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Old 12-22-2011, 06:04 AM   #61
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you get that whoosh for Christmas, PJ!
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Well, BG was 128 this morning.
Last few days: 130, 127, 119, 133, 115, 112.
Still, I suspect it could have something to do with TOM.
Will continue to observe to see if there's a pattern.

Possible side effect of Fat Fast:
Too much energy!
I think I only got about 3 hours of sleep last night!
Spent 2 hours trying to fall asleep, then got up at 6 to take my son to the bus stop.
I usually go back to sleep for a few hours, but have been up since then.

Saw a slightly new low today, though: 272.8.
Not bad, considering I usually weigh about 4 hours later!
And it's the middle of TOM, and I was up to 275-276 for the last week.
Hoping for a little whoosh before Christmas!

I guess this is a slightly odd place to post this, but don't know where else to go right now...
A low is a low..claim it! Congrats!

oh and I think this is the perfect place to post that. You are straight forward with your remarks about what you are or are not doing. This keeps everyone is well informed.
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:14 PM   #63
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Thanks, everybody!!!
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:45 AM   #64
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I am trying to do this like Tiva that is combining JUDDD and Fast5 and there
may be a real advantage to doing this. In his book Dr. Johnson mentions that
just eating one meal a day which would be one 23hour period per day may not
be long enough to triger the changes we need. In paticular we may need 36 hours
of continous fasting to reduce insulin resistance. And JUDDD does that. But if we
combine JUDDD with Fast5 we will even have a longer fasting period and this might
be even better. Here is why I say this although a lot of studies using mice have
found that making them fast alternet days extends there life span about 40% I
found one study where one group was fasted one day and let eat all they wanted and
another group was fasted 2 days in a row and let eat all they wanted the third day.
Those who had to fast 2 days in a row instead of living 40% longer lived a lot longer
I can't rember a real number but it may have been about 65% any way it was a lot
longer.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:49 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.W. View Post
In his book Dr. Johnson mentions that just eating one meal a day which would be one 23hour period per day may not be long enough to trigger the changes we need. In particular we may need 36 hours of continuous fasting to reduce insulin resistance.
Ah, this is something I've been wondering about. If it's not too much trouble, could you post the page # where he mentions that, or quote it from the book or post a link to anything that addresses that? I'd love to look into it more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E.W. View Post
But if we combine JUDDD with Fast5 we will even have a longer fasting period and this might be even better.
Can you explain how you get a longer fasting period with Fast 5?

My understanding is you eat during a 5-hour window every day. This would give you a 19-hour fast (less, really, if you eat to the end of that window, due to digestion time).

So, even though you'd be eating less on a Down Day, you're still eating, right (but in a smaller window than "regular" JUDDD)? Or do you not eat at all on DDs? In the latter case, I see how that results in a 43-hour fast.


Thank you!
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:24 AM   #66
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It is my understanding that our DD's look a lot like a fast to our body, an inperfect
fast but still a fast. In fact in the scientific lititure they talk about a modified alternet
day fast which is the same thing as JUDDD. So our DD is an inperfect fast. I believe
the animal studies showed the same changes when you used a fast or a modified fast
but the changes were a litte more pronounced with a total fast.

I rember something else Dr. Johnson said on that page something to the effect that
with our JUDDD we end up having a 36 hour fast. So I read that to mean he does
consifer our DD a fast. I will try to find that page again I am sorry now I didn't mark
it.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:05 AM   #67
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The reference to JUDDD being a 36 hour fast is in the second to last paragraph of page
55. Then in the last paragraph of page 244 he says not eating anything is better than
just doing a DD for lowering inflimation and oxidation stress markers but most people simply can't do it. I couldn't find the reference about a 19 hour fast not being long enough to lower your insulin resistance like a 36 hour fast will.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:36 AM   #68
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:18 AM   #69
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I've been MUDDDg my way through the holidays, and all is going well.

Usually I combined both the actual beginning of a FD and a DD with a fast. What I mean is, I start the fast when I go to bed the night before, then unless there is some nice breakfast planned with the family, I don't have anything but black coffee the next day until at least noon, so that I have a minimum 14 hour fast, but usually it goes to at least 15 hours. Then I start my FD or DD eating.

It's just something that works with my natural appetite, so I went with it for the added benefit.

Yesterday I had a full DD of about 750 calories over more than 36 hours. (My DD calories can go up to 800 but usually not). I just felt like I needed a "reset" after Christmas.

