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Old 04-16-2011, 04:40 AM   #211
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I think all of use that have been obese struggle daily with control issues, its like my smoking, I know its bad, but yet I cant give that up and not eat, I am so afraid of setting off binges. Or like drugs, I was always careful to not even try them because I have such an addictive personality, Jimmy does show that we all have our battles, and Ron it sounds like you made vast strides in the drinking that is super! I know for years I would tell my doctor I was trying, well I really wasnt trying that hard, or I would not have been 350 pounds LOL Now I know I am going to have moments of weakness, I am going to be ticked but somehow knowing it makes it easier to deal with. And now I know I have the strength to get right back on track, this is a lifelong battle, I think very few can eat perfectly every day all year, we all have hour own struggles
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:40 PM   #212
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Heh, yes, of course, I have my issues too. I have insulin resistance, yet I use sweeteners in my coffee and gelatin (I've given up the LC treats in food form is all). I do like my coffee!!!

CalRon, that is so great that you have found the diet helps you so much. The LC diet has done the same for me. I think I used to eat about 5,000 calories a day, seriously, back in the day. This means if I had not been diabetic, I would probably have reached @500 pounds. Diabetes is what happens when you can't gain anymore weight. The body can't put anymore sugar into the fat stores so there it is in the bloodstream, damaging organs and spilling over into the urine.

I see what you mean, Jimmy is not a guru, he is a salesman. I hadn't thought about it that way, he has ads for the products on his websites. I imagine more people are following his journey now that he has gained weight and fighting to get it back off because that is curious and interesting. He would be shooting himself in the foot to say not to eat the bars and sweeteners and such.

Ha! He made me talk about him, didn't he? Free advertisement! Ugh.

Amber/Bejewelme - you are such a sweetheart, I love reading your thread. Your jokes about your struggles are so honest and funny, I am so like you in many ways, it makes me feel better!!!
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:22 PM   #213
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Dr. Raymond Peats on Coconut Oil

I have been curious about the coconut oil rage. I know I have read that there is a version of the ketogenic diet for epileptic children that uses MCT oil (derived from coconut oil) because the children are able to get into ketosis while eating a little more carbohydrate. I have also read that farmers don't feed the cheap coconut oil to their animals because it makes them lose weight (Peats cites this as well, but he seems to say it is because is displaces the unhealthy polyunsaturated fats they were eating and FYI he also says the coconut oil made the animals hungrier, something I don't remember reading before).

OK, here is what he says on coconut oil. Again, I am looking into a few other sources of fat since too much dairy is problematic for me (too much cream = acne, too much cheese = hives), and I am also looking for sources of foods that do not slow the metabolism. I realize dairy is my issue, I am not saying anyone else needs to do this, and to be clear, Kwasniewski beleives animal fat is best.

I am paraphrasing.

Coconut oil supports the thyroid – it has pro-thyroid effects. It is warming (increasing body temperature), increases the amount of time you can go between meals (by supporting the liver in storing glycogen, although Peats is all for frequent feedings), and it doesn’t contain the anti-thyroid/anti-respiratory polyunsaturated fats. He states adding one ounce of coconut oil to his diet increased his energy and he lost 15 pounds but please note this is due to the effects of supporting thyroid and displacing the polyunsaturated fats, he does not actually say it is going to cause anyone to lose weight.

He does say that he believes the U.S. metabolism is low due to the high consumption of polyunsaturated fat. It is something to really think about if you are using the regular mayo/salad dressings/vegetable oils.

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Old 04-16-2011, 06:16 PM   #214
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KT- I was leery of coconut oil, now I have it everywhere!!! I love cooking with it, I never got to the point of eating it plain or in coffee, oh No!!!! I slather it all over my skin I have it in the kitchen, the shower, my bedroom, it has a variety of uses, I cant wait to put it on my scars! I love sauteing chicken and beef with it, OMg it gives a whole new flavor, and I hate coconut which is why I was so leery of it!

KT- it always helps to have kindred spirits with the same struggles! LOL
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:36 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Wowsa - I did not know this!! I had to look up goitroten - my 'something new' for the day!! Very interesting. Wikipedi's explaination....

Goitrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It seems plausible and actually makes a lot of sense to me. If you think of all the people who have turned to VLC (myself included) to achieve weight loss .... they would be limiting a lot of these foods that have goitrogen. I wonder too, if this causes hunger?

I love that avocados and saturated fat are known foods that stimulate the thyroid. Bring on the guacamole and pork rinds!!! Actually, I am going to have avocado soup and egg salad 'sandwich' for my meal today but I will be having it with further confidence that it is going to be helpful!

