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Old 12-15-2012, 04:39 PM   #31
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I rather like it right here.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:06 PM   #32
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It's not PHD itself, but the fact that this is a support sub forum for JUDDD.

JUDDD can be used w any plan but clearly peop who are interested in PHD, alone, and not JUDDD since it didn't fit them(or whatever), will not find PHD w/o coming to JUDDD.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneer View Post
after seeing the posting about PHD I couldn't help but post my first ever comments on this site. I started visiting this LC site yrs ago when I was on LC-VLC. I did well and lost about 20lbs. I then started JUDD and lost another 10lbs. I felt like I had struck gold on JUDD. Aftrer 6 months I was as thin as i was on my wedding day 37yrs ago. I loved being thin again, but when I saw my doctor he was surprised with how I looked and told me I had lost too much muscle and at 61yrs old I didn't need that. So that is what brought me to PHD and that was 3 months ago. I learned that fasting for 36 hrs was not good for me so now I fast 16 hrs as recommended by Jaminet. I am slowly building up my muscle again and working out with Julian Michaels. It is strenuous but I can do it. I feel very good emotionally and physically. The only health issue was keeping my blood glucose in check. I feel my health is better and more consistent. I wanted to comment here to share my experience with others my age who may run into the same muscle waste problem. I am very happy with PHD.
I am very much interested in hearing more about your muscle waste and would like to know how long your fasts were prior to this? Thank you for any info that would assist us.

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Old 12-15-2012, 09:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51 View Post
It's not PHD itself, but the fact that this is a support sub forum for JUDDD.

JUDDD can be used w any plan but clearly peop who are interested in PHD, alone, and not JUDDD since it didn't fit them(or whatever), will not find PHD w/o coming to JUDDD.
I can't seem to find the Mod link for JUDDD, but hopefully, Dottie will see this and help to move this thread and all of my posts about the "Tater Hack", and PHD to the Other Plans.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:16 PM   #35
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Just found it and asked that all be removed.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
I am very much interested in hearing more about your muscle waste and would like to know how long your fasts were prior to this? Thank you for any info that would assist us.
I als0 wonder about the muscle waste, how did your doctor check you for that? Was it a blood test of some kind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
I can't seem to find the Mod link for JUDDD, but hopefully, Dottie will see this and help to move this thread and all of my posts about the "Tater Hack", and PHD to the Other Plans.
I enjoyed the Tater Hack so much - now where is it, how can I find it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51 View Post
It's not PHD itself, but the fact that this is a support sub forum for JUDDD.

JUDDD can be used w any plan but clearly peop who are interested in PHD, alone, and not JUDDD since it didn't fit them(or whatever), will not find PHD w/o coming to JUDDD.
The reason I liked it here on JUDD is because JUDD is the only place I visit Hope I can find it again, but


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Old 12-16-2012, 08:54 AM   #37
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Tater Hack is still on the JUDDD forum, because it is about using potatoes during DD's on JUDDD. Mods are not going to move it.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:01 AM   #38
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Cheri is only moving my posts and a few other's who are on the "Benefits" & "DD Tater Hack" thread that pertain to PHD.

I am just learning about this plan and find it to be very compatible to JUDDD, but don't want to cause any conflicts with JUDDDers by keeping it here.
It truly is the plan that I desire to maintain in JUDDD manner on. Lots of good health benefits for the elder JUDDDers.

Leona, it is easy to find because it is under "Other Plans" http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/other-plans/. I may be overly enthused right now, because I am new to this.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday View Post
Cheri is only moving my posts and a few other's who are on the "Benefits" & "DD Tater Hack" thread that pertain to PHD.

I am just learning about this plan and find it to be very compatible to JUDDD, but don't want to cause any conflicts with JUDDDers by keeping it here.
It truly is the plan that I desire to maintain in JUDDD manner on. Lots of good health benefits for the elder JUDDDers.

Leona, it is easy to find because it is under "Other Plans" Other Plans - Low Carb Friends. I may be overly enthused right now, because I am new to this.
Found it!!

Leona (the elder JUDDDer )
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #40
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Now that I found where this info is I see no one posting a thing but Sunday and Me

The Elder JUDDDer! (Leona)
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:59 PM   #41
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Sorry Leona!

I bet Kettleboy, Joyce & a few others will find us soon. I am just swamped today and can't get back to LCF! Hope to post a bit more info that I have saved from the PHD site. When you have a minute, google Perfect Health Diet, you will find his blog and some wonderful info and Q&A.

My goodness, why or why, can't I have some free time???
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:07 PM   #42
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I'm here, but was out of town. LOL! Will check back in soon.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:54 PM   #43
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From PHD Blog...

