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Old 02-20-2012, 09:13 AM   #151
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I had to give up CO but then Ray Peat mentioned that refined does not have the coconut solids so a better choice.

I buy the organic since it is not chemically refined and am happy w/o the cold sore problem EVCO was causing.

I still use plenty of EVOO and continue to hate tallow.....I made a Dr K broth of beef and pork bone and the tallow odor and flavor was still so strong that I skimmed all the fat and tossed it!!
I'll add some butter.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:57 PM   #152
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Hi, Jem. Hooray for butter. Hope you are doing well. I rather thought you ate smaller portions, too. It's great that chocolate sits well with you.

Shunsweets, I'm sorry about the hives. Going off nightshades, FODMAPs and much of what FailSafe says to avoid, cleared up some skin problems for me. Do you take beta glucans for immune support? It is one of my miracle supplements.

Also, have you ever tried taking lysine when you feel the hives coming on? It helps many canker sores, cold sores, etc., which are related to hives. I use Quantum brand.

I tried putting extra virgin coconut oil in tea, and cooking with it. I don't know if it was the salicylates or what, but I didn't do well with it. I use it on my hair. I use the refined CO in salves and lotion bars. I don't really care for the strong smell of the extra virgin.

The FailSafe reference is one of my mainstays. Am hoping to get through allergy season without as many symptoms this year.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:42 PM   #153
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Auntie Em - thank you for the Bernstein info/links. I love him; I need to re-read the book. I can't believe how much I have forgotten!
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:01 PM   #154
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KT, how very nice of you to post. I, too, need to read, and re-read, and keep myself inspired. I find it too easy to not be deliberate about food and eating choices.

For me, Dr. B has a cheering up effect. I always feel as though I can manage to do what he recommends. He is so full of life and dedication.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:59 PM   #155
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AuntieEm - I haven't tried beta glucans or lysine but I am going to read up on them and maybe order some. Thank you for sharing. My allergies keep getting worse as I age and now I am quite often covered in hives. Seems like every month something new comes up. The same thing happened to my Mom and now at 91 she is allergic to most medications and so many foods it is difficult to feed her. I hope I'm not headed there. She also got diabetes in her 50's just like me. It has to all have a genetic connection. Whatever the source it has made me look at health and diet closely which can only be a good thing.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:04 PM   #156
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Hi KT. I'm so happy to see you. Hope you are doing well.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:16 PM   #157
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Shunsweets, I take the beta glucans each day. It keeps me stronger than I would be without it. I use Doctor's Best from iherb. I take Quantum lysine when I feel canker sores starting. I take it a few times a day, until the feeling is gone. If a sore breaks out suddenly, I have to take lots of lysine. Does artificial sweetener trigger the outbreaks you get? I've read that it does for some. I can't eat packaged, processed foods full of additives, etc., for example. How stressed I feel seems to often determine how severe the symptoms are.

I'm so sorry that the allergies are getting worse. I'll find out in a few weeks, when the pollen rains on everything, if mine have gotten worse since last year. Each year since they appeared, I have improved my diet and lifestyle. Dr. Blake Donaldson wrote in his book, Strong Medicine, that we inherit "shock tissue", and that some of us are allergics, and many, many things can trigger symptoms. Those genetic connections are frustrating sometimes, I know.

I wish you success in healing what you can. I'll be thinking of you being perfectly well.

Jem, hi.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:47 AM   #158
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Good morning Auntie Em. Your post about beta glucans caught my eye. It looks like it is for immune support. Would you mind telling us your experience w/ them?

I am trying to cut down the number of supplements I take as I have not noticed any difference in the way I feel whether I take them or not. I still take vitamin D & fish oil.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:48 AM   #159
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Hi, Heidi. I find the beta glucans just makes me stronger. I get fewer colds, and they are much milder. The pollen allergy symptoms are less. I get fewer canker sores. It just seems to strengthen whatever it is that fights off those microscopic "invaders". There is much on the web about it. I found about it from someone who took it after chemotherapy to heal.

I, too, take D and CLO. I take a bit of pastured butter with them. I find those make a nice difference in how I feel, too.

All the best to you.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:10 AM   #160
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I have also decided to reduce supplements but am interested in hearing about anything that actually makes a difference whether I try it or not.