Jimmy Moore is a brave soul. I can hardly make it to 4 o'clock without any solids and I have hwc in my coffee until then!!!
Clackley,

I just looked at this article. I thought it would be long. It is concise. This is very interesting! Ugh, with this list, along with Peat's explanations, I see I tend to pick things to eat that are rather anti-thyroid. I will post more about this when I find his references on protein and gelatin (but will point out here that recommends cheese and milk rather than whey for dairy protein (the cheese is of course in line with Kwasniewski)).

I thought of you, too, when as I listened to this broadcast on the topic of IF. I have heard this before, that IF may help with leptin signaling.

The exercise study cited was of interest as well - cycle sprints??? I must look into this; my doctor is on me to do some sprinting. This sounds like it has some preliminary research to back it up.

All,

The podcast is long, but I noticed that Kurt Harris thought it was good in the comments. If you listen, hang in there, it is good but it is slow-going. I carried my laptop around with me to listen as I did the laundry.

Here is a forewarning - Guyenet's orientation is whole foods, not so much low carb., so he says some things that are not particularly low-carb friendly. In the end, though, he does say that limiting carbohydrates for weight loss is his recommendation to 20% (he does not answer in terms of carbs).

If anyone is interested in insulin resistance, that was particularly interesting to me - insulin resistance as a response to inflammation.

We’re kicking things off with an interview with Dr. Stephan Guyenet, Ph.D. on obesity, body fat regulation, and weight loss. Stephan is a researcher at the University of Washington studying the neurobiology of fat regulation. He also writes one of my favorite blogs on nutrition and health, Whole Health Source.

Topics covered include:
  • The little known causes of the obesity epidemic
  • Why the common weight loss advice to “eat less and exercise more” isn’t effective
  • The long-term results of various weight loss diets (low-carb, low-fat, etc.)
  • The body-fat setpoint and its relevance to weight regulation
  • The importance of gut flora in weight regulation
  • The role of industrial seed oils in the obesity epidemic
  • Obesity as immunological and inflammatory disease
  • Strategies for preventing weight gain and promoting weight loss

It’s a bit long at 1:20, but I think you’ll enjoy it if you’re interested in this topic.

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/podcast...nd-weight-loss

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Old 04-17-2011, 12:38 AM   #216
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Ugh, I'm up late to do some work, yet I am facsinated by Stephan Guyenet and reading his articles. Again, if you go to his actual site, there are links for his references. I am fascinated, in particular, with his exercise recommendation. They are in line with my doctor on HIIT, and my doctor is one sharp dude (he put me on low carb years ago, saying it is the only thing that will work for metabolic syndrome - my doctor is on Neanderthin - a paleo diet).

My interest here is he writes about strategies to reset the fat point, rather than the futile recommentations we usually see! IF to reset the fat point, not for weight loss. Exercise to correct hormone signaling, not to burn calories. Love it, love it!!!

Here is his blog where he writes about some of the things in the broadcast:

Whole Health Source: The Body Fat Setpoint, Part IV: Changing the Setpoint

The Body Fat Setpoint, Part IV: Changing the Setpoint

Prevention is Easier than Cure

Experiments in animals have confirmed what common sense suggests: it's easier to prevent health problems than to reverse them. Still, many health conditions can be improved, and in some cases reversed, through lifestyle interventions. It's important to have realistic expectations and to be kind to oneself. Cultivating a drill sergeant mentality will not improve quality of life, and isn't likely to be sustainable.

Fat Loss: a New Approach

If there's one thing that's consistent in the medical literature, it's that telling people to eat fewer calories does not help them lose weight in the long term. Gary Taubes has written about this at length in his book Good Calories, Bad Calories, and in his upcoming book on body fat. Many people who use this strategy see transient fat loss, followed by fat regain and a feeling of defeat. There's a simple reason for it: the body doesn't want to lose weight. It's extremely difficult to fight the fat mass setpoint, and the body will use every tool it has to maintain its preferred level of fat: hunger, reduced body temperature, higher muscle efficiency (i.e., less energy is expended for the same movement), lethargy, lowered immune function, et cetera.

Therefore, what we need for sustainable fat loss is not starvation; we need a treatment that lowers the fat mass setpoint. There are several criteria that this treatment will have to meet to qualify:

It must cause fat loss
It must not involve deliberate calorie restriction
It must maintain fat loss over a long period of time
It must not be harmful to overall health

I also prefer strategies that make sense from the perspective of human evolution.

Strategies: Diet Pattern

The most obvious treatment that fits all of my criteria is low-carbohydrate dieting. Overweight people eating low-carbohydrate diets generally lose fat and spontaneously reduce their calorie intake. In fact, in several diet studies, investigators compared an all-you-can-eat low-carbohydrate diet with a calorie-restricted low-fat diet. The low-carbohydrate dieters generally reduced their calorie intake and body fat to a similar or greater degree than the low-fat dieters, despite the fact that they ate all the calories they wanted (1). This suggest that their fat mass setpoint had changed. At this point, I think moderate carbohydrate restriction may be preferable to strict carbohydrate restriction for some people, due to the increasing number of reports I've read of people doing poorly in the long run on extremely low-carbohydrate diets (2).

