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Old 02-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #901
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Originally Posted by Babsbabs View Post
Picked up the Perfect Health Diet book yesterday and am enjoying it! Great to have so much information put together in one place and wonderful to read the improvements that many of you are finding here.
Just had broth and potatoes after two hours of snowshoeing. If I died right now it'd be with a huge smile on my face.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:06 PM   #902
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Hope, Seabreezes is correct, if you will add a small amount of apple cider vinegar or lemon juice, it will help your minerals leach to the broth. Also, cook on lowest temp on pot and simmer for approx. 30 hours for beef. 24 hours for chicken.

KeyTones, Wait until you make some mashed taters with a bit of broth on top. It is to die for.
Thanks Ladies.

ACV has been added.

WOW...30 hours...ok

Got my book today...
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:13 PM   #903
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One last thing, Hope, did you roast your bone in the oven? It isn't an absolute, but for some reason w/ beef bones, roasting the bone in the oven can really bring out the flavor in beef. I only roasted my bone for 30 minues in the oven at 400 degrees. Then placed it in the crock pot for simmering. You can add your veggies and spices at the last couple of hours.

Kristin,
I am so envious! You are living the dream and bone broth. Yep, that is perfection!

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:15 PM   #904
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No...no roasting of the bones. Should I take them out and roast now? It's been on for about 5 hours?
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:29 PM   #905
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Hope, I want to warn you that it may not smell all that great, but the end product is going to be amazing! And if you like taters, well, you can see how much that I broth.



Does everyone know about the microwave and bone broth? I must have forgotten or did not pay attention. Sort of feel dumb, I just now read this on the Weston Price site and had not known this until now. I have been re-heating my broth in the microwave.

Quote:
Given the inconsistencies and hazards of gelatin manufacture, it is no wonder that studies were inconsistent. As for using gelatin today for therapeutic benefits, the highest quality product would come from making gelatin at home using skins, cartilage and bones from organic chicken or meat. As Dr. Pottenger was wont to say: "A big stock pot is the most important gift a bride could receive."

Whatever form of gelatin is used, it should never be cooked or reheated in the microwave. According to a letter published in The Lancet, the common practice of microwaving converts l-proline to d-proline. They write, "The conversion of trans to cis forms could be hazardous because when cis-amino acids are incorporated into peptides and proteins instead of their trans isomers, this can lead to structural, functional and immunological changes." They further note that "d-proline is neurotoxic and we have reported nephrotoxic and heptatotoxic effects of this compound." In other words, the gelatin in homemade broth confers wonderous benefits, but if you heat it in the microwave, it becomes toxic to the liver, kidneys and nervous system.

Another study suggested that the l-configuration and the proper molecular size are both essential for beneficial effects of l-proline upon memory and for the prevention of depression. There is no reason to think that proline is the only amino subject to this kind of destruction, and it is likely that other aminos would be similarly affected. The studies, however, were done on proline.
Concerned about possible excesses of the amino acids proline and glycine? Humans have shown a high tolerance for both proline and glycine with no ill effects. When people develop problems attributed to an excess of proline, it is the result of a genetic disorder, not the result of food or supplementation. In those few cases excess proline causes renal and central nervous system dysfunction.
Glycine excess also can be attributed to a genetic disorder and indicates a very rare genetic metabolism problem that can manifest as severe mental retardation. Although this occurs very rarely, it should be evaluated in any individual who is going to supplement with large doses in pill form.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:33 PM   #906
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No...no roasting of the bones. Should I take them out and roast now? It's been on for about 5 hours?
No worries. It is not too late at all! If you want to you sure can.

I just found out myself and decided to do it on my last couple of broths and did notice a deeper taste.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:49 PM   #907
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I have been reading a few paleo blogs and some of have said to add Red Boat Vietnamese Fish Sauce for more of an asian flavor? It doesn't have any msg and is supposed to be the Asian secret to sweet taste.
I may have to try this next time.

Also, some bloggers say red wine for beef is a good add. But really, the more spices and herbs the best tasting.

So much good info here.

The Jade Institute | Bone Broth for Health Building: Nourishing the Liver and Kidneys

I see that she says that beef can be cooked for as little as 12 hours up to 72 hours. I don't know if I would have gelatin at a lesser than 30, but may try that next time?
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:41 PM   #908
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Whoops. I always microwave mine!
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:09 PM   #909
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Great info on the microwave.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:12 PM   #910
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Somewhere Nancy is giggling.