Today I weight 139# !!

I wasn't trying to lose either, just intended to maintain as always between 144 - 146#. But I noticed the weight has been dropping all week... Not really complaining though, lol. But remember, I do FDs and the way I'd been going lately, I do not switch back to DD later that day, I just wake up the next day and call it a DD - then start FD again that evening, lol. So that's a lot of FD.

Maybe I will end up with a new set-point in the lower 140s.

I also think I will further shake things up for the health aspect by doing 2 regular JUDDD DDs each week, at least for a while.

So, anyone else have an update?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:23 AM   #70
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I don't really have an update, haven't had a proper DD since before Christmas, just wanted to say WOW!!! Sophie!!!
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:49 AM   #71
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Sophie, your update is awesome!!!

I'm watching with great interest because I've noticed a trend with my eating since before the holiday.

I've had more UDs with halfhearted DDs that turned into UDs, and I maintained. So, I just may have been doing a form of MUDDD and simply not realizing it.

So, now that my house guests have all left, I'll be better able to track and see exactly what's going on.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:35 PM   #72
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Sophie, great news!

My mudding attempt has been awfully--well, muddy. Halfhearted with the holidays. I'm doing a few days of regular JUDD now, with strict (and very high fat, low cal) DDs, hoping that will get me back on track. I just gained a lb over the holidays, so that will be gone, hopefully by tomorrow.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:58 PM   #73
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You guys doing MUDDD should check out the warrior diet. I did this for a while and then went to JUDDD just to get the longer fast but basically you dont eat anything during the day except raw food or whey, maybe a little protein with a boiled egg, then have a huge wonderful dinner. When i was doing it i really liked the ease of it because i didnt have to think at all during the day. I took the same things everyday to work, raw veggies and a homemade protein shake. Then i came home and had a huge dinner. I ended up going back to JUDDD because i just couldnt eat enough at that one dinner and i think it actually made me start gaining weight, which i know is weird, but something went screwy with it. I am liking JUDDD but eventually i may go back to the warrior diet especially when i start maintaining but i think some of you might want to check it out. I have read all of his books and they were fabulous reads and really give alot of info on how fasting is so good for the body. His name is Ori Hofmekler, check his books out. Even if you dont follow the diet I really suggest his books. The science is so awesome.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:14 PM   #74
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Geez I haven't gotten any notifications on this read and it was buzzing with activity.

WTG Sophie!

I have nothing to add or subtract right now...lol
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:57 PM   #75
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So I was wondering, isn't this the same as a normal diet? (where you cut your calories all together, each day). I'm allowed 2000 cals on an UD and 500 on a DD, if I cut those 2k cals in half (half at night, half the next day) as well as those DD cals in half for the same reasons, then I'm eating 1250 cals every day.

On Juddd, its one day UP one day down... but on this it seems its ALL days 1250. O.o... I'm confused.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:28 AM   #76
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thats right but by having a dd you get the magic of fasting.

it works. 2 mts. in and i have lost 15 pounds.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:57 AM   #77
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Plus I think it's a mind set as well. Knowing when and how much you can eat, helps keep some people on track and in control.

I am currently not doing MUDDD but when I did in the past I liked it. I liked knowing that I needed to watch my food intake on a DD from supper thru lunch one day, only to be rewarded with a UD supper where I could basically eat what I wanted (within reason), bed, then have a nice lunch (not much of a breakfast eater), knowing I would be having another DD supper etc. It's another take on calorie reduction/cycling with fasting benefits.

Wow after typing all that, I might just go back to MUDDD as I am currently stalled anyway.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:11 AM   #78
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Still MUDDDg here, though I do variations on it since I'm in maintenance.

I have a full FD, then I have a DD from the time I go to bed that night until 5 - 8 p.m. the next day. After that, I start FD eating again. And it carries on into the next day for another full FD.

Sometimes on the DD, I don't eat very many calories, or sometimes I have 500 - 700 in one meal and then I'm full until FD eating starts again in the evening.

Most days I am also fasting from the time I go to bed until at least 14 - 15 hours the next day, sometimes more. On DD, I drink black coffee until I get real hungry. On FD, I break the fast with whatever foods I want - it starts the FD eating.

This is working for me in maintenance, and in fact, I lost more weight around Christmas without meaning to. I was hanging around 145# but now it's around 140#.

