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Old 02-05-2013, 08:40 AM   #601
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Also, I cook/grill all of my meats for the most part on Sunday. Then I freeze some for the end of the week and ziploc bag up the protein for the beginning. This way, I really don't cook much during the weekdays. And we are allowed so much less protein, that I don't sweat the days that I don't have much. I eat taters w/ broth.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:51 AM   #602
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Hey Blonde, those dark choc chips are allowed!

I wish I could understand why WW isn't working, but please realize that small changes now will grow to the big change later. So, for instance, you don't like fermented veggies? How bout try eating a bit of greek yogurt or kefir with berries for breakfast? And the later you have breakfast will help if you can.

Also, I think the smoothie may be the answer for you, because you can add that banana, just make sure you add a whole bunch of either kale, spinach, romaine, what ever green veggies you love.

Oh Sunday, I don't think it's that WW isn't working (although it's awful slow). I think it's just slow. But I do think you're right, making better choices like yogurt and eggs for breakfast. Better nutrition in the morning would lead to better eating later in the day. Thanks for listening, I just needed someone to tell me I shouldn't give up on WW, someone who isn't my daughter! As much as it pains me to say this, if I can't get a handle on this I may have to ditch the GF bread for the time being. I think I like it too much! It's made with stuff that's okay with PHD, potato starch, tapioca and rice flour.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:05 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Oh Sunday, I don't think it's that WW isn't working (although it's awful slow). I think it's just slow. But I do think you're right, making better choices like yogurt and eggs for breakfast. Better nutrition in the morning would lead to better eating later in the day. Thanks for listening, I just needed someone to tell me I shouldn't give up on WW, someone who isn't my daughter! As much as it pains me to say this, if I can't get a handle on this I may have to ditch the GF bread for the time being. I think I like it too much! It's made with stuff that's okay with PHD, potato starch, tapioca and rice flour.
How bout just holding GF bread until you get to the end of the day? I think it is PJ that said that GF breads cause her bs issues as well because of the higher carbs? So, if you either balance it with good protein or take it out until last meal?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:47 AM   #604
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Yeah, I could do that, leave it until dinner instead of breakfast. I've eaten LC for so long, and then JUDDD. It's a learning curve. Thank you!
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:33 PM   #605
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Yep, that is in Wheat Belly and in my personal life.

I adore toasted GF bread - eating it was the first time in my life I ate a sandwich and did not suffer for hours afterward. Nope, no pain. Just food cravings like I have not had since the SIRTs kicked in. If I eat GF bread, I don't get a sugar rush, but I spend hours wanting food-food-food...even though I know I am not really hungry.

I still have part of the loaf frozen. Maybe it would work as a bedtime snack?
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:47 PM   #606
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Nancy~ that's so sad! I don't want to have to give up my GF bread but if it's causing me problems with cravings then it has to go! I clawed my way through wheat withdrawals, not so I could get a new addiction. Dang it;s good bread.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:53 PM   #607
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Nancy, I looked at the Nutritional Data on a couple packages of GF bread in my past and found they were much more concentrated in carbs/slice than typical bread which may mean a higher GL and account for your trigger to continue eating. Perhaps a smaller portion like 1/4 slice with a tappenade before dinner would be a safe appetizer instead of it being a stand alone food.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:54 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Yeah, I could do that, leave it until dinner instead of breakfast. I've eaten LC for so long, and then JUDDD. It's a learning curve. Thank you!
Isn't that the truth! I get so mixed up on which rules am I following now.

I do remember from Wheat Belly, the advice to limit starches to very small portions/meal (like 1/2 potato) to minimize the GL.

