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Old 04-06-2011, 08:44 PM   #121
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Key Tones, have you tried "Dandy Blend"? It doesn't exactly taste like coffee, but it tastes very good! It's very dark & rich like coffee. The last few times I made coffee, it tasted horrible to me; today I made some DB...sometimes I forget how much I love it!

Today I had 4 slices of Taylor ham for "breakfast" (around 1pm; I started putting HWC instead of light cream in my morning coffee/DB & it keeps me full for a couple of hours), and around 8pm I STILL wasn't hungry! I finally made some tuna salad because I couldn't stop thinking about eating :/
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:46 PM   #122
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CalRon,

I hope you are still reading! I found an interesting article today about fatty liver by psychiatrist Emily Deans (I found her through reading Dr. Kurt Harris); I remember you talking about this topic. I'll post a paragraph here, and then the link:
Today I'm going to focus more on a little essential nutrient called choline, which is one component of the phospholipid phosphatidylcholine. A brain-focused article about choline isn't quite as sexy as brain-eating, so forgive me the zombie pull-in. But choline is exceedingly important as a preventative against liver disease and fatty liver, and it is one nutrient that is richest in animal offal products and eggs, and not particularly plentiful in modern processed food and processed grain-heavy diets. There are even some small human trials of induced choline deficiency and fatty liver that was reversed by choline repletion.
Zombieland 2 - Early Mother's Day Edition | Psychology Today
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:48 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Key Tones, have you tried "Dandy Blend"? It doesn't exactly taste like coffee, but it tastes very good! It's very dark & rich like coffee. The last few times I made coffee, it tasted horrible to me; today I made some DB...sometimes I forget how much I love it!

Today I had 4 slices of Taylor ham for "breakfast" (around 1pm; I started putting HWC instead of light cream in my morning coffee/DB & it keeps me full for a couple of hours), and around 8pm I STILL wasn't hungry! I finally made some tuna salad because I couldn't stop thinking about eating :/
Thanks, I'll check out the Dandy Blend.

Sounds like you had a very good day!
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:38 AM   #124
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Thanks Key Tones.

I keep that site on my favorites list.

For now, THIS thread is the one I never miss.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:11 AM   #125
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Yes me too I check this thread multiple times a day!

Goose,
Thank-you for that link!

Keytones,
Thank-you so much for all your research work.

I am understanding that we need to eat lots of eggs and organ meats. I'm having a hard time, as I don't like eggs that well and I don't like organ meats at all.

What are you all eating?

Thanks!
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:53 AM   #126
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Yes, thank you for the articles. Very interesting reading and I love the Zombie theme!! So I am guessing that 'hot dog craze' I went through last week might have been a good thing!
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:05 AM   #127
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PJ- I seeyou are in Jersey do you have Taylor Pork Roll there? That is such a big thing here and that is like the one pig product i dont like, LOL I really want to get to the market on Fri I might try driving today to the pharmacy and see how that goes since it is close to me.

We also have a polish deli I have not been there since I was reading this and want to see some good stuff, if you need anything translated KT that you cant read email me and I can print it and take it along! I know 2 Polish girls at the market that are fluent in Polish and English! Funny if the man coming today for the DNA tests turns out to be my father I am really half Polish, LOL He still has a thick accent heck maybe he speaks Polish? He was born over there I will find out more today I think!

KT- get those turkey Creek pork rinds OMG they are so good, I hated all others I had tried, I will be scarfing more of them today with sour cream or maybe onion dip!!! LOL

Hey if people see you at the gym, yeah!!!!! Shows you are working it, I used to get all worked up about that stuff now I dont really care, its like being naked and looking like a sharpei, who cares at this point? LOL I think after 40 you just dont give a crap!!!!

Marrow and bones are on the list I am going to make some good broth and then some French onion soup again! THe market also has the free range organic chickens and beef products so will stock up on them too. Gram is coming next week so she will make me liver and chicken livers, I have to admit touching raw liver freaks me out so I let her make it! LOL For those of you that dont like liver, might I suggest you revisit it one more time, my fiancee swore he hated liver, wouldnt try it finally I said dont you hate when the kids dont try stuff? He tried this beef liver pate I had and ate the whole container, try pates, try chicken liver, kidneys, calves liver step out of the norm and you might be surprised how your tastes have changed

Day 5 some areas of scars are actually flush with my skin!!! OMG I am seeing improvement everyday! Sitting here comparing scar photos is killing me, LOL I am not doing so great with the not smoking but I am vaping with the ecig and no nicotine in it! All these improvements but I am so afraid if I quit I will start eating and sabotauge myself when I am getting so close to goal! Ugghghg

I am a little bored sorry for the ramble!!!!