I stopped the multivites since there is no such thing as one that does not repeat.
I moved to softgels....not bad, then liquid, also not bad but they all have some gut response so I just quit. Same issue w fish oil and CLO.

Kept the D3 which shows the result in my bloodwork. I also take a couple drops of iodine which improved my digestion (that was not my reason for starting it). AND I take a buffered vitamin C.
I have potassium on hand and take it PRN for leg cramps but started a version of Dr B's electrolyte drink which works fab.

My mom was a supplement junkie.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:42 AM   #161
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Jem, that's interesting about the iodine improving digestion. I've had that impression with the iodine I take, but hadn't really worked to pinpoint that it was the iodine.

I, too, have discontinued taking supplements when I felt they made no difference, or caused problems.

Would you mind posting your version of Dr. B's electrolyte drink?

Thanks! Hope your day is going very nicely.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:52 AM   #162
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I think I must definitely be one of the "allergics" as everyone in my family has severe allergies and my Dr suspects my diabetes is from GAD antibodies rather than typical type2. I don't eat any packaged or highly processed food but I certainly have a very high stress level right now so maybe that is partially the culprit.

Like everyone else I have experimented with multiple supplements for both health and diabetes. Haven't noticed much improvement either way but I still take a multiple, CLO, fish oil, K+, magnesium, and nightly melatonin. May add the beta glucan and lysine and see if they help. I'll look for the Dr's best and Quantum brands. Thanks AuntieEm.

Jem my vitamins do repeat if I take them without food but I do OK if I take them before breakfast. Maybe the food holds them down lol. Or it could be my daily huge mug of coffee with coconut oil and cream that I have with my eggs. I agree they might not be necessary at all. Maybe I should try a month without them when this batch runs out. These supplements do get expensive and we are on a budget.

Still reading Strong Medicine but having a bit of trouble getting it to download to my iPad. Get one page slowly at a time. Still enjoying it. Retracing sections of Bernstein too. I think his law of small numbers applies well to those who do best with more frequent small meals rather than IF.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:00 AM   #163
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Hi, Shunsweets. I take my supplements towards the end of a meal, or, at least with some hwc yoghurt. I can't take them on an empty stomach. I dissolve the multi-vit/min in water, and the magnesium tablets, too. Thanks for posting about the GAD. I looked up a few things and learned something.

I'm really glad Dr. B wrote enough about Small Numbers so that we can put it to use. I like it.

I wish you much success with protecting calmness. Reducing stress is key for me in being well. Hope you are having a really nice day.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:21 PM   #164
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Auntie Em, chocolate works for me.

At some point in my LC journey, I seemed to have become sensitive to most everything and my diet was very narrow. I made it a goal to expand and decided what items I really wanted to keep. Chocolate was one of those things...also wine and some peanut butter.

Getting too hung up on all the 'bad' foods (meaning bad lc foods) seemed to cause me more problems and I did not want to have disordered eating/fear of food for my entire life....really, I eat well.

So I had to make some changes. I did not want to be some old hermit who could only eat alone. I already live alone. I don't want to spend my old age this way because I can't eat w anyone because I might eat a PUFA!

Still, I eat small amts since my digestion sucks and sometimes I just need to eat mono meals....
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:31 AM   #165
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Hi, Jem. I'm glad you found some leeway in the plan. I still eat out sometimes. I don't let it ruin my day because the meat was cooked in PUFA. I always find some kind of meat and vegetable or eggs to eat. I don't find eating out a problem. At potlucks, I take what I can eat. I know what you mean about not making the aloneness more pronounced.

By mono meals, do you mean eating one thing for a meal? I've known some who really like eating that way. When I was a vegetarian I often ate a bowl of rice for meal, with various things added. I wasn't fond of plain rice.

Do you think poor digestion comes with age, or do some of us get an extra amount of it?

Hope you are having a lovely day.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:53 AM   #166
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I liked this little bit at the end of one of Peter Dobromylskyj's post on Adipocyte Insulin Resistance:

Adipocytes become fatter under the influence of insulin. Resistance to insulin by adipocytes limits fat storage and hence eventually limits weight gain. It also elevates FFA supply. Important.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:07 PM   #167
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I am starting to think poor digestion comes w age but, really, maybe it's because we are doing more damage w all the high grain eating previously.
It may be just more of the problems that were caused by the high carb/low fat craze.
Whatever it is, it is.
But those early bird senior menues have been around for a long time so maybe it is part of the aging process.