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #609
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Isn't that the truth! I get so mixed up on which rules am I following now.
I know. Rules. Bah! My husband, bless his heart actually asked me the other day "We're eating potatoes? I thought you were off potatoes". I believe my reply was a rather curt "I dont know what I'm doing".
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #610
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Also, I cook/grill all of my meats for the most part on Sunday. Then I freeze some for the end of the week and ziploc bag up the protein for the beginning. This way, I really don't cook much during the weekdays. And we are allowed so much less protein, that I don't sweat the days that I don't have much. I eat taters w/ broth.
A good reminder. I just resteamed some chicken to put in the freezer because it was just too much to finish before going bad.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Blonde with a Rose View Post
Nancy~ that's so sad! I don't want to have to give up my GF bread but if it's causing me problems with cravings then it has to go! I clawed my way through wheat withdrawals, not so I could get a new addiction. Dang it;s good bread.
I know what you mean Blonde. I found a yummy gluten free bread that I make- a yeast loaf. I really like it! I like it too much. I found myself taking slice after slice after slice. So now, I slice up the loaf and wrap pieces individually and freeze them so I less likely to go in and thaw any. I am not finding that with one piece it causes me cravings for more and more food. If I give in to more pieces, that is a different story. I do eat it with a little fat and a little protein in the evening. So far so good. I hope you find a way to include it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:37 PM   #612
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Even one slice of UDI's is too much for me. But, golly, the first time I tried it I was amazed to realize the level of tummy pain I had gotten used to...once it was gone. Beverly knows I spent most of last year trying to decide if I have gluten/wheat problems. I guess PHD will ultimately convince me - I feel much better without it.

But, sandwiches - even little ones - are so much fun.

Okay, I am off to research recipes for gluten free yeast loaves! (Um, Beverly, want to share yours?)
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:51 PM   #613
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I do! I believe that is the reason I am doing this type of fast so easily. I know that there is 130 cal in the tbsp of oil, but notice that it doesn't cause me issues yet. I am going to quit counting cals either day for a while, because I really like these foods and see what happens to my weight. I naturally eat more food EOD. I am certain this is from JUDDDing so long.
Sunday or others, do you have a sense of whether one could use butter or HWC in coffee/tea, rather than or in addition to MTC/coconut oil, without interrupting the fast? 1/4 cup heavy cream has 205 calories, 22 grams of fat, and 1.22 grams of protein, so it certainly seem low in protein in modest amounts. 2 T. of Kerrygold butter has 200 calories, 22 grams of fat, and under 1 net carb, so I assume that at least is low enough in protein.

Thanks for any insight or opinions on this.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #614
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Believe it or not, I enjoyed raisin bread & low carb bread before JUDDD, but once I began fasting, I saw how much my hunger kicked in. I decided to save it for last meal (and only if I have cals left). I never missed it.

Ouiz & all of the tater folks will really enjoy the Q&A today with Tater tot on Perfect Health Site. I am so impressed that there are quite a few paleo folks from *** & Paleohacks that are really learning/discovering the wonderful effects of resistant starch and taters/rice.


And there is this guy who wrote in...

Quote:
alfredFebruary 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm

hi Paul. potatoe and rice ” WELL I’LL BE DARNED”

Well we gave up on “all things white” to protect my wife who is a 30 years type 2 diabetic on insulin, add myself a pre-diabetic.

So we carried out the following test.ingested 3 OZ of steamed and cooled potatoe with 2 tsp of butter.nothing else, this was in place of a snack which we would normally have given 2 units of fast acting insulin. For this test no insulin was given. At start of test blood glucose was 108 MG/DL. at 30 minutes 99 MG/DL. at 60 minutes 108 MG/DL. at 90 minutes 120 MG/DL.These are unbelievable results. If we had known what the results would have been we would have given half of one unit insulin. The results were the same for white rice and my readings were eaqually as good.
So the safe starch is back in. Paul thank you for what you do.
? do we have to eat the rice cold?. thk alfred
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:04 PM   #615
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Sunday or others, do you have a sense of whether one could use butter or HWC in coffee/tea, rather than or in addition to MTC/coconut oil, without interrupting the fast? 1/4 cup heavy cream has 205 calories, 22 grams of fat, and 1.22 grams of protein, so it certainly seem low in protein in modest amounts. 2 T. of Kerrygold butter has 200 calories, 22 grams of fat, and under 1 net carb, so I assume that at least is low enough in protein.

