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Old 02-13-2013, 07:08 AM   #811
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Sunday - thanks so much for starting this thread. and friends for posting your experiences.

I have been obsessed with this thread for the past 24 hours

After blindly following JUDDD for many months, 2 weeks ago I decided to stop fasting EOD and focus on my health and doing what feels good for me.

Easier said than done... but I am learning and will continue to do so.

For the past two weeks I have been listening to my body and eating intuitively. Eating natural unprocessed foods. I have been counting calories but not stepping on the scale daily. Well I did weigh in yesterday and I am the exact same weight. And my calories have been high!!!!

More importantly I am feeling so much better. I have refueled my body and want to get away from the "counting", whether its daily weighing or calories counting. There are more important markers that can "judge" how I am doing.

I am adding safe starches to the eating plan today and like the idea of a 14 hour fast.

I guess I'll be looking for Bones soon
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:15 AM   #812
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Welcome Hope--this is such a great group--Health first is our motto!!
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:18 AM   #813
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Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Thanks everyone! I appreciate the wisdom here.

I did wake up with congestion this morning in my chest. I haven't coughed or had any tickle for quite a while, so I have a feeling that something in the gumbo was not good.
Or, then again, you could just have a bug/virus?

Which would also be a bummer - getting sick while eating/working for health. DH went through five weeks of that nasty might-as-well-be-flu cold, culminating in bacterial bronchitis...I really enjoyed feeling great through that nightmare.

Hey Hope! Welcome to the party!
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:35 AM   #814
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Welcome Hope!

Welcome to the pursuit of health. And go ahead and get those bones!
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:23 AM   #815
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Yes, I sure did have acid/reflux. So, I bet it was one of the foods. Okra? I certainly don't think it would be shrimp, but then maybe?
I've been lucky not to have too much trouble (ever) with acid reflux, but when I do it usually involves tomatoes and a starch (rice, pasta, pizza crust). You'll find the culprit soon. Feel better, I hope you're not getting sick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopefulsweigh View Post
Sunday - thanks so much for starting this thread. and friends for posting your experiences.

I have been obsessed with this thread for the past 24 hours

After blindly following JUDDD for many months, 2 weeks ago I decided to stop fasting EOD and focus on my health and doing what feels good for me.

Easier said than done... but I am learning and will continue to do so.

For the past two weeks I have been listening to my body and eating intuitively. Eating natural unprocessed foods. I have been counting calories but not stepping on the scale daily. Well I did weigh in yesterday and I am the exact same weight. And my calories have been high!!!!

More importantly I am feeling so much better. I have refueled my body and want to get away from the "counting", whether its daily weighing or calories counting. There are more important markers that can "judge" how I am doing.

I am adding safe starches to the eating plan today and like the idea of a 14 hour fast.

I guess I'll be looking for Bones soon
Hope!! Health first! Everything else will fall into place.

Nancy~ It is fun to be able to discuss food and calories.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:30 AM   #816
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I just wanted to say that I've really fallen into place with the safe starches and the sweet root vegetables. I'm crazy for butternut squash and carrots and of course who doesn't love potatoes? I've been eating Salmon at least once a week and twice if I can swing it. I really need to learn to prepare it myself! And some chicken and turkey and some ground beef. I haven't made any pork loin or pork chops for awhile...thinking it's okay if I don't eat it for now. Also on my daily rotation: Yogurt, green olives, eggs, cottage cheese, and greens! Are green olives considered fermented?

Hope~ when I started eating this way I stayed the same weight for several days...to the ounce. Then dropped 3lbs overnite! Weird but good.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:32 AM   #817
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Speaking, also, of the lasting satiation effect of PHD foods: On Saturday at noon, I ate the meaty bits left in the crock pot from making broth, and the marrow that was still hiding out in the bones. I was not hungry at dinner time. I ate a late, very small dinner that day. And I was truly amazed!

For my xylitol sinus rinse, I just put 1/4 tsp Himi pink salt and 1/4 tsp xylitol in my Neti pot, fill with warm, filtered water.