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Old 04-07-2011, 08:15 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannamaria View Post
Yes me too I check this thread multiple times a day!

Goose,
Thank-you for that link!

Keytones,
Thank-you so much for all your research work.

I am understanding that we need to eat lots of eggs and organ meats. I'm having a hard time, as I don't like eggs that well and I don't like organ meats at all.

What are you all eating?

Thanks!
When I was reading the forum thread from 2 years ago, there was a lady on it that was eating the Dr. K ratio's but not eating organ meats and she was still getting benefits from it. I don't eat organ meats either but I do eat eggs. I think you'll be fine if you just stick with muscle meat and fat.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:12 AM   #129
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I've lived in NJ over 15 years and have never bought Taylor ham to make at home before, but I saw it at my A&P and decided to try it. There is a "mild" version that I like better; the "real" pork roll is very sour! I've been trying to buy meats that are made from mystery parts

I noticed my skin getting smoother & softer when I started eating pork rinds, gelatin broth, etc. I *love* pâté! The thing is, my mom raised me vegetarian & I didn't eat meat until I was about 22 years old...I still don't really know how to cook most of it, or what cuts of beef to buy, but I'm not scared of weird parts when other people cook them! I've had tongue at Colombian restaurants, beef hearts at Brazilian restaurants, oxtails at Peruvian restaurants, chicken livers at my Italian neighbors' and made pork-head tamales with my grandma...love it all but am a little intimidated by the thought of buying those parts raw & cooking them myself!

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Old 04-07-2011, 09:29 AM   #130
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Thanks Goose!
I can eat eggs it's but not 5 a day. I only like the yolks, (which is good according to Dr. K) I used to dip my toast in them, but when I went low carb I didn't eat many.

I should try some liver.....any good recipes?? I can't even imagine trying to eat brain and all that other stuff.

Maybe I should eat more hot dogs?!?
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:35 AM   #131
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All--I've been mulling over some issues concerning protein. Since I am having difficulty with the eggs and offal, I really want to point out that if you are not eating the recommended proteins, I doubt 50 grams is sufficient. The idea is eating the highest quality protein reduces your requirement. Another consideration - Dr. Eades and Ray Peat (I am not sure I am on board with him, but I am reading...) both state that as we get older we don't make as much stomach acid and this increases protein requirements because we can't break it down. Please take care with this!

I also have to say the sour cream didn't work for me, even though it has probiotics I was really hungry before bed last night (always a bad sign) and woke up with a tummy ache. I am back to looking at coconut oil and avocado to help fill the need since dairy is an issue for me.

I am so curious about Ray Peat (Ph D. in Biology) now because he has said some things that are in line with Kwasniewski - he believes in eating a lot of gelatin and cellulose, I undertand, as well as dairy (milk especially). I followed a trail from Dr. Harris to Danny Roddy to Ray Peat last night (one referencing the other, I mean, in their articles). I am not sure if I went off in a ditch, but I am intrigued. Peat feels muscle meats are a lower quality protein and can cause thyroid issues if eaten in excess (I have heard this before) and I understand has concerns about an ultra low carb diet also causing thyroid issues (conversion of T4 to T3, he feels, needs sugar (!!!), he uses fruit and orange juice (oh my gosh). He feels the conversion is blocked when the body has to make its own glucose. He also feels it is best to minimize vegetables (due to plant toxins) and eat potatoes and fruit. I am intrigued now. Here is someone else also pointing out too much muscle meat and ketosis can cause thyroid issues.

If any of you are concerned about thyroid and are curious, here is the interview, which seems valuable. If you know anything about this or Dr. Peat, I am curious!
An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs

I will answer more questions and make more replies later, I just have to run.

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Old 04-07-2011, 11:22 AM   #132
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gelatin and cellulose? are you sure? cellulose is a plant fiber?

maybe gelatin and collagen?
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:30 PM   #133
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Key Tones, thanks for the link. So much to think about when you are hypothyroid. For me, its been tough to up my carbs. It's just so easy to have meat, eggs and some fat. I haven't been eating potato or milk in years. Looks like I'm going to have to try and add them back it could help move my weight down.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:11 PM   #134
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gelatin and cellulose? are you sure? cellulose is a plant fiber?

maybe gelatin and collagen?
oh, yep, brain backfire, thanks. Here is the paragraph:


Mary Shomon: You've mentioned eggs, milk and gelatin as good for the thyroid. Can you explain a bit more about this?