Another strategy that appears effective is the "paleolithic" diet. In Dr. Staffan Lindeberg's 2007 diet study, overweight volunteers with heart disease lost fat and reduced their calorie intake to a remarkable degree while eating a diet consistent with our hunter-gatherer heritage (3). This result is consistent with another diet trial of the paleolithic diet in diabetics (4). In post hoc analysis, Dr. Lindeberg's group showed that the reduction in weight was apparently independent of changes in carbohydrate intake*. This suggests that the paleolithic diet has health benefits that are independent of carbohydrate intake.

Strategies: Gastrointestinal Health

Since the gastrointestinal (GI) tract is so intimately involved in body fat metabolism and overall health (see the former post), the next strategy is to improve GI health. There are a number of ways to do this, but they all center around four things:

Don't eat food that encourages the growth of harmful bacteria
Eat food that encourages the growth of good bacteria
Don't eat food that impairs gut barrier function
Eat food that promotes gut barrier health

The first one is pretty easy: avoid refined sugar, refined carbohydrate in general, and lactose if you're lactose intolerant. For the second and fourth points, make sure to eat fermentable fiber. In one trial, oligofructose supplements led to sustained fat loss, without any other changes in diet (5). This is consistent with experiments in rodents showing improvements in gut bacteria profile, gut barrier health, glucose tolerance and body fat mass with oligofructose supplementation (6, 7, 8).

Oligofructose is similar to inulin, a fiber that occurs naturally in a wide variety of plants. Good sources are jerusalem artichokes, jicama, artichokes, onions, leeks, burdock and chicory root. Certain non-industrial cultures had a high intake of inulin. There are some caveats to inulin, however: inulin and oligofructose can cause gas, and can also exacerbate gastroesophageal reflux disorder (9). So don't eat a big plate of jerusalem artichokes before that important date.

The colon is packed with symbiotic bacteria, and is the site of most intestinal fermentation. The small intestine contains fewer bacteria, but gut barrier function there is critical as well. The small intestine is where the GI doctor will take a biopsy to look for celiac disease. Celiac disease is a degeneration of the small intestinal lining due to an autoimmune reaction caused by gluten (in wheat, barley and rye). This brings us to one of the most important elements of maintaining gut barrier health: avoiding food sensitivities. Gluten and casein (in dairy protein) are the two most common offenders. Gluten sensitivity is widespread and typically undiagnosed (10).

Eating raw fermented foods such as sauerkraut, kimchi, yogurt and half-sour pickles also helps maintain the integrity of the upper GI tract. I doubt these have any effect on the colon, given the huge number of bacteria already present. Other important factors in gut barrier health are keeping the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fats in balance, eating nutrient-dense food, and avoiding the questionable chemical additives in processed food. If triglycerides are important for leptin sensitivity, then avoiding sugar and ensuring a regular source of omega-3 should aid weight loss as well.

Strategies: Micronutrients

As I discussed in the last post, micronutrient deficiency probably plays a role in obesity, both in ways that we understand and ways that we (or I) don't. Eating a diet that has a high nutrient density and ensuring a good vitamin D status will help any sustainable fat loss strategy. The easiest way to do this is to eliminate industrially processed foods such as white flour, sugar and seed oils. These constitute more than 50% of calories for the average Westerner.

After that, you can further increase your diet's nutrient density by learning to properly prepare grains and legumes to maximize their nutritional value and digestibility (11, 12; or by avoiding grains and legumes altogether if you wish), selecting organic and/or pasture-raised foods if possible, and eating seafood including seaweed. One of the problems with extremely low-carbohydrate diets is that they may be low in water-soluble micronutrients, although this isn't necessarily the case.

Strategies: Miscellaneous

In general, exercise isn't necessarily helpful for fat loss. However, there is one type of exercise that clearly is: high-intensity intermittent training (HIIT). It's basically a fancy name for sprints. They can be done on a track, on a stationary bicycle, using weight training circuits, or any other way that allows sufficient intensity. The key is to achieve maximal exertion for several brief periods, separated by rest. This type of exercise is not about burning calories through exertion: it's about increasing hormone sensitivity using an intense, brief stressor (hormesis). Even a ridiculously short period of time spent training HIIT each week can result in significant fat loss, despite no change in diet or calorie intake (13).

