funded office of a big university--and I can fit almost none of these recommendations into my life. The Director of the Center where I work says that they may let the full-time staff get standing desks "sometime in the next few years." I can't fit my main meal of the day into daylight hours, because it gets dark early when you live in the Northern U.S. and because I have to work late, and because I can keep only a little food at work, since I share refrigerator space with 120 other people. I can't get daylight light exposure for most of the day, because my office is below ground and I have to walk a couple of minutes to get within sight of a window. And, apart from my working very long hours, I know that my job situation is better than 95 percent of the work force.

I am prone to circadian rhythm disorder, but modern workplaces don't accomodate minimizing that. And people who have to work swing shifts or graveyard shifts are in a terrible position that they can do little about; at least I don't face that.

End of venting. Thanks.

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Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 PM   #1158
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I am a new member at LCF. I follow the PHD and have been lurking around in this thread for a while.

When I saw that Cici had mentioned Nori, I had to share my favorite way of eating Nori that I learned while I was doing a stint with an all-raw diet.

NORI WRAPS: Raw Nori Roll-ups - YouTube

Very easy and SO delicious!
Nice to meet you, BlueSojourn! Last night I found a recipe for shrimp salad in Nori rolls in the "I Breathe I'm Hungry" (mostly lowcarb) food blog. Yum! When I stop eating potatoes, potatoes, potatoes on a hack, I'm definitely going to try the both kinds of nori rolls; thanks for the helpful video link.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:03 PM   #1159
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Thanks to both of you! Very interested in learning more about this part of the PHD. I may listen to him as well. Also, Chris Kresser seems to align very closely to PHD and has written a book "Beyond Paleo". So interested to see that his blog today is about bone broth and lead toxicity. I am marking to read and will come back with any info that I can glean.
I looked for a Chris Kresser book called "Beyond Paleo" on Amazon and got nothing. I Googled and found a website to sign up for a 13 part e-mail series for free. Is the e-mail series the same as the book?
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:19 PM   #1160
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I have a question for you, especially those born in the 1950’s, or earlier--TIA for your responses.

The PHD discussion on eczema and omega 6/omega 3 was very interesting to me because I had a bad case of it growing up.

Upon discussion with my mother, she reminded me that I was not a breast fed baby, but drank a formula that was common in “my day”. She said she fed me bottles of evaporated milk mixed with Karo syrup. All I could think was OMG!!! I am not blaming my mom for my life long health situation, but it is very interesting.

I found this on the internet--
In the 40's during the war, when women went to work while men were away fighting, formula began to be more popular. The "formula" was evaporated milk, karo syrup (or another sweetener) and water that was boiled. Babies were given solid foods at about 3 weeks, including orange juice, for vitamins and put out in the sun on fair days to sunbathe.

Yes, many of that generation survived. And now we have heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, osteoporosis, are obese, have cavities and crooked teeth, and have multiple cancers to name just a few of the chronic conditions.

Does any one else know what they were fed as a baby? I am kind of interested, or am I, about how this type of formula impacted the health of people down the road.
I was fed infant formula (born in 1957), because my mother was physically unable to breast feed me. My older sister was breastfed. She has been naturally slim her entire life; I have struggled with weight and probably had insulin resistence my whole life.

I know that children born to Dutch women during the "famine" period in World War II had much higher rates of obesity than Dutch children born during times without food scarcity. So we have reason to believe that malnutrition in the womb is tied to later obesity, and the same may be true for getting formula rather than breastmilk, at least as formula was made decades ago.

I suggest the book "Deep Nutrition" for anyone interested in this sort of thing, including how mother's nutritional state affects children's health and development. And the author is a big fan of bone broth and would agree with the PHD, I'm sure.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:25 PM   #1161
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cici--I roast mine hot! 400 for about 40 minutes or until brown--
I also roast my bones for bone broth at 400 degrees for 35-40 minutes. At least 2 cookbooks with recipes for bone broth specified 400 degrees or higher.