Oh well, we know now.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:04 PM   #911
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Ooooooh, I remember reading in Nourishing Traditions not to use the microwave but semi-intentionally forgetting...it's just so danged convenient! It's 2013, where are the robot servants to take care of these things for us???

I better re-read my Sally Fallon and see what other inconvenient truths I've repressed! thanks for being the voice of micro-reason, tee hee...

--patty
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:24 PM   #912
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WAPF condemns microwaves but they kinda seem to be alone in that stance--most other ancestral writers consider those fears to be conjecture and will use microwaves until there's some clearer science.
/shrug
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:58 AM   #913
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Pete, I have to admit it put the fear in me! I will ask Dr. J, because he would have researched that one I bet.

I understand now why Nancy said she likes to drink hers cold like a consomme.

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Old 02-17-2013, 07:26 AM   #914
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Okay, I feel much better! Amazing all that I learn from PHD site.

If you heat on the stove, don't boil the broth, but be very cautious not to use teflon. Use stainless steel.

However, microwave at the lower temp is perfectly safe. Don't over nuke.
Evidently, The Lancet study, "Aminoacid Isomerisation and Microwave Exposure", is not a formal peer-reviewed article, but is just a short letter to the editor.

The authors microwaved milk, and found that one of the proteins changed shape from L-proline to D-proline. This was a worry because D-proline, in large concentrations, is toxic to the kidney and liver. This letter was followed-up by health authorities around the world. The overall finding was that this was not relevant to home heating of milk, because the scientists had exposed the milk to much great levels of microwaves than are used in the home.

Microwaves damage food › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science (ABC Science)
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:32 AM   #915
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I do think microwaves probably aren't the best method of heating and some damage to the nutrients will occur, but we live in a time of necessity and sometimes we are at places hotels, office, etc. that do not have any means to re-heat. Most definitely, DO NOT stand right in front of the nuker watching the food heat, like my hubby does.

Dr. Mercola is anti-microwave...
Quote:

"Even when the microwave oven is working correctly, the microwave levels within the kitchen are likely to be significantly higher than those from any nearby cellular phone base-stations. Remember also that microwaves will travel through walls if the microwave oven is against an inside wall."

Powerwatch also states that we don't really know if the current regulations about leakage are truly safe and recommends ovens be checked at least annually, since microwave emissions can change with normal use.

You might also consider purchasing a $20 testing device that allows you to check the radiation in your home.

Make sure that, if you are going to use your microwave for cleaning sponges or for any use at all, regularly examine the door and hinges to make sure they are sealing properly. If the door doesn't close correctly, or if it's warped, bent, or otherwise damaged, don't use it at all!

But even if there's nothing wrong with your microwave, keep in mind that standing a foot away from it while it's running can expose you to upwards of 400 milliGauss, and a mere 4 milliGauss has been firmly linked to leukemia. It would certainly be wise to avoid letting your children stand near the microwave when it's running, and avoid it yourself as much as possible—especially if you're pregnant. Also, since your eyes are known to be particularly susceptible to microwave radiation (high microwave exposures are known to cause cataracts), I recommend stepping away from your microwave while it's in use.

New Study Confirms Microwaves Affect Your Heart

A recent study examining the effects 2.4 GHz radiation (which is the frequency of radiation emitted by Wifi routers and microwave ovens) on the heart was just completed. The study found "unequivocal evidence" that microwave frequency radiation affects the heart at non-thermal levels that are well below federal safety guidelines, according to Dr. Magda Havas of Trent University4.

Dr. Havas says:

"This is the first study that documents immediate and dramatic changes in both heart rate and heart rate variability caused by an approved device that generates microwaves at levels well below (0.3 percent) federal guidelines in both Canada and the United States."

No longer can skeptics claim that microwaves produce no immediate biological effects at ordinary household levels!

The study will be appearing in a peer-reviewed journal sometime during the summer of 2010. If you are experiencing rapid or irregular heartbeat, pain or pressure in your chest, you will want to visit your physician and share this video with him or her (second video on this page).