Dr. Ray Peat: Milk contains a small amount of thyroid and progesterone, but it also contains a good balance of amino acids. For adults, the amino acid balance of cheese might be even better, since the whey portion of milk contains more tryptophan than the curd, and tryptophan excess is significantly antagonistic to thyroid function. The muscle meats contain so much tryptophan and cysteine (which is both antithyroid and potentially excitotoxic) that a pure meat diet can cause hypothyroidism. In poor countries, people have generally eaten all parts of the animal, rather than just the muscles--feet, heads, skin, etc. About half of the protein in an animal is collagen (gelatin), and collagen is deficient in tryptophan and cysteine. This means that, in the whole animal, the amino acid balance is similar to the adult's requirements. Research in the amino acid requirements of adults has been very inadequate, since it has been largely directed toward finding methods to produce farm animals with a minimum of expense for feed. The meat industry isn't interested in finding a diet for keeping chickens, pigs, and cattle healthy into old age. As a result, adult rats have provided most of our direct information about the protein requirements of adults, and since rats keep growing for most of their life, their amino acid requirements are unlikely to be the same as ours.

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Old 04-07-2011, 04:45 PM   #135
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I've been using gelatin for more than a year and add it anywhere I can, which is almost anywhere. I use the kosher beef variety.

I bought some pork hocks in the mexican section today. They are not the smoked variety but fresh frozen...skin still intact so they should have a good dose of collagen.

But I add gelatin to my stocks so get the extra kick. It's been a good thing.

Dairy has also been my friend since it has never caused me heartburn...which is my guage for everything.
I was getting raw milk for a while but it was too overwhelming having to use it up each week as a single consumer.
I did make butter and soft cheese, yogurt, buttermilk, icecream. It was fun kitchen science.

I had to cut back, though....still consume dairy daily....and oranges a few times weekly w/o problem.

I can't go full on Peat which is fine since there are too many contradictions and unanswered questions AND I do have some blood sugar issues. Also my recent thyroid panel was stellar which was not true when I was a whole food vegetarian.

It seems that I am able to strike a balance and when I start trying other stuff, I can lose all the positive results I have gained. So I take what works from a few plans and go w it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:30 PM   #136
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Jem, What kind of gelatin do you use? Is it just the unflavoured kind at the grocery store? TIA
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:38 PM   #137
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Hi goose1, since Jem hasn't answered you yet, hope you don't mind if I chime in!

If you are going to make an effort to add gelatin to your diet, it is much more economical to buy it by the pound. NOW Foods offers it, so you can probably get/special order it from your local health food store, or order it online (Netrition carries NOW brand, Amazon carries several brands). As long as you keep it dry, it won't go bad for years!
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:32 PM   #138
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Thank you all for posting! I have so many new things to think about and try. I don't mean to miss responding to anything, you make this very interesting for me! I am definitely upping my gelatin consumption.

CalRon - you are so kind! I'm glad you're still reading. I really love the Evolutionary Psychiatry, Hyperlipid, and PaNu blogs. Emily Burns is so bright, they all are. I really love them!

Clackley - I really think I found my way to these blogs based on some of your posts!

RE: hot dog craze - so funny! I guess these things aren't bad for you after all, huh?

OH, I forgot to mention I have your avocado soup recipe on the brain! I ran out and bought bacon and cooked it up tonight to have the bacon fat in stock. I will be making it this weekend, it sounds so delicious!!!!

JoannaMaria - I am eating gelatin, Applegate Farms sausage/bacon, chicken bone broth, avocados, and for carbs--potatos, blueberries, tomatoes, cucumber. I have to admit I am still finding it hard to eat the carbs, I am not used to the idea of potatos and they are growing eyes now!

I just picked up a glucose machine (I haven't used one in a while; it seemed like there was no reason anymore) because I want to make sure I am not messing with trouble on 50 carbs. My feeling is I need to spread them out.