Sorry to be posting things so out of order; I have a month's worth of posts to catch up on ...
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:31 PM   #1162
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Other facts to ponder: My eldest brother was born in 1948, he was given 'laudenum' (sp) syrup, rubbed on his gums for teething. Isn't that some sort of morphine/poppy derivative? We were all given whiskey w/ honey, lemon and hot water (hot toddys) when we were sick.
Amazing. Yes, laudenum is an opiate that used to be used as a sleep aid; one of Edith Wharton's heroine's suicides on an overdose of it. And it's what may be put in a Mickey Finn (knock out drops) in an old-fashioned detective story (probably what Sam Spade got in "The Maltese Falcon.")

In the 19th century, infants were given "Mother's Soothing Syrup" (with opiates) to keep them quiet. But I'm amazed that this would happen in 1948 for a teething child.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:15 PM   #1163
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I couldn't find any liverwurst that wasn't made with pork products. It is better than eating liver.
Could someone comment on eating or not eating pork? I have been avoiding pork liver (sadly, because I love liverwurst) and pork sausage, but I wonder about eating other types of pork. For example, my food co-op often has pork soup bones, and I might want to eat a pork chop every now and then. I remember reading something scary (I think it's in an old post on this thread) about avoiding pork liver to avoid zoomotic (sp?) hepatitis disease transmission, but I don't know other reasons to avoid pork, if one doesn't avoid it for religious reasons.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:35 PM   #1164
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I bought the uniliver grass fed beef liver pills and take 7 of them a day. I figure a week's worth probably adds up to a 1/4 lb liver as prescribed by the Jaminets. Best I can do!
The Paleo Mom's recipe blog has some recipes for "hidden" liver combined with other ingredients in meatloaf or meatballs, for those who don't like liver. I loooove liver and happily eat it straight.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:46 PM   #1165
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Question: if I don't eat the liver or organ meats, what am I missing out on. Sunday, you pointed out I can get the copper with chocolate, so what micronutrients am I missing out on. I tried to search it, but not seeing the answer I am looking for.

Organ meats are much better than plant foods for compounds like phospholipids. In particular, choline (and its phospholipid form phosphatidylcholine) is important for methylation status and epigenetic functioning – an important element in cancer prevention.

I take choline supplements and eat the egg yolks and cauliflower and almonds. Is it the high levels of Vit A found in liver for the most part? I think we are only supposed to add Vit A through food, so do you think that is the main thing? Same goes for the folic acid.
Here's a quote from a piece called "Why Everyone Should be Eating Organ Meat" from The Paleo Mom blog: "Organ meats are the most concentrated source of just about every nutrient, including important vitamins, minerals, healthy fats, and essential amino acids ... Compared to the muscle meat we are used to eating, organ meats are much more densely packed with just about every nutrient, including heavy doses of B vitamins, such as: B1, B2, B6, folic acid, and the very important vitamin B12. Organ meats are also loaded with minerals like phosphorus, iron, copper, magnesium, iodine, calcium, potassium, selenium, zinc, and manganese and provide the important fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E, and K. Organ meats are known to have some of the highest concentrations of naturally occurring Vitamin D of any food source. Organ meats contain high amounts of essential fatty acids, including arachidonic acid and the omega-3 fats EPA and DHA. Liver is known to be one of the most concentrated sources of Vitamin A of any foods. In addition to containing dozens of important vitamins and minerals, it is an outstanding source of Vitamin D ... The more organ meat in your diet, the better, especially if it is grass-fed."

It may not be that you can't get these nutrients from other sources, but rather that you will get them in more concentrated doses, more easily, in liver and other organ meats than in most other foods.

Paleo Mom, aka Sarah Ballantyne, has a new book called "The Paleo Approach: Reverse Autoimmune Disease and Heal Your Body."
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:59 PM   #1166
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I have been reading a few paleo blogs and some of have said to add Red Boat Vietnamese Fish Sauce for more of an asian flavor? It doesn't have any msg and is supposed to be the Asian secret to sweet taste.
I may have to try this next time.

Also, some bloggers say red wine for beef is a good add. But really, the more spices and herbs the best tasting.

So much good info here.

The Jade Institute | Bone Broth for Health Building: Nourishing the Liver and Kidneys

I see that she says that beef can be cooked for as little as 12 hours up to 72 hours. I don't know if I would have gelatin at a lesser than 30, but may try that next time?
I add a small can of tomato paste to the beef broth sometimes, and sometimes a glug of red wine, if I've got some sitting in the fridge, already opened. I almost always get solid gelatin from cooking 12 hours, so long as I use enough roasted bones.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:02 PM   #1167
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Okay, I feel much better! Amazing all that I learn from PHD site.

