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Old 02-13-2012, 08:51 AM   #121
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An excerpt from old post of Peter Dobromylskyj's, on losing weight when it is hard to....:

...Excess weight is the result of a failure of adipocytes to release energy, hunger is needed to supply any shortfall needed for metabolism.

Working on this basis, the requirement for weight loss must be to minimise insulin. This allows metabolism to run on the surplus of adipose tissue energy released over dietary energy consumed. On a high fat diet with low insulin levels ASP will still rapidly store most meal derived fat, HSL will subsequently release it as needed.

Ultimately weight loss boils down to lowering insulin levels. So we end up with a need for minimal carbohydrate. On the Optimal Diet basis that would be the lowest amount for a sedentary person to avoid ketosis, say 0.5g/kg of "ideal" weight. If a person is well adapted to a LC/high fat diet then protein requirements can be as low as 0.8g/kg ideal weight. Protein metabolism requires some insulin response and any excess protein will be mostly converted to glucose, which requires a considerable amount of insulin to be used. Fat intake should be relatively low (by Kwasniewski standards only!) to keep total calories below those needed by our metabolism, otherwise ASP will store more fat than HSL will release. HSL will only ever release enough FFA for the metabolic needs in a healthy person.

On top of that basic plan, the basal metabolic rate must be normal. If a person is hypothyroid they will require far less FFAs for their metabolism and so HSL will adjust to this and minimise fat break down. ASP won't, so a high fat diet will produce weight gain if calories are in excess of metabolic needs. Correct and well monitored thyroid medication is needed for this. As most common thyroid problems seem to be auto immune in origin, avoiding gluten seems like a good idea, if it isn't always a good idea. Which it is. BTW both hypo and hyper thyroidism appear to cause insulin resistance. That seems a bit bizarre to me, but there you go.

There seem to be a few tweaks available. Tinkering with insulin sensitivity may be worthwhile. If your muscles need a certain amount of insulin to dispose of a given amount of glucose, then the pancreas will produce that insulin. In addition to helping the muscles take up glucose that insulin will inhibit FFA release from adipocytes. Resistance exercise seems to be the best way to increase insulin sensitivity. Doing this shifts that same given amount of glucose on less insulin. Less insulin means less inhibition of HSL, so easier fat loss.

Improving insulin sensitivity can also be achieved by avoiding medication which interferes with the action of insulin. There has to be a balance here. If dumping your antidepressant makes you suicidal, don't do it! Most blood pressure medications can be gradually reduced as blood pressure tends to normalise on LC eating. Corticosteroids are a real bugbear. Again, if they are life saving you have no choice, keep taking them and accept the weight they make you carry. If you are corticosteroid dependent, never forget that acute withdrawl can be fatal.

If you live as far north as Finland then checking and correcting your vitamin D status would be well worth while.

Anyone reading Chris or Emma's blogs will realise that aspirin, and possibly other related salycilates from plants, cause the pancreas the secrete extra insulin. Avoid. Gluten and wheat germ agglutinin (both from wheat, barley and rye) are (or contain) insulin mimetics, avoid. Casein stimulates insulin secretion, avoid. Pharmaceutical NSAID probably do the same as salycilates, avoid if possible.

...

That's quite a list. There are probably loads of other tweaks that I've not thought of....

If you are in the same position as Windmill, that must all be pretty depressing to read. If you want to adjust your weight downwards to where you would like it to be, you are stuck with a pretty extreme version of the Optimal Diet, low but adequate in protein, low in carbs, probably eaten as starches as part of the evening meal, fine tuning your thyroid meds and replacing coconut oil with lard. Lard at a moderate level that is. Do everything practical to maintain your insulin sensitivity.

This seems to work (from an off blog comment from Windmill).