Amber/Bejewelme - I got the porkrinds today! I love the Chili-Lime! I haven't tried the others yet, I'll eat to much if I crack open another bag! I'm so glad you're doing so well after surgery, but gosh take it easy. I love reading your thread and what you make! I think you must be Polish, here's hoping!!!!

Goose1 - I hope you find success. I am trying to find my way with an eye out for what I have read are side effects of the ketogenic diet, I hope I am finding good information, but I don't have a way to know that what I have found is good advice except to try it out. My thyroid is supposedly normal, yet I seem to have symptoms that point to it. I have read the thyroid threads; I am aware the blood tests are not the only valid indicators.

Jem51 - thank you for posting again! I had not thought of gelatin in soup.

PirateJenny - I hope my skin improves! That is really good news!

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Old 04-07-2011, 11:28 PM   #139
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More food for thought. Here are a couple of posts from Danny Roddy's blog. I have started reading it when Kurt Harris mentioned his blog. Here is a post about low protein diets:

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2010/...e-testos.html:

The tides are turning in regards to the optimal intake of dietary protein. When I got into this whole gig a couple of years ago, it seemed like everywhere I looked, the blanket recommendation I encountered was 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. This works out to be 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight, which is the highest amount suggested from the accepted range of about 0.8 to 2.2 grams per kilogram of bodyweight (to find kg of body weight divide your body weight in pounds by 2.2). This recommendation is deep rooted in body builder mythology although; the same approach is used by the incredibly ripped Martin Berkhan of Leangains.

Over time, I noticed this recommendation slowly dwindled from 1g per lb. of bodyweight, to 1g per lb. of lean body mass, to 1g per kg of bodyweight, and so on.

What is wrong with the one-gram-of-protein-per-pound-of-body-weight rationale? If you are trying to put on Olympic amounts of muscle, probably nothing, but for longevity it is a different story.

Healthy People

The first argument for a low protein intake (~10%) is that no non-industrialized people eat that way. Stephan of Whole Health Source explains that "high protein" diets are essentially a myth:

"The phrase 'low-carbohydrate diet' is a no-no in some circles, because it implies that a diet is high in fat. Often, the euphemism "high-protein diet" is used to avoid the mental image of a stick of butter wrapped in bacon. It's purely a semantic game, because there is no such thing as a diet in which the majority of calories come from protein. The ability of the human body to metabolize protein ends at about 1/3 of calories (1, 2), and the long-term optimum may be lower still. Low-carbohydrate diets (yes, the ones that are highly effective for weight loss and general health) are high-fat diets.


Healthy cultures around the world tend to consume roughly 10 to 20% of calories from protein:


Masai - 19%
Kitava - 10%
Tokelau - 12%
Inuit - 20%, according to Stefansson
Kuna - 12%
Sweden - 12%
Human milk - 6%"


Longevity Mechanism

Nora Gedgaudaus, author of Primal Body, Primal Mind, is at the forefront of my mind when I think of protein restriction. She is the only author I've come across suggesting a possible mechanism behind low protein intake and its relation to increased longevity. Nora explains that the newly discovered mTOR pathway, when down regulated, leads to a decrease in disease and an increase in longevity. This pathway is largely controlled by dietary protein intake.

"So why would I recommend limiting protein intake at all…much less to the RDA of 44-56 grams…amounting to little more than about 6 ounces of natural protein per day??? This wouldn’t look much larger on a dinner plate than a deck of playing cards…only you’d be dividing that into 2 or 3 meals. Say WHAT??"

[...]

"...But it turns out there’s a secondary reason that caloric restriction seemed to confer a marked improvement in health and longevity, and resistance to degenerative processes and cancer. It has to do with something scientists found called mTOR–which stands for mammalian Target Of Rapamycin. I talk about this in my book at considerable length and won’t overly go into it here. Suffice it to say that this newly discovered metabolic pathway, “mTOR”, apparently serves as a sort of metabolic “protein sensor”. It belongs to something called the “P13K” pathway that is activated by insulin, nutrients and growth factors. It turns out that keeping mTOR down-regulated–by limiting protein intake to what is simply necessary for maintenance–is actually part of the key to maximizing our internal repair and regeneration, immune function–enhancing longevity, anti-aging and minimizing the risk of cancer. Coupled with maintaining low insulin levels, keeping the mTOR pathway largely down-regulated helps keep deterioration and disease at bay and helps keep us young. Ironically, dietary fat has no negative influence here.