If you heat on the stove, don't boil the broth, but be very cautious not to use teflon. Use stainless steel.

However, microwave at the lower temp is perfectly safe. Don't over nuke.
Evidently, The Lancet study, "Aminoacid Isomerisation and Microwave Exposure", is not a formal peer-reviewed article, but is just a short letter to the editor.

The authors microwaved milk, and found that one of the proteins changed shape from L-proline to D-proline. This was a worry because D-proline, in large concentrations, is toxic to the kidney and liver. This letter was followed-up by health authorities around the world. The overall finding was that this was not relevant to home heating of milk, because the scientists had exposed the milk to much great levels of microwaves than are used in the home.

Microwaves damage food › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)
That's a relief (re microwaving broth). There is no way to heat up food at my workplace except in a microwave, and I'm normally at work 12 hours a day, sometimes longer, so that's the only way I can get hot bone broth through most of my awake hours.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:48 PM   #1168
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I am a far way away from my goal weight. I am doing only taters and did not take a day off (I had ONE meal off) I lost like 10 pounds in 5 days, which was great, but nothing in the 4 or 5 days since then.

I am at a huge calorie defecit and have a lot of weight to lose. I am not eating much sugar at all ( a little sugar, or honey in my tea/coffee)

Frustrating!

I seem to have lost body mass though. Im just pulling my hair out at the numbers.
From what I've observed on the low carb friends board in general and from what I've read, it's very common to have a period of the scale not moving after losing quite a lot quickly. I'd say that 10 pounds in 5 days is a lot quickly, more than I've ever lost in a week. Your body may simply need some time to adjust before it lets go of more weight (especially since it may be holding onto water as an adjustment).

I have stopped expecting weight loss to happen just because my calories ingested are below what my RMR should be. I've gone for a month eating nothing but 1 chef salad, no dressing, no bread, nothing else but water per day, every day and not lost weight, in the past. And that's when I was obese and had plenty of fat to lose. Yes, it's frustrating to eat very, very few calories and not lose, but it can happen. It's probably happened to quite a lot of people on this thread.

I suggest you eat no sugar/sweetener or fat until at least 4 hours since you last ate potatoes. At least you can control that, and it might help you lose again. Sorry you are so frustrated.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:46 AM   #1169
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So good to see you Sven and congrats on your success with taters.
I hope you find PHD as comfortable and a good fit as I have. If nothing else, it is teaching me more about all of the outside influences to our health which hopefully will lead me to best health ever.

I am on my last day of taters today and went off the fast last night due to some very difficult family news. It has put me in the dumps and I tossed & turned all night. Anyway, I only tell this because I may be missing for a bit, but I will try very hard to come by and post when I can. I need some time off the pc.

Sven, I would love to discuss circadian rhythm more because I think that you are correct about how our workplace causes issue. I want to recommend the sublingual Vit D & K2. Thank you Bev! I think I am getting close to 1,000 per day. That is what the instructions say and it is so much easier than taking pills/capsules.

Love reading everyone's PHD ideas.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:23 AM   #1170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
So good to see you Sven and congrats on your success with taters.
I hope you find PHD as comfortable and a good fit as I have. If nothing else, it is teaching me more about all of the outside influences to our health which hopefully will lead me to best health ever.

I am on my last day of taters today and went off the fast last night due to some very difficult family news. It has put me in the dumps and I tossed & turned all night. Anyway, I only tell this because I may be missing for a bit, but I will try very hard to come by and post when I can. I need some time off the pc.

Sven, I would love to discuss circadian rhythm more because I think that you are correct about how our workplace causes issue. I want to recommend the sublingual Vit D & K2. Thank you Bev! I think I am getting close to 1,000 per day. That is what the instructions say and it is so much easier than taking pills/capsules.

Love reading everyone's PHD ideas.
I'm sorry that you are having to deal with difficult family news, Sunday. I know we are all sending positive thoughts your way, and hope this resolves as well as possible soon.

Thank you for the suggestion about sublingual Vitamin D and K; I'll follow up on that.

I'd like to discuss the circadian rhythm issues further, too, to share ideas about what we can control, even though many things seem to be out of control in our workplaces.
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