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Old 02-27-2014, 07:16 AM   #391
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Still more questions!!!

Thanks Helene! I'm in Albany, N.Y. !!!
I did go ahead and purchase the book and am a little confused but I'm sure that after a while it will become clear. I have been on Atkins for 6 weeks with little weight loss!!! I have been consuming approx. 20-25 carbs per day....many of them taken up by sweeteners But lately, in desperation for something different, I've been having cottage cheese with fresh raspberries and strawberries with a little Stevia. Now, of course, I see that on MM I cannot have fruit for 8 weeks!!! I'm wondering if all these weeks of Atkins could count towards the MM Step 1 and I could move right into Step 2.
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:19 AM   #392
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???

Also, you say that in MM one is allowed many more carbs than on Atkins but I don't see that. If you can only have 5 for breakfast....then 5 hours later have another 5 for lunch....then 5 hours later have another 5 for dinner....then 5 hours later (which is silly because I am sleeping by 10 pm) 5 more....that only equals the 20 that you are permitted on Atkins. What am I not getting about all this?
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:28 AM   #393
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You dont have to count the carbs in "neutral" foods, such as nuts, seeds (like flaxseeds), nut butters, coconut, fibrous veggies like lettuce, cauliflower, turnips, broccoli, cukes, zucchini, tomatoes are even allowed--10 grape tomatoes a svg or 1/2c tomato sauce a svg. Look at the Arrow Sheet to see what is neutral. Meat, cheese, fats, eggs are of course of neutral too, w/no real carbs in them.
She lists all the neutral foods for you, that you can eat liberally, to satisfy hunger, and then you can ALSO have 5g every 5 hrs of whatever u want, i.e. 1/2 a pc of wholegrain bread, 1/2 a fruit, 3T of beans or sweet pot, 1/2c of plain yogurt.
Some ppl buy the fiber-filler wraps and breads to use as 5x5s so they can have more breads.
You can also eat some more carb b4 exercise if it going to be longer than a 30 min session. She tells exactly how in the book for that too.
Atkins doesnt call any carb neutral nor account for exercise using some up immediately.
MM sorta finetunes Atkins, IMO and makes more realistic for lifetime use. After all, if u can't continue on with any WOE, wat good is it? U'll just regain the wgt. As you age, u'll gain it faster, and more of it too. You have to retrain you brain how to LIVE eating carbs correctly. How to look at food correctly. And get it to be SATISFIED with REAL food, in moderate portions. U will learn this on MM. I can watch a person eat chips and cookies and wash it down with their sugary drink and not care a WHIT. I want an apple or dish of beans and if I've eaten recently, I dont even want it now. I can wait contently till its time to eat again and im actualy hungry. AMAZING!

Last edited by Hélène; 02-27-2014 at 07:37 AM..
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:36 AM   #394
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Still a little confused

Yes but is this only AFTER the initial 8 weeks? And, do you have to count carbs in artificial sweeteners?
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:43 AM   #395
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You could have some fruit on Step 1 but it would be a very small amount. I often use my 5x5 for fruit
I seem to think she does count the carbs in cottage cheese tho. I dont have my bk handy, so maybe someone cud chime in?
Stevia is an excellent and neutral sweetener. You dont have to count the carbs in any fake sugar either, and Splenda is recommended, if not using stevia.
I make lemonade or limeade from lemon/lime juice and stevia for something different to drink. I ream it so some of the fiber gets in their too--YUM. Or you could highly dilute unsweetened cranberry juice. Like 1T to 8oz water. Just to give ur water some taste. I dont do fake sugar drinks, except my diet caffeine-free pepsi wen im desperate. the longer im on MM, the less i need it. if u use milk in ur tea or coffee, u have to count it. Diane doesnt recommend cream.

Last edited by Hélène; 02-27-2014 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:44 AM   #396
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No step 1 is the 1st 8 wks, you get to eat all that neutral carbs stuff the 1st 8 weeks on step 1. Then you continue eating it on step 2 and add in roughly 15g portions of certain carbs at meals on Step 2.
Just keep reading the book, read it over and over. Its rly quite easy

Last edited by Hélène; 02-27-2014 at 07:46 AM..
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:49 AM   #397
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Looks like Helene covered it all : )

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Old 02-27-2014, 08:33 AM   #398
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Grac4 can u look up about cottage cheese for her tho?
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:17 AM   #399
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Low fat cottage cheese is neutral : )
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:41 AM   #400
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a really yummy treat is ricotta w/1T cream, cinnamon, drop of vanilla and 1/2c raspberries, sweeten with stevia as needed. that would count as a 5x5 from the fruit.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:47 AM   #401
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Full Fat vs. Low Fat