Supplemental Foods

Quote:
We recommend eating these “supplemental foods” on a regular schedule:

3 egg yolks daily, 5 yolks daily for women who are pregnant or planning to become pregnant (for choline, folate, vitamin A)
A bowl of bone and joint broth soup, 3 days per week (for calcium, phosphorus, and collagen)
Vegetables such as tomato, avocado, potato, sweet potato, banana, green leafy vegetables, and seaweeds such as dulse, daily (for potassium)
Dark chocolate (>70%), as desired
¼ lb beef or lamb liver, weekly (copper, vitamin A, folate, choline)
fish, shellfish, eggs, and kidneys, weekly (for selenium)
OPTIONAL: 1 tablespoon red palm oil, weekly (vitamin E)
Hmmm, I am quite happy with this and think, Kristin, will like the dark choc rec.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:56 PM   #44
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I have never taken Copper in my life, but note that he recommends copper especially if you do not eat liver several times per week.

Daily Supplements

Quote:
These are supplements we recommend be taken daily:

Sunshine and vitamin D3 as needed to achieve serum 25OHD of 40 ng/ml.
Vitamin K2 100 mcg or more
Magnesium 200 mg
Iodine at least 225 mcg, recommend 1 mg
Vitamin C 1 g
OPTIONAL: Lithium 2.5 mg – a 5 mg tablet cut into halves
OPTIONAL: Silicon 5 mg
ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT EAT BEEF OR LAMB LIVER: Copper 2 mg

Vitamin D3

Seek total dose from sun, food, and supplements of 4,000 IU/day
Adjust to 25OHD level of 40 ng/ml (whites/Asians), 30 ng/ml (blacks)


Vitamin K2

Low dose: 100 mcg MK-7
Moderately high dose: 1000 mcg MK-4, 100 mcg MK-7
High dose: 5 mg MK-4


Magnesium

Use chelate (e.g. glycinate) or citrate
Daily dose 200 mg
Epsom salt baths are an alternative


Iodine

Doses shown: 225 mcg, 3 mg, 12.5 mg
Start at 225 mcg and double dose no faster than monthly: 225 mcg -> 450 mcg -> 900 mcg -> 1/2 prolamine -> 1 prolamine -> 1/2 Iodoral -> 1 Iodoral.


Vitamin C

Low dose: 500 mg
High dose: 1 g
Highest doses (for viral infections) variable


Lithium (Optional)

We recommend 2.5 mg/day which is a half-tablet (cut with razor blade); a quarter-tablet is also a good dose
Caution: too much lithium can exacerbate hypothyroidism, inhibit aspects of immune function, and affect neurological function


Silicon (Optional)

We recommend 5 mg/day
This is a low dose, higher doses may be beneficial


Copper (When Liver Is Not Eaten)

Daily dose of 2 mg recommended in weeks when 1/4 pound cooked (1/3 pound uncooked) beef or lamb liver is not eaten
Do not supplement copper if you eat beef or lamb liver
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #45
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His recommended sweetener is Brown Rice Syrup, but he also says if you are a low carber and wish to remain lower...

Low-Carb Sweeteners

For those on ketogenic diets who wish to keep carbs down.
Stevia is a popular low-carb sweetener.
Erythritol is a natural sugar alcohol with almost no calories.
Xylitol is a sugar alcohol that inhibits Candida but can act as a laxative.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:07 PM   #46
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oh, and one other thing--I bought some Uniliver tablets to try and get my liver in, but they cause me maltitol-like gastric distress. On perusal of the internet, many people have found the same to be true. If anyone can point me to a gas-free liver supplement I would be most grateful--
Very interesting. I looked up Dr. Jaminet's recommendations and he says to supplement w/ copper if you do not eat liver. Evidently, copper is very good to eliminate varicose veins & thinning hair as well.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:58 AM   #47
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Made liver for the first time ever last week. It was great.
Hey Sunday, thanks for organizing this thread.

Can you give me a few of your DD menus? I'm having a crazy time trying to combine JUDDD and PHD (well, and potato hacking, I suppose ) - too many balls in the air for this addled brain.

And do we have any answers to the 16 hour fast thing, ie with Juddd, we're effectively fasting (or we say we are) for 36 hours, which is way beyond what Jaminet says is ideal. Now he could be off, or it could be that with JUDDD we're doing calorie cycling but not really fasting, or....

I'm interested because I experienced some muscle loss as I hovered around maintenance with JUDDDing. Also hair loss and yucky skin. I'd love to figure out whether that was a micronutrient split problem (that may be corrected with PHD) or whether the 36 hour "fast" was too long, or....

At this point I'm at a higher weight than I like but my hair and skin are better. I'd like to whittle back down with my best guess at approach.