The trouble is that it is HARD. This is not OD as myself or Stan eat it. This is kitchen scales, bathroom scales, portions, calculations, limitations, problems eating out, vegetable avoidance, cheese avoidance, gluten avoidance....... Arghhhhhhh

So there is a trade off. It's one hell of a big trade off. Some of us (most of us probably) have it easy, certainly easier than Windmill. But ultimately there is that balance between fats in to adipocytes and fats out of adipocytes. ASP and HSL. Even worse, there is a trade off between what you know you can do, that you have already done successfully in the past, and the real bind of allowing your diet to rule your life and putting some pretty draconian limits on your eating. Does anybody want to do this? Long term, for ever? That's a very personal decision.

Also the final thought must be: What is the healthiest weight, personal preferences aside?

I don't think we know.


There is much good information in the comments following the post.

One of Peter's comments. (I've put the Kwasniewski ratios for losing weight in bold type.):

I think Kwasniewski says about 0.8g/kg ideal weight protein, 0.3g/kg carbohydrate and fat less than 2g/kg. So he sets a maximum fat intake, but no minimum.

I have to always keep coming back to health. There is nothing about a BMI of 21 that is any healthier than a BMI of 27, given normal levels of insulin and glucose in both situations (as should occur on the OD).

So health comes first, wellbeing should come from that, and calorie restriction to a preferred weight comes last... Both JK and Lutz do comment that there are a subset of people, mostly female and past reproductive age, for whom weight loss is extremely difficult. The question is what do you need to do to achieve weight loss and why? I would suspect 1.5g/d of fat is likely to be fine but I don't think anyone really knows what effect long term low calorie diets have when they are still low in carbs and high in healthy fats like butter.

Simple CRON diets might well damage you (eg Roy Walford), but CRON based on fat, there's an unknown....
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:00 AM   #122
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Hooray! Someone put Dr. Blake Donaldson's book, Strong Medicine, online. This is a dream come true!

HathiTrust Digital Library - Strong medicine.

I hope you all enjoy it. It is one of my most favorite books.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:45 AM   #123
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A lovely, all-too-short interview with Dr. Richard MacKarness at the beginning of this newsreel:

WANT TO SLIM? THEN EAT FAT! - British Pathé
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #124
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Woo-hoo! Just downloaded Strong Medicine. Thanks AuntieEm.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:07 AM   #125
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Shunsweets, it is a great find, isn't it? I hope you really like it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:49 AM   #126
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Back to Petro's blurb; Problem w peop following Stan's version of OD is it really dilutes Dr K's program quite a bit. It really becomes just LC w all the vegies, etc.
The good part of his site is that it does give Dr K's plan as written if you look at the diet pages and menu.

So it sounds like CO is not a good replacement for lard. We tend to deviate so much due to the huge amt of info on the web.
It's a wonder anyone can figure out any way at all to achieve/maintain health!!
However, I do believe there are foods that one should be cautious of like chemically processed meats....

The items that stimulate the pancreas are an eye opener. We may already have information re risks for these items but the idea that they stimulate insulin secretion....
I will need to delve further into that research.

Thanks for the link to the book.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:57 AM   #127
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Hi, Jem. Peter's comments about Dr. K's work and the diet after various posts helped me very much.

I agree about avoiding the chemically processed meats.

Here is the link to information about Dr. K's Optimal Diet at NationMaster encyclopedia.

Hope you are doing well.

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Old 02-17-2012, 03:24 PM   #128
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I like reading Dr. Michael Eades' comments to those who post after his blog articles.

Here is a nice one, after a comment on Metabolic Efficiency:

If you eat enough of anything you will use some of the calories for the body’s energy needs, you will store some as fat, and you will burn some off. That which you burn off is the metabolic advantage. People who have insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia will store more and burn off less since they have a lot of insulin and insulin is the fat storage hormone. Thin, young, insulin-sensitive people will store less and burn off more. Decreasing carbs and increasing fat will reduce insulin, increase insulin sensitivity and make people store less and burn more.
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:07 AM   #129
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In case you've been wondering what your ancestors ate:

Diets of modern hunter-gatherers vary substantially in their carbohydrate content depending on ecoenvironments: results from an ethnographic analysis

Abstract link.