Anecdotally, many people have had success using intermittent fasting (IF) for fat loss. There's some evidence in the scientific literature that IF and related approaches may be helpful (14). There are different approaches to IF, but a common and effective method is to do two complete 24-hour fasts per week. It's important to note that IF isn't about restricting calories, it's about resetting the fat mass setpoint. After a fast, allow yourself to eat quality food until you're no longer hungry.

Insufficient sleep has been strongly and repeatedly linked to obesity. Whether it's a cause or consequence of obesity I can't say for sure, but in any case it's important for health to sleep until you feel rested. If your sleep quality is poor due to psychological stress, meditating before bedtime may help. I find that meditation has a remarkable effect on my sleep quality. Due to the poor development of oral and nasal structures in industrial nations, many people do not breathe effectively and may suffer from conditions such as sleep apnea that reduce sleep quality. Overweight also contributes to these problems.

I'm sure there are other useful strategies, but that's all I have for now. If you have something to add, please put it in the comments.


* Since reducing carbohydrate intake wasn't part of the intervention, this result is observational.

Posted by Stephan Guyenet at 9:00 PM

Labels: diet, exercise, fat-soluble vitamins, gluten, hormesis, leptin, low-carb, meditation, overweight, paleolithic diet

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Old 04-17-2011, 10:52 AM   #217
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hey, i wanted to share my super-nerdy low-carb dream with y'all:
(it's funnier if you're a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan)

I dreamed that I had gone to high school with Alyson Hannigan & we were still friends, hanging out at her house with Nicholas Brendan & a bunch of other people, and Anthony Stewart Head brought us coffee from Starbucks. And he got me one with heavy cream and 2 Splendas!!!

idk why, because I don't follow celebrity gossip AT ALL, but I dream about them all the time! Sean Connery, Dolly Parton, Salma Hayek...once I took a hot air balloon ride with Matt Stone & Trey Parker!

I had another dream a few nights ago where I was at a potluck or buffet or something, and I was picking just the meat out of all the dishes! The night before I had dreamed that I was at a cafeteria pigging out on mashed potatoes, pasta, cake, etc...I guess I felt guilty & had to "get back on plan" even in Dreamland!

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Old 04-17-2011, 11:12 AM   #218
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omg, i just posted my dream on fb and my cousin pointed out that ASH did a bunch of Taster's Choice commercials in the 80s! that makes the coffee thing pretty hilarious!
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:45 AM   #219
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KT--I was very excited when the health food store I worked at started carrying Chocoperfection chocolate chips (b/c they are sweetened with oligofructose) and agave inulin fiber (10g fiber per Tbs, 0 net carbs). "Prebiotics" are all the rage now; the agave fiber tasted slightly sweet to me so I was hoping I could use it to sweeten baked goods...however, BOTH of these products caused painful gas problems for me, as do Jerusalem artichokes, which I love dearly! And I have a pretty tough tummy; foods like beans, broccoli, cabbage, etc which most people bad-mouth as gassy foods do not affect me...but man, inulin hates me!!!
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:42 PM   #220
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PirateJenny - Taster's Choice is more like my dream I love instant.

Chocoperfection - OMG, those things are like intestinal grenades for me!!! Ugh!

I have no clue what a Jeruselam artichoke is, but I see regular artichokes are on the list. I need to do more reading about this lower intestinal good bacteria supporting weight loss. Well, to check on thyroid/metabolic impacts - I did a quick google of artichoke and thyroid and on first blush, no negatives came to the top, just positive supports the thyroid type results. I'm going to pick some up, I love artichokes! Heh, artichokes instead of cauliflower, sounds like a good plan!

All - RE: Liver - heh, good news. While I was reading Peat, he said something about meat powder tablets. What???? Is there such a thing???? I am so thrilled, there is such a thing as.....liver tablets! Body builders take them. Wow, there is hope for me. I am not a big fan of supplements, but this sounds like a solution. He wasn't exactly talking about liver tablets, he was talking about (sorry if this is gross) powdered animal thyroid tablets. Anyway, back to liver, Peats recommends eating liver once or twice per week (it is mixed in different parts of the book), but not more, because too much is not good, too little isn't good either. Balance.

Oh, and my husband already said what if they are chemically processed...I'm taking the risk, because the only organ meats I am otherwise getting are microscopic anchovie guts! I can only eat a few pinches of these anchovies at a time.

That reminds me - Peats says the same thing about iodine. Too little is problematic, too much is a problem. He is therefore all for eating some salt. Isn't that interesting? I think we have members on teh board that avoid all salt at all costs. I have read that the hunter-gatherers will seek out sea food and seaweed. It seems some is important.

OK, some salt. No problem, love the pork rinds anyway.

Oh, gosh, I'm having trouble wtih those little pork rinds to pop. They don't pop, they "grow" slowly into puffs. Some puff, some don't, they burn easily, and they aren't as good as Turkey Creek. I might toss them, but I'll try making in the oven first.