Thanks for any insight or opinions on this.
Yes! Use Kerrygold butter, I have seen others use it on the PHD site and it is allowed by Paul.

Just my suggestion, feel free to ignore... I know HWC is quite yummy because I used to be an addict, but have you tried Coconut Cream? I have been using the So Delicious brand of Coconut Cream (refrigerated) on the suggestion of someone else here whom I can't remember? I have completely dropped the HWC and enjoy Coconut creamer w/ mct oil. It really has no coconut taste, delightfully creamy w/ 0 carbs and 10 cals per tbsp. I did this to keep cals low on DD, but noticed it worked in well and I am not mising the hwc.

BTW, Sven and all, you can learn a whole lot by reading the Q&A. I subscribe to it and get an email, so that way I can go back and read the ones that I am interested in.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:17 PM   #616
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Nancy, Have you read either "The Daily Avocado" or "Food Renegade" blogs with amazing PHD ideas and grain free.

This is one I am trying tomorrow from Daily Avocado... Just 3 ingredients.




Chocolate Banana Nut Ice Cream

Healthy Icecream. You’ll be amazed at how creamy the frozen fruit becomes. One minute of prep will give you a fresh batch!

Serves 2

Ingredients
•2 frozen peeled bananas/li>
•4 tablespoons raw almond butter
•1 tablespoon raw cacao powder

Preparation
1.In a food processor, combine bananas, almond butter and cacao and pulse until well blended. (The mixture will begin to form a ball and spin in the container towards the end).
2.Scoop out and serve with a dark chocolate garnish.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:20 PM   #617
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Looks yummy.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:38 PM   #618
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Sunday--I have been reading Tatertot's postings on PHD--
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:17 PM   #619
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Even one slice of UDI's is too much for me. But, golly, the first time I tried it I was amazed to realize the level of tummy pain I had gotten used to...once it was gone. Beverly knows I spent most of last year trying to decide if I have gluten/wheat problems. I guess PHD will ultimately convince me - I feel much better without it.

But, sandwiches - even little ones - are so much fun.

Okay, I am off to research recipes for gluten free yeast loaves! (Um, Beverly, want to share yours?)

Of course Nancy. I was doing a lot of research on resistant starch and was looking for a bread recipe to make to use it. I couldn't find any recipes that included it.

The resistant hi-maize starch has some incredible benefits, especially for me with gut disease. I came across a site for Astoria Mills Gluten free mixes. I bought the brown bread-- mix 6. It has sweet potato and hi-maize resistant starch and sprouted chia seeds, etc. It isn't cheap, but when I was purchasing all the different flours to make up a homemade gluten free mix, the price was even higher. And a loaf lasts me a very long time as I freeze sliced pieces. You get more than one loaf out of the mix. You can make rolls too, or whatever shape you want.

I make it slightly different than the directions. I use my enamel dutch oven as my baking vessel at 500 degrees. It makes a wonderful crust which is the best part to me. I really enjoy the bread a lot. I use Kerrygold butter on it.

It is very easy to make. The lady has lots of gluten free mixes- all purpose and pastry etc and a great free e-cookbook she put together.

I wanted to include the resistant starch more in my diet because it is supposed to be good for gut problems.

Like other fibers, resistant starches make their way to the large intestine where they act as prebiotic fibers and serve as food for microbes. Intestinal bacteria ferment resistant starches, producing beneficial short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs) and improving the environment for healthful bacteria to thrive, explains Christine Pelkman, PhD, a senior scientist at Ingredion Incorporated, which produces the Hi-maize resistant cornstarch product.

“Because resistant starch is slowly fermented, it’s more tolerable at much higher doses and with less gas production than other fibers,” Pelkman says. These helpful bacteria have many functions, including producing vitamins, detoxifying potential carcinogens, and activating health-promoting compounds.

Foods containing resistant starches also may aid in weight control because they’re less calorically dense. As resistant starches are fermented in the colon with the production of SCFAs and gases, some of the calories are lost.

Insulin sensitivity and glucose control: Resistant starch escapes digestion in the small intestine, so it doesn’t contribute to blood glucose levels. Studies also suggest that resistant starch can reduce insulin resistance.