In the past, attempts have been made to estimate the carbohydrate contents of preagricultural human diets. Those estimations have primarily been based on interpretations of ethnographic data of modern hunter-gatherers. In this study, it was hypothesized that diets of modern hunter-gatherers vary in their carbohydrate content depending on ecoenvironments. Thus, using data of plant-to-animal subsistence ratios, we calculated the carbohydrate intake (percentage of the total energy) in 229 hunter-gatherer diets throughout the world and determined how differences in ecological environments altered carbohydrate intake.

We found a wide range of carbohydrate intake (≈3%-50% of the total energy intake; median and mode, 16%-22% of the total energy). Hunter-gatherer diets were characterized by an identical carbohydrate intake (30%-35% of the total energy) over a wide range of latitude intervals (11°-40° north or south of the equator).

However, with increasing latitude intervals from 41° to greater than 60°, carbohydrate intake decreased markedly from approximately equal to 20% to 9% or less of the total energy. Hunter-gatherers living in desert and tropical grasslands consumed the most carbohydrates (≈29%-34% of the total energy).

Diets of hunter-gatherers living in northern areas (tundra and northern coniferous forest) contained a very low carbohydrate content (≤15% of the total energy).

In conclusion, diets of hunter-gatherers showed substantial variation in their carbohydrate content. Independent of the local environment, however, the range of energy intake from carbohydrates in the diets of most hunter-gatherer societies was markedly different (lower) from the amounts currently recommended for healthy humans.


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Old 02-18-2012, 03:23 PM   #130
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Thank you Auntie Em for posting the book "Strong Medicine"
It is a fascinating read and I am enjoying it very much.


I have not figured out how to d/l the pdf. It says you have to join, but that is OK. I'll read it online. I would love to keep a digital copy though and read it on my kindle.

Thank you again!
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:30 AM   #131
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Hi, NoSugar, thanks for your kind thoughts. What popped up when I looked, was that one page at a time could be downloaded, unless one has access to sign in from a university. I don't have that access. I, too, would like to have a pdf of the whole book. It would be tedious to download one page at a time.

If you'd like a real book, once in a while one shows up at abebooks for a regular price, instead of a rare book price.

Dr. Donaldson's work with allergies, and his emphasis on meaningful work, outdoor exercise, and regular habits is fascinating, I think, as part of his work to get people well.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:23 AM   #132
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Thank you Auntie Em, my thoughts exactly on the one page d/l.
I will keep a look out for a 'real' copy. But it's all good. I hope they don't take it offline before I finish it.

I am still at the beginning, but like the history of his service years and such.
I know already I am going to like the rest of it.

Thank you again for the post and your insights.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:35 AM   #133
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NoSugar, I am glad to have the book. I refer to it again and again. As I learn more about ancestral eating, I understand his book in new ways each time I read in it.

I hope to see Dr. Alfred Pennington's papers posted someday. There are only a few of his things on the internet. I am grateful for the few things there are though.

Have you read Dr. Benjamin Sandler's things, too?
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:06 AM   #134
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Hi, NoSugar.

Here is a study about ketosis decreasing glutamate and increasing GABA.

Here is an excerpt. I put the some bits I found noteworthy in bold type.

We hypothesized that an alteration in the dynamics of the Glutamate-Glutamine Cycle could constitute an important component of the anti-epileptic effect of the ketogenic diet (KD) (Fig. 1, right side). Our data suggests that ketosis induced the following metabolic changes: (a) Flux through the astrocytic glutamine synthetase pathway is intensified, thereby favoring the “buffering” of synaptic glutamate that is taken up by the glia; (b) More glutamine becomes accessible to GABA-ergic neurons, which then have at their disposal a larger precursor pool for the purpose of the synthesis of GABA, the major inhibitory neurotransmitter of the CNS. Indeed, we showed that GABA synthesis is greater in synaptosomes in the presence of acetoacetate (Erecinska et al, 1996); (c) A major metabolic fate of glutamate derived from glutamine by the action of phosphate-dependent glutaminase is transamination to aspartate via aspartate aminotransferase (Figure 1).