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Old 04-17-2011, 01:21 PM   #221
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Jerusalem artichokes aren't artichokes at all; they are the root of a plant in the sunflower family. Possibly "Jerusalem" is a corruption of the Italian word for sunflower, "girasole".

They taste really delicious, quite a bit like artichoke hearts, and are full of inulin--so most of the carbs are supposedly not digestible. But they put my guts in knots
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:26 PM   #222
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Oh, good to know! I probably can't handle digesting them. I wish the chocolperfection had worked out. My daughter likes them.

I'm mostly looking for something else to use to scoop up my avocado guacamole (with bacon!), and the idea that it might help and not hurt is nice! I'm not going to eat much of it just in case there are digestive issues.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:27 PM   #223
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I buy canned artichoke hearts and saute them in a little olive oil, the whole artichoke is a PIA to eat so I buy the canned ones. I pulled that put for tomorrow night with the polish sausage which is awesome!!!! I am going back on Thursday for more Polish meats, everything was delicious. Funny the chocoperfection bars affect you that way, I am the malitol queen that causes unrest but keeps me regular, LOL but the chocoperfection have no effect.
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:25 PM   #224
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I buy canned artichoke hearts and saute them in a little olive oil, the whole artichoke is a PIA to eat so I buy the canned ones. I pulled that put for tomorrow night with the polish sausage which is awesome!!!! I am going back on Thursday for more Polish meats, everything was delicious. Funny the chocoperfection bars affect you that way, I am the malitol queen that causes unrest but keeps me regular, LOL but the chocoperfection have no effect.
Oh, yes, it is so much work to eat the artichoke! I didn't know what it was last time I tried to cook one and ended up throwing it out! I've since been served one sliced open in a restaurant, so I know what to do now. I ended up just eating it tonight with butter! It was really good that way, I like it, I have another way to get in some butter now!

Heh, this is a good sign that you might be Polish! I really like that and the Polish shop lady story. Waiting for your news this week!!! Here's hoping!!!
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:26 PM   #225
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Hey KT, how about artichoke leaves for dipping in your guacamole?! yum!!!

I saw a big bag of raw/unmarinated artichoke hearts SOMEWHERE a while back...gonna try to track them down!
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:49 AM   #226
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On Raymond Peats - OK, I have almost finished flipping through these books. One is a collection of articles, I missed that, I thought he was rambling!

I was hoping to read up on his thoughts about protein and gelatin (since I read Danny Roddy's comments), but his comments on protein in these books are more anectotal. On protein, my summary is that his thinking is that eating either muscle meats or gelatin are problematic if one is eating one or the other exclusively. Muscle meats are too high in some amino acids (and problematic for the thyroid), gelatin is lacking and too incomplete to rely on, but eating both creates a balance as the gelatin negates the anti-thyroid effects of the meat and liver. I think I already posted he says to eat liver @twice per week (and not overdo it - none is bad, too much is bad, balance). My take away on protein is that if you are eating just the muscle meats, you are not eating a whole food and it creates an imbalance.

He made interesting comments about potatoes, I believe this is observational on his part. He believes potatoes need to be studied for their nutritional components. He notes that some cultures (I can't remember what he mentioned) seem to subsist just fine on these potatoes even though they are an incomplete protein. He feels that potatoes and some of the "fatty fruits" must have nutritional components that seem to substitute for what we think of as the essential fatty acids.

I think this is really interesting! I know I have read Dr. Fuhrman (back in the day when I was off in a ditch trying to be vegetarian) talk about cultures like the Indonesians that subsist on little more than potatoes and vegetables they scrape off the land yet produce an unusual number of people that reach 100 years of age (although Peats was referring to some culture subsisting on mostly potatoes and bananas, as I recall). Perhaps it is really inadviseable to try to work the Kwasniewski low-protein plan without eating the 50 carbs of potatoes. I do wonder if people that fail on Kwasniewski are not eating the potatoes.

I found a few more tidbits to look into. He says codliver oil is anti-vitamin E. Hmm, I know some people that are drinking a lot of this oil! Just another observation that perhaps not eating a whole food is the wrong way to go. I would hate to try to play Sherlock Holmes with all the supplements. Who knows waht imbalances one could end up with.

He is very much against estrogen supplementation for most women for menopause issues or PMS symptoms- this is another anti-thyroid beef he has. He thinks progesterone (sp?) cream should be attempted first, this seems to be pro-thyroid. I can't absorb all he says about this cream and am skeptical since he says so much about it, it almost sounds "magical" but I will keep it in mind for further review. My mother was really aggravated by the hot flashes, and I am not looking forward to that!