Last edited by sophiethecat; 01-14-2012 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:05 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenn1225 View Post
So I was wondering, isn't this the same as a normal diet? (where you cut your calories all together, each day). I'm allowed 2000 cals on an UD and 500 on a DD, if I cut those 2k cals in half (half at night, half the next day) as well as those DD cals in half for the same reasons, then I'm eating 1250 cals every day.

On Juddd, its one day UP one day down... but on this it seems its ALL days 1250. O.o... I'm confused.

Okay, first of all...with this method I'm thinking of "days" as 24-hour periods, as far as the calorie usage goes. I know this is thinking "outside of the box", but the original animal studies were based on 24-hour periods, not calendar days.

Second, let's say you're dividing your UD & DD calories by 3 meals.
For you, that would be 667 for UD meals and 167 for DD meals.

On a "Mixed Up Day", you would have 2 UD meals + 1 DD meal = 1501
On a "Mixed Down Day", 2 DD meals + 1 UD meal = 1001
(if you want to look at calendar days rather than 24-hour periods)

Have you looked at this thread? 24hrUD/24hrDD experiment
Any questions you might have could be or probably have been discussed over there...this thread was started by/for people who are already using this schedule.

Hope that helps!
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #80
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Ok, so I just read all of this thread and the other one on the JUDDD board, and I think I'm interested in this.

Depending on how you work your start and stop times, it is possible to have a 31 hour 'fast' for you DD. I just sat with pen and paper and worked up a schedule that has an UD of 17 hours and DD of 31. You just have to look at 2 days to see the whole thing. And while if you look at a "day" as waking to sleeping, you have an average of daily calories that brings your UD and DD closer together, if you look at it split, it isn't really that much different that JUDDD--it just doesn't start at the same time.

For my schedule, I assumed breakfast at 7am, lunch at 12 pm and supper at 7 pm. (I alternated the fonts to group the UD and DD together in their block across the "day").

Day 1
7 am breakfast DD
12 PM lunch DD
7 pm Supper UD

Day 2
7am breakfast UD
12pm lunch UD


7 pm Supper DD

Day 3
7 am breakfast DD
12 PM lunch DD

7 pm Supper UP

So my UD would start at 7pm on Day 1 and end at 12pm the next day (17 hours). And then the DD starts as soon as I finish that 12pm meal (not at 7pm, like I think many people were assuming), and ends at 7 pm the following day when I have an UD supper (31 hours). So, it might not be a 36 hour fast, but it can certainly be more than 24 if you want it to be.

I think this would work really well for me. I'm at 3pm on my first dd, and I am STARVING and headachey. I've only had 160 calories so far, been saving them for supper. But I have a feeling I'm still going to be hungry after I eat supper.

Now, I just started JUDDD yesterday, lol. So I could be WAY off base. And maybe I should give it a fair chance before I switch. But this is very attractive to me. I'll see how it goes at supper tonight and make my decision then whether I continue my DD or switch to an UD and MUDDD.

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Old 01-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #81
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mkt--sounds really good, and I'm glad if I helped in any way by sharing this idea!

I have read that the 2-week "induction" is really important to get that SIRT gene turned on, especially the 36-hours fast part of it;
on the other hand, I've also read that a shorter fast works too, it just may take a week or two longer to activate.

I think there are some over in the main JUDDD board who would tell you that you should give it 2 weeks before you try any tweaks like this.

But IMO--(a) the time frame looks close enough to regular JUDDD to get the fasting benefits.

And (b) you could always do this for a couple of weeks as a transition into JUDDD, then try the "real" thing, which might be easier by then.

Let us know how it goes!!!

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Old 01-14-2012, 02:49 PM   #82
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Thanks Jenny. I'm only mildly interested in the weight loss aspect, since I'm just a couple pounds from goal, more so the health benefits, and the long term finding a woe that will work for life. I think MUDDD fits the second perfectly. And no clue on the first. LOL

So I think I'll stick with trying to do it full on JUDDD for 2 weeks (presumably I'll be at goal by then anyway) and transition to MUDDD for maintenance.

I love that there are options.
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:02 PM   #83
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Yes, there are a couple people using MUDDD for maintenance, and it seems to work extra-beautifully!!!

Although many people say they find JUDDD to be easily sustainable for life, I think this schedule is even easier, because you can have at least one "normal" meal per day--really nice if you like to eat with family and friends!

And congrats on being so close to goal!
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:03 AM   #84
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Quote:
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mkt--sounds really good, and I'm glad if I helped in any way by sharing this idea!