I got a smokin' deal on pure birch xylitol recently at WholeandNatural.com. The brand is Health Garden. This was 10 lbs for $55, no shipping. (Am I allowed to promo a product or site like this here? If not, I'll remove this.) Since my family uses xylitol for all things sweet to eat, as well as for personal hygiene use, I like to have a lot of it.

Today was my official monthly weigh-in. Since Jan 13th, I've lost a good, solid 5.4 lbs. I'm back in my size 12 pants! Suddenly, I feel sexy! And that's a very good thing at age 60!

My sciatica numbness and twinges are virtually gone, as well as the niggling little hip and knee pain I was having! I've had no headaches, can't remember my last Tylenol. My energy level and stamina are going up more and more. I'm sleeping like a baby. My excess mucus expulsion (ahem ... ) is way down (that's why I quit dairy along with the grains, legumes, sugar, and veg oils).

sunday: Your congestion may be a cleansing/purging process. I discovered that thyme is an excellent natural expectorant. I use 1 tsp dried thyme and 1 tsp dried spearment per large mug of water, and steep for 10+ minutes. It tastes wonderful, and really helps. I drink this tea practically every day, congestion or not, hot or iced, because I like the taste better than any herbal tea.

BLUE
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #818
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Blue~ congrats on the weight loss! Happy to hear your pain level is down as well. Something very cool to look forward to.....
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:58 AM   #819
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Congratulations Blue! Great all around progress!

That tea sounds good, I am going to try it.

As I think about it, my bod does not react well to artificial sweeteners. I think, for me, I will stick to sea salt/baking soda nasal rinses. I enjoyed reading about it though - very thought-provoking.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:43 AM   #820
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Welcome Hope! I just made small changes as you have noticed and it has changed my life completely. I have dropped the dang counting too! It is so freeing! No, I take that back I do log a few things, just because I want to have a general idea of what I am eating, but I am not obsessed with 300 cal DDs anymore. I just eat in my window of the wonderful assortment of PHD veggies, protein, & fat. Simple and sane.

And, if you don't have the book, but need answers, please feel free to ask here or even better at the PHD site. If Paul doesn't answer, someone who is knowledgeable will be by. I have seen Sisson, Chris Kresser, Seth Roberts, & Mat LaLonde popping in and advising now and then too. You can learn a whole lot by reading the Q&A at Perfect Health Diet.

Blue & Nancy, I think I have figured it out!!! I believe that I may have used wheat flour for the roux instead of my coconut/almond flour. I have kept the wheat flour in the house, but separate for DH. I am almost positive, that I picked up the wrong flour container. Even though it wasn't very much, I believe that could be the culprit of my tummy issues and the tickle and congestion I am experiencing. It almost feels like asthma. Which is beyond wild!!! Could wheat have caused these issues?
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #821
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Yay Blue on your success!
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:13 AM   #822
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... Could wheat have caused these issues?
For me it could. Up to and including the sniffles the next day.

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Old 02-13-2013, 10:15 AM   #823
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Sunday~ my asthma is MUCH better, sans wheat!
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:17 PM   #824
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Thanks for the warm welcome and the wealth of information.

I will be staying off the scale for another 2 weeks. I don't want that number to drive my decisions. So a check-in in two weeks just to make sure I am on the right path. I feel I need to clear my jumbled head and the numbers were starting to make me crazy so I'm having a break.

I was at the grocers this afternoon and the only soup bones to be found were "Beef Bone Marrow Soup Bones" "Previously Frozen" "at $5.49/kg. They looked kinda gross...really I've never made broth before so this is new. This was at the regular grocery store and I passed. Making BB may be harder than I thought . Something about those frozen nose looking things that just did not appeal to me.

I have found a homegrown "vegetable fed" (not grass fed mmm....) farm and would like to source from there in the future.

BLUE - that is an amazing weightloss, nice side effect of caring for the temple .
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:13 PM   #825
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I think you would love either chicken or turkey broth and it is much faster and easier on the budget.

