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Old 02-02-2013, 09:46 AM   #451
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Okay, this is very touching and worth a viewing if you have time. Fecal transplants are amazing for children or adults with C Diff.

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Old 02-02-2013, 10:02 AM   #452
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Hi Marie! Those rotisserie chickens will be perfect!!! I am saving every single bone from DH's hot wings, (he is addicted) and I place in ziploc bag in freezer. As you can see from her video that one chicken makes a great bunch of broth. I was at the Natural Grocer yesterday and one of the ladies who I love to get advice from, told me, in her opinion, the best bone broth comes from chickens. The most important thing to remember is adding the vinegar when making BB.

Roasting the bones beforehand is not necessary, but will produce a darker, deeper rich broth. More taste. I season my broth with lots of my fav seasoning so it is quite flavorful. The paleo peeps have so many great ideas on bone broth, I have started following some of their blogs.

A couple of my fav blogs that you can get some wonderful ideas from are ~

nom nom paleo (she makes hers in the slow cooker) I do as well.

Wellness Mama
She has an excellent page on all of the benefits. She really expounds on the healing of the gut through bone broth. She says that their is an excellent doctor, Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, who has shown how BB can improve digestion, allergies, immune health, brain health and much more.

West Price Foundation Has excellent page dedicated to broth and the many different types. Sally Fallon suggest including the gizzards and chicken feet into the broth. They also suggest a company that sales BB in many different forms, name of the company is "real bone broth".
I make bone broth every week, usually from both beef bones and chicken or turkey bones. I roast the bones at 400 for 1 hour first, turning at the half-way point, then cook 6+ hours on low with filtered water, salt, and apple cider vinegar (I use 1/4 cup, but probably at tablespoon would be enough if you don't like the taste.) I put chicken feet into my chicken or turkey broth. Sometimes my food coop sells poultry cuts marked as "soup bones" but when that isn't available I use wings. For beef broth, I sometimes use oxtail, add a small can of tomato paste, some paprika, and a glug of red wine. I chill the broth and remove most of the fat that rises to the top. It's really delicious and sustaining. I don't have joint/bone problems at this point, but I am hoping that eating at least a cup of bone broth daily means I put them off as long as possible.

I've made bone broth from pork soup bones and lamb soup bones, too, but I prefer the poultry and beef broth. If I buy a rotisserie chicken, I don't need to roast anything; I just put the bones and skin and gelatin bits into the pot with water, salt, and apple cider vinegar.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:14 AM   #453
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Clackley provided a lead to an interesting article about the role of healthy bacteria and how a fecal transplant can be beneficial for people who have digestive problems that don't respond to drugs. Google "Michael Specter Annals of Science New Yorker" to pull up the article. It made a lot of sense to me.
I just tried to post a story about a young boy who had c-diff and was completely healed by receiving his mother's fecal transplant. It was very touching. Evidently, this is very big in Europe & Canada. It is just now being tried across the US.

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I make bone broth every week, usually from both beef bones and chicken or turkey bones. I roast the bones at 400 for 1 hour first, turning at the half-way point, then cook 6+ hours on low with filtered water, salt, and apple cider vinegar (I use 1/4 cup, but probably at tablespoon would be enough if you don't like the taste.) I put chicken feet into my chicken or turkey broth. Sometimes my food coop sells poultry cuts marked as "soup bones" but when that isn't available I use wings. For beef broth, I sometimes use oxtail, add a small can of tomato paste, some paprika, and a glug of red wine. I chill the broth and remove most of the fat that rises to the top. It's really delicious and sustaining. I don't have joint/bone problems at this point, but I am hoping that eating at least a cup of bone broth daily means I put them off as long as possible.

I've made bone broth from pork soup bones and lamb soup bones, too, but I prefer the poultry and beef broth. If I buy a rotisserie chicken, I don't need to roast anything; I just put the bones and skin and gelatin bits into the pot with water, salt, and apple cider vinegar.
Thanks Sven! I have come a long way in my broth making! I have just been picking up bone from my Natural Grocer and local butcher, but decided today to go ahead and order the bison knuckle bone cartilage and lamb marrow bones. I just watched a video where one of Sally Fallon's fan had made 12 batches of broth from the same bone. She just kept reusing and was able to get gelatin each and every time. Amazing.