Because mTOR is intimately involved with growth and reproduction, however, there may be instances–such as while seeking successful conception, pregnancy, extreme work loads, high level athletic training and critical growth periods from infancy through adolescence where the practice of limiting protein and mTOR might be less desirable. During time periods such as this the stimulation of cellular proliferation becomes more necessary. Apart from times like this, however, higher than needed amounts of protein can take away from your own maintenance and repair, lessen immunity, and make you far more susceptible to cancer."

Nutrient Status

Limiting protein also might yield better nutrient status. Chris Masterjohn explains that excessive protein intake depletes vitamin A reserves:

"The utilization of protein requires vitamin A. Several animal studies have shown that liver reserves of vitamin A are depleted by a high dietary intake of protein, while vitamin A increases in non-liver tissues. One explanation for this is that adequate protein is necessary for vitamin A transport. In one study researchers fed radioactively-labeled vitamin A to rats on low-protein and high-protein diets, using the amount of radioactivity present in exhaled gases, urine and feces as a measure of the metabolism of vitamin A, and found that vitamin A is indeed used at a higher rate on a high-protein diet.

Vitamin A is not only depleted by a high intake of protein, but it is also necessary for the synthesis of new protein, which is the goal of the bodybuilder. Rats fed diets deficient in vitamin A synthesize protein at a lower rate than rats fed adequate vitamin A. Cultured skeletal muscle cells increase the amount of protein per cell when exposed to vitamin A and D, but not when exposed to vitamin D alone."

Metabolic Rate

Yet another benefit of consuming less protein may be a higher metabolic rate. Matt Stone sums up famous thyroidologist Dr. Broda Barnes' firm position on increased protein intake contributing to decreased basal metabolism in his eBook RRARF:

"Broda Barnes was a firm believer that consuming too much protein was really draining on the metabolism, particularly if calories were limited. He stated, “...it has been clearly established that a high protein diet lowers the metabolic rate, [therefore] symptoms of hypothyroidism will be aggravated...” This may not be true on a calorically-superabundant diet, but protein is not used for metabolic fuel in the same way fats and carbohydrates are – making them preferable to protein. As calorie consumption increases, less protein is needed to maintain muscle mass as well – as little as 30 grams per day for an adult male. Plus, protein is found in all foods, and the more overall food you eat, the more protein you get – whether you eat meat, fish, and eggs or not. For this reason, portions of meat, fish, eggs, cheese, and poultry should probably be on the small side – 2-5 ounces per meal depending on your body size and food preferences. If you are drinking lots of milk as part of your approach, you don’t need any supplemental meat at all, and RRARF can certainly be done as a vegetarian with whole milk, starches, and vegetables."

Testosterone & Cortisol

Coincidentally, lower protein intake is connected to higher levels of testosterone. It seems counter-intuitive when trying to shake the mental image of the muscle-bound gym-rat sucking down gobs of protein, but go figure. Riley from Life of Riles blog explains:

"Many bodybuilding diets focus on consuming large amounts a protein. Extra protein that is not necessary and is a burden on the systems of the body. Protein is not a normal energy source and is extremely inefficient if it is called on to become one. While doing much studying, I have found yet another reason to avoid too much protein:

'The significant negative correlation between protein and resting T concentrations is consistent with the findings of Anderson et al. (2), who demonstrated that a low-protein diet (10% of total energy) was associated with higher levels of T compared with a diet higher in protein (44% of total energy)'

Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise

'Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 +/- 34 ng/dl, mean +/- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 +/- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05)'

'In contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 +/- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 +/- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05)'

Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ra... [Life Sci. 1987] - PubMed result

Increased Testosterone and decreased Cortisol!! That is the perfect combination. It appears that a high carbohydrate is extremely anabolic and anti-catabolic."

So in short, we have evidence for:

■Increased longevity via down regulation of the mTOR pathway
■Increased nutrient status in regards to vitamin A
■Increased metabolism by limiting protein as an energy source
■Increased levels of testosterone
■Decrease levels of cortisol

I have limited myself to about 4-6 ounces of protein a day and I haven't noticed any ill effects. I will continue with this experiment, especially since it saves me so much cash. Spending extra on very high-quality protein becomes a bargain when you're eating 6 ounces a day.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:33 PM   #140
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Danny Roddy Continued:

Here is another post on low stomach acid and nutrient absorption. I have read Dr. Eades discussing that as we get older we make less stomach acid. Very interesting!

