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Old 02-14-2013, 03:05 AM   #841
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Patty, I am still reading the book so cannot answer for PHD. But, throughout JUDDD I treated 'fasting' as meaning eating fewer calories than it took to digest the food eaten. For me that worked. I think that is why the BUDDDs who eat 30 or so calories every hour remain in a fasted state - it probably takes more than 30 calories to process the food. I encourage you to experiment with very low cal foods to buffer the NSAIDs.

Deep SIGH! Last night I let DH talk me into trying pizza at a popular wood fire grill in town. It tasted really, really good. I totally enjoyed the date night aspect. Home, an hour later I was dog-sick and today my whole body still aches, my tummy is in revolt, and my sinuses are, shall we say, not happy.

Final test of what I already knew: the Drs Jaminet are right, wheat and I need to say 'fare thee well'.
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Still at goal 2/6/13
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I did not "lose" weight. I evicted it. It is gone and it ain't coming back!

JUDDD cares about calories. JUDDD does not care what you eat. Your body probably does.

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Old 02-14-2013, 06:25 AM   #842
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And, Sunday, let me be the first to assure you, once you get the toxins out of your system for awhile, they hit like a sledge hammer when you stupidly reintroduce them.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:18 AM   #843
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Originally Posted by divinemsm54 View Post
I'd be fine with keeping PHD foods and maintaining the JUDDD alternating days with calories to get my fasting benefits---is anybody doing that? (also I was doing the 8 hour window before Juddding and didn't lose an ounce, averaging 1200-1400 cals a day...)

I await your collective expertise!
--patty
I actually began PHD doing this! It is completely workable as long as you have a bit higher DD. For example, I felt my body needed the nutrition that I would derive from the added cals which were about 600 rather than 300 cals of just broth, meat & veggies. Now, I am doing a very relaxed JUDDD within the 8 hour window. No more counting. I was so weary of counting each and everything I ate. Especially PHD foods which are not high calorie. Now, if I was still eating junk food and fast food, I would stick with logging each & every item eaten.

I suspect now that my cals are avg about 1,000 - 1,250 daily. The key is I only eat twice per day and no snacks because I truly don't have the desire. I will start weighing regularly so that I can report back where this is taking me. I know I haven't lost a significant amount but can safely say I haven't gained or STS as had happened to me with strict JUDDD. I was becoming annoyed that my good clean rotations were literally doing nothing and I know full well that I have lots more to go.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:19 AM   #844
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Patty~ Is it possible to take your N-said at bedtime or at the beginning of your eating window? That would definitely make it easier. If it's a 1 in 24 hours pill perhaps you could switch the time?

Sunday~ thanks for the Olive info. Mine are giant green beauties, stuffed with garlic and jalapeno!! So sorry for the pizza/wheat slam today! I totally get it, I love wheat...it hates me. On a bright note, if you simple must have pizza...Dominos has a new gluten free crust. I haven't tried it, so I can't review it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:24 AM   #845
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Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
And, Sunday, let me be the first to assure you, once you get the toxins out of your system for awhile, they hit like a sledge hammer when you stupidly reintroduce them.
This is exactly what I experienced! What amazes me is that my tummy was humming along with all of the goodness PHD allows and then BAM wheat was ingested and I bloated like a balloon. I can't explain it any better than you do, but it sure does help to know.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:23 AM   #846
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Happy Valentine's day everyone! Hope your day is filled with love, wine, and chocolate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Patty, I am still reading the book so cannot answer for PHD. But, throughout JUDDD I treated 'fasting' as meaning eating fewer calories than it took to digest the food eaten. For me that worked. I think that is why the BUDDDs who eat 30 or so calories every hour remain in a fasted state - it probably takes more than 30 calories to process the food. I encourage you to experiment with very low cal foods to buffer the NSAIDs.

Deep SIGH! Last night I let DH talk me into trying pizza at a popular wood fire grill in town. It tasted really, really good. I totally enjoyed the date night aspect. Home, an hour later I was dog-sick and today my whole body still aches, my tummy is in revolt, and my sinuses are, shall we say, not happy.