Plus it has all of the wonderful benefits!!!

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Old 02-13-2013, 04:04 PM   #826
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Hi, Hope. Glad you are joining us. I am sort of in the same place. Eating to heal. loosly logging but not counting. Weighing every so often but not daily. Letting the body have what it needs within PHD food choices. Hoping it will want less soon.

The lamb broth from my new bones yesterday had the best gelatin yet. So good. I reused them right away for a 2nd batch but it does not look like it is going to gel up so I may mix the two batches. The bones were pretty crumbly by the time it was done so tossed them. Do you defat your broth?
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:50 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
I just wanted to say that I've really fallen into place with the safe starches and the sweet root vegetables. I'm crazy for butternut squash and carrots and of course who doesn't love potatoes? I've been eating Salmon at least once a week and twice if I can swing it. I really need to learn to prepare it myself! And some chicken and turkey and some ground beef. I haven't made any pork loin or pork chops for awhile...thinking it's okay if I don't eat it for now. Also on my daily rotation: Yogurt, green olives, eggs, cottage cheese, and greens! Are green olives considered fermented?

You are doing great!! i love the starches too. I can't get enough yam and butternut squash.
When I was reading something from Dr Mercola, he said there is a big difference between healthy fermentation and commercially processed. Some are just packed and pasteurized. So it depends on what kind and brand you got.

Hope~ when I started eating this way I stayed the same weight for several days...to the ounce. Then dropped 3lbs overnite! Weird but good.
I love those overnight big drops!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSojourn View Post
Speaking, also, of the lasting satiation effect of PHD foods: On Saturday at noon, I ate the meaty bits left in the crock pot from making broth, and the marrow that was still hiding out in the bones. I was not hungry at dinner time. I ate a late, very small dinner that day. And I was truly amazed!

For my xylitol sinus rinse, I just put 1/4 tsp Himi pink salt and 1/4 tsp xylitol in my Neti pot, fill with warm, filtered water.

I got a smokin' deal on pure birch xylitol recently at WholeandNatural.com. The brand is Health Garden. This was 10 lbs for $55, no shipping. (Am I allowed to promo a product or site like this here? If not, I'll remove this.) Since my family uses xylitol for all things sweet to eat, as well as for personal hygiene use, I like to have a lot of it.

Today was my official monthly weigh-in. Since Jan 13th, I've lost a good, solid 5.4 lbs. I'm back in my size 12 pants! Suddenly, I feel sexy! And that's a very good thing at age 60!

My sciatica numbness and twinges are virtually gone, as well as the niggling little hip and knee pain I was having! I've had no headaches, can't remember my last Tylenol. My energy level and stamina are going up more and more. I'm sleeping like a baby. My excess mucus expulsion (ahem ... ) is way down (that's why I quit dairy along with the grains, legumes, sugar, and veg oils).

sunday: Your congestion may be a cleansing/purging process. I discovered that thyme is an excellent natural expectorant. I use 1 tsp dried thyme and 1 tsp dried spearment per large mug of water, and steep for 10+ minutes. It tastes wonderful, and really helps. I drink this tea practically every day, congestion or not, hot or iced, because I like the taste better than any herbal tea.

BLUE
Congrats on feeling sexy at sixty. Wish I felt that!! And congrats on all the improved health benefits. Thanks for the xylitol tip as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post
Congratulations Blue! Great all around progress!

That tea sounds good, I am going to try it.

As I think about it, my bod does not react well to artificial sweeteners. I think, for me, I will stick to sea salt/baking soda nasal rinses. I enjoyed reading about it though - very thought-provoking.
I don't do too well eating most artificial sweeteners, but when I learned the benefits of xylitol, I thought I would give it a try. I also use the pure birch and was amazed at how much better my sinuses were after using it a month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Welcome Hope! I just made small changes as you have noticed and it has changed my life completely. I have dropped the dang counting too! It is so freeing! No, I take that back I do log a few things, just because I want to have a general idea of what I am eating, but I am not obsessed with 300 cal DDs anymore. I just eat in my window of the wonderful assortment of PHD veggies, protein, & fat. Simple and sane.