In ketosis, less glutamate is metabolized and more becomes available to the glutamate decarboxylase reaction for the purpose of GABA synthesis.
How might ketosis cause these changes? We and others found that ketosis activates mitochondrial metabolism and flux through the tricarboxylic acid cycle (Melo et al, 2006; Yudkoff et al, 2005; 2006). This occurs because in the non-ketotic state the brain uses only glucose as a metabolic substrate. In contrast, ketotic brain avidly consumes ketone bodies (3-OH-butyrate and acetoacetate) as well as acetate itself. These compounds, particularly acetate, are oxidized primarily in glia, not neurons (Waniewski and Martin, 1998). The metabolism of ketone bodies and acetate must engage the tricarboxylic acid cycle of the mitochondria. In contrast, the consumption of glucose is partially an anaerobic process that starts in the cytosol and results in the formation of pyruvate and lactate. Indeed, to a variable degree astrocytes even may release lactate to neurons.

Thus, the ketotic state intensifies mitochondrial metabolism and flux through the tricarboxylic acid cycle (Melo et al, 2006; Yudkoff et al, 2005; 2006). A consequence of this phenomenon in astrocytes is enhanced formation of glutamine, thereby allowing increased “buffering” of glutamate and increased synthesis of an important GABA precursor (Sonnewald et al, 1993).


Ketosis also may alter neuronal handling of glutamate, at least in nerve endings. We found, using stable isotope probes such as [15N]glutamate and [2-15N]glutamine, that a major metabolic fate of glutamate in synaptosomes is conversion to aspartate via transamination with oxaloacetate (glutamate + oxaloacetate ↔ α-ketoglutarate + aspartate) (Yudkoff et al, 1994). The oxidation of ketone bodies necessarily produces acetyl-CoA (3-OH-butyrate → → acetoacetyl-CoA → acetyl-CoA), which is a substrate for the citrate synthetase reaction (oxaloacetate + acetyl-CoA → citrate), a very active pathway in brain. Our data suggest that augmented flux through citrate synthetase could limit the rate of transamination of glutamate to aspartate.

As a result, more glutamate could become available to the glutamate decarboxylase reaction in nerve endings and more glutamate could be available to the glutamine synthetase reaction in astrocytes.

The changes described above undoubtedly comprise only a portion of the adaptations that ketosis evokes in order to assert an anti-epileptic effect.

What matters most is the positive use we can make of such information in order to control epilepsy in affected patients. In this regard, some evidence suggests that even modest caloric restriction or a low-carbohydrate regimen could improve seizure control. If, as we hypothesize, an important component of the therapeutic effect of the KD is a shift toward ketone bodies and acetate as cerebral metabolic substrates, it seems plausible to consider whether supplementation with ostensibly innocuous nutritionals such as acetylcarnitine might prove beneficial.


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Old 02-19-2012, 05:38 AM   #135
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Thank you so much for creating this quiet little corner of LCF, Antie Em. I lurk here but rarely post. Your information and links have been of HUGE value to me.

Loved Strong Medicine. Thanks for posting the link.

Antie Em- I always enjoy your posts and get alot of food for thought from them. I have been on a year long search to heal my poor gut and eating only meat, eggs and broth seems to be helping the most.

I just finished reading a copy of Deep Nutrition. I hope that my son and DIL will have a few light bulb moments when they read it. I think it should be required reading for anyone even thinking of becoming pregnant.

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Old 02-19-2012, 07:45 AM   #136
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Erin, how nice to have you post here. Thank you very much for your thoughtful and kind words.