Thanks for everything. Fantastic stuff.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:02 AM   #48
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Hi Kristin,
I am so glad that you brought this up. Still waiting on an answer from the Jaminet's. I have been reading and reading the blog, hope to read the book this week and should be stumbling on his opinion. From what I have read on his blog and what Lynn2you mentioned in the Benefits thread, it is the "protein fasting" that is causing issues after 16 hours. This makes sense, to some degree, because EVERYONE (Sisson, Kruse, Robb Wolf, etc.) are now supporting the BAB with 30 gr of protein 30 minutes on waking.

In Pioneer's post she mentions the same thing.

Quote:
I then started JUDD and lost another 10lbs. I felt like I had struck gold on JUDD. Aftrer 6 months I was as thin as i was on my wedding day 37yrs ago.I loved being thin again, but when I saw my doctor he was surprised with how I looked and told me I had lost too much muscle and at 61yrs old I didn't need that. So that is what brought me to PHD and that was 3 months ago. I learned that fasting for 36 hrs was not good for me so now I fast 16 hrs as recommended by Jaminet. I am slowly building up my muscle again and working out with Julian Michaels. It is strenuous but I can do it. I feel very good emotionally and physically. The only health issue was keeping my blood glucose in check.
I will be searching this evening and ask again! I think the JUDDD budds who have mentioned loss of muscle will want to know more about this!

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Old 12-17-2012, 06:05 AM   #49
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Also, Kristin, this will be even more important for us older JUDDDers such as 45 and up. Muscle loss would be more critical as we age.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:14 AM   #50
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You know, the inverse of this whole idea is another something I've wondered about for a awhile. In other words, if I was eating pretty high protein on a down day just to make it through, was I really getting the benefits of autophagy? Some days my down day protein would be almost as much as an up day's. Anywho . . . just something I wondered about ever since watching the Horizon documentary.

Well, so far I'm doing great on "regular calories every day" PHD-style. I *am* still having some wheat but I've basically got my macros at 50-55% fat, 20-30% carb (most of that white potato and white rice), and the rest protein. 1450 calories per day for the last 5 days. .4 lbs loss each day. Interesting.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:25 AM   #51
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OH, for DD menus, this is what I am planning this far. There really isn't a way to reach the macros he suggests on DD, so I am concentrating on adding his daily foods that he suggests and will play around with the macros. I believe Joyce mentioned that she has been PHDing first and will JUDDD as she gets the hang of it? I may do that as well. Sort of loosely JUDDDing. I think I figured that DD's will be higher (700) and UD's will be about the same. I will have to work on this because I have even thought of doing potato DD with broth added. *This is one reason, I would have loved to keep this thread in the JUDDD forum for a bit longer.


Bone broth whenever I hunger, about 2x per day. (40 cals per cup)
Coffee or tea w/ 1 tbsp of EVCO and butter. (100 cals)
2 Eggs (155)
2 bacon (130)

Total cals - 517

3 oz Tilapia
3 oz of winter squash
Spinach salad w/ evoo & vinegar
Bone broth w/ added butter/evco

Total cals - 391
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:29 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttemple4 View Post
You know, the inverse of this whole idea is another something I've wondered about for a awhile. In other words, if I was eating pretty high protein on a down day just to make it through, was I really getting the benefits of autophagy? Some days my down day protein would be almost as much as an up day's. Anywho . . . just something I wondered about ever since watching the Horizon documentary.

Well, so far I'm doing great on "regular calories every day" PHD-style. I *am* still having some wheat but I've basically got my macros at 50-55% fat, 20-30% carb (most of that white potato and white rice), and the rest protein. 1450 calories per day for the last 5 days. .4 lbs loss each day. Interesting.
Joyce, Do you also exercise with PHD? I am just curious, because I am and know Kristin and Kettleboy are too. I am going to ask Kettleboy if he measured muscle during fasting and how long his fasts were. He kept very scientific records of everything.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:31 AM   #53
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Also, one of the reviewers on the big site, said that he did very well transferring to PHD, but changed his fasting to only 2x per week at 16 hours.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #54
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Thanks, everybody. I may try loose JUDDDing as I get the macros close.
I have read the book, and there are beautiful explanations for some things and others are a wee bit vague.
I do love the way it feels and am encouraged to hear about continued fat loss on it!
Just finished four days of traveling and hyperyucky eating and am SO glad to have bones roasting in the oven this morning.
What's BAB?
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:49 AM   #55
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Big A$$ Breakfast

Somewhere YamYam has a thread about the theory behind the BAB.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:53 AM   #56
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Kristin, the biggest complaint on the reviews about the book, is not the content or "perfect health" theory, but Jaminet's use a lot of highly technical indepth biological/chemical explanations that even laymen have trouble comprehending. Is this true?