Is Stomach Acid The Missing*Link? - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Animal-Based Nutrition For Hair & Health

Is Stomach Acid The Missing Link?

Saturday, January 16, 2010 at 5:03PM

Is there anyone reading that has not experienced the pure dread of waking up in the middle of the night with a knot in your leg that feels like the size of a basketball?

My experience is as follows:

Cramps weren't around during the daytime, but loved showing up at 3-4am. Waking up — gasping for air — I would grab whatever leg was throbbing and immediately leap out of bed to my feet. I would describe the pain as having felt like someone jabbed a knife in my calf and began to twist.

My nightly routine to counter these attacks was to hobble around for 10 minutes until they were gone. Once the cramp finally did go away, it was a toss up if I would wake up again from another cramp. It sucked.

Until now I thought this phenomenon was just part of the acclimation period to a very low carbohydrate diet (VLC) or carnivorous diet. My goal for this post is to garner some thought on the idea that cramps are related to a much bigger problem, a lack of hydrochloric acid (stomach acid).

Hydrochloric acid (HCL) is secreted in response to the food we eat, specifically protein. HCL in large is responsible for the energy intensive task of breaking down protein as well as promoting the absorption of many key vitamins and minerals. HCLs other duties include maintaining the acidic pH of the stomach and warding off bacteria, fungi, and pathogens.

When stomach acid is low we are opened up to bacterial overgrowth, lowered resistance to infection, and high probability of nutrient malabsorption. If that was not bad enough, when the stomach lacks acidity, food will not be emptied into the duodenum for further digestion. Half digested food is now sitting in the stomach, fermenting, causing inflammation, stress and potentially causing acid reflux symptoms.

We have touched on nutrient malabsorption, but let us go over a few that are interesting.

■Zinc - Although it is important for women, zinc is the man mineral. Zinc has a hand in libido, fatty acid utilization, b-vitamin utilization, sperm production, hair growth, and just about every important bodily function you can think of. Oddly enough, zinc is also crucial for the production of stomach acid.

■Magnesium - Think of magnesium as the relaxation mineral. It would not be surprising if most Americans were deficient considering high blood glucose and insulin resistance cause rapid evacuation of this important mineral. Engaging in physical and mental stress induces chronic over stimulation of your adrenal glands; essentially milking your body's stores of magnesium. Magnesium along with potassium and calcium (the "um" minerals) are all-integral in promoting relaxation, especially in the muscles.

■Vitamin B12 - Reduced acidity in the stomach delays the release of "intrinsic factor" which is needed to absorb vitamin B12 later on in the small intestine. Muscle weakness, extreme fatigue, and neurological problems are all the calling cards of a vitamin B12 deficiency.

■Histidine - Low stomach acid will hinder protein digestion crippling the 50,000 bodily functions that require amino acids. While histidine is not the most glamorous amino acid, men and women with libido trouble may want to pay close attention to histidine. Histidine is converted into histamine, which has a strong role in promoting the ease of achieving an ******. Furthermore, histamine increases vasodilation, which may promote blood flow to sexual organs.

What was this post about again?

Cramps. Carnivorous ones.

Okay, so minerals are not absorbed so well when stomach acid is low. This naturally leads us to our next question:

Why is stomach acid low?

Here are a couple common conditions associated with low stomach acid:

■Hypothyroidism - The suppression of gastrin, the hormone responsible for the release of HCL, is compromised during thyroid hypo-function.

■Chronic Mental & Physical Stress - Digestion is a parasympathetic nervous system dominant process, which means we need to be in a relaxed state to properly secrete HCL and digestive enzymes. Along with relaxing at meals, one can make sure to avoid stressful situations whenever possible. Stress causes excretion of important vitamins (b-vitamins especially) and minerals including zinc - which as I mentioned is needed to produce HCL.

■H. Pylori Infection - I will let Dr. Stephan from Whole Health Source field this one.

There are a few different ways to reduce your stomach's acidity level. The most straightforward is to take an antacid, or any number of drugs that lower stomach acidity (as in the mouse study above). But can we do it naturally? Sure, all it takes is a little Helicobacter pylori infection! Luckily, most people already have one.

H. pylori is a bacterium that's the main proximal cause of stomach ulcers. Antibiotics are now the standard treatment for ulcers, and they're effective. Treating an asymptomatic H. pylori infection with antibiotics increases stomach acidity, suggesting that H. pylori is capable of suppressing the secretion of stomach acid. In another study, eradicating H. pylori with antibiotics improved nearly all patients suffering from hypochlorhydria (insufficient stomach acid).