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Beverly, thanks for passing along Sam Snyder's excellent summary. My wife and I still have about 65 pages to read in the PHD book and may not have gotten to some of these points yet.

BTW, the Ask Bryan podcast had an excellent interview with Paul Jaminet on Jan 25th. Well worth a listen.
Terry
Thanks Terry! I hope you can join us and give us any other info that we may need guidance with. I purchased his 2nd edition, but I forget that he has two. Most of the stuff that I posted on page 1 came from his own website which I know is updated daily.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #454
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Forget the transplant. No way. I know we're all one, and all of that, but that is not for moi.
I'm pretty pleased with things here, except for spending large chunks of the day sitting on my rear end, writing. My body really felt it when I retired from a clinic where I was always on my feet. I didn't appreciate how much energy that used. Don't know a way around this change, though.
I do snowshoe and ski and hike trails all winter (and you are all most welcome to visit), and LOVE my kayak in the summer, so I think I'm okay with that part. I suspect that exercise for pleasure is healthier, somehow, than punitive exercise.
I suspect this diet has steadied my physiology somehow. Fewer cravings, fewer migraines, far fewer energy crashes when exercising. I feel much, much healthier than when I started Juddding, at which point I was eating delicious junky crap. I loved it, granted, but it wasn't sustaining.
(I'm hopeful that this diet will lead to a no-counting, no-obsessing, easy way to eat and live. The calorie counting works for me, but it isn't the picture I hold for my future.)

I think that my remaining tendencies toward excess are psychological and habitual. I think. And I'm making great headway there, too.

Thanks again for everybody's efforts, here. It's a pleasure learning from all of you.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:18 AM   #455
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Yes, Judy, I agree that organic/free range would be the best and most nutritious.

From the Weston Price site...


If you do use other than free range/organic, the following is important.

From Weston Price...



Judy, if you can find something resourceful that would state dangers of using the non-organic, I really would like to have it to quote here. I will also search in the meantime.

Everything I have read is just one whole chicken to make one pot. I have not found the amount of bones stated ??? (5 lbs of bones). Of course, again, the thought is that one whole chicken should make enough broth for one week. I am not drinking it all day, so maybe if I were, then it would not be ample?
Interestingly, when I've been making bone broth from grassfed been bones and organic and humanely raised turkey and chicken bones, I find that I don't get much scum that needs skimming. Fortunately for me, the rotisserie chickens that I buy at my food coop are also organically and humanely raised. I'm really lucky to have access to grassfed and organic/free range meat and poultry in my neighborhood, but I often buy out the store's supply of "soup bones" on display when I do my weekly shopping. When I can't find beef soup bones, I use oxtails or cheaper cuts of beef that have a high ratio of bones to meat.

Sorry that I didn't show the opening quote properly; I meant to show the Westin Price Foundation quote about how it's necessary to skim scum from bones from less desirable sources.

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Old 02-02-2013, 10:26 AM   #456
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I am so excited to be reading my PHD! I skipped to the fasting chapter and will report back any good that I have gleaned. Just as Kristin has mentioned, I am finding the material quite interesting.

I have only skimmed the "Primal Body, Primal Mind" by Nora Gedgaudas, but find that now that I am reading PHD, I really want to go back and re-read about the gut and the immune connection. Also, I see so much that I wish to read in depth on, "Leptin & Hormonal Connection, Circadium Rhythm, Using Insulin/Leptin to our Advantage, Addrenal Exhaustion, Where does ADD/ADHD fit into all of this?"
I think you would also like the book "Practical Paleo" by Diane Sanfilippo. Her chapters on digestive health are particular clearly written.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #457
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I am so excited to be reading my PHD! I skipped to the fasting chapter and will report back any good that I have gleaned. Just as Kristin has mentioned, I am finding the material quite interesting.