“Studies with sufficient amounts of Hi-maize resistant starch have shown lower post-meal glucose and insulin levels, increased satiety, and decreased hunger postfood and meal consumption,” says Hope Warshaw, MMSc, RD, CDE, author of Diabetes Meal Planning Made Easy and consultant to Ingredion. These studies have even shown lower caloric intake at the next meal as well as after 24 hours, she adds. “The slow fermentation of resistant starch along the large intestine may be responsible for some of these effects.”

High-amylose cornstarch is the most widely studied resistant starch source, though some studies have looked at the effects of resistant starch from potatoes, bananas, and wheat. It’s not clear whether generalizations can be made about resistant starches as a class based on the research involving only one source.

Americans consume approximately 3 to 8 g of resistant starch per day, with an average daily intake of 4.9 g.2 A good goal is to consume 15 to 20 g per day, Warshaw says. To help patients and clients reach that goal, RDs should start by encouraging greater consumption of foods that naturally contain resistant starch .

Hi-maize® resistant starch delivers four major categories of health benefits:

Glycemic Management: Hi-maize® resistant starch helps to maintain healthy blood sugar levels as part of a high fiber diet.

Energy Management: Hi-maize® resistant starch is a low glycemic carbohydrate. It has a sustained energy release because it releases part of its energy in the small intestine and the remaining part of its energy in the large intestine. It helps to balance energy in the hours following a meal.

Weight Management: Hi-maize® resistant starch delivers fewer calories than the flour that it replaces. It has been shown to help healthy people eat less and enhances the production of satiety hormones. In addition, it may increase lipid oxidation in healthy people.

Digestive Health: Hi-maize® resistant starch helps maintain a healthy colon. As a prebiotic fiber, it optimizes digestive well being.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #620
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Bev, Someone posted today about this hi-maize brand on PHD! Was that you??? Do you like it? I am going to purchase it for my own bread and pancake. Thank you!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:56 PM   #621
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Sunday--I have been reading Tatertot's postings on PHD--
What do you think about him? He seems obsessed with all things potato. Which I admit that I am now. I hope he is truly doing this out of the goodness of his healthy starch-filled heart.

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:15 PM   #622
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Bev, Someone posted today about this hi-maize brand on PHD! Was that you??? Do you like it? I am going to purchase it for my own bread and pancake. Thank you!
No, I haven't posted on the PHD site. I will need to go find it and check it out. I have to find out how to get on the email list you talked about. I have posted on this site about it. I use it in Ouiz's flour mix. It is said you can replace 1/4 of the flour in a recipe with it, so I did that with Ouiz's mix.

Then I made Glutenfree Girl's french bread recipe and replaced part of the rice flour with the resistant starch and it was good. Then I bought the Astoria Mills brown bread mix and really liked the ingredients in it like the sweet potato flour. To me, it is really good bread, especially doing the baking method I said I used above.

The starch doesn't thicken things, but I use it in smoothies etc. I got a big bag through Honeyville as Netrition was sold out.

This is what convinced me to try it as I want to prevent colon cancer. And this is just another way to get in some fermentation into my system.

According to Susan Waring, B.S. degree in biology from Fairleigh Dickinson University and member of the AACC and the Institute of Food Technologists, "Because resistant starch escapes digestion, it constitutes a large proportion of the fermentable carbohydrates entering the colon and provides a source of nutrients for colonic bacteria. As these microorganisms metabolize the
carbohydrate material via fermentation, the colonic pH is lowered and SCFAs, such as acetate, propionate, and butyrate, are released. Of these, butyrate has been implicated in promoting colonic health. Johnson and Gee (Johnson, I. T. and Gee, J. M. Resistant starch. Nutr. & Food Sci. (1): 20, 1996.) discuss several reasons why a constant supply of butyrate is essential in the colon. The presence of fermentable substrates helps to prevent inflammatory bowel disease and to maintain the metabolic requirements of the mucous. Also, butyrate may aid in suppressing the emergence of tumor cells and may decrease the proliferation of colonic mucosal cells. These factors are believed to reduce the risk of colonic cancer.