I think what confuses me is the difference between Atkins and MM....on Atkins they want you to consume fat (you eat fulfat cheese; heavy cream; reg. sour cream, etc.) and on MM it seems to favor low fat versions of everything.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:17 AM   #402
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Yes MM wants everything lowfat, even not eating egg yolks too much, like 2 a week i think.
Personally, I ignore that lowfat obsession the author has. It's almost impossible to feel satiated with lowfat diets. The new atkins is lowfat too and as u see on this site even, there are pages for ppl following the older versions too as the lowfat is just unrealistic IMO
I have researched a great deal about fats so I am comfortable with higher fat intake. I believe it's why Atkins worked in the first place. The problem w/Atkins is "uncontrolled" carb introduction in Phase 2. That is where MM shines! She has figured out, thru working with thousands of patients, how much and how often and what types for eating carbs in Step 2 and 3.
Bottom line: if u want to follow MM as written, you will eat lowfat.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:30 AM   #403
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Helene speaking of the low fat versus full fat Diane constantly warns that if we eat fat we have to burn the fat we eat before we will burn the fat on our body. Do you agree with that? Do you think eating full fat slows down the progress? I noticed on many sites people consume full fat on low carb diets which really makes it confusing. I eat both really but I got to say this time is going very slow for me. The first time I did MM I ate both also and it was fast results. However this time after finding things to make that are always high in fat like muffins, bread and so on I wonder if that isn't the issue. I did change up my exercise which I read is good to do. Trying to do everything can be quite a process!!
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:36 PM   #404
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Still confused

OMG Grac4....it's a wonder anyone ever loses anything with all this confusing information I'm just not sure what to do anymore
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:43 PM   #405
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She does make this claim a few times in fact, but does not support it at all. I find this surprising, because she's careful to back up her other claims. That's what makes me like this program so much, she shows the physiology behind her protocol.
I tried lowfat also and it made no difference. That's because fat and protein can both be used to produce glucose, it's a process called gluconeogenesis. So by this logic, u shouldn't eat protein either, because your body will burn IT first instead of your fat. Our bodies have to have glucose to convert to a substance called ATP so our cells can function. It's like being given Chinese yen and taking it to the store in Seattle. Ya gotta convert it to American dollars for you to use it. We can make glucose from fat or protein if we need to. We can make protein and fat from glucose also, witness the elevated triglycerides in insulin resistant people. It's not too much fat they're eating, it's too many carbs.
Some diets have you keep track of your protein intake also as it's so common to have it convert to glucose and keep you from losing wgt. Diana Schwarzbein believes the body will send protein to muscles and cell growth before converting it to fat storage but even she says to watch it somewhat if you're not losing. She's very liberal tho...someone my size could have like 90g a day I think. That's alot.
I AM very much opposed to transfats or polyunsaturates like "vegetable" (soy) oil or canola, etc. Saturated fats are much healthier. I use EVO and other monounsats like avocado and olives. Sour cream, heavy cream, butter, fullfat dairy (cheese, yogurt, milk) is most of my fat. Bacon too :0 And for goodness sake's, egg yolks are crammed full of Vit A and other nutrients!
Fat is necessary to absorb minerals and other nutrients. (think milk-->absorption of calcium) You should always eat your greens and salads with some fat to absorb all those great things in the veggies--hey, dressing and butter. Even grains need fat to be absorbed nicely--butter that bread. Any fat soluble vitamin needs fat intake...Vit A, D, E & K.
There is a plethora of info out there about fats if you're interested in learning more. wapf.org is a good start. Mary Enig is a researcher who's done some great work.
Even if you lost faster if you were lowfat, you wouldn't be able to sustain it IMO, cuz food tastes better with fat, we're more satiated thruout the day and we get more health from our food by including liberal amounts of correct (not politically correct lol) fats, whenever we can.
Again, I disagree with Diane on this one aspect of her program. That doesn't negate the great program it is!!

Last edited by Hélène; 03-01-2014 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:44 PM   #406
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mulberry just follow the program as outlined in the book. Step 1 is 8 weeks long. You'll get the hang of it
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:01 PM   #407
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Mulberry like Helene said, follow along as the book says for the 8 weeks but if you have something that isn't low fat I wouldn't freak out about it. I lost the weight making sure I kept the carbs under control more then the fat. It's really all about those carbs!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:41 AM   #408
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Well..I've got to make some changes! I decided to weigh myself this morning(2 weeks before my 8 week Step ends) and was shocked to see a 4 lb gain since Feb 1st. I think the thing that is sabotaging me is that dang bedtime snack. I've been eating a cup of plain cheerios with unsweetened almond milk and 2T of peanut butter. That natural PB will be the death of me! So......I'm going to do a week's experiment and see if changing my snack to a small piece of cheese and a few grapes will work better. I know I didn't gain 4 lbs of fat last month. I ate a bit more and drank a bit more than usual this weekend, so that probably accounts for a couple of those pounds. I'm feeling a bit discouraged. I've been faithfully eating my carb allotment every 4-5 hrs and have eaten no junk.