I am not going to guzzle orange juice, but I found out why he drinks it (he recommends drinking a few ounces intermittently throughout the day). It's a thyroid thing. He says that one needs glucose to convert T4 to T3, and a lack of carbohydrate in the diet makes the body focus on making ketones and takes it away from the task of converting the T4 to T3. I am not expert on thyroid, but man, I have seen posts on this board about the T3 problems.

PirateJenny - I have been thinking about the guacamole dip for the artichoke!

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:26 AM   #227
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I found a summary online of what Peat has said on gelatin by Lita Lee. I don't thinhk the link can be posted. Hmph, Great Lakes is the brand I buy. It is very beefy when hot but does not seem to have much flavor or aroma when cool.

The Perfect Protein — Gelatin

This brief excerpt on gelatin (collagen) is from Dr. Ray Peat’s January 2004 newsletter, Gelatin, Stress, Longevity. Get the complete newsletter and references from Dr. Ray Peat, P.O. Box 5764, Eugene, OR 97405, $4.50.

For years I have been interested in gelatin (the cooked form of collagen) and there are now popular brands of collagen, most of which are very expensive. Then I read this newsletter from Dr. Ray Peat, describing why gelatin is an excellent dietary supplement and recommending Great Lakes Gelatin, the purest form of gelatin, easily obtained and inexpensive.

People have asked me why I recommend gelatin since I recommend eating only whole foods. While that is correct, we often are not eating whole foods, including whole animal foods. We throw away the skin and are told not to eat the skin because it has fat in it. However, this is precisely where the gelatin is found.

Gelatin contains thyroid-protective amino acids that can help balance the anti-thyroid (thyroid-suppressing) amino acids prevalent in muscle meats (beef, lamb, poultry and fish), mainly cysteine and tryptophan. In addition, the anti-thyroid amino acids are released in large quantities during stress and hypothyroidism itself increases the catabolism (tearing down) of protein even though general metabolism is slowed down.

Both tryptophan and cysteine inhibit thyroid function and mitochondrial energy production, and have other effects that decrease the ability to withstand stress.
Tryptophan is the precursor to serotonin, which causes
inflammation, immunodepression, and generally the same changes seen in aging. Histidine is another amino acid precursor to a mediator of inflammation: histamine.

Gelatin contains no tryptophan, and only small amounts of cysteine, methionine, and histidine. The main amino acids in gelatin are glycine (35%), proline / hydroxyproline (21%) and alanine (11%). These amino acids have cyto (cell) protective actions.

Increasing consumption of gelatin and gelatin-rich foods will support normal function and structure in people who have a tendency towards the degenerative and inflammatory diseases of aging.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:31 AM   #228
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I just checked my credit card to see if there was a charge for the Optimal Nutrition book ( I have been checking) and it is there so I should be getting my book soon I hope!

I am a bit confused about what to eat, hopefully the book will help.
I bought some of the pork rinds and I LOVE them but I have portion control issues with them. I feet really bloated after eating them for 5 days in a row.

Is Knox gelatin the same as the gelatin you all are eating? That's what I bought.
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:55 AM   #229
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Bone Broth - The New Hotness (by Danny Roddy)

The New Hotness: Bone&Broth - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Animal-Based... - StumbleUpon

Ha! Hot off the presses. Danny Roddy posted a notice on FaceBook on this article. Again, the real article has links to references. Love the title! I made two batches yesterday. Danny is not an "expert;" he's an engineer at Apple obsessed with how diet impacts hair loss.

The New Hotness: Bone Broth

Monday, April 18, 2011 at 11:31AM
BONE BROTH IS HOT! Ray Peat, Chris Kresser, Matt Stone, Chris Masterjohn, Sean Croxton, Sally Fallon — they're all doing it.

What's the big deal you ask? It depends on whom you're asking. Sally Fallon would say that bone broth is nutrient-dense treat.

Ray Peat would explain that the amino acids methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan that are found in large amounts in muscle meat, have an anti-metabolic effect. Peat suggests that balancing muscle meat with a rich source of gelatin counters the negative effects of methionine, cysteine and tryptophan leading to a more efficient metabolism (healthy thyroid).

Peat and Sally both have some great points, but I'm more interested in bone broth (gelatin) to see if it has any benefits for those with hair loss. So far it appears that the digestive enhancing, anti-stress and gut restoring qualities might make gelatin a worth-wild part of your hair loss regimen.

Here is what I've found so far:

Digestion

Ray Peat explains that glycine, the main amino acid found in gelatin, may be useful in combating hydrochloric acid deficiency and increasing digestive capabilities:

Glycine also helps digestion by enhancing gastric acid secretion. Research published in 1976 established that only proteins stimulate gastric acid secretion, but apparently not all amino acids do so. Glycine is one of those that do, a fact that was known in 1925. The effects of other amino acids and their related peptides on acid secretion has not been determined, but researchers have proposed that "glycine may have application in the design of chemically defined diets for patients with gastrointestinal disorders."