I have only skimmed the "Primal Body, Primal Mind" by Nora Gedgaudas, but find that now that I am reading PHD, I really want to go back and re-read about the gut and the immune connection. Also, I see so much that I wish to read in depth on, "Leptin & Hormonal Connection, Circadium Rhythm, Using Insulin/Leptin to our Advantage, Addrenal Exhaustion, Where does ADD/ADHD fit into all of this?"
I think you would also like the book "Practical Paleo" by Diane Sanfilippo. Her chapters on digestive health are particularly clearly written and informative.

OOPS, sorry that I posted twice!

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Old 02-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #458
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I have been reading about he fecal transplants too. It is both fascinating and gakky all at the same time. I imagine some ingenious soul will find a way to make it less icky.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:36 AM   #459
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I agree that you are making the best decisions for your life. I need to find the DE and begin that as a daily health supp. Also, NO more fear about food. It shouldn't be that way. Really.

Also, one thing to point out about the Jaminets and their book. He is maybe a bit too obsessed with organic and anti-biotic free foods. His obsession has a lot to do with his own personal health issues. He was very sick from long term anti-biotic use when he was diagnosed with an illness requiring anti-biotics. This is one reason that he began searching for ways to cure himself (his gut) and take back control.

Interestingly, I have noticed that since moving to paleo and completely ditching sugar, wheat and processed junk, that I no longer come down w/ bronchitis, the flu, or every virus that comes around. Very simple measures that didn't require eating specifically organic, yet they changed my life!

I work daily with hundreds of college kids and come into close contact with many. I can remember being laid up for a week every winter due to catching everything from the flu to strep to bronchial/respiratory bugs. I have to think that this one small change in my diet may have helped me to build my immune system. I do take a few supps, but I am not a person who likes to supplement. I prefer to eat my nutrition and pray for the right mix to help my longevity.
I also have been free of any kind of infectious illness since dropping sugar, grains, etc. and eating lowcarb/primal. Pretty much everyone in my workplace (around 120 people) has been sick with some bug or other lately, but I've managed to miss them. This will have been the first year in decades that I didn't get bronchitis (as a former smoker). I may just have been lucky, but I think that my immune system does much better on this WOE, and a whole lot of small but irritating health problems (acne, eczema, IBS, acid reflux, circadian rhythm disorder) have disappeared, too. So I'm trying to prioritize eating a very healthy diet (or what is healthy for me, which doesn't complete align with PHD) with losing weight.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:40 AM   #460
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Forget the transplant. No way. I know we're all one, and all of that, but that is not for moi.
I'm pretty pleased with things here, except for spending large chunks of the day sitting on my rear end, writing. My body really felt it when I retired from a clinic where I was always on my feet. I didn't appreciate how much energy that used. Don't know a way around this change, though.
I do snowshoe and ski and hike trails all winter (and you are all most welcome to visit), and LOVE my kayak in the summer, so I think I'm okay with that part. I suspect that exercise for pleasure is healthier, somehow, than punitive exercise.
I suspect this diet has steadied my physiology somehow. Fewer cravings, fewer migraines, far fewer energy crashes when exercising. I feel much, much healthier than when I started Juddding, at which point I was eating delicious junky crap. I loved it, granted, but it wasn't sustaining.
(I'm hopeful that this diet will lead to a no-counting, no-obsessing, easy way to eat and live. The calorie counting works for me, but it isn't the picture I hold for my future.)

I think that my remaining tendencies toward excess are psychological and habitual. I think. And I'm making great headway there, too.

Thanks again for everybody's efforts, here. It's a pleasure learning from all of you.
Have you considered trying a standing desk for some of your writing, Joyjoy? My workplace has started ordering them, but so far only the computer programmers and head administrators have gotten them (I requested one but have been told not to expect one any time soon.) They allow you to avoid sitting for hours, but if you want to sit, you can do so using a high chair at the standing desk.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:46 AM   #461
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Have you considered trying a standing desk for some of your writing, Joyjoy? My workplace has started ordering them, but so far only the computer programmers and head administrators have gotten them (I requested one but have been told not to expect one any time soon.) They allow you to avoid sitting for hours, but if you want to sit, you can do so using a high chair at the standing desk.
Sven, I have contemplated it. Thanks for the reminder. It's time I looked again.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:47 AM   #462
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Have you considered trying a standing desk for some of your writing, Joyjoy? My workplace has started ordering them, but so far only the computer programmers and head administrators have gotten them (I requested one but have been told not to expect one any time soon.) They allow you to avoid sitting for hours, but if you want to sit, you can do so using a high chair at the standing desk.
I recently saw one with a small treadmill underneath so you can walk slowly while you work.