As per the above conversation, I don't eat low fat products. Perhaps that is part of my problem? Full fat cheese, a TB of coconut oil in my coffee once a day, PB...... I did a lot of boot camp sessions in the month of Feb. Hoping some of the gain is muscle. Whatever it is, I've got to figure it out as I have at least 30 lbs to shift before our Med cruise in October!

Have a good week!
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:47 AM   #409
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Well I gained 2 lbs rite away (which is HALF my loss, mind u) as i entered step 2. Gave myself a week to lose it as Diane says we would. I have gained another lb. as of today so now i basically have been spinning my wheels for the last 5 or 6 wks.
Nice.
i am so frustrated i want to tear things apart, starting with my body!
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:54 AM   #410
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i did go look at highfat, low carb plans on the site here and found a succinct truth...if ur gonna eat high fat, u better eat low carb and if ur gonna eat carbs, u better eat lowfat. otherwise ur prob looking at a heart attack! physiologically it makes sense if u know about LDL and HDL and VLDL and such.
well this group eats NO carbs, like 20-30g A DAY TOTAL (i mean count ur lettuce leaves, ladies) so MM would be considered a very liberal carb plan esp on step 2. so theres some more rationale as to why Diane requires lowfat. its got nothing to do with the "burning the fat in ur diet 1st" claim.
so i am thinking more...i can not live on 20-30g TOTAL a day. no way. i would die of meat/egg/cheese/bacon intake! lol and once or twice a week fruit?? nope, not doing it. i cud do it for a a few DAYS maybe, but thats it.

so i continue on my knowledge quest, whilst staying on step 2.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:59 AM   #411
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lori, i see nothing wrong with the bedtime dam ur doing--almond milk is neutral if its unsweetened and unswt pb is too and then ur 15-20g of cheerios. maybe just cut the milk and eat the cheerios dry with a spoonful of pb? i like to eat protein with any carb but even just the cheerios themselves would satisfy Step 2 requirements.
or the grapes with cheese or pb sounds rite. or even just some nuts...i eat nuts more than pb.
on miracleville is a lady who goes by Lotusblossom, i know her from the old MM forum. she used to eat grapes in the middle of the nite, pop em in her mouth and chew as she went back to sleep lol she was a non and/or slow loser too (older like we are) and was desperate lol
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:46 AM   #412
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I know each time I went back to step 2 I would think to myself, now it will be easier to eat lower fat choices with fruit yogurt and so on. It always seemed step 1 was lots more fat. When I switched to step 2 I definitely cut the fat, it was the sugar that tripped me up. I always stayed in the correct carbs but went above the 5-6 grams of sugar. Of course I could do better with fat choices in step 1 but seems the things I crave have more fat!! Now that I know my mess ups on two I think the third time around I should be fine. Even with my mess ups and doing it my way the gain was pretty slow but of course it happened. I am going to be well prepared and for now I am going to try and get rid of some of this fat I am eating : ).

LotusBlossom is still on MM, she is quite relied on and active on the board. It seems she is kind of second to Diane for being there when Diane is not. There are over 2000 members now so you can imagine there are lots of questions. I can say this much, there is great success with most everyone, it may be slow but they are getting there. That's why I am trying to make sure I follow as close as I can. I do my exercise, drink my green tea daily and get in my fluids, take vitamins etc. Nothing else has worked for me after menopause so I got to stick to it : )
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:53 AM   #413
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Quiet group this week! I'm a bit "down" because of that gain I saw Monday morning. I'm hoping it doesn't stick, but not sure what to do next. I feel really good eating the Step 2 way, but I'm not sure it's working for me. I'm sticking to plan this week, maybe being a bit lax with my 11-20 carbs(as in not enough), but I'm doing my best. I may revert to Step 1 in a few weeks once my supply of Step 2 foods are gone. At least I haven't dived into a box of chocolates or anything drastic like that!