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Old 02-17-2013, 08:52 AM   #916
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It is amazing any of us are alive given the health risks of living.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:00 AM   #917
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It is amazing any of us are alive given the health risks of living.
I agree. I am still a freak about the cell. I hold it in my hand or tell people I will call back on the landline.

I called my daughter this morning to remind her to keep my grand babies away from the dang microwave. She has a small kitchen and she said, "Mom, I know about this, but there are times when I am holding the baby and reheating his meal." I had a meltdown.

She really does the best she can and I told her to make it a game with the two boys and tell them at re-heat time they have to go hide. Which the two will love for about 2 trials.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:12 AM   #918
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I have not observed any precautions to now. But kind of intuitively, I knew I didn't want to put the BB in there. I use it to reheat coffee or thaw meat more than anything else.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:36 AM   #919
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Originally Posted by divinemsm54 View Post
Ooooooh, I remember reading in Nourishing Traditions not to use the microwave but semi-intentionally forgetting...it's just so danged convenient! It's 2013, where are the robot servants to take care of these things for us???

I better re-read my Sally Fallon and see what other inconvenient truths I've repressed! thanks for being the voice of micro-reason, tee hee...

--patty
I need to pick up my Nourishing Traditions again and glean some more good info.

Funny thing, I remember reading this and at the time was religious about not re-heating and somehow I did repress this knowledge.
After reading this yesterday, I decided to do my best to never re-heat my veggies or bone broth in microwave, but hot cocoa or coffee, I am certain I will, but will slide into the family room while DH stands 20 inches away & stares.

All I could think of yesterday after reading this info, was all of the precious broth that simmered 30 hours, the time to drive to butcher for bones, or have delivered via FedEx , and then I decide to enjoy my rather expensive broth by heating and BLAM ruined it by nuking.

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Old 02-17-2013, 11:34 AM   #920
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Has anyone ever tried adding Fennel to their broth? I am making the most delish batch right now and thought about adding it with the celery, garlic, carrots, rosemary & herbs. What do ya think?
Fennel has so many health benefits. I love the taste in certain salads and meat dishes, so I am thinking it would be fine.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:48 AM   #921
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Dont know about health benefits. I found that I like to make the big batch of broth quite plain, then vary the servings by adding vegs when reheating a serving.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:08 PM   #922
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It is amazing any of us are alive given the health risks of living.
Yes, and living is quite strongly correlated with dying.

Thanks for shedding some light on the microwave question, all!
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #923
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The Bone Broth has almost been on for 30 hours. What do I do with it now?

Let it come to room temp then skim the top?

What about the meat that came off the bones? Leave that in there? The veggies too?

Yup this is a new experience?
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:59 PM   #924
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You can go ahead and make yourself a cup and enjoy the wonderful meat. Add your fav spices. I am anxious to hear how it turned out!

Then strain the broth through a pasta sieve to catch all of the pieces of bone/eggshell. Pour the broth in either mason jars or rubbermaid containers and it will stay good for a week. I freeze up the portion that I will not be able to drink and keep it back for different meals. If you have free ice trays, you can pour in ice trays and freeze then put the cubes in a ziplock freezer bag to use one at a time when needed.

The fat will rise to the top when it is cooled in the fridge. Then you can skim if you would like. I actually keep the fat, because I like a bit in my broth.

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:12 PM   #925
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Thanks Sunday!

I have been reading my book today. Takeaway - I really need to up my safe starches and root vegetables .

What to make, what to make?
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:28 PM   #926
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Thanks Sunday!

I have been reading my book today. Takeaway - I really need to up my safe starches and root vegetables .

What to make, what to make?
Hey Hope, if you really want to get excited about safe starches, read up on Tater Tot's posts on Q&A on the PHD site. I find myself so enthused to read all of the research that he has done. Also another very good one is hypothermics.com and follow Ray Cronise. You will need to sign up to read his research, but it is truly interesting. One guy has lost 90lbs of fat in 140 days. He was morbidly obese, but the thing is he did the tater hack off and on for that period.

Quote from Cronise~

Quote:
For example, a close friend that was type 2 diabetic for three years with fasting blood sugar >200 mg/dL on insulin a little over 10 days ago switched to a simple starch- only diet (rice & potato only). Within 4 days fasting blood sugar was down to 119 without insulin. Blood pressure was 158/98 and is down to 127/72.