Like any organism, H. pylori likes to stay well-fed. Its favorite food is hydrogen gas (H2), and the more it gets, the more it grows. It's not the only bacterium to like H2. Salmonella, of food poisoning fame, requires H2 to become pathogenic. Clostridium bacteria are also associated with elevated H2. H2 is produced by the fermentation of food by bacteria in the digestive tract. It's very small so it diffuses around the body, reaching the stomach lining where it's eagerly gobbled up by H. pylori. It may be equally good food for a number of other parasites around the body.

■High Sugar Diet - Diets high in refined carbohydrates, combined with vegetarian sensibilities (high fiber), hamper the body from producing adequate amounts of stomach acid. Plant foods containing phytates actively bind to zinc, magnesium, calcium, and iron escorting them out of the body. Perhaps a lack of stomach acid is why vegetarians and vegans claim that red meat just "sits in their stomach". I would be willing to bet most of them are achloridic for sure...

■High Protein Diet - HCLs main duty is to break down dietary protein into peptides. Nora Gedgaudas, author of the phenomenal book Primal Body, Primal Mind, points out that protein intake above that which the body needs is extremely taxing on digestive system. If one has HCL issues, perhaps less protein would be the way to go avoiding the potential stress related to poor digestion.

My over simplistic conclusion is that there is a possible correlation between hydrochloric acid deficiency and a lack of the "um" minerals: magnesium, potassium, and calcium. These minerals are crucial in regards to avoiding cramps and spasms.

If Dr. Jonathan Wright, author of Why Stomach Acid Is Good For You, is to be believed, 90% of Americans are deficient in HCL. That is a huge number, but I would not be surprised if it were true. Correcting any possible issue with digestion, whether it be consuming pemmican, eating less protein (and more fat), eating less meals a day, or supplementation with hydrochloric acid (betaine HCL); will assure the absorption and proper utilization of the bodies most important nutrients. Perhaps the replenishment of stomach acid will make the cramp induced misery that some experience when adventuring into VLC/ZC land more tolerable or better yet, nonexistent.
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:25 AM   #141
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I have some packets of that Knox gelatin so if I get marrow and bones nad boil broth I should add some to it?

Jenny- you sound like me I like all that stuff but the idea of touching it raw sort fo scares me I am going to the market tonight I was like duh I cant lift the bags so I have to wait for Tony the farmers market is open til 7:00.

KT- you are da bomb always good stuff to read!!!!
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:13 AM   #142
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Hi KT,
I have been avidly following this thread. Thanks for all the great research! I have lowered my protein and upped my fat based on these recommendations. I love eggs. Will review the thread again this weekend and try to incorporate some broth, etc. Maybe even some pate.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:45 AM   #143
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Kt again with the awesome posts!!! Thank you for this. Lots of 'food for thought'!!

Kim, thank you for mentioning pate! I love it and am going to make some this weekend.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:57 AM   #144
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I have Great Lakes kosher gelatin.
There are many brands out there but I just went on line and searched for the best deal and a quality product.

Peat says it is best absorbed if warmed. He doesn't address dissolved then cooled as in jello type desserts. But he says that it will still be absorbed even if just added to cold stuff.

I add it to smoothies/egg nog, any soup i make since it takes minutes to dissolve in hot broth, pumpkin bake type stuff and any gel dessert such as panna cotta. It can be added to hot cocoa (I just add it to the cold liquid and let it dissolve as it heats up). When I add it to cold stuff, I allow it to soften a bit.

As you start adding it, you'll discover lots of ways to use it.

You shouldn't need to add it to bone broths which are long cooked but I do. Also much of gelatin is found in the skin so I feel that bone broth is somewhat deficient, just my opinion.

The problem I have w Matt's idea that high starch/sugar is the way to go for ideal thyroid/ health is; I was there as a vegetarian/vegan/macrobiotic for near 20 years.
I saw many become fat and ill and this was an organic whole foods world not the junk food vegetarian that exists today. I saw obese peop lose massive weight then after a year or so start gaining it back on the same food and this is probably due to thyroid damage.
(A clean diet may initially heal but it may not be ideal for the long haul).
My thyroid function decreased and I struggled w my weight...even was medicated but never stayed w the thyroid that was given.