Hope you're all having a good week!
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:10 AM   #414
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Yes, Lori I am thinking after my carb foods are gone i am going back to step 1 also. to see if i can get losing again at the least. as much as i love them, im discovering i love losing wgt more---much to my great surprise. however we will see...in a week or 2 of step1 i may be CRAZY again lol
i do know, every meal i am pretty much FULL after just eating my carb dam. and wen i eat other things little is needed to fill me. soooo maybe my hunger is going down, period, and i will eat little meat and fat on step 1 and lose better.
I know the 1st time i did MM, i continued losing on step 2, very slowly, but i didnt gain or stall. my pants even feel smaller at the waist, STILL.
mite have to just never eat carbs again...idk soooooo frustrated.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:24 AM   #415
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I'm right there with you Helene! I never want to go back to eating sugar and all that stuff on a regular basis, but this precise plan isn't doing it for me either. I'm leaning toward doing low carb my way and see how I do. I can always go back to Step 1, or Dukan which worked really well for me last year.

Let me know what you're doing Helene. I'll support you in whatever plan you choose!
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:06 AM   #416
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so i looked up ur dukan diet. it looks HARD...only protein for 10 days & then basically step 1 but with yogurt too. also it wants low/nonfat. ~ick~
but i mite do a 75% fat thing for a couple weeks w/only neutral carbs & no grains. i mite even try adding 1/2 cups of yogurt 2x day too--for a few reasons.
rite now im trying to accept that grains make me sick. ate oats all wk, 1x day (sick Tues-Thur) & then none on Sat or Sun. Ate again today and my sore throat, etc is back...why did i never get this b4??? very weird & i have gotten to where the 1/2c i was eating was MORE than enough ( i usually ate 1c portions wen im not on MM).
~shrug~
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:08 AM   #417
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Yes Helene, Dukan was killer because of the low fat and I would miss my swiss cheese terribly!! The only thing that saved me on that diet was being able to have my Greek yogurt in the morning. The no nuts thing was hard too. I love MM, just wish my body did!
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:49 AM   #418
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oh gosh, no nuts either; thats rite icky icky icky lol
well i GUESS i cud give up nuts too as i dont seem to eat them much lately. theyre my go to snack wen im just hungry esp those ravenous days i struggle with.
cheese is sumthing i think i am prob allergic to. it makes me hungry, like craving hungry wen i eat it. i always eat more after my cheese. even just veggies, but gotta have something mooooore. i eat the one 1.5oz serving at brkfast so thats fine, but the 1.5-2.5oz more i have during the day always makes me want more cheese or something...i dont let myself eat more than 1.5oz cheese at a time. but i CUD eat about 3 oz cheese 3x a day. I LOVE CHEESE. at least for me, its strikes a craving SIGH. i am not ready to do without cheese in my life. Yet.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:53 AM   #419
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It seems like everyone is a little down lately. It's so frustrating sometimes when you feel like you are doing well and you don't lose anything!

I weighed myself on Saturday (I know I'm not supposed to, but whatever) and was only down one pound from when I previously weighed myself two weeks earlier. I thought it would be a little more, but I'm okay with it bc I really could be doing a better job of working out!

But I'm also trying to remember that it's not about the weight, so much as the fat. I definitely FEEL lighter, and my pants are loose and I do have more energy, so I just try to focus on that, although I like knowing where I'm at on the scale.

As far as full fat vs. low fat, this guy in my office does Atkins and he saw me using fat free creamer in my milk and is like, "Well, look at this." He showed me the full fat creamer and it had fewer carbs per serving than the fat free version. He said it has something to do with what they add to the fat free version... So I don't think it's a big deal whether its full or fat free. If it's an option I'm still going to do fat-free, so long as the taste doesn't matter.

Also, for those of you craving chili, I just bought some Atkins brand freezer meals for days when I don't have time to make lunch and they have a chili with no beans, and it was pretty good! So maybe look for that?

I have 2.5 more weeks on stepped one (I slipped up on the weekend so just added a whole other week... no biggee).

Stay strong, and motivated!!!
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:58 AM   #420
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so dukan worked well, as in u lost and ur body shape changed? u just cudnt keep it up becuz it was boring/restrictive?
see thats my problem on MM is it gets SUPER BORING with no carbs besides the neutral carbs. its not the carbs cravings. i dont rly have those.
this food boredom tho is a documented problem in ppl who have a very restricted diet due to rationing. like wartime wen there arent much foods, or a disaster-time wen emergency foods are brought in. ppl lose their appetites due to boredom. now that wudnt be so bad (if u werent trying to do hard labor and NEEDED the calories) but in our society, its so easy to get the foods we want, unlike rationing times. and when theyre healthy foods, like berries or beans or yogurt or parsnips...its doubly hard to deny urself or not have ppl cajole u to "just eat some damn beans or parsnips" for goodness sakes lol
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