Yes, mono meals are exactly that. Or maybe not one particular food but the same food group.
A vegetable salad, even though all non starchy vegies, would be a mono meal.

I cannot eat a protein w anything else unless it is a soup or some dish w smaller serving of protein.
It is the protein for sure. I cannot comfortably digest the quantities that I could in the past. I'm not comfortable w that feeling of fullness that others seem to find satiating.

I seem to be finding my niche, though, so am happy for now.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:43 AM   #168
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Jem, thanks very much. I'm glad you are doing well.

Some years ago, I started paying attention to what elderly ladies ate, how much, when, how, etc. I appropriated much of that and started feeling better. Having scrambled eggs for dinner, for example.

Thanks for posting about the protein. I've known several women who have said the same thing. Dr. B's small numbers explained much of my own experience.

Hope your day is going nicely.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:14 AM   #169
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While looking at information on supplements, I ran across this chart listing the myo-inositol content of various foods:


http://www.ajcn.org/content/33/9/1954.full.pdf

ETA: I thought this entry on inositol at wikipedia was interesting, especially this bit:

Neither the inositol nor the phosphate in phytic acid in plants is available to humans, or to animals who are not ruminants, since it cannot be broken down, except by bacteria. Moreover, phytic acid also chelates important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc, making them unabsorbable, and contributing to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely highly on bran and seeds for their mineral intake....


Thought it might be useful to someone else, too.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 02-24-2012 at 08:01 AM.. Reason: added information
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:36 AM   #170
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Here is more from Dr. Bernstein on obeying the law of small numbers:


Part 3 Obeying the Laws of Small Numbers

Articles - Dr. Bernstein Shares His Insights

In the Part 1 and 2 we explained the importance of small numbers and how to begin to achieve predictability by using the Law of Carbohydrate Estimation, The Law of Insulin Dose Absorption and the Law of Insulin Timing. Today we will discuss the How To, in obeying the laws of small numbers.
Obeying the Laws of Small Numbers

Essential to "obeying" the laws of small numbers is to eat only small amounts of slow-acting carbohydrate when you eat carbohydrate, and no fast-acting carbohydrate. Even the slowest-acting carbohydrate can outpace injected or phase II insulin if consumed in greater amounts than recommended.

If you eat a small amount of slow-acting carbohydrate, you might get by with a very small postprandial blood sugar increase. If you double the amount of slow-acting carbohydrate, you'll double the potential increase in blood sugar (and remember that high blood sugar leads to even higher blood sugar). If you fill up on slow-acting carbohydrate, it will work as fast as a lesser amount of fast-acting carbohydrate, and if you feel stuffed, you'll compound it with the Chinese Restaurant Effect.

All of this not only points toward eating less carbohydrate, it also implies eating smaller meals 4 or 5 times a day rather than three large meals. If you're a Type II diabetic and require no medication, eating like this may work well for you. One difficulty with this sort of plan is its inconvenience, but some people don't mind and actually prefer to eat this way. I have one patient, a Type I diabetic who still makes some insulin. She eats a couple of bites of protein every 15 minutes and takes long-acting insulin. In a 16-hour day, that adds up to a lot of meals and a lot of clock-watching. This routine would drive a lot of people nuts, but it works for her. As long as she keeps up with her frequent little meals and covers the insulin, she's fine. If she misses a few "meals," there could be trouble.

The major problem with multiple small meals for Type 1 diabetics lies in the importance of correcting high or low blood sugars with insulin or glucose respectively, throughout the day. Since pre-meal regular or lispro insulins, even in small doses, continue to affect blood sugar for at least 5 hours, it is potentially dangerous to correct an elevated blood sugar with “fast acting” insulin before the prior dose has finished working. Thus meals should be spaced at least 5 hours apart if such corrections are to be made without risk. Such timing is impossible with multiple small meals.

For the Type II diabetic who doesn't need insulin injections, smaller meals throughout the day can be a very effective way of maintaining a constant level of blood sugar. Since this kind of diet would be tailored to work with a phase II insulin response, blood sugars should never go too high. It would, however, involve a certain amount of daily preparation and routinization that could be thrown off by changes in schedule—illness, travel, houseguests, and so forth. (People with gastroparesis, or delayed stomach-emptying, may have to eat this way. We will discuss this phenomenon in a future article.