Very cool, but I don't sit that much.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:50 AM   #463
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Sunday, you are doing so well!! i just know you will hit your goal weight!!
Thank you Bev. I am enjoying this path. I really believe & pray that PHD path will help heal your IBD.

Kristin, I am positive that most of my obsessive eating traits were from stress and now feel confident that I can transition to "no counting". I think I will always fast in some form, but not JUDDD, the 5:2 or even 16/8 should be ample fasting for us if we eat healthy, right?
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:57 AM   #464
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Just dropping in to say, that I am eating PHD daily now and love it. I have yet to finish the book, but the only thing that I am not thrilled about is dropping the beans. I think I can live with the rest, but the thought of not ever having black eye peas or black beans is really bothering me. I would love to hear from others who have overcome this.
I used to use legumes as a vegetarian staple but have given them up now. Initially I used can black soybeans in chili, as a the lowest carb legume, but I've learned to like chili without beans.

I wonder if it would be easier to think in terms of "only occasionally eating" rather than "never ever having"? If you basically followed the PHD and didn't eat legumes on most days, but occasionally did so as a treat (say, having Hoppin John on New Year's Day, or black bean soup at a restaurant rarely), then I don't think that would greatly undermine your health.

I used to think of legumes as a food that I should eat as often as possible, and I basically ate cheaply through grad school by living on lentil and split pea soups that I made over and over. Now I understand some reasons not to eat legumes often or in large portions, but I'd feel better about eating a legume serving as an occasional treat than I would about, say, eating a loaf of wheat bread or a sugary dessert.

I don't really eat a whole lot of food any more, since I am doing just fluids plus a little cream on my JUDDD DDs; on my up days, I crave liver, salmon, eggs, cheese, and big salads and roasted vegetables. So I guess that I might someday decide to treat myself to some legume-heavy food--say, some hummus with veggies from a buffet--but there are things I'd rather eat now, and I have the rest of my life to occasionally eat some if I really start craving legumes. So far, I haven't missed them.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:01 AM   #465
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I recently saw one with a small treadmill underneath so you can walk slowly while you work.

Very cool, but I don't sit that much.
Now, that would be very cool. I brought an extra kettlebell to my office, so that I could do some kb once every hour. I just walk around the campus when the weather is right.

Kristin, you are in the perfect place for writing! I would love to have your views! I can't imagine that you aren't getting enough exercise though, but yes, I need to remember and back away from the pc. Lots of time passes when you discover good info, like I learn here.

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Old 02-02-2013, 11:03 AM   #466
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Kristin, I am positive that most of my obsessive eating traits were from stress and now feel confident that I can transition to "no counting". I think I will always fast in some form, but not JUDDD, the 5:2 or even 16/8 should be ample fasting for us if we eat healthy, right?
Sunday, I trust this'll happen for both us. It makes me soooooo happy.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:11 AM   #467
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Sunday, I trust this'll happen for both us. It makes me soooooo happy.
Me too. Calm and no worries.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:20 PM   #468
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I'm not understanding the JUDDD fasting time as 36 hours? What is 5/2 and 16/8?

I think 5/2 is fasting 2x a week but 16/8...is that fast 16 hours a day then eat during an 8 hour period? Can you still get the Sirt1 benefit doing this?

I'm loving hearing about calmness and contentment on a PHD! I am trying so hard to learn better behaviors and it makes me want to do something bad...like binge, which I don't normally do.

I guess I'm going to have to get the book.....
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:26 PM   #469
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I can't quit reading. I suggest to all who have any questions, to please go to the Q & A on his site and ask away! He is answering promptly.