Final test of what I already knew: the Drs Jaminet are right, wheat and I need to say 'fare thee well'.
Oh no.... boo hoo. I am a bit pleased that so many restaurants here are doing gluten free options. Sometimes when you go out to eat, it can be very hard. Our BJ's Brewery has a delicious gluten free pizza and beer that upon occasion I allow myself to share that with a friend who is a pizza fiend.

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And, Sunday, let me be the first to assure you, once you get the toxins out of your system for awhile, they hit like a sledge hammer when you stupidly reintroduce them.
This is so true. It points it out loud and clear that the body does not want that stuff. I immediately get congested and start sneezing now.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:35 AM   #847
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Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Seems like I read in one place that Jaminet is doing 2 16 hour fasts/week but then found this on his website.

Quote:
I have been practicing protein restriction for several years, eating coconut oil and safe starches for several years, and practicing daily intermittent fasting for over six months. I drink tea or lemon-flavored water through the morning, and on most days eat only between 2 pm and 8 pm. If I snack during the fast it is usually either a piece of dark chocolate or some coconut oil.

I sometimes go many days eating relatively little, then eat a lot for a few days. Physical activity – sports, intense exercise, running – increases my appetite noticeably. Regardless, I never feel hungry. It is easy to complete the daily fast: some tea, sometimes with coconut oil or dark chocolate, is enough. I now do total fasting on religious fast days – for instance, I now do a 64-hour fast from Holy Thursday through Easter Sunday morning. Generally, as soon as I focus my attention on work I forget that I wanted food.

(This is a very good sign for my health, by the way. During my long chronic illness I couldn’t tolerate fasting at all.)

I haven’t noticed difficulty adding muscle when I work out. I believe I would add muscle more easily on a higher-protein diet, but as it is I add muscle more easily than I used to on the standard American diet. I’m content with my body composition.
PS, I am not able to fast yet.
I didn't see the quote the first time Cici, but this is very good to know. I wonder if this could be what is happening on the JUDDD forum to the budds who have great difficulty with fasting??? Time and time again, I have witnessed IF'ers giving up because they feel so frustrated with the actual fasting period. I have always believed that my best results came when I was optimally eating on UD, because in order to feel great during fast requires having a nutritional foundation to fast on.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:42 AM   #848
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I've been following this thread for the last week, and I just got the book from the library. So, I'm in!! I only started back on low carb less than a month ago, and I have been losing weight very well (about 10 lbs in a little more than 2 weeks).

I started adding back in some rice and potatoes this week, and I haven't lost any weight for three days. I feel so good and full all of the time, so I'm not too panicked, yet.

And, like most of you, I've recently had to face the truth once and for all. NO.MORE.WHEAT.

I'm hoping to find some bones to make broth with soon, and I intend to make some fermented veggies soon.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:10 AM   #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
I didn't see the quote the first time Cici, but this is very good to know. I wonder if this could be what is happening on the JUDDD forum to the budds who have great difficulty with fasting??? Time and time again, I have witnessed IF'ers giving up because they feel so frustrated with the actual fasting period. I have always believed that my best results came when I was optimally eating on UD, because in order to feel great during fast requires having a nutritional foundation to fast on.
Yes, I think this is very true. My own experience was, doing pretty well with the fasts the first month and lost 6 pounds but this was after having eaten pretty well prior to starting JUDDD. As I added in more of the foods I missed (because everything is okay on JUDDD) I had more and more trouble until I was downright sick. Then switching to NK further depleted any nutrition from the carb family. So then I arrive here with somewhat of a mess to clean up. I am surprised that I still have cravings though since I think it has been about a month since I started in earnest. Perhaps the lack of grassfed protein or organic potatoes is slowing the healing down. On the positive side, I slept 8 hours last night and fasted 14 so occasionally I am seeing improvement..
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:10 AM   #850
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Hi, Laurie. Welcome aboard.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:32 AM   #851
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I've been following this thread for the last week, and I just got the book from the library. So, I'm in!! I only started back on low carb less than a month ago, and I have been losing weight very well (about 10 lbs in a little more than 2 weeks).