This is from the articles section at diabetes-book.com.

Dr. B is giving one of his internet talks on Feb. 29th, at 7 PM CST. Here is the link to ask him a question. There is a link there to hear last month's talk, too.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 02-24-2012 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: added italics
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:07 AM   #171
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Lucas Tafur has another post up about adipose tissue and immunity. He writes that his next post will be his nutrition recommendations for this. I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:24 AM   #172
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Hey Auntie Em

Newbie here

Just wondering how much protein you would have on average daily?

I read a few articles and most are saying to have around 1.2g to 1.5g per kg of body weight so someone weighing 80kg should be having no more then 120g, just wondering what your thought are with this?

Thanks

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #173
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Hi, Zed. I follow Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's formula for PRO, CHO, and FAT. We all have different needs. Dr. Kwasniewski's amounts work well for me. I don't like saying that someone else ought to follow this or that plan. How could someone on the internet know what anyone else ought to do?

Here is the post which gives how to calculate the macronutrients per Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet.

I wish you all the best in your reading and LC success.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 02-24-2012 at 11:43 AM.. Reason: added link
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:45 PM   #174
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It says

Quote:
Having worked out the amount of protein, one can then calculate the amount of other components in a daily menu. Thus, for our typical 60 kg person, the consumption of 60 g of protein has to be accompanied by between 150 to 210 g of fat, and 30 to 50 g of carbohydrate in order to follow the principles of the Optimal Diet.

Auntie Em so a 60kg body only eats 60g of protein a day so only about 200g of beef say? confused a bit as i understood this diet to be mainly of meats? and 200g seems not much food for the whole day?
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:26 AM   #175
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Zed, there are explanations of Dr. Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet (aka Optimal Nutrition) at the homodiet site. An easy, quick way to figure protein grams in grams of meat is to use one ounce of cooked meat = 6 - 7 grams of protein.

This thread is a support thread for those who, after much trial and error, have found that eating a mostly carnivorous food plan is a lifetime choice. Those of us who post here are middle-aged or older and have been eating LC for a very long time.

You can ask questions about Dr. Kwasniewski's diet in the support thread for that diet, and questions about eating low carb or very low carb, or anything else ought to be asked in the Main Lobby. The Main Lobby of LCF is for asking the general types of questions you have asked here.

I wish you all the best.

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Old 02-26-2012, 06:23 AM   #176
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I'm reading old posts and comments at Hyperlipid.

I smiled at this one today. One of Peter's gems, in the comments after this post:

Insulin resistance is utterly essential for survival during either fasting o[r] VLC eating. If you ran your muscles on glucose when you were only eating 20g/d of carbohydrate your brain would be non functional.

The world of nutrition perennially confuses this with pathological insulin resistance in the presence of carbohydrate intake, a problem condition with a number of causes.

If you are pathologically insulin resistant you can side step the problem by carbohydrate restriction, or fasting, and the normal physiological insulin resistance kicks in and makes your pathological problem irrelevant. Reversing pathological IR would mean making a type 2 diabetic able to go out and eat a giant pizza with double fries and a litre of soda on the side with normoglycaemia. I don't see that happening.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:18 AM   #177
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Have been reading Dr. Michael Eades' blog about ketosis and metabolism, and ketosis and autophagy. Here is a comment of his, after the post on Metabolism and Ketosis:

Actually, the protein that can be used to fuel gluconeogenesis can come from sources other than the diet or the muscle. Ketosis actually helps cleanse the cells of junk protein, which can then be used for making sugar. It’s good for the cells to get rid of junk protein because junk protein prevents the cells from functioning properly. In fact, one of the hallmarks of aging is the accumulation of junk protein in the cells. So ketones are anti-aging substances. (June 1, 2011.)