I agree, Strong Medicine is a gem.

Meat, eggs, and broth sounds grand. Do you make bone broth or just meat broth? Cutting out the nightshades, fiber, and FODMAPs was as healing for me as leaving out grains, legumes, sugars/starches, etc.

I wish you perfect healing and much joy with your food plan.

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Old 02-19-2012, 08:16 AM   #137
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I posted this in a different thread but will post it here, as Dr. B's plan is brilliant, IMO.


This is from Dr. Richard Bernstein's book, The Diabetes Solution. This excerpt is taken from his site, diabetes-book. I can't post a link due to the advertising at that site, and I've taken the links out of this excerpt.

THE LAW OF SMALL NUMBERS

Many years ago, John Galloway, then medical director of Eli Lilly and Company, performed an eye-opening experiment. He gave one injection of 70 units of regular insulin (a very large dose) to a nondiabetic volunteer who was connected to an intravenous glucose infusion.

Dr. Galloway then measured blood sugars every few minutes and adjusted the glucose drip to keep the patient’s blood sugars clamped at 90 mg/dl. How long would you guess the glucose infusion had to be continued to prevent dangerously low blood sugars, or hypoglycemia?

It took a week, even though the package insert says that regular insulin lasts only 4–12 hours. So the conclusion is that even the timing of injected insulin is very much dependent upon how much was injected. In practice, larger insulin injections start working sooner, last longer, and have less predictable timing.

If you eat a meal not specifically tailored to our restricted-carbohydrate diet and try to cover it with insulin, you’ll get a postprandial (after-eating) increase in blood sugar, eventually followed by a decrease as the fast-acting insulin catches up. This means that you’ll have high blood sugars after every meal, and you could still fall prey to the long-term complications of diabetes. If you try to prevent the inevitable postprandial blood sugar spike by waiting to eat until after the start time of your insulin, you may easily make yourself hypoglycemic, which could in turn cause you to overcompensate by overeating— that is, presuming you don’t lose consciousness first.

Type 2 diabetics have a diminished or absent phase I insulin response, and so they face a problem similar to that of type 1s. They have to wait hours for the phase II insulin to catch up if they eat fast-acting carbohydrate or large amounts of slow-acting carbohydrate.
The key to timing insulin injections is to know how carbohydrates and insulin affect your blood sugar and to use that knowledge to minimize the swings. Since you can’t approximate phase I insulin response, you have to eat foods that allow you to work within the limits of the insulin you make or inject. If you think you’ll miss out on the great high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet recommended by the ADA— which, if you look at the statistics, has only succeeded in raising levels of obesity, elevating triglycerides and LDL, and causing an epidemic of diabetes—there is considerable evidence that restricting carbohydrate is healthier not only for diabetics but for everyone. (For more details on this point, see Protein Power, by Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades, Bantam Books, 1996; or see Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. A Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars... and, under “Articles,” read “What If It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie?” by Gary Taubes.)

If you consume only small amounts of slow-acting carbohydrate, you can actually prevent postprandial blood sugar elevation with injected preprandial rapid-acting insulin. In fact, by restricting carbohydrate intake, many type 2 diabetics will be able to prevent this rise with their phase II insulin response and will not need injected insulin before meals.

OBEYING THE LAWS OF SMALL NUMBERS

Essential to obeying the Laws of Small Numbers is to eat only small amounts of slow-acting carbohydrate when you eat carbohydrate, and no fast-acting carbohydrate. Even the slowest-acting carbohydrate can outpace injected or phase II insulin if consumed in greater amounts than recommended later in this book (Chapters 9–11).

If you eat a small amount of slow-acting carbohydrate, you might get by with a very small or no postprandial blood sugar increase. If you double the amount of slow-acting carbohydrate, you’ll more than double the potential increase in blood sugar (and remember that high blood sugar leads to even higher blood sugar). If you fill up on slowacting carbohydrate, it will work as fast as a lesser amount of fast-acting carbohydrate, and if you feel stuffed, you’ll compound it with the Chinese restaurant effect.