I started adding back in some rice and potatoes this week, and I haven't lost any weight for three days. I feel so good and full all of the time, so I'm not too panicked, yet.

And, like most of you, I've recently had to face the truth once and for all. NO.MORE.WHEAT.

I'm hoping to find some bones to make broth with soon, and I intend to make some fermented veggies soon.
What a fantastic weight loss. Good for you. Another one joins the no more wheat club. That evil evil stuff!!

Quote:
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Yes, I think this is very true. My own experience was, doing pretty well with the fasts the first month and lost 6 pounds but this was after having eaten pretty well prior to starting JUDDD. As I added in more of the foods I missed (because everything is okay on JUDDD) I had more and more trouble until I was downright sick. Then switching to NK further depleted any nutrition from the carb family. So then I arrive here with somewhat of a mess to clean up. I am surprised that I still have cravings though since I think it has been about a month since I started in earnest. Perhaps the lack of grassfed protein or organic potatoes is slowing the healing down. On the positive side, I slept 8 hours last night and fasted 14 so occasionally I am seeing improvement..
I think we are in the same place with a mess to clean up. I am also a month into this and still having cravings. Mostly in the evening. Congrats on getting a full 8 hours and fasting to 14. That IS great improvement!
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:06 PM   #852
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Yes, I think this is very true. My own experience was, doing pretty well with the fasts the first month and lost 6 pounds but this was after having eaten pretty well prior to starting JUDDD. As I added in more of the foods I missed (because everything is okay on JUDDD) I had more and more trouble until I was downright sick. Then switching to NK further depleted any nutrition from the carb family. So then I arrive here with somewhat of a mess to clean up. I am surprised that I still have cravings though since I think it has been about a month since I started in earnest. Perhaps the lack of grassfed protein or organic potatoes is slowing the healing down. On the positive side, I slept 8 hours last night and fasted 14 so occasionally I am seeing improvement..
Wonderful about the sleep and I don't think I would worry about the time of fasting. I mean go with how you feel. If you go 10 hours that is good, but I am a firm believer that this fasting daily is much gentler than JUDDD. I think that when I moved to NK which was around Oct., that I may have been in the exact same boat. Coming from JUDDD, where I had been having fun on UDs (nuts, wine, & choc) and going down that same road, then moved to NK where I ate too much non-nutrition. Does this make sense? I can't even remember everything I ate, but seems like I may have had lots of bacon, eggs, cheese and sour cream.

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Old 02-14-2013, 12:23 PM   #853
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Welcome Laurie!
Do Not Panic. Reintroducing carbs (even safe starches) after a period of LC makes your internal hydrolic system stagger around for a week or so. This is natural and normal. In the meantime, while waiting for your bod to be ready to start burning fat again, have fun. PHD is such an interesting WOE.

Ya know, she said to the team, after the first few months of learning JUDDD I found fasting/very low cal eating almost too easy... I sailed JUDDD all the way into maintenance harbor. And, with many notable and downright pleasurable exceptions called 'retiree take many vaycays' most of the time I really was eating very close to PHD foods and proportions - and feeling good as a consequence. Dang, I even drifted into 16 - 18 hour fasts most UDs.

I think the foods and way I was eating were a big help. I said it on another thread, but I may put it in my signature: JUDDD does not care what you eat, your body probably does.

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Old 02-14-2013, 12:29 PM   #854
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I think the foods and way I was eating were a big help. I said it on another thread, but I may put it in my signature: JUDDD does not care what you eat, your body probably does.
Wow, this is so true! You were living very optimal nutritionally, PHDish, and that makes a huge difference with JUDDD.
Yes, please use that as your siggie!!!