And, if you don't have the book, but need answers, please feel free to ask here or even better at the PHD site. If Paul doesn't answer, someone who is knowledgeable will be by. I have seen Sisson, Chris Kresser, Seth Roberts, & Mat LaLonde popping in and advising now and then too. You can learn a whole lot by reading the Q&A at Perfect Health Diet.

Blue & Nancy, I think I have figured it out!!! I believe that I may have used wheat flour for the roux instead of my coconut/almond flour. I have kept the wheat flour in the house, but separate for DH. I am almost positive, that I picked up the wrong flour container. Even though it wasn't very much, I believe that could be the culprit of my tummy issues and the tickle and congestion I am experiencing. It almost feels like asthma. Which is beyond wild!!! Could wheat have caused these issues?
I am betting it could! When I have cleared wheat out for awhile and then eat some, I react much more strongly to it. I get a lot of congestion and have a sneezing attack when I ingest some!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopefulsweigh View Post
Thanks for the warm welcome and the wealth of information.

I will be staying off the scale for another 2 weeks. I don't want that number to drive my decisions. So a check-in in two weeks just to make sure I am on the right path. I feel I need to clear my jumbled head and the numbers were starting to make me crazy so I'm having a break.

I was at the grocers this afternoon and the only soup bones to be found were "Beef Bone Marrow Soup Bones" "Previously Frozen" "at $5.49/kg. They looked kinda gross...really I've never made broth before so this is new. This was at the regular grocery store and I passed. Making BB may be harder than I thought . Something about those frozen nose looking things that just did not appeal to me.

I have found a homegrown "vegetable fed" (not grass fed mmm....) farm and would like to source from there in the future.

BLUE - that is an amazing weightloss, nice side effect of caring for the temple .
I started with turkey wings and legs and it was so less gross than some of that other stuff. I may never get to adding chicken feet!! The turkey broth is sooooo good! And it doesn't smell bad.

I realized how helpful the MCT oil and coconut oil are during the 16 hour fast.I was not able to take any in my coffee today and I realized that I was hungry. With the oil in my coffee, I could easily make the 16 hours without hunger pains. Anyone else notice that?

Also,can anyone who is not eating liver tell me what brand of copper supplement they use? I saw the ones Paul recommended, but they vary widely in price and wondered if others had a recommendation?
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Last edited by sungoddess; 02-13-2013 at 04:52 PM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:01 PM   #828
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Quote:
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I am betting it could! When I have cleared wheat out for awhile and then eat some, I react much more strongly to it. I get a lot of congestion and have a sneezing attack when I ingest some!
can't believe how fast I was ill. I felt so bloated, but thought it was satiety.

Quote:
And it doesn't smell bad.
Yep, this is exactly why I decided to suggest the turkey wings. Great minds!
I believe from now on we should initiate all PHD newbies with a gift of turkey wing bone broth.


Quote:
I realized how helpful the MCT oil and coconut oil are during the 16 hour fast.I was not able to take any in my coffee today and I realized that I was hungry. With the oil in my coffee, I could easily make the 16 hours without hunger pains. Anyone else notice that?
Not only did I notice. I panic, when I leave to work without my oil.

Also,can anyone who is not eating liver tell me what brand of copper supplement they use? I saw the ones Paul recommended, but they vary widely in price and wondered if others had a recommendation?
I bought liverwurst and it is not nearly as difficult to eat as liver. I take it like a supplement. But, what is wrong with eating 70-90% dark choc? That is much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
Do you defat your broth?
I love the fat and keep it! Although, I can hear Paul telling me that is what I need to cut for the weight loss version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Sunday~ my asthma is MUCH better, sans wheat!
Thank you! I am such a dufus. I have been mucus free and now sabotage my own perfect health with wheat. Gee.

Last edited by sunday; 02-13-2013 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:21 PM   #829
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I bought liverwurst and it is not nearly as difficult to eat as liver. I take it like a supplement. But, what is wrong with eating 70-90% dark choc? That is much easier.