All of this not only points toward eating less carbohydrate, it also implies eating smaller meals 4 or 5 times a day rather than three large meals. If you’re a type 2 diabetic and require no medication, eating like this may work well for you. The difficulty with this sort of plan is its inconvenience, but some people don’t mind and actually prefer to eat this way. One of my patients, a type 1 diabetic who still makes some insulin, eats a couple of bites of protein every 20 minutes and takes long-acting insulin. In a 16-hour day, that adds up to a lot of minimeals and a lot of clock-watching. This routine would drive many people nuts, but it almost works for her. As long as she keeps up with her frequent little meals and covers the insulin, she’s fine. When she misses a few “meals,” there inevitably is trouble.

For the type 2 diabetic who doesn’t need insulin injections, smaller meals throughout the day can be a very effective way of maintaining a constant level of blood sugar. Since this kind of diet would be tailored to work with a phase II insulin response, blood sugars should never go too high. It would, however, involve a certain amount of daily preparation and routinization that could be thrown off by changes in schedule— illness, travel, houseguests, and so forth. People who cover their meals with injected insulin and also correct small blood sugar elevations with very rapid acting insulin, however, cannot get away with more than three daily meals (Chapter 19).

Smaller increases in blood sugar mean less insulin response, which means less storage of fat. The law of small numbers is part of LCing.

Dr. Bernstein also recommends eating constant amount of CHO and PRO from breakfast to breakfast, lunch to lunch, and supper to supper, from day to day. His plan, IMO, is brilliant. He recommends the following CHO: 6 grams for breakfast, 12 for lunch, and 12 for supper.

Dr. Bernstein explains a great deal more in his book and in his talks.
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:49 AM   #138
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I have such respect for Dr B. What a brilliant, pioneering, and self directed doctor. He really has fought the mainstream of diabetic care singlehandedly for years and is only now starting to get a little respect from his peers.
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:56 AM   #139
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Hi, Shunsweets. Yes, I think Dr. B should receive an award at the level of the Nobel Peace prize! You've inspired me to post some Dr. B videos:

Here is the :

Here are the rest of the Dr. Bernstein videos which that user has posted.

Just watching and listening to Dr. B always inspires me to eat more cleanly, exercise more, and think more about how I live.
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:03 PM   #140
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I have Dr. Bernstein's book and his Diabetes Diet book also. I bought my sister one, who is diabetic, but sadly she does not heed his advice. My other sister won't read it either.
Two family members with diabetes. I hope I am not next.

That is why I read, read and read some more. I also lurk on this thread and find it fascinating that you can find so many things. My searching skills are nill.

I have not read any of Dr. Sandler's work. I just got to the part in 'Strong Medicine where Dr. Donaldson mentions him. I don't really understand all the science 'talk', in papers online and such, but glean what I can.

So far, Strong Medicine is an easy read.

Have a nice evening.
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Old 02-19-2012, 01:40 PM   #141
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts on vegies, Auntie Em, and for sharing Eades post. That was fascinating.

Still catching up with all your other links and the posts, but I wanted to share this find. The gov's nutritional data base has added a feature that gives some additional nutritional info, including on fats: Foods List

If you go in and search for the food item, get the basic report up on the screen, there is then a button for "Full Report" and it displays much more detailed info about fats and other nutrients. There is nothing so handy as an omega-3 vs. omega-6 ratio but if you tunnel through all the fat entries, you can get better information as to how much of which it contains. Not user friendly, but if you are determined to get the numbers on your favorite foods, this now provides some help.

Back to my reading...
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:43 AM   #142
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LCShadows, it's nice to have you post here. Yes, that Food List is super. I have it in my bookmarks bar. I don't look up things very often as I eat the same things most of the time.