I have read that the 2-week "induction" is really important to get that SIRT gene turned on, especially the 36-hours fast part of it;
on the other hand, I've also read that a shorter fast works too, it just may take a week or two longer to activate.

I think there are some over in the main JUDDD board who would tell you that you should give it 2 weeks before you try any tweaks like this.

But IMO--(a) the time frame looks close enough to regular JUDDD to get the fasting benefits.

And (b) you could always do this for a couple of weeks as a transition into JUDDD, then try the "real" thing, which might be easier by then.

Let us know how it goes!!!
Interesting!

There are so many ways to do short fasts, from 12 - 15 hours to a full 24 hour fast once per week. I don't know enough about SIRT1 and what else is activated during fasting that makes it so good for us, but I'm not sure 36 hours is a magic number for the health benefits.

What is it about fasting that is so good for us? Here are a couple things I remember off the top of my head -

1) It gives the body a rest from constantly digesting foods. The organs can take a break from all the work and there is less glucose put out into the bloodstream constantly.

2) When we feel hunger and don't supply our body with food, it turns to old cells to snack on, which then get replaced with new, healthy ones. This is putting it quite simply, but that's the gist of it. By doing that, it can help prevent diseases that old, faulty cells could cause, and also is anti-aging.

What else?

Oh, I also think it's cool that I can still feel that "feel-good" feeling from fasting even when I have eaten lower calories during it, such as most of us do even in regular JUDDD. The other day I had that good body feeling and clarity, even after eating up to 350 calories (not all at once I don't think). Up to 500 calories too. It was only after I broke the fast with a big, heavy dinner of meatloaf and mashed potatoes in the evening that the feeling left.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:47 PM   #85
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I've been reading both threads about the MUDDD and am wondering what the ave loss per week is for those MUDDDg? How long has the original MUDDDer done this and what is the total loss? I'd love to see input from many. How much have you lost in what time frame doing MUDDD or if you did JUDDD how much in what time frame for that WOE?
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:44 PM   #86
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I'm doing juddd I started 11/13 and I have loss 18 pounds
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:26 PM   #87
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Great ideas in this MUDDDing section! I JUDDD and reading about MUDDDing has just given me some more tools to be successful! Thinking about fasting in hours rather than sleep wake cycles gives me some more options to deal with life's rather unpredictable schedule. For simplicity's sake I will stick to sleep as the devission point as I kind of enjoy the longer DD fast (shocker for me!) but I think the MUDDDING ideas will be helpful sometimes. Thanks!
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:51 AM   #88
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Hi - is anyone still doing this? I read about it at the beginning of the week and have been doing it since Tuesday. It's made it much easier to budget my calories (I found myself fudging too much after the first week of JUDDD). It feels very natural to me, and the weight is moving again. I had a great loss the first week of JUDDD, and then just kept bouncing in the wrong direction - it's moving down again.

Has anyone stuck with this system still?
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:56 AM   #89
Blabbermouth!!!
 
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Location: Maintain Lane
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Stats: 170+/135-138/145 5'6 39y pcos/IR/metformin
WOE: WL=LC then JUDDD/IF; Maintenance=IF/75%+ "healthy"
Start Date: LC 6/11; JUDDD 10/11; Maintenance 11/11
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Originally Posted by hippiegirl View Post
Hi - is anyone still doing this? I read about it at the beginning of the week and have been doing it since Tuesday. It's made it much easier to budget my calories (I found myself fudging too much after the first week of JUDDD). It feels very natural to me, and the weight is moving again. I had a great loss the first week of JUDDD, and then just kept bouncing in the wrong direction - it's moving down again.

Has anyone stuck with this system still?
Hi HG! I rotate in and out of different IF systems, and it just so happens I came back to my version of MUDDD last night (after totally blowing a DD due to Pre-Tom hungries! lol). I'll be doing this for at least a week now.

Glad it's flowing for you - isn't it awesome? So flexible! Happy the weight is moving. KUTGW, my JUDDD, er, rather my MUDDD Bud!!
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:09 AM   #90
Mrs. Robbie Williams
 
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I'm a MUDDDY JUDDD BUDDD, lol.

It definitely feels more natural for me. I made my cut off time noon, so on my UD's, I have one "final meal" right before noon, and then eat my DD meal at about 6pm, then just drink coffee the next day until I can start my UD at noon. It fits very well for the way my appetite works. I'm way too heavy to be bouncing up, and I really want something to work, lol.
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