I feel good when I use it and will definitely continue until I find out it does something terrible for the body.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #623
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Oh, I hope you will look at today's questions. Lots of very good info about resistant starch and blood sugar as well as other health questions. I hope to try this hi-maize after reading all of tater tots new posts.

I had to go back to page 5 to find the answer for your question about Paul's answer to longer fasting. I am so sorry! What does that tell you???? It tells me that this PHD thread has become too popular to just be a "thread". I hope we can have our own forum.


Paul's answer to me about 16 hour fasts...

Quote:
Hi R,

There are many varieties of fast and different protocols may be optimal for different situations.

That said, I start from a baseline perspective of getting a normal amount of calories every day. The fasting period could be anywhere from 14 to 23 hours, but if the feeding period is very short it’s hard to eat a normal amount of calories. I think a 16 hour fast with two meals in an 8 hour window fits pretty comfortably into most people’s lifestyle, and isn’t too strenuous.

To make it more strenuous and thus potentially more therapeutic, you could either lengthen the daily fast or introduce alternate day fasting as in the Johnson protocol by reducing total calories one day and increasing them the next to compensate.

In general, I think the eating window should have normal amounts of protein regardless of what you are doing. Even if you do the Johnson style alternate day fast, I think doing it more protein sparing modified fast style, with normal protein but reduced carb and protein, makes more sense than cutting all macros equally. This is because we have a minimal protein reserve in the body, but a few days carb reserve in glycogen and many days fat reserve in adipose tissue.

MCT oil can be taken 1 tbsp during the fast to implement the Shangri-La Diet for weight loss, or can be taken in greater quantities spread over the day to make the diet ketogenic as therapy for certain neurological conditions such as epilepsy. However, it is not required by any means.

Hope this helps.

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #624
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I bought some of that resistant corn starch to use in making breads, etc. It is still sitting in the bag because I have qualms about using a corn-based product, corn being a naughty grain and all that. Any thoughts????
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:45 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by ouizoid View Post
I bought some of that resistant corn starch to use in making breads, etc. It is still sitting in the bag because I have qualms about using a corn-based product, corn being a naughty grain and all that. Any thoughts????
Well, I noticed Paul hasn't replied to any of the posts regarding this starch. I know he must be overwhelmed. He has a "real" job and all that. I don't know. It is scary, but it is resistant starch? I feel like I need to wait and hear everything.

Ouiz, do you test your bg? I have wondered if I should start? I really have not had bg issues except when my weight was growing at an exponential rate. The doctor may have warned me because she wanted to place the fear in me.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:49 AM   #626
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Dang it! Why do things have to get interesting on this and other forums just when my 'real' life goes into hyper-drive and I don't have time to read and research and learn?

I will bookmark all of those websites, Sunday, and read when I can. I do totally agree the closer we can come to eating the macro- and micro-nutrients we need, the more likely we are to be healthy, feel good, and find ways to tweak our eating to maintain all the good while evicting fat or maintaining weight loss.

Sunday, yes you should read Wheat Belly asap - it is a fast read but gives a base of info - beyond 'wheat, not good' that is very useful. And I find testing my bg is very helpful in gauging how I react to individual/combinations of foods (and validating what I think is happening by my body's reactions).

Isn't it great to be living in a time when fasting and resistant starch and so many apparently good-for-us/bad-for-us things are actually being thought about and researched?

Beverly, thanks for the recipe sourcing. I am gonna have me some fun!
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:09 AM   #627
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svenskamae, hwc in my coffee has always been my #1 food preference (even over caramel with sea salt). I measure small amounts, but I start every day with some.

For several years I got sick eating coconut oil, a reaction I developed after eating it for years. Bone broth or something in this WOE has healed that...which is great because I believe in the MCTs and other oils in CO with the same intensity I believed in Tinkerbell before she became just another super-star.

These days I ingest hwc and, separately, CO to a total of about 100 - 150 calories every morning and seem to be maintaining the fast.