Chris Kresser notes that gelatin can be a useful tool in repairing the integrity of the gut:

"Homemade bone broth soups are effective in restoring a healthy mucosal lining in the stomach. Bone broth is rich in collagen and gelatin, which have been shown to benefit people with ulcers. It’s also high in proline, a non-essential amino acid that is an important precursor for the formation of collagen."

Stress

The anti-stress actions of glycine were first brought to my attention by a very smart premed student that went by the handle of "Trouble." Trouble was ALL ABOUT restoring stress tolerance, bile acid conjugation, and digestion by using a methylated glycine supplement called trimethylglycine (TMG). She literally helped thousands of bodybuilders return to equilibrium with her unorthodox approach.

Ray Peat speaks about the inhibitory (anti-stress) nature of glycine:

"A generous supply of glycine/gelatin, against a balanced background of amino acids, has a great variety of antistress actions. Glycine is recognized as an “inhibitory” neurotransmitter, and promotes natural sleep. Used as a supplement, it has helped to promote recovery from strokes and seizures, and to improve learning and memory. But in every type of cell, it apparently has the same kind of quieting, protective antistress action. The range of injuries produced by an excess of tryptophan and serotonin seems to be prevented or corrected by a generous supply of glycine. Fibrosis, free radical damage, inflammation, cell death from ATP depletion or calcium overload, mitochondrial damage, diabetes, etc., can be prevented or alleviated by glycine."

Glutathione

It should be noted that glutathione is made from cysteine, glutamate and glycine. I've mentioned glutathione a couple of times being the body's natural detoxifying agent. Glutathione is decreased in many disease states including hair loss.

This doesn't make sense to me, but it appears that restricting methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan increase glutathione status in rats. To my understanding sulfur amino acids are used to synthesize glutathione. In their absence, perhaps this process is more efficient, or an increase in thyroid leads to more glutathione.

Nutrients

Bone broth is also loaded with some valuable macro and micronutrients. According to Sally Fallon, stock contains minerals in a form the body can absorb easily—not just calcium but also magnesium, phosphorus, silicon, sulphur and trace minerals.

Mark's Daily Apple has a great article breaking down all the nutrients found in bone broth.

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:57 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Joannamaria View Post
I just checked my credit card to see if there was a charge for the Optimal Nutrition book ( I have been checking) and it is there so I should be getting my book soon I hope!

I am a bit confused about what to eat, hopefully the book will help.
I bought some of the pork rinds and I LOVE them but I have portion control issues with them. I feet really bloated after eating them for 5 days in a row.

Is Knox gelatin the same as the gelatin you all are eating? That's what I bought.
I have the Knox and Great Lakes.

I hope you get your book soon!
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:00 AM   #231
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I have been low carbing for over a year with no weight loss. I was so strict the first 6 months; but then got discouraged and would go off for a day. I would get right back on. It seems low-carb helped me "NOT" to gain weight, because the minute I went off I'd gain 5 pounds.
I had my thyroid checked twice and it's in the normal range, but when I was doing zero carb (to try to lose weight) my t3 went down from the first to the second test. So it is probably a good thing I stopped doing zero carb because it might make me go out of the normal range.

Thanks for all the info!
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:06 AM   #232
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Thanks KT!
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:53 AM   #233
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KT, you are amazing to seek out and share this great info. I can't thank you enough.

I made bone broth this weekend too. I generally wait until I have 4 or 5 carcasses and then make a big batch. Freezing and storing it is problematic - my fridge is a 'side by side' and that makes the freezer portion awkward to say the least. Anyway I just wanted to suggest for anyone who has the same problem - I line a cookie sheet with wax paper and once the broth has cooled and gelled, I plop 2 tbsp portions on it, cover and freeze. Then repeat until I have most of it frozen for easy use in recipes or just by itself.

Funny that bone broth is considered 'hot'. It is probably as old as man's ability to start fire itself!!

I am surprised that liver is only recommended bi-weekly. I just ordered 4 lbs. of organic chicken livers to be delivered this week. I guess they will go in my freezer - I already have a bunch of pate made up! I think I should freeze some of that as well. Cripes, I really need a stand alone freezer!!! Just no room for it. Maybe I could put it in my bedroom!!!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs" -The Spark of Reason

“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:05 PM   #234
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Maybe all that broth is what made my skin glow I am still eating it, I wonder how long it stays good in the fridge,I ate a little over a quart last week, you really cant eat large quantities of it like regular soup, I find it gets you full really fast. I am going to make some more French Onion soup with it too!