Also, I can't wait until he has his forum up and running. I will enjoy learning.

Hmmm, for some reason my calorie site which (I can't name here) is down a lot recently and so when I go to click on my nutritional info, it sends me to an error. Guess, this is a sign that I need to break down and buy a membership.
Bev, I will be trying to copy and paste my menu this afternoon. I want to give you the nutritional breakdown, because that is very crucial.

Foods that I eat quite often and rotate are~ Eggs, Turkey, Bone Broth (chicken) will be making beef this week, Tilapia, Salmon, Shrimp, Halibut, Bison, Roast beef, parmesan, muenster, farmer's, swiss, cheddar, & Gruyere
Sauer Kraut, all fermented veggies, salsas (both verde & reds) greek yogurt, kefir, blueberries, lemons, apples, strawberries, green beans, sweet tater, yukon golds, tomatoes, jalapenos & all peppers, onions, pumpkin, squash, zucchini, avocado, artichoke, kale, romaine, arugula, spinach, brocolli, cauli, cabbage, & black/green olives.

I cook always with EVCO & sporadically OO. I use OO in dressings, butter/ghee on lots of veggies/egg omelets and Braggs liquid aminos in place of soy, although, I recently purchased Coconut Aminos & will definitely be using it as well.

On his list of using sparingly or gently~ (UD only)
I have not given up black eye peas or cream. I do use Coconut Creamer in my coffee, but love hwc mixed with cream cheese for fruit clouds. And last but most certainly not least, wine (reds/white) fav Pinot Noir & Grigio*
& DARK Chocolate w/ sea salt & almonds.

I have not changed my UD/DD 1600/400 numbers, but noticed right away, that my hunger is decreasing substantially. So, I have been eating a little less for UD & a bit more or the same on DD. I am transitioning to fasting every day for 14-16 hours, so I may find that I do not need to restrict, because of the daily fast.
I will be the hamster in this little science project and will record my weigh ins/food/cals daily and report if it does, in fact, make a difference?

*banned until March, (self-imposed NY resolution).

Oh, full disclosure. I will probably never eat organ meats unless it is the turkey/chicken gizzards. I do agree that it is healthy and probably tasty. Just not my thing.
May I ask a question? I see that you say you are moving toward fasting every day for 14-16 hours, while maintaining JUDDD cycling of 1600/400 calories. I can do 400 or fewer calories on DDs (even 100-200 calories), but I'm soooo hungry on UD following them that I have to eat a fair amount of my calories early in the day on an UD. I guess that I can easily keep my puny calorie allotment within a narrow time window on DDs, but I can't imagine waiting to eat so long on DDs without going crazy. This is even with a diet that is very low carb, with no junk, no grains, no sweeteners, and mostly healthy fats, proteins, non-starchy veg, and bone broth.

Have I just not been doing JUDDD long enough (3 months) to have such self control in timing and delaying intake on UD? Or a YMMV thing? Or are you just way more self-disciplined than me in keeping your food intake in a narrow time window?
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #470
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I'm not understanding the JUDDD fasting time as 36 hours? What is 5/2 and 16/8?

I think 5/2 is fasting 2x a week but 16/8...is that fast 16 hours a day then eat during an 8 hour period? Can you still get the Sirt1 benefit doing this?

I'm loving hearing about calmness and contentment on a PHD! I am trying so hard to learn better behaviors and it makes me want to do something bad...like binge, which I don't normally do.

I guess I'm going to have to get the book.....
5:2 is the new fasting plan that Michael Moselely (BBC Horizon documentary) wrote a book about and also has a website. You have 2 fasting days that are set, for instance M/Th and the rest of normal days. Not truly UDs as in eat till you drop either.

Jaminet says that we need only fast for 16 hour daily. Which if you think about it is much easier than 36 hours eod. Yes, Sirt1 is activated and going strong. I have been doing about a 7 hour window and feel great. No way that I can binge either. Not enough time.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #471
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Thank you for bringing the tater hack to me! I had looked at PHD when it first hit the bookshelves, but was intimidated by all of the starch. After reading so much success with tater hack and on MDA, I noticed that I felt the same way when I had a baked tater during the mid day. What a great revelation for me!