RE: Plant matter.
After a time of almost no plant matter, I am experimenting with eating a few of the vegs I know I can handle. I have found the FailSafe diet information of tremendous help. Plants have their defenses, and many of those phytotoxins don't agree with me.

Hope you are doing really well.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:57 AM   #143
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Have been re-reading the posts and comments on Dr. Kwasniewski's diet at Hyperlipid. A woman, posting as Flo, put this in the comments, after this post. (She is Polish, I guess, and translating something from Dr. K's Polish website, and posting her own observations.)

Fats recommended by JK, in order of biological value: egg yolk, bone marrow, cream, butter, beef and lamb suet, goose fat, lard (pork fat). He allows coconut oil, olive oil, walnuts oil... - it's just that these shouldn't be the base....

My point is, I don't believe there are good and bad foods, I think there are only better and worse choices. You can't live on egg yolks, bone broth and offal 100% a time. For instance, JK understands that the WOE to be sustainable, must be liberal to some extend and that's why, I guess, allows refined flower (which I myself do not eat).


I'm not sure JK meant the lipid profile only when putting those fats in this particular order.
I'm clueless when it comes to biochemistry but found something that might give you a hint:



"Animal fats contain almost all needed for their burning enzymes, minerals and vitamins, exactly in the amounts and proportions human organism needs.
Vegetable oils don't contain these molecules what significantly decreases their 'biological value' comparing to animal fats. Fats from egg yolk and bone marrow, biologically active fats, especially those surrounding kidneys are characterised by very high biological value associated with the contents of many common for animals and human biomolecules which when consumed don't have to be produced, saving this way protein, energy, vitamins and minerals."



The truth to be told, his writings happen sometimes to cause some confusion. He is a very lovely easy-going person and so is his writing style, he allows lots of things, DO is fairly liberal. I found JK's one day menu somewhere, it had some 'fancy' stuff in it, rather than just meat'n'egg... On the other hand, most of the time, people want and need clear instructions, black & white approach. His son is more 'strict'.


Peter's comment to s/o regarding Flo's quotes:

I get the impression flo is correct in her ideas about JK's approach. The inclusion of sucrose in Optimal ice cream is a clear example, as well as the use of flour. He even seems to accept green leaf vegetables if people as so inclined to spend their carbs there...

But yes, offal, eggs, bone broth, marrow and some added fat is probably pretty complete.


As the price of beef continues to rise, I find it comforting to know that offal and eggs, bone broth and marrow, with added fat are giving me optimal nutrition. I have noticed that I now tend to think of the muscle meat as a treat, and the aforementioned foods as my "dinner". I like having a "treat" for breakfast. Steak, and a bit of lettuce with a few drops of malt vinegar yesterday. I really like my WOE.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:59 AM   #144
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And a nice bit from Dr. Bernstein's book, chapter 12, page 3, online, on losing weight. The site is called diabetes-book. I added the bold type and underlining.

Let’s say that your goal is to lose 1 pound every week. Weigh yourself after one week. If you’ve lost the weight, don’t change anything. If you haven’t lost the pound, reduce the protein at any one meal by one third. For example, if you’ve been eating 6 ounces of fish or meat at dinner, cut it to 4 ounces. You can pick which meal to cut. Check your weight one week later. If you have lost a pound, don’t change anything. If you haven’t, cut the protein at another meal by one-third.

If you haven’t lost the pound in the subsequent week, cut the protein by one third in the one remaining meal. Keep doing this, week by week, until you are losing at the target rate. Never add back any protein that you have cut out,
even if you subsequently lose 2 or 3 pounds in a week...