CaliChris (juddd budd) may could use some good words from you. She is finding out that she is prediabetic and I told her to not worry about the fasting until she gets her health back in order.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:31 PM   #855
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I actually began PHD doing this! It is completely workable as long as you have a bit higher DD. For example, I felt my body needed the nutrition that I would derive from the added cals which were about 600 rather than 300 cals of just broth, meat & veggies. Now, I am doing a very relaxed JUDDD within the 8 hour window. No more counting. I was so weary of counting each and everything I ate. Especially PHD foods which are not high calorie. Now, if I was still eating junk food and fast food, I would stick with logging each & every item eaten.

I suspect now that my cals are avg about 1,000 - 1,250 daily. The key is I only eat twice per day and no snacks because I truly don't have the desire. I will start weighing regularly so that I can report back where this is taking me. I know I haven't lost a significant amount but can safely say I haven't gained or STS as had happened to me with strict JUDDD. I was becoming annoyed that my good clean rotations were literally doing nothing and I know full well that I have lots more to go.
Sunday, so funny, that's pretty much exactly what I've been doing! My normal M.O. is a substantial brekkie and then no food or snack for a good 6-8 hours til dinner, then nothing til bed. And I have been eating to about 700 cals on down days too...do you have the other half of this locket, tee hee? No weight loss but none gained either, so that's good.

Blonde my dear, unfortunately the NSAID is what makes it possible for my body to move without an oil can during the day so must be taken at the start. I hadn't thought of doing "hi volume" low cal stomach buffer as was suggested here, many thanks, I'll try that! You guys are so much help when my brain gets stuck in a corner like one of those robot vacuums....

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Old 02-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #856
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Patty, You have a gift with words. I really enjoy reading everything you say and I smile because I relate to so much too.

On the weight loss, I have noticed that I am having good movement (Berniece?) every single day 2x per day and sometimes 3. That tells me that the daily fast is working well for me.

What more could a girl ask for? No hunger. No crazy cravings. And no sluggish plumbing.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:56 PM   #857
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Patty--I've had some success taking my nsaid's with my MCT oil. seems to "buffer" my tummy. Have you tried that??
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #858
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Patty--I've had some success taking my nsaid's with my MCT oil. seems to "buffer" my tummy. Have you tried that??
You know, I've thought of that, but I seem to end up racing for the porcelain throne when I do coconut oil on an empty stomach! Good thought though, thanks.

And thank you for the lovely compliment about my way with words, Sunday, mwah!

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Old 02-14-2013, 05:27 PM   #859
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I added 1-2 boiled baby red potatoes to dinners this week. I never thought I had sleeping problems exactly, but I'm sleeping so much better now. Might be a change in melatonin? Not sure.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:49 PM   #860
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I added 1-2 boiled baby red potatoes to dinners this week. I never thought I had sleeping problems exactly, but I'm sleeping so much better now. Might be a change in melatonin? Not sure.
That's cool! I think Paul said something about the carbs in the evening improving circadian rhythms. Very nice.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:36 AM   #861
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Congratulations Picklepete! If you can tell the difference, then it makes a difference.

I have noticed that pattern several times: things like sleep and daily energy, that seemed to be not a problem, improved. I don't know whether this fine-tuning or fixing but I know it is good!
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:59 AM   #862
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Love Nancy's siggie. Boogie, boogie, is where I am headed too.

TGIF everyone! Woot! Paul finally has an audiobook that will release on 3.29! I am definitely getting this for my car trips. Plus what an excellent gift to give to family members.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:39 AM   #863
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Good morning. Another good day followed by 7 hrs good sleep. 14 hour fast. I am trying to figure out what makes the difference with the sleep. Currently not taking anything. Trying to get the body to do it on its own. It really makes a difference in my hunger levels.

Good new. The scales are moving downward again. When I left NK and added back carbs, I had the inevitable bounce made more severe by a bingy week shortly after. So, while not yet back to stats, at least headed in the right direction.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:43 AM   #864
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Yay Cici!!