I wonder if I will ever be able to eat as much as Dr. Jaminet recommends though? Basically, that is the only struggle that I am having. I love veggies more than anything, but my fast paced life keeps me from being able to have big meals. I am doing about 1400-1600 UD and 600 DD following the PHD.

DD's consist of mostly Bone Broth plus added veggies. I just love bone broth so much and have been savoring it like a long lost connection with my grandmother. Just went online and ordered my 1st veggie culture starter from Body Ecology and will be making Salsa Verde & Reds fermented. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I am also very excited because my daughter is interested in incorporating PH for her children & husband as well. She made her 1st bone broth yesterday and is freezing up portions in ice trays to add to their daily meals.
Just ordered her the books, "Nourishing Traditions" and "Wild Fermentation" by Fallon & Sandor Katz.
The "Naked Food Cookbook" has a lot of fermented foods recipes that you might like, too. The authors are Margaret Floyd and James Barry.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #472
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Also, Blonde, and anyone who has battled with thyroid. Dr. Jaminet recommends Coconut Oil or MCT to help during the fasting period. Not much, just 1 tbsp. I just noticed the other day, that I have been not needing my Armour thyroid full dose because I can tell my thyroid is humming in full force, so I cut back to one per day. The healing benefits of CO are truly amazing.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:45 PM   #473
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Have I just not been doing JUDDD long enough (3 months) to have such self control in timing and delaying intake on UD? Or a YMMV thing? Or are you just way more self-disciplined than me in keeping your food intake in a narrow time window?
Sven, I just thought I would try the 16 hours because I am tired of counting every UD. I never could eat the full 1600 calories unless eating out. What you will find out on PHD, which it sounds like you are already eating this way, is that your body becomes so nutritionally sated that you lose weight by eating the right foods and you don't hunger. If you have hunger, then you may want to check and see what you may be forgetting to eat nutritionally. Dr. J will answer any question and really can help solve the problem you may be having.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #474
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Marie,

Yes, that is what I am saying and CO is just fine and in fact, Paul recommends it strongly. I never read the Shangri-La plan, but the Jaminets believes that CO during fasts is important and it is a main part of that plan. I have been using the CO to cook with, but mix the MCT oil in my coffee w/ butter. He also suggests that butter is fine during this time of no protein.

I am working my way back to having my last meal at earlier time (4), so that I can have a true breakfast. I am curious if it will be easier. Let me know how it feels for you. I notice that I had quite a bit of hunger the 1st evening, but drank hot tea and then went to bed early. After that it was not an issue at all.
Ahhh, I think this answers my question about how to knuckle through a fasting window on a hungry UD following a DD. I could definitely make my UD calories into an 8 hour window if I were able to eat minimal-protein fats (such as coconut oil, butter, or cream in coffee or tea) early in the day on UDs, and just kept protein consumption in the 8 hour window. Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:01 PM   #475
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Sven, I just thought I would try the 16 hours because I am tired of counting every UD. I never could eat the full 1600 calories unless eating out. What you will find out on PHD, which it sounds like you are already eating this way, is that your body becomes so nutritionally sated that you lose weight by eating the right foods and you don't hunger. If you have hunger, then you may want to check and see what you may be forgetting to eat nutritionally. Dr. J will answer any question and really can help solve the problem you may be having.
Thanks, Sunday. It's hard to imagine what I am missing, since I was eating pretty much according to the PHD even before I had heard of it. If I go down the checklist of what he recommends, I'm eating pretty much everything except for the safe starches, and I'm afraid to eat them because I am so insulin-resistent. I am also really weightloss resistent and have had to combine multiple techniques (JUDDD, paleo/primal, limited carbs and only moderate protein) to have success losing weight. Maybe I'd not be hungry if I ate to satisfaction every day, but I am eating just 200-300 calories on DD, which does leave me hungry. And eating the PHD way (minus the safe starches) without the JUDDD lowcalorie DDs resulted in very little weight loss for me.

Anyway, I think I can cope with the hunger if I just confine my protein consumption to the 8-hour window and eat fat (in coffee or tea) only early in the day.

I really appreciate all the information and thought you have put into this thread. Thanks for being so supportive of others, instead of just taking care of yourself.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:08 PM   #476
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AS I threw some a few lima beans into my otherwise PHD soup, I decided to find out why legumes were considered harmful by Jaminet. If you bing "legumes toxic" the first result is an abstract on legume toxicity which is beyond my education. However, the following is a nice simple bit that makes more sense if you are strictly paleo. PHD does seem to be mostly paleo in practice, though admittedly, I don't know all the rules. So perhaps the legume thing is all about the cooking method.

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Legumes

Legumes are plants of the pea and bean family that have seeds in pods, distinctive flowers and typically root nodules containing symbiotic bacteria able to fix nitrogen. Peanuts are a legume (definitely not a 'nut'); coffee 'beans' are actually a berry, not a legume.

Considerations
1. legumes contain alkaloids that the plant family has evolved to protect them from insect attack.
These alkaloids are also toxic - in varying degrees - to humans

2. these toxins can be broken down by cooking; and there is no evidence that suitably cooked legumes harm humans

3. the fact that cooking is required to render legumes harmless is the criterion used to exclude them from a Palaeo diet.
This does not apply to meat as:
(i) meat can be eaten uncooked
(ii) beans require neolithic cooking technology - a cooking pot.

Uncooked snow peas are often added to salads in contemporary Western cuisine without cautions or apparent ill effects. This success encourages many Palaeo eaters to grant an exemption to snow peas from the general proscription on legumes.

More information about the exclusion of legumes from a palaeo diet in Ben Balzar's paper.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #477
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Just out of curiosity, have you noticed appetite suppression from fasting? That happened for me about 4 weeks into JUDDD. Now that I fast every day for 16 hours, and I have no hunger. Some days, I eat because I fear that I am not going to have optimal nutrition.

On weight loss being slow, I can empathize. Not sure what it is about being my age right now, but my weight loss has lots of stalls.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:14 PM   #478
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The "Naked Food Cookbook" has a lot of fermented foods recipes that you might like, too. The authors are Margaret Floyd and James Barry.
Marking this for my library run.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:22 PM   #479
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Also, Blonde, and anyone who has battled with thyroid. Dr. Jaminet recommends Coconut Oil or MCT to help during the fasting period. Not much, just 1 tbsp. I just noticed the other day, that I have been not needing my Armour thyroid full dose because I can tell my thyroid is humming in full force, so I cut back to one per day. The healing benefits of CO are truly amazing.
I eliminated CO for a trial because of a persistent faint diffuse itchy rash all over my belly. The rash went away. I am reintroducing CO as of yesterday to see if the rash returns. I was using quite a lot of it so hope moderation will allow me to use it. I do not find the hunger is less with BPC, though, I think the energy level is better.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:57 PM   #480
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AS I threw some a few lima beans into my otherwise PHD soup, I decided to find out why legumes were considered harmful by Jaminet. If you bing "legumes toxic" the first result is an abstract on legume toxicity which is beyond my education. However, the following is a nice simple bit that makes more sense if you are strictly paleo. PHD does seem to be mostly paleo in practice, though admittedly, I don't know all the rules. So perhaps the legume thing is all about the cooking method.
Cici, my (limited) understanding is that people who are very focused on nutrition from a paleo or "traditional healing foods" perspective emphasize that many seed-like elements of plants have some levels of toxins to repel insects, and that these parts of the plant are best eaten after careful preparation, such as soaking and sprouting. I've read that for grains, for legumes, and for nuts (or at least soaking raw and then drying, for nuts). I don't really miss eating legumes and grains, don't consider them lowcarb enough to include in my WOE, and don't want to go to the trouble of pre-preparing them like this, however. The "Naked Foods Cookbook" talks about this in some detail, and that may be true of "Nourishing Traditions," too.
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