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Old 02-06-2013, 04:12 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsomeold View Post

These days I ingest hwc and, separately, CO to a total of about 100 calories every morning and seem to be maintaining the fast.
This is good to know. Do you think Coconut Cream & Mct Oil together is okay? I notice 0 carbs or min. protein in the cream and very low cals. I feel the fast mode, but I could be just thinking this too much.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:15 AM   #629
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Nancy, I am thinking the testing is important for my age and believe I should do this. I have not been eating my potatoes cold, I guess I should? hmmm.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:12 AM   #630
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Whoops, I woke up with ADD this morning.

It is fine to have fat in your coffee just no protein until the 16 hours. Thus, the reason that I was using the Coconut Creamer. I am thinking by adding the halfnhalf or Hwc, you may get just enough protein to be considered too much???

However, this is an excerpt from his site~

Quote:
The stress of a fast is largely due to the absence of dietary carb and protein. The body has limited carb storage – glycogen is depleted early in a fast – and is loath to cannibalize lean tissue for protein. On the other hand, the body has abundant fat reserves. So

Two strategies may make sense in different circumstances:

A protein-sparing modified fast. Protein, which is convertible to glucose, is eaten to relieve the carb+protein deficit.

A ketogenic fast. Short-chain and medium-chain fatty acids, such as are found in coconut oil, are eaten to generate ketones. Ketones can partially substitute for glucose utilization.

What these have in common is that they reduce the carb+protein.

Probably 90% of people who fast should favor the protein-sparing approach. Those on ketogenic diets for neurological disorders should probably favor the ketogenic fasting approach.
And for Circadian Rhythm improvement...

Quote:
I found this fascinating – because it adds more evidence regarding the centrality of circadian rhythms in health – and exciting, because it shows that simple tactics can be therapeutic for circadian rhythm disorders.

In the hypothyroidism post, I suggested the following tactics for improving circadian rhythms:

Light entrainment: Get daytime sun exposure, and sleep in a totally darkened room.
Daytime feeding: Eat during daylight hours, so that food rhythms and light rhythms are in synch.
Intermittent fasting: Concentrate food intake during an 8-hour window during daylight hours, preferably the afternoon. A 16-hour fast leading to lower blood sugar and insulin levels, and the more intense hormonal response to food that results from concentration of daily calories into a short 8-hour time window, will accentuate the diurnal rhythm.
Adequate carb intake: Eat at least 400 “safe starch” carbohydrate calories daily during the afternoon feeding window. Relative to a very low-carb diet, this will increase daytime insulin release and, by increasing insulin sensitivity, may reduce fasting insulin levels. It will thus enhance diurnal insulin rhythm.

To these, we can add several more based on Seth’s findings:

Looking at human faces: If you work at a computer, keep a window up that cycles among photos of faces, or shows a video of a talk show; keep photos of your family near your screen.
Standing: Work at a standing desk or, failing that, get in the habit of standing on one leg rather than two.
Animal fat: Eat a diet high in animal fats.

These tactics cured Seth’s sleep disorder. Might these tactics also cure or greatly improve other circadian rhythm disorders – including hypothyroidism and psychiatric disorders like depression and bipolar disorder? Could looking at human faces help the obese lose weight and improve their lipid profiles?

I don’t know but I’d certainly give these techniques a try before pharmaceutical drugs. I believe these techniques deserve clinical testing as therapies for all diseases associated with disrupted circadian rhythms. I believe that they may be just as beneficial for the healthy: by improving immune function, they may delay aging and extend lifespan.

A few weeks ago, when I posted a video of Don Rumsfeld defending the use of a standing desk (the same video was later linked by John Durant and Mark Sisson), I brashly stated, “There are few single life adjustments more likely to improve your health than working at a standing desk.”
The above seems to say to me that we can do the 16 hours either way? This will keep you in fasted state for 16 hours. Is that making sense? I sort of wish that someone in our group would ask this again. I have tried and failed miserably.

Last edited by sunday; 02-06-2013 at 05:23 AM..
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