Starch (in the absence of dietary fat) is not sugar, nor does it act like “sugar.” as well blood GLUCOSE is not the problem -it’s a symptom of dietary issues.

Do a self test. I too was surprised. I’m not any more. This is why I believe the “protein carb and fat – speak” is irrelevant when it comes to food. The better way to think about food is to forget about those words.
I am enjoying the broth on taters daily.

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Old 02-17-2013, 09:46 PM   #927
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Happy President's day eve, fellow PHDers! I decided to do a couple of days of potatoes to get myself solidly in the 170s so I'm not popping back and forth over that benchmark and making myself crazy(er). I seem to remember something about Jaminet recommending not eating the skins, is that correct? Does anybody know why, if that's what he recommends?

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

--patty
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:14 PM   #928
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Toxins in the skins. I really hate this, because I absolutely adore tater skins.

I think it talks about this here.

Whole Health Source: Paleolithic Diet Clinical Trials Part IV

Whole Health Source: Potatoes and Human Health, Part II
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:16 PM   #929
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From Perfect Health...

Quote:
Everything You Might Want to Know About the Potato
Posted by Paul Jaminet on October 4, 2010 Leave a comment (21) Go to comments

The best diet-and-health blog on the Web may be Stephan Guyenet’s Whole Health Source. Those who have read the footnotes of our book may have noticed that he’s our most cited blogger.

Stephan has done a series of posts on the potato, one of our “safe starches” and recommended foods. His latest and final installment has some neat information. His whole post deserves reading, but I want to highlight two points here.
Yes, Potatoes are a Safe Starch

Diseases like obesity and diabetes are primarily caused by toxic foods. Diabetes and obesity became common after vegetable oil and fructose consumption soared in the 1970s – not surprisingly, since omega-6 fats and sugar are extremely effective at inducing these diseases in laboratory animals.

Diabetes and obesity rates may serve as rough indicators of the toxicity of a people’s staple foods.

It is good to see, therefore, that potato-eating cultures have very low rates of diabetes and obesity. Here is Stephan’s graph comparing diabetes rates among the Aymara, an Andean potato-dependent tribe, and Americans:

Stephan notes that the Irish were considered a healthy and attractive people during the period when they obtained 87% of calories from the potato, and quotes Adam Smith’s remark that potatoes were “peculiarly suitable to the health of the human constitution.”

At this blog, we never disagree with Adam Smith.
Potatoes provide adequate protein

Stephan cites a curious study in which a Dr. M. Hindhede kept three men on a potatoes-and-margarine diet for a full year and required them to do increasingly arduous labor. After a year of this potato-and-fat diet, the men emerged well-muscled:

In his book, Dr. Hindhede shows a photograph of Mr. Madsen taken on December 21st, 1912, after he had lived for almost a year entirely on potatoes. This photograph shows a strong, solid, athletic-looking figure, all of whose muscles are well-developed, and without excess fat. …Hindhede had him examined by five physicians, including a diagnostician, a specialist in gastric and intestinal diseases, an X-ray specialist, and a blood specialist. They all pronounced him to be in a state of perfect health.

About 10% of the calories in potato are from protein, and since the margarine may have accounted for 50% of calories and was protein-free, the men’s protein intake was around 5% of calories. The experiment is consistent with our view that protein intake of 200 calories per day is sufficient to maintain excellent health and build muscle.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:22 PM   #930
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Paul advises that he eats the Sweet Potato skin and also the skin on the thin skin taters (Yukon?), I am not sure what fingerlings would be?

Question~
Quote:
Jake October 4, 2010 at 8:43 pm

I assume that most of the toxins in potatoes are in the skin so we should not eat potato skins.

Right?
Reply
Paul Jaminet October 4, 2010 at 8:53 pm

Yes, most of the toxins are in the 1 mm in and next to the skin.

It’s probably prudent to peel the potatoes. This also helps you see discolored flesh.

We usually get small potatoes, like fingerlings, which have thin skins. Prudent or not, we often eat them with the skins. I do prune away any places where the skin was broken, and if the flesh is visibly discolored I discard the potato.

Bigger potatoes we peel. But sweet potatoes we usually eat the skin.

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