I couldn't find any liverwurst that wasn't made with pork products. It is better than eating liver. Nothing is wrong with eating chocolate- I guess I was thinking I would have to eat like a whole giant Lindt bar to get enough copper and I didn't want that much sugar. But if one square of baking chocolate has .9 mg of copper , I guess it wouldn't require that much. Plus, if I make my chocolate with pistachios, I am adding even more copper. I wonder why anyone would elect to eat the liver if we can do it with chocolate?

I thought I was being good avoiding legumes and didn't realize green peas and green beans are legumes.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:33 PM   #830
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I thought I was being good avoiding legumes and didn't realize green peas and green beans are legumes.
I think Paul mentioned in a Q&A that he eats both of those. The unofficial test is if the raw state is edible then it's acceptably low in toxins.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:43 PM   #831
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I think Paul mentioned in a Q&A that he eats both of those. The unofficial test is if the raw state is edible then it's acceptably low in toxins.
Thank you!!! I love both.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:44 PM   #832
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I think Paul mentioned in a Q&A that he eats both of those. The unofficial test is if the raw state is edible then it's acceptably low in toxins.
Yes!

I will not give up snap peas or green beans. I think Paul realizes that there is a heck of a lot worse things out there.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:47 PM   #833
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Bev, My liverwurst is made with lamb heart, kidneys and liver. It isn't really bad tasting, but I still take it just the same method as my morning multi-vit.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:57 PM   #834
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Hey oh wise PHDers, how important do you find it to be to stick to an 8 hour eating window? I can easily skip breakfast but take a medication on rising that requires something in the stomach (it's an NSAID--no food = no stomach lining eventually!). Therefore I can't do an 8 hour window unless I don't eat at night. Which for me is about as likely as finding gold nuggets in my cat's litter box instead of the other kind, teehee. I can skate by on about 100 calories of food to take my medication with, but I do need something in there with it. I'd be fine with keeping PHD foods and maintaining the JUDDD alternating days with calories to get my fasting benefits---is anybody doing that? (also I was doing the 8 hour window before Juddding and didn't lose an ounce, averaging 1200-1400 cals a day...)

I await your collective expertise!
--patty
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:02 PM   #835
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Seems like I read in one place that Jaminet is doing 2 16 hour fasts/week but then found this on his website.
Quote:
I have been practicing protein restriction for several years, eating coconut oil and safe starches for several years, and practicing daily intermittent fasting for over six months. I drink tea or lemon-flavored water through the morning, and on most days eat only between 2 pm and 8 pm. If I snack during the fast it is usually either a piece of dark chocolate or some coconut oil.

I sometimes go many days eating relatively little, then eat a lot for a few days. Physical activity – sports, intense exercise, running – increases my appetite noticeably. Regardless, I never feel hungry. It is easy to complete the daily fast: some tea, sometimes with coconut oil or dark chocolate, is enough. I now do total fasting on religious fast days – for instance, I now do a 64-hour fast from Holy Thursday through Easter Sunday morning. Generally, as soon as I focus my attention on work I forget that I wanted food.

(This is a very good sign for my health, by the way. During my long chronic illness I couldn’t tolerate fasting at all.)

I haven’t noticed difficulty adding muscle when I work out. I believe I would add muscle more easily on a higher-protein diet, but as it is I add muscle more easily than I used to on the standard American diet. I’m content with my body composition.
PS, I am not able to fast yet.

Last edited by cici52; 02-13-2013 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:26 PM   #836
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Yes he is. He said that 2 days weekly is fine. Go with your routine Patty. Small changes to make your own way. I even thought about changing my window to 8-3. I could do that with ease.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divinemsm54 View Post
Hey oh wise PHDers, how important do you find it to be to stick to an 8 hour eating window?
Supporting evidence for IF comes from many places (warrior diet, leangains, etc.) My main struggle is that I have a 9 to 5 job and for most of the past year I've skipped lunch so basically an unending chain of 12-hour fasts, mostly because I preferred a hot and clean breakfast versus a cold or dubious lunch.