Very interesting I hope your theory of eating skin to heal skin is right, LOL I am eating those pork rinds and getting bloated to the max, LOL They are really good though!!!
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:14 PM   #235
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Bejewel,
So you are getting bloated too? I love those pork rinds and two cases just came, yikes!! I'm scared to open them. Would it help to drink lots of water?!?
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:55 PM   #236
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Yes I drink tons of water but I eat half the bag and feel like I am going to explode, the BBQ flavor contains MSG and a little soy, so maybe that is why so bloated! those chili lime ones are just the best thing ever, I have never liked PR but those are just so darn delish! Another girl said the salt and vinegar are really good too.

Hey girls had artichokes tonight, canned 1/2 c 5 carbs, 4 fiber, 1 net carb, thee they sat so lonly in the pantry, sauteed with a spritz of lemon juice yum with the polish sausage, I was starving and had just a little and was stuffed, so that is good! I am staying very clear of the brownies still lurking the boys better finish them tonight! They are saying evil things to me like eat me!!!!

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Old 04-18-2011, 06:00 PM   #237
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KT, my mom swears by the progesterone cream, has used it for years. I plan to use it if the hot flashes get too bad. No estrogen supplementation for me. Funny thing is, I have been in perimenopause for awhile now, and would have hot flashes, but since starting LC, I rarely have them.

THanks for all the time you spend researching and posting this info for us
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:46 PM   #238
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:06 AM   #239
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Joannamaria - interesting observation on the zero carb - T3 drop on your personal experience. It is really something to think about.

I used to sip lemon water a few times a day back in November - December and I was losing weight just fine doing that. Atkins '72, I recall, says the juice of a lemon is acceptable (the category was under juices, not fruits if I remember correctly). I bought some lemons yesterday, I'm going to do it again. I'm not going to go crazy with the lemon, I just really like it and see no reason to avoid it now. I think I've become too afraid of taking in small amounts of carbs here and there throughout the day, and I need to relax about it, esp. considering that it could be supporting my T3 number to actually let it happen. I like to squeeze 1/2 a small lemon in 32 ounces of water to cart around and sip.

Anyway, back to the T3. If zero carb-ing is an anti-thyroid maneuver, it seems this could be tricky. I mean, zero carbing would work for a while for weight loss, but if it eventually slows the metabolism, then trying to add carbs back might result in weight gain just due to the new, slower metabolic rate, unless and until one recovers by converting T4 to T3 and speed the metabolism back up. I'm not saying I know this, it just seems plausible.

Clackley - thank you for the broth-freezing tip! That is very helpful! I have the side-by-side set up as well. Gosh, I would love a deep freezer too - heh, somewhere to throw the carcasses, OMG, I do have "bodies" in there that would scare my family if they pulled out the plastic bags...I had no idea we were so cool with the new hot!

The idea of sleeping with the carcasses nearby - so funny!

Amber/Bejewelme & Joannamaria - the porkrinds, oh my gosh, my husband is giving me the stink eye crunching those things. He can't have much salt, so I have to eat these things on the sly now. I might have to give them up! I've thought about smashing them up in the bag to make them only useful as croutons in the soup. Still, he might hear me crunching them. I feel so guilty! OMG, I never in a million years thought I would be sneaking pork rinds of all things. I used to think they sounded gross, but now, I like them for my guacamole and soup! I never had Turkey Creek before, that really makes a difference.

Yep, I have to say my skin is looking really nice!!! The avocado instead of cheese and coconut oil instead of cream is probably mostly behind it, because I have no hives and less acne, but I really like to think it is the gelatin-collagen rich diet too!

Don't get me wrong, I would love to eat more dairy, it is high in vitamins. I notice that the avocado and coconut oil do not stimulate my appetite at all. I feel kind of silly taking a heaping teaspoon of coconut oil in the afternoon, and then waiting to see if it "warms" me up (Peats talks about this, but he says the effect lessens over time). Oh gosh, it reminds me of reading about that silly Shangri-La diet where people were taking some sort of oil for weight loss. What the heck, who knows, maybe there is something about that. I haven't noticed anything yet. I would love that "energy" people talk about on the board from coconut oil. Here's hoping.

Kimmarie - I'll read up on the progesterone cream.

I'm glad you're all enjoying the thread! I love to talk about what I'm reading and read your ideas and experiences!

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Old 04-19-2011, 05:44 AM   #240
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I was just thinking about the Shangri-La diet the other day. I tried it briefly. The idea was to take a tbsp. of olive oil 1 hour prior to eating. It was suppose to trick the brain into getting calories without associated taste and smell. It occurred to me that this might be of benefit because of the satiating effects of the oil itself. Consuming flavorless, tasteless calories was counter intuitive to me and I didn't last long on that one.
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