If you’ve managed to lose at least 1 pound weekly for many weeks but then your weight levels off, this is a good time for your physician to prescribe the special insulin resistance–lowering agents described in Chapter 15. Alternatively you can just start cutting protein again. Continue this until you reach your initial target or until your visual evaluation of excess body fat tells you that further weight loss isn’t necessary. The average non pregnant, sedentary adult with an ideal body weight of 150 pounds requires about 9 ounces of high-quality protein food (i.e., 54 grams of pure protein) daily to prevent protein malnutrition. It is therefore unwise to cut your protein intake much below this level (adjusted for your own ideal body weight). If you exercise strenuously and regularly, you may need much more than this.

Once you’ve reached your target weight, do not add back any food. You will probably have to stay on approximately this diet for many years, but you’ll easily become accustomed to it. If you required one of the appetite-reducing approaches described in the next chapter, do not discontinue it.
...


Dr. K starts folks at 1gPRO (plus or minus ten percent) per kg of what he calls due body weight. A person who is 180cm tall has a due body weight of 80kg. After becoming accustomed to the Optimal Diet, that protein can be reduced to .8gPRO per kg of due body weight.


I find it nice that Dr. B and Dr. K have views that look to me to be harmonious, having folks slowly reduce the protein. Putting the pieces together fills in more of the puzzle.

I have yet to find information to understand the differences between calculating protein requirements by weight and by height.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 02-20-2012 at 06:08 AM.. Reason: added bold type, deleted duplicate paragraph
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:27 AM   #145
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Interesting - I am pretty sure I am not consuming 9 oz. of protein daily but I could be wrong. How would one translate this when counting in eggs?
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:31 AM   #146
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Cathy, the book I use for PFC amounts and calorie reference, Dr. MacKarness' Eat Fat and Grow Slim says that a whole egg is 6gm of PRO. Unfortunately, the online version of the book doesn't contain this section.

I started weighing my meat again. I wanted to know how much shrinkage there is, due to cooking, and realized that I had been guessing too high on the cooked weights. I thought I was eating 3 or 3.5 ounces at a time. My portions are 2.5 to 2.75 ounces usually. There is some PRO in hh, so I get 50 - 70gPRO/d easily. When I eat more at a meal, it triggers the "eat more" switch. I am working on really avoiding having that switch triggered. It's not only particular foods for me, but how many bites of something.

Here is a database of nutrient info in foods:

http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list

Here is the egg page at that site. It lists one large egg at 6.28gPRO.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 02-20-2012 at 06:36 AM.. Reason: added info
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:43 AM   #147
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Thanks Auntie Em for the info. I am now convinced I need to read Dr. Bernstein's book. I hope to get it at the library....

This idea of smaller portions is starting to make some sense to me. The concept of spreading the bodies responses to food over a longer period of time - something I have not been doing.....
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:55 AM   #148
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Cathy, much of Dr. B's book is online at diabetes-book. I borrowed it from the library numerous times.

Smaller portions works well for me. Various forms of IF are popular in LC and Paleo circles, but IF doesn't work for all of us.

Whenever I try something different, I always come back to small meals, not eating too late, and staying away from foods or amounts that cause me trouble. And, I've discovered that a few plants help me.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:58 AM   #149
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I am the same; smaller portions.

I tend to have a few snacks throughout the day. One of them is chocolate!! And no, not 85%...although, if I wanted to give up chocolate, I'd buy it.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:58 AM   #150
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Just read through the Failsafe site looking for the best choices for me to avoid breaking out in hives from foods (which I do a lot!). I've already been gluten and nightshade free. Basically the only veggie I have had the past few weeks is cabbage chopped into slaw and mixed with my meats and mayo as a sort of salad. I was relieved to see cabbage is a recommended veggie and suspect my recent hives have come from seeds and nuts so those are gone for now and I'll weigh how I do. I also have to use the refined coconut oil as the extra virgin gives me a severe allergic reaction - another reason to suspect the seeds and nuts.
Looking more and more like eggs and meat with a small touch of cheese(and maybe a sprinke of cabbage and spices) is going to be the way to go for me between my diabetes and my immune system my body tells me pretty clearly what it wants. I just have to listen and obey - not always easy.
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