But I'm not really hungry in the morning, so I might experiment with something like a box lunch for 1~2pm. I've relied on breakfast for my intake of eggs, seafood or liverwurst, spinach, and berries so I'm not sure how to integrate those into a portable lunch exactly--maybe boiled eggs and nori sheets filled with salmon and veggies?
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:09 PM   #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picklepete View Post
Supporting evidence for IF comes from many places (warrior diet, leangains, etc.) My main struggle is that I have a 9 to 5 job and for most of the past year I've skipped lunch so basically an unending chain of 12-hour fasts, mostly because I preferred a hot and clean breakfast versus a cold or dubious lunch.

But I'm not really hungry in the morning, so I might experiment with something like a box lunch for 1~2pm. I've relied on breakfast for my intake of eggs, seafood or liverwurst, spinach, and berries so I'm not sure how to integrate those into a portable lunch exactly--maybe boiled eggs and nori sheets filled with salmon and veggies?
I don't know if you like egg salad, but that would make an excellent lunch. Boil some eggs, add your fav pickle relish and mustard. Very good. Especially if you could heat a bit of broth to drink with it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:16 PM   #839
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Blonde, I just now saw your question about olives. Spanish type green olives are supposedly fermented, but the others are not.


From International Olive Council site...
Quote:
Green Olives

Green olives are obtained from olives harvested during the ripening cycle when they have reached normal size, but prior to colour change. They are usually hand picked when there is a slight change in hue from leaf-green to a slightly yellowish green and when the flesh begins to change consistency but before it turns soft. Colour change should not have begun. Trials have been run to machine harvest table olives, but owing to the high percentage of bruised fruit they had to be immersed in a diluted alkaline solution while still in the orchard. Recently harvested, the olives are taken to the plant for processing on the same day if possible.


HOW ARE THEY PROCESSED?
Green olives are processed in two principal ways: with fermentation (Spanish type) and without fermentation (Picholine or American type).

SPANISH OR SEVILLIAN STYLE

The olives are treated in a diluted lye solution (sodium hydroxide) to eliminate and transform the oleuropein and sugars, to form organic acids that aid in subsequent fermentation, and to increase the permeability of the fruit. The lye concentrations vary from 2% to 3.5%, depending on the ripeness of the olives, the temperature, the variety and the quality of the water. The treatment is performed in containers of varying sizes in which the solution completely covers the fruit. The olives remain in this solution until the lye has penetrated two thirds of the way through the flesh. The lye is then replaced by water, which removes any remaining residue and the process is repeated. Lengthy washing properly eliminates soda particles but also washes away soluble sugars which are necessary for subsequent fermentation.

Fermentation is carried out in suitable containers in which the olives are covered with brine. Traditionally, this was done in wooden casks. More recently, larger containers have come into use that are inert on the inside. The brine causes the release of the fruit cell juices, forming a culture medium suitable for fermentation. Brine concentrations are 9-10% to begin with, but rapidly drop to 5% owing to the olive's higher content of interchangeable water.

At first Gram-negative bacteria multiply, but after a week and a half they disappear. They are a consequence of contamination produced in the plant installations, and in the atmosphere and brine and can be avoided by stepping up hygiene measures. At a pH level of 6 and upwards, lactobacilli develop massively until the Gram-negatives disappear and the brine attains a pH of 4.5. There is a predominance of Lactobacillus plantarum which produces lactic acid from glucose almost by itself. When the fermentable matter is spent, acid formation ceases. Yeasts appear together with the lactobacilli. Fermentative yeasts do not cause deterioration but oxidant yeasts consume lactic acid and raise the pH level and may therefore jeopardise the process.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:47 AM   #840
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Cici, thanks for that quote from Jaminet.
It's so humane to approach eating this way -- you'll know it's time to fast when you find yourself able to fast, you'll know you're doing some great healing when you don't crave junk, etc., etc. So much kinder.
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