And from Dr. Bernstein, from his book, The Diabetes Solution, chapter 12. :

Let’s say that your goal is to lose 1 pound every week. Weigh yourself after one week. If you’ve lost the weight, don’t change anything. If you haven’t lost the pound, reduce the protein at any one meal by one-third. For example, if you’ve been eating 6 ounces of fish or meat at dinner, cut it to 4 ounces. You can pick which meal to cut. Check your weight one week later. If you have lost a pound, don’t change anything. If you haven’t, cut the protein at another meal by one-third. If you haven’t lost the pound in the subsequent week, cut the protein by one-third in the one remaining meal. Keep doing this, week by week, until you are losing at the target rate. Never add back any protein that you have cut out, even if you subsequently lose 2 or 3 pounds in a week.*

*This may not work for girls or women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS). They may fail to lose weight even on a near-starvation diet (see Appendix E).

If you’ve managed to lose at least 1 pound weekly for many weeks but then your weight levels off, this is a good time for your physician to prescribe the special insulin resistance lowering agents described in Chapter 15. Alternatively you can just start cutting protein again. Continue this until you reach your initial target or until your visual evaluation of excess body fat tells you that further weight loss isn’t necessary. The average non-pregnant, sedentary adult with an ideal body weight of 150 pounds requires about 9 ounces of high-quality protein food (i.e., 54 grams of pure protein) daily to prevent protein malnutrition. It is therefore unwise to cut your protein intake much below this level (adjusted for your own ideal body weight). If you exercise strenuously and regularly, you may need much more than this. Once you’ve reached your target weight, do not add back any food.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:37 AM   #178
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More from Dr. B, all from the Appendix:

Dr. B, on salt:

*A study of older individuals who were rotated between low-, moderate-, and high-salt diets demonstrated that those on low-salt diets experienced significantly more sleep disturbances, and had more rapid heart rates and higher serum norepinephrine (adrenaline) levels. An international study called Intersalt, covering 10,079 people in 32 countries, reported in 1988 that “salt has only small importance in hypertension. ”More recently, another study showed that salt restriction increases insulin resistance and thus can indirectly increase blood pressure. Large amounts of dietary salt can facilitate loss of calcium from bones of post-menopausal women, who are already at high risk for osteoporosis (bone weakening).

...

Dr. B, on fiber:
Fiber, like carbohydrate, is not essential for a healthy life. Just look at the Eskimos and other hunting populations that survive almost exclusively on protein and fat, and don’t develop cardiac or circulatory diseases.*

...

and what Dr. B thinks about the glycemix index:

As attractive as it may seem, the concept is clearly flawed in three respects: First, diabetics show much higher blood sugar increases than nondiabetics. Second, digestion of the carbohydrate portion of a meal typically takes at least 5 hours (in the absence of gastroparesis), and the index ignores effects upon blood sugar that last longer than 3 hours. Finally, the index is an average, and true numbers have been found to vary considerably from one person to another, from one time to another, and from one study to another. As I’ve pointed out, a food that makes my blood sugar rise dramatically may have little or no effect on that of one of my patients who still makes some insulin.

Unfortunately, many dieticians and diabetes educators still recommend foods that have been “shown” to have a “low” glycemic index in some study, and assume that an index of 40 or 50 percent is low. They may thus select apples, lima beans, and the like as appropriate for diabetics, even though consumption of typical portions of these foods will cause considerable blood sugar elevations in diabetics.

A “medium-sized” apple, according to one table of food values, contains 21 grams of carbohydrate. It will raise my own blood sugar by 105 mg/dl, and much more rapidly than I can prevent with an injection of rapid-acting insulin. Peanuts usually have the lowest glycemic index in many studies (about 15 percent), yet 1 ounce contains 6 grams of carbohydrate and close to 1 ounce of protein. I’ve found this portion to raise my blood sugar by 80 mg/dl, albeit much more slowly than the apple. Since peanuts work so slowly (more slowly than 3 hours), I can substitute 1 ounce for 6 grams carbohydrate and 1 ounce protein in a meal—but who can eat only one handful of peanuts?* The carbohydrate foods that we recommend, salads and selected vegetables (Chapter 9), have glycemic indices lower than peanuts and work more slowly. Furthermore, they are more filling. The issue here, though, is to understand that such indices are unreliable and won’t help you keep your blood sugars normalized.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 03-04-2012 at 10:38 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:02 AM   #179
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Dr. Bernstein's last talk, from February 29 can still be heard. His next talk is scheduled for March 28th.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:26 AM   #180
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A cheery post at Hyperlipid today, "Fruits and Vegetables". I'm still smiling.
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