It was not until I went LC that my thyroid began to improve and now it is great. But I have many collagen related issues so I was deficient all those years and I still see a cardiologist....I would like to heal from those years and feel it's not out of the question since my thyroid did so.

But I never stayed w VLC or any extremes very long and I think that things improved the most when I reduced my protein. I also included some fruit and beans (I was living w/o a kitchen for a time so bought premade soup at the local coop several times weekly). Used yogurt daily as well as some nuts/seeds.

Dr K has peop who've healed heart valve problems. Also BG control really assists w healing.

So, I just plug along w this mix of ideas and continue to improve....how much is yet to be seen and the results of my vegetarian days may ultimately kill me....
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Old 04-08-2011, 10:00 PM   #145
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Jem51 - thank you for posting! I am doing the same, taking some ideas to layer onto the Kwasniewski Optimal Diet. I am sticking to 30 to 60 carbs (I definitely do not believe high starch/high sugar is the right thing to do!).

I didn't realize you are seeing a cardiologist. My husband has multiple heart problems. I am trying to get him to move to this plan. He has reduced his carbs to maybe 100 to 150 per day anyway. He only recently started low carb around Christmas (a health scare finally motivated him). He does eat some things I prepare - the soups! This can only help!

I can't wait to go shopping tomorrow to pick up some things to make more soup stocks! I have a lot of plain gelatin in stock, I will definitely add to the soups. Maybe you all will think this is gross, but I crumbled up some pork rinds and dropped them in my soup tonight. I thought it was good - it was sort of like having croutons. I use Turkey Creek brand; they are a little less salty. I found them at Walgreens but recently ordered some after Bejewelme told me about more flavors.

Oh, and I must pick up more avocados!!! I must try Clackley's avocado soup!

All - I'm glad you enjoyed the articles!

Kimmarie - I'm glad you are enjoying the thread! I wish I liked pate!

Last edited by Key Tones; 04-08-2011 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 04-09-2011, 03:53 AM   #146
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KT- you know that article on leg cramps mentions zinc? That was one of the minerals I was told to help heal, and when I placed my order it was out of stock so I might try running to Wal Mart or something and seeing if I can can some. The leg cramps were never an issue until I started low carbing, I get them up the front of my shin and if I get one I get 10 all night, I now take my vitamins late like at 8:00 pm and that seems to help the leg cramps.

So guys I got these big old beef bones full of marrow and stuff do I just boil them or should I add salt and seasoning or onions or celery? And still confused about when to add the gelatin?

I told KT- went to the Polish Market, the girl thought my son looked Polish so told her the whole story, she knew of this diet she said she would translate for me anything so if you guys have stuff in Polish let me know.

All her meat comes straight from Poland into NYC where it is mixed and shipped, all organic, all nitrate free I bought several types of sausages and polish bacon I am eating this morning!

I hit a new low this morning so I am stokked to see if maybe some of this good Polish meat will help! And I had my chicken livers yummmm
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:08 AM   #147
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I couldn't find zinc supps. yesterday either. I just looked up food sources and it seems that oysters are the highest at: Oysters, 6 medium 76.7(mg) 513 (percent of daily value). I think I will enjoy my zinc in the form of a can of oysters!!
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:58 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
CalRon,

I hope you are still reading! I found an interesting article today about fatty liver by psychiatrist Emily Deans (I found her through reading Dr. Kurt Harris); I remember you talking about this topic. I'll post a paragraph here, and then the link:
Today I'm going to focus more on a little essential nutrient called choline, which is one component of the phospholipid phosphatidylcholine. A brain-focused article about choline isn't quite as sexy as brain-eating, so forgive me the zombie pull-in. But choline is exceedingly important as a preventative against liver disease and fatty liver, and it is one nutrient that is richest in animal offal products and eggs, and not particularly plentiful in modern processed food and processed grain-heavy diets. There are even some small human trials of induced choline deficiency and fatty liver that was reversed by choline repletion.
Zombieland 2 - Early Mother's Day Edition | Psychology Today
KT, a great article, thanks for the link.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:48 AM   #149
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B, I simmer my bones w a splash of ACV added for 24 hours. At night I turn it down to just under simmer. I add the gelatin toward the end since it just needs to dissolve.
If I use store bought broth I just sprinkle it into whatever I'm cooking even if it's just an individual serving.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:28 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Bejewelme View Post
So guys I got these big old beef bