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Old 01-28-2013, 10:02 AM   #331
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PHD Enthusiasts = FUD BUDDDs? Which would make some of us JUDDD FUD BUDDDs? Maybe I'll shut up now.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:05 AM   #332
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May I join the party?

Life has been really busy lately. It took me two days to remember, find, and read through this thread.

And I laughed my way through it.

Oh, not laughing at you or at PHD.

Laughing because for months and months now - and entirely inadvertently, just eating what feels best to me - I have fallen into something that seems to approximate PHD pretty closely. I am still kind of recovering from the hernia and consequent surgery, my body has still got some inflammation...but, wow, PHD (in a JUDDD eating pattern because, so far, my body really loves the rotation) sounds good!

I ordered the book.

Beverly (and I am not sure if this is according to PHD protocols, so someone slap me down if I am incorrect) I beat an egg yolk into cool bone broth, added water to thin things down a bit, simmered. Added a twist of sea salt. The result was a thick, creamy, filling, and unexpected delicious soup.

Yes Sunday, the egg shell went into the gently bubbling crock pot. I may not be around much, but I am trying to pay attention!
Hey my twin Good to see you and thank you for the egg yolk tip. That is a great idea.
I just am cooling down my bone broth now.When I make my broth, I also put an egg shell in mine along with a strip of Kombu sea vegetable. I flavor with turmeric and pepper for the antioxidant effect. I just am always disappointed to see how little broth I actually have left once I take out the other "stuff" I simmer it with.

Cici, I like having the book to highlight and take to bed (haha), but that website is just as jam-packed full of info and it is current info. I like being able to search the website like Sunday does.

I am LOVING the info on circadian rhythms. Fascinating stuff. I may start looking at a slide show of human faces on the computer each day! Also, I see that I need to stand more!! I also am going to eat my starches later in the day.

The info he has on bowel healing is so important to my healing-- probably the most important thing to me. It really helps explain why fasting got hard for me and why I have such difficulty losing weight. His explanation of vitamin D and K2 are very helpful and I learned the tip to take my vit D in the morning now.

Fascinating info!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #333
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PHD Enthusiasts = FUD BUDDDs? Which would make some of us JUDDD FUD BUDDDs? Maybe I'll shut up now.
Don't ever shut up!! I love your sense of humor so much and I love FUD BUDDDs!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:38 AM   #334
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Bev, I am going to have to read up on eating starches later in the day, rather than early? I missed that one.

And after my last blood tests, the doctor recommended that I supplement with D 5000, but not K2, so I will definitely get the K2. Don't you have to take the D with breakfast because it is oil soluble?

Thanks for sharing knowledge! I am ordering my Rice Bran Oil. Yip!
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #335
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Bev, I am going to have to read up on eating starches later in the day, rather than early? I missed that one.

And after my last blood tests, the doctor recommended that I supplement with D 5000, but not K2, so I will definitely get the K2. Don't you have to take the D with breakfast because it is oil soluble?

Thanks for sharing knowledge! I am ordering my Rice Bran Oil. Yip!
Sunday,
I am trying to remember what chapter I read it in. It was in the book.I hope the PHD improves memory! I was just reading it last night.

I was taking dry vitamin D so that I didn't have to take it with a fat. It was something my nutrition guy suggested for me at one time because of my assimilation problems. Now I am taking regular D3 so I need it with a fat.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:23 AM   #336
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I will have to look at the brand but my d3 comes dissolved in olive oil. 2k per drop. Got it on amazon.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:27 AM   #337
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Oh. Also. He talks about eating starches late in the day in the chapter on circadian rhythms. Carbs are leptin inducing.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:29 PM   #338
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Thanks Ouiz. I found it described on page 376. For those who don't have the book-

Carbohydrates seem to have an especially strong influence upon circadian rhythm, but it is the opposite to that of food in general; they promote night rhythm and sleep. Leptin levels are low in the morning and rise over the course of the day, peaking in the middle of the night. Food also affects leptin: eating fat has hardly any effect on leptin level, but eating carbohydrates increases leptin for four to nine hours postmeal. This suggests that, to enhance leptin rhythm, we should eat most of our carbs around sunset.
This hypothesis was supported by an Israeli study that tested two weight loss diets; the diets were identical except that one concentrated the carbs mostly at dinner. Those who had their carbs at dinner lost more fat and inches from their waist and had less hunger, lower blood glucose, and insulin levels, less inflammation and higher HDL levels. It looks as though fat and protein in the morning, starches and fat at dinner is a recipe for enhanced circadian rhythm.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:46 PM   #339
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Wow, that explains a lot. I feel SO much better when I start off the day with protein and end it with carbs. Also, I did a stint on the carbohydrate addict's diet, and for a long time I did protein/strict induction-style veggies and the "balanced reward meal" which included carbs, at dinner. I guess even with JUDDD calories, PHD type foods, that could be incorporated.

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Originally Posted by sungoddess View Post
Thanks Ouiz. I found it described on page 376. For those who don't have the book-

Carbohydrates seem to have an especially strong influence upon circadian rhythm, but it is the opposite to that of food in general; they promote night rhythm and sleep. Leptin levels are low in the morning and rise over the course of the day, peaking in the middle of the night. Food also affects leptin: eating fat has hardly any effect on leptin level, but eating carbohydrates increases leptin for four to nine hours postmeal. This suggests that, to enhance leptin rhythm, we should eat most of our carbs around sunset.
This hypothesis was supported by an Israeli study that tested two weight loss diets; the diets were identical except that one concentrated the carbs mostly at dinner. Those who had their carbs at dinner lost more fat and inches from their waist and had less hunger, lower blood glucose, and insulin levels, less inflammation and higher HDL levels. It looks as though fat and protein in the morning, starches and fat at dinner is a recipe for enhanced circadian rhythm.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:49 PM   #340
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And Ouiz, (and whoever else) when it says carbs are Leptin inducing, does that mean we WANT more leptin? I get confused with this part. If someone is leptin resistant, and we do the "leptin re-set" as per Kruse, does that mean we become leptin receptive or leptin accepting or ?? arg.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:01 PM   #341
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And Ouiz, (and whoever else) when it says carbs are Leptin inducing, does that mean we WANT more leptin? I get confused with this part. If someone is leptin resistant, and we do the "leptin re-set" as per Kruse, does that mean we become leptin receptive or leptin accepting or ?? arg.
Excellent explanation of the 2 major hormonal influences of Ghrelin & Leptin.

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The two major hormones that control the hunger and satiety cells are ghrelin and leptin. Ghrelin is produced by the stomach and travels to the brain where it turns on the hunger cell and turns off the satiety cell. Leptin is produced by the fat cells of the body and travels to the brain where it turns on the satiety cell and turns off the hunger cell. When you are obese you have lots of fat cells and thus your leptin levels are high. The high leptin levels in combination with high insulin levels turn off the stomach cells that make ghrelin so your ghrelin levels are low. Now if that seems backward, your right. The problem is that high leptin levels over time make the satiety cell insensitive to leptin and low ghrelin levels make the hunger cell hypersensitive to ghrelin. The result is that even though the leptin levels are high and the ghrelin levels are low, the hunger cells are turned on and the satiety cells are turned off.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:07 PM   #342
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Marie, This is why Robin (WLA) is cautioning of eating only up to hunger scale and I agree. I find that I have a hard time eating to make cals on UD due to not being hungry. I am more satieted now than ever before, due to fasting daily and eating optimally. So, the conundrum, of not eating high enough EOD.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:33 PM   #343
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I don't know if you all remember "TaterTot" from the *** forum, but she/he wrote in a question that interests me very much, so I thought I would share for all of our tater fasting folks...

Quote:
tatertotJanuary 28, 2013 at 2:34 pm

Q~Hey, Paul – Need some advice concerning Blood glucose.

Back in my metabolic syndrome days, with fatty liver and all that, my FBG was 110-120. HbA1C was always normal, so never got put on meds. I lost almost 100 pounds with low carb Primal Blueprint over the last 2-1/2 years.

My FBG over the last 2 years has been in the 90′s. When I was doing my famous “Potato Diets”, my FBG would be 90′s, get a spike to 180 after a pound of plain potatoes, then back down to 80-90 within 2-3 hours.

Since Jan 1st, I have been eating 1 pound of potato, rice or plantain a day plus some oranges, bananas, grapes.

I checked my FBG last week and today a couple times at it is 120 at 8am, then will drop to 105 by lunch. I ate a good PHD lunch, and checked my glucose: 160, 120, 95 (1,2,3 hours).

Also since 1 Jan, my body temp has gone from 96′s to 98′s. I am taking 60mg Armour. I have an appointment with an Endo on 15 Feb.

What is your take on this?

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tatertotJanuary 28, 2013 at 2:38 pm

Just to clarify: Since 1 Jan, I have been eating according to the PHD with 1 pound of safe starch along with meat, veg, limited fruit, and other foods you recommend.

A~Reply
Paul JaminetJanuary 28, 2013 at 2:47 pm


Hi Tater,

It’s plausible that your Armour dose is too high and you may need to reduce it.

The high FBG suggests you might benefit from more carbs and protein. You seem to be a bit insulin resistant, possibly due to a bit of stress meeting the body’s glucose needs.

Excessive thyroid hormone due to too much Armour would increase glucose utilization and would make 1 pound potato insufficient to satisfy glucose needs. That could explain the stress. So some combination of eating more carbs, more protein, and less Armour is probably the best solution for FBG.

The higher body temperature might be a normalization, or it might indicate that your equilibrium body temperature is still too low but “two wrongs are making a right”, the other wrongs being too much Armour or too much fat leading to increased heat production.

I think you will have to experiment, but your general tendency should be to expect that you are healing and your Armour dose will be going down over time.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #344
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Hi, all. Thanks again for all your information.
My fascination continues with this idea that malnourishment creates untenable hunger during fasts. I keep wondering whether that might explain why some people (me included) fall off the fasting wagon from time to time despite knowing it works.
This PHDish diet is extremely satisfying for me. Love the broth (omg you should taste the lamb broth in my fridge!), love the kefir, love the potatoes and sweet potatoes (thanks Ouiz), and the rough divvying (sp?) of proteins, carbs, and fat.
Also love hearing the carbs at night thing. I have always used them as a sedative, so this made me laugh.
Thanks for your leadership with this thread, Sunday.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:29 PM   #345
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I would also like to add my many many thanks for all the info and all the posters. Fascinating topic.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:57 PM   #346
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One more tater post... and I promise I will stop. Tatertot lives up to his name.

Quote:
Tatertot December 21, 2012 at 2:34 pm

Paul – I was going to wait until I got your new book to ask this, but since it’s on back-order from Amazon (good for you!) and won’t get here til January, I thought I’d ask now.

You mentioned butyrate as a possible explanation for the success of the Potato Diet.

Butyrate is produced by gut bacteria in the colon and feeds off of resistant starch. One way to increase the amount of RS in potatoes and rice is to cook and cool it. The cooling causes a process called ‘retrogradation’ to occur which re-assembles the starch into resistant starch.

Resistant starch has some ‘magical’ properties. One is that the calorie count of food containing RS is over-stated since the RS is providing energy to gut bacteria and not us, and it is converted to a short-chain fatty acid before we digest it. This would account for the seeming inconsistency of CICO when on the potato diet. Many attribute the inconsistency to muscle wasting, but I think it stems more from an even greater calorie deficit than the data for potatoes indicate.

I have been eating PHD style for some time now with a twist…most of my starch comes from rice and potatoes which were cooked and cooled. This one tweak has seemingly created the perfect storm of satiety, gut health, and weight maintenance. I love sauerkraut–but it hates me, terrible gas! Same as broccoli, cabbage, and some others, but now I eat these with wild abandon! I ate a large bowl of kimchi–a move which would have led to me taking up residence in the garage for two days before, and nary a poot!

I’m hoping the nature of RS is discussed in your new book, along with ways to increase it in foods (cooking and cooling). Any words of wisdom for us concerning RS?

Thanks, and Merry Christmas!
Chris Kesser responds...

Quote:
1. Tatertot that’s interesting.

My concern is with bacteria forming in rice that has been cooked and then eaten later in the day. i have seen concern expressed over its safety,can anyone explain the safest way to eat and prepare pre cooked rice?
Thanks
Chris
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Reply Tatertot


Not sure about rice bacteria, but I have read numerous studies that show the retrogradation of cooked starch occurs best at about 45 deg F or lower, so cooked potatoes or rice should be refrigerated until completely cooled for best effect.

From Wikipedia: Retrogradation is a reaction that takes place in gelatinized starch when the amylose and amylopectin chains realign themselves, causing the liquid to gel.

When native starch is heated and dissolves in water, the crystalline structure of amylose and amylopectin molecules are lost and they hydrate to form a viscous solution. If the viscous solution is cooled or left at lower temperature for long enough period, the linear molecules, amylose, and linear parts of amylopectin molecules retrograde and rearrange themselves again to a more crystalline structure. The linear chains place themselves parallel and form hydrogen bridges. In viscous solutions the viscosity increases to form a gel. At temperatures between –8 and +8 °C the aging process is enhanced drastically.

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Old 01-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #347
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lammmmmmmmmmb brooooothhhhhh, god.

scotch broth was my favorite soup growing up!
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:02 PM   #348
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Kristin,
I have always felt that malnourishment was my issue during this whole last year JUDDDing. I felt good as long as I ate of the PHD type foods on UD, but if I had pizza, bread, drinks, desert, etc. I would pay the piper.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:05 PM   #349
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I saw lamb and I envy.

Oh, and I still break the rules on UD now and then, but I always tell myself, "tomorrow YOU pay!"
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:16 PM   #350
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I wish the taters tasted as good cold.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:37 PM   #351
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Kristin,
I have always felt that malnourishment was my issue during this whole last year JUDDDing. I felt good as long as I ate of the PHD type foods on UD, but if I had pizza, bread, drinks, desert, etc. I would pay the piper.
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I wish the taters tasted as good cold.
^^^^^^^ THAT! Sunday, yes, that is what I have felt as well. I have felt my bowel disease has left me malnourished and it interfered with my weight loss. And I fasted very well in the beginning of JUDDD and then... not so much.

Kristin- I agree. I like taters cold with mayo and pickles and all, but I don't like homemade mayo and taters just taste better hot!!

I have been retrograding my potatoes the best I can. I did it with sweet potatoes and didn't like them at all and I love them hot. I also was adding in Hi-maize resistant starch into my diet, reading it helps with soooooo many issues including the fight against colon cancer. Then I read things about it where it is not so good for people with bowel disease, so I just never know what to do. The conflicting information can drive me insane!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:42 PM   #352
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Beverly~'The conflicting information drives me insane.' Me too Beverly. I've not far to go now....
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:01 PM   #353
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I am cooking my rice in the defatted bone broth. Delish. Any reason not to do this?

Lamb is oh, so good. I have a leg in the freezer. Will have to get it out next. Find recipe for scotch broth. For now, I am still trying to finish off the pork loin which will take some time as I took advantage of a sale in December. Surprised to learn of the O6 content of same.

Kristin, I think it is supposed to be alright to reheat the taters after they have cooled. Once the starch has reorganized, I think it stays that way. Anybody know otherwise? I have been cutting mine the long way into slabs and grilling on my sandwich press until crisp on the outside and warm through. Mostly just adding different spices and salt. Makes a decent enough platform for grilled veggies or a light spread if you are in the mood for something sandwichy.

Sunday, the Ghrelin/leptin connection is probably a key factor in my situation. That is a great explanation. Anybody here do the leptin reset protocol? I may need something like that to get it working correctly. Currently, I do not sleep enough and wake up about 4am and am very hungry all morning in spite of getting about 1/2 my calories before noon. Evenings I don't want to stop eating when I reach my calorie limit. Weight is creeping up. Current stress situation probably contributes to this as well. Need to research how to fix it.

Someone asked about mayo substitutions. I have not found a marketed brand in our markets that fills the bill and love mayo. Have used my immersion blender on a jar of green olives w/pimento to make a sort of pesto. It would be better with oil but I did not add. It is very complimentary for dressing chicken/beef/tomatoes. As there are quite a few things that could be made into pesto (basil, garlic, ripe olives, roasted red peppers, to name a few) , that might be something to try.

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Old 01-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #354
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Beverly~'The conflicting information drives me insane.' Me too Beverly. I've not far to go now....
I am glad I am not alone in this!! Hey in your photo it looks like the background is Carlsbad by the outlet center!!

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I am cooking my rice in the defatted bone broth. Delish. Any reason not to do this?

Lamb is oh, so good. I have a leg in the freezer. Will have to get it out next. Find recipe for scotch broth. For now, I am still trying to finish off the pork loin which will take some time as I took advantage of a sale in December. Surprised to learn of the O6 content of same.

Kristin, I think it is supposed to be alright to reheat the taters after they have cooled. Once the starch has reorganized, I think it stays that way. Anybody know otherwise? I have been cutting mine the long way into slabs and grilling on my sandwich press until crisp on the outside and warm through. Mostly just adding different spices and salt. Makes a decent enough platform for grilled veggies or a light spread if you are in the mood for something sandwichy.

Sunday, the Ghrelin/leptin connection is probably a key factor in my situation. That is a great explanation. Anybody here do the leptin reset protocol? I may need something like that to get it working correctly. Currently, I do not sleep enough and wake up about 4am and am very hungry all morning in spite of getting about 1/2 my calories before noon. Evenings I don't want to stop eating when I reach my calorie limit. Weight is creeping up. Current stress situation probably contributes to this as well. Need to research how to fix it.

Someone asked about mayo substitutions. I have not found a marketed brand in our markets that fills the bill and love mayo. Have used my immersion blender on a jar of green olives w/pimento to make a sort of pesto. It would be better with oil but I did not add. It is very complimentary for dressing chicken/beef/tomatoes. As there are quite a few things that could be made into pesto (basil, garlic, ripe olives, roasted red peppers, to name a few) , that might be something to try.

There is so much conflicting info about reheating resistant starch. I don't think it matters on the PHD, but if you are trying to keep the highest levels of resistant starch, it might make a difference.There are articles that say you must not re-heat it again, and places that say it is perfectly okay, and places that say as long as you don't heat it over a certain degree it is okay. I heat my broth and them take it off the heat and throw my retrograded taters in so they are warm, but not fully heated up. I read a very interesting article about the reheating and I will see if I can find it and post it.
This was one of the theories not to reheat.

Resistant starches, which include fibers and some complex carbohydrate, “resist” digestion by enzymes in the gut. The starches move along to the colon where they are either digested by normal bacteria or excreted. When digested, they become short-chained fatty acids, which provide energy (calories). Because heat drives the chemical reaction that breaks down starch, reheating may turn more of the starch into absorbable carbohydrate, which provides energy in the form of glucose instead of short chain fatty acids.

and

RS3 is present in most starchy foods, which have been cooked then cooled and stored for several hours, up to several months. Retrogradation is a recrystallisation of starch chains, which occurs after gelatinisation when the product has not been immediately dried. Single chains form double helixes. Mainly the linear fraction of the starch, the amylose, is involved; amylopectin, however, can also retrograde, although a much longer time is needed. Cooked and cooled potatoes have been shown to contain RS3 in significant amounts (Englyst & Cummings, 1987). Reheating of starch reduces the RS3 content of the potato, showing that the retrogradation is partly reversible. Several cycles of heating and cooling, however, allow an increase in the RS3 levels.

Cici- that circadian rhythm information on PHD is fascinating and may help you reset your rhythms so you get some sleep.

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:35 PM   #355
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I don't know if this counts as a safe starch, but I'll say acorn squash with butter, nutmeg, and cloves really hits the spot this time of year.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:05 PM   #356
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I don't know if this counts as a safe starch, but I'll say acorn squash with butter, nutmeg, and cloves really hits the spot this time of year.
I love it this time of year. I love mine with butter and cinnamon.

Apparently it is safe starch. Good to know!

"Yes, squash is a safe food. It wasn’t listed only because it has fewer starch calories." - Paul Jaminet
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:14 AM   #357
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Morning All~

Beverly the picture in my avatar was taken on Coronado Island in San Diego. The house behind me faces the beach. Dh and I go to Coronado often in the summer and fall, just out joy riding like a couple of juvenile delinquents.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:49 AM   #358
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Morning All~

Beverly the picture in my avatar was taken on Coronado Island in San Diego. The house behind me faces the beach. Dh and I go to Coronado often in the summer and fall, just out joy riding like a couple of juvenile delinquents.
We must be somewhat close! I used to live in the Golden Hill area and went to Coronado every weekend. It is so beautiful!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:38 AM   #359
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Kristin, I think it is supposed to be alright to reheat the taters after they have cooled. Once the starch has reorganized, I think it stays that way. Anybody know otherwise? I have been cutting mine the long way into slabs and grilling on my sandwich press until crisp on the outside and warm through. Mostly just adding different spices and salt. Makes a decent enough platform for grilled veggies or a light spread if you are in the mood for something sandwichy.

I think this is true. I am going to do more research on this.
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Sunday, the Ghrelin/leptin connection is probably a key factor in my situation. That is a great explanation. Anybody here do the leptin reset protocol? I may need something like that to get it working correctly. Currently, I do not sleep enough and wake up about 4am and am very hungry all morning in spite of getting about 1/2 my calories before noon. Evenings I don't want to stop eating when I reach my calorie limit. Weight is creeping up. Current stress situation probably contributes to this as well. Need to research how to fix it.
Breakfast is important. I did the LR for about 4 months when I began JUDDD. The problem is that I am not sure that it is reset? How do I know for sure?

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Someone asked about mayo substitutions. I have not found a marketed brand in our markets that fills the bill and love mayo. Have used my immersion blender on a jar of green olives w/pimento to make a sort of pesto. It would be better with oil but I did not add. It is very complimentary for dressing chicken/beef/tomatoes. As there are quite a few things that could be made into pesto (basil, garlic, ripe olives, roasted red peppers, to name a few) , that might be something to try.
I love olives and am embarrassed to say this is my weakness. Both Kalamata & Manzanilla. If I lived in Cali, I would seriously grow the trees. I will look into making pesto. I was thinking on the mayo, would rice bran oil work with a portion of EVOO? I am willing to play with it and see what I get.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:40 AM   #360
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We must be somewhat close! I used to live in the Golden Hill area and went to Coronado every weekend. It is so beautiful!
I would love to go back. I visited once.
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