Also, I am very likely going to loosely JUDDD, because I want to study the recipe blog more and figure out what I can do well on. I love hearing from other JUDDD budds on how they do both.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:03 AM   #57
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BAB.
Sunday, if you were okay with Taubes, Phinney, and Volek, you'll be fine with Jaminet. I appreciated the stuff I understood, and happily skimmed whatever I didn't. What I love about this guy is his apparent detachment from the rightness or wrongness of it all. He appears to come from curiosity and an eagerness to thoroughly review all credible science. He's quite happy to publish reports from people not helped by his approach That feels good even compared with Michael Eades, for instance (not to pick on Eades, but some of them are so committed to one perspective that I begin to question their willingness to look at evidence without bias).
Onward!
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:15 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyjoy View Post
BAB.
Sunday, if you were okay with Taubes, Phinney, and Volek, you'll be fine with Jaminet. I appreciated the stuff I understood, and happily skimmed whatever I didn't. What I love about this guy is his apparent detachment from the rightness or wrongness of it all. He appears to come from curiosity and an eagerness to thoroughly review all credible science. He's quite happy to publish reports from people not helped by his approach That feels good even compared with Michael Eades, for instance (not to pick on Eades, but some of them are so committed to one perspective that I begin to question their willingness to look at evidence without bias).
Onward!

Yes, I noticed this by reading all of the Q&A from the public on his website, especially the women who struggle, like moi! He began detailed research to revise the PHD to have weight loss benefits that would specifically target the menopausal group.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:34 AM   #59
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This is not from the PHD, but may explain his reasoning on the protein fasting.
It is concerning Leptin Reset and I have tried this at the beginning days of JUDDD and actually felt fantastic. I only ate 30 grams of protein, which is not difficult. Never ate during the day at all.

BAB - Big A** Breakfast - According to Dr. Jack Kruse Leptin Reset is~
50 grams of protein at breakfast for men, & I believe 30 grams for women...

from his site...

Quote:
Does everybody need 50 grams of protein at breakfast during the LR Protocol, regardless of size or sex? My answer is yes, 50 grams is the minimum for success. If you’re bigger, you can go even past 70 grams. If you can’t eat that much protein, add fat to make up the rest.

If you are obese, add coconut oil to your coffee or tea, or eat a tablespoon of it. I use Nutiva brand and love it. If you’re underweight, eat more hashbrowns cooked in pastured butter. Eat breakfast until you’re stuffed. If you don’t get to 50 grams of protein, don’t sweat it – I don’t want the stress to raise your cortisol! Just make sure your hunger is killed. If you get hungry before, during, or after lunch, you need to eat more protein or fat at breakfast.

What are examples of a 50 gram protein breakfast? If you can’t figure this out, you have bigger problems than the reset can fix. Use the internet or any primal or paleo website. Talk to Diane Sanfillippo or grassfedgirl – they’ll tell you to just eat a sh*t-load of bacon. They have my stamp of approval. Both of these girls rock and they can help teach you to cook paleoliciously.

Does breakfast need to be just protein, or can there be vegetables or fruit? What about fat? If you are overweight, avoid fruit. Veggies are fine as long as they are not nightshades and have a low glycemic index. If you are underweight, you can eat fruit, and I suggest blueberrries, blackberries, and grapes over all others.

Fat is great. The obese can use coconut oil as their “number one diesel.” Google “Nutiva Coconut Manna” and then send me a donation for that recommendation – you will soon be addicted! If you don’t like coconut oil or Nutiva coconut manna, you can use heavy cream, but you won’t lose weight as quickly.

For the thinner LR crowd, I recommend pastured raw heavy cream. Get some saturated fat raw cheeses from France. If you must use pasteurized stuff, go ahead, but it’s not my top choice.

What if I can’t eat a big breakfast? Don’t complain about your leptin problems then. To get where you want to be, you must do things you have not done before.

Last edited by sunday; 12-17-2012 at 09:35 AM..
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #60
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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Hi Sunday, sorry this has taken me so long to get back to your question about my fasting experience on Juddd. For approx 6 months i was faithful to my UD/DD rotations, keeping DD's under 500cals. I found weight training a challenge on Juddd so instead I walked everyday thinking that would keep me in shape. But when my doctor saw me he could tell I had lost muscle mass just by looking at me. And when I did try weight lifting I found I had no strength in my arms. I was quite surprised and I didn't need any more proof. My doctor told me to drink protein powder but I see Paul J doesn't recommend it. So it definitely is lack of protein but I believe the longer fast, and lack of nutrient rich foods may contribute too. I think as Juddd has become so popular it is good to be aware of this potiential problem. But one thing is for sure you and the many posters here are a wealth of knowledge and experience and we can only benefit by sharing what we know, I for one have learned so much coming here and it may not be often but I can't stay away.
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