I'm so glad you're sleeping better! Yes I had a big bounce too after stopping NK. It's the regain of water weight, I think...and the return of appetite. Glad the scale is giving you good news! Congrats on both!!
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:57 AM   #865
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Good morning. Another good day followed by 7 hrs good sleep. 14 hour fast. I am trying to figure out what makes the difference with the sleep. Currently not taking anything. Trying to get the body to do it on its own. It really makes a difference in my hunger levels.

Good new. The scales are moving downward again. When I left NK and added back carbs, I had the inevitable bounce made more severe by a bingy week shortly after. So, while not yet back to stats, at least headed in the right direction.
That is just awesome and makes me feel really positive about this WOL

Clear signs your body is healing! Getting good sleep is so key, isn't it? And it is just awesome you are seeing the scale go down. This is just fantastic inspiring news!
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:04 AM   #866
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Love Nancy's siggie. Boogie, boogie, is where I am headed too.

TGIF everyone! Woot! Paul finally has an audiobook that will release on 3.29! I am definitely getting this for my car trips. Plus what an excellent gift to give to family members.
That's a great idea. I already did buy the book for a few people I thought would be interested, but they haven't picked it up yet. I guess you have to be "in that place". I just love this kind of reading though so I go to bed with my health books like PHD and Wheat Belly etc. My best friend, who is healthy and slim, doesn't understand my quest for health and really doesn't want to hear my "discoveries". That's okay. She gets it from both ends. Her husband does a lot of reading too and is the one who just switched to a vegetarian diet and bought somewhere near 20 books of The China Study for people. I have been reading the book (The China Study) and find interesting pieces of info in it, but I am SO into the Jaminet's theories on toxins and malnutrition related obesity. It just resonates with my situation on so many levels.

Last edited by sungoddess; 02-15-2013 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:06 AM   #867
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Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Good morning. Another good day followed by 7 hrs good sleep. 14 hour fast. I am trying to figure out what makes the difference with the sleep. Currently not taking anything. Trying to get the body to do it on its own. It really makes a difference in my hunger levels.

Good new. The scales are moving downward again. When I left NK and added back carbs, I had the inevitable bounce made more severe by a bingy week shortly after. So, while not yet back to stats, at least headed in the right direction.
Great news, Cici.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #868
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That's a great idea. I already did buy the book for a few people I thought would be interested, but they haven't picked it up yet. I guess you have to be "in that place". I just love this kind of reading though so I go to bed with my health books like PHD and Wheat Belly etc. My best friend, who is healthy and slim, doesn't understand my quest for health and really doesn't want to hear my "discoveries". That's okay. She gets it from both ends. Her husband does a lot of reading too and is the one who just switched to a vegetarian diet and bought somewhere near 20 books of The China Study for people. I have been reading the book (The China Study) and find interesting pieces of info in it, but I am SO into the Jaminet's theories on toxins and malnutrition related obesity. It just resonates with my situation on so many levels.
Identifying here. literally all the diseases described in Wheat Belly are found in my family and they are all doctor bound, believing that they have no choice but to take the pills. They fight the idea of drastically changing their diet because of life style more than any other factor. The one sister who will at least hear me out got an earfull last night in an oddly passionate moment when I described all the ills of the family including our children, the world wide epidemics coinciding with the altering of wheat and the plight of our grandchildren if they follow the same road. It is not too late for some of us to turn our health around. I will have to succeed in my own healing before any of them follow consider it seriously.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:40 AM   #869
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Oh girl, you are so right! Leading by example is the only way to convince most people to give something new a try.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:48 AM   #870
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Identifying here. literally all the diseases described in Wheat Belly are found in my family and they are all doctor bound, believing that they have no choice but to take the pills. They fight the idea of drastically changing their diet because of life style more than any other factor. The one sister who will at least hear me out got an earfull last night in an oddly passionate moment when I described all the ills of the family including our children, the world wide epidemics coinciding with the altering of wheat and the plight of our grandchildren if they follow the same road. It is not too late for some of us to turn our health around.
  1. I will have to succeed in my own healing before any of them follow consider it seriously.
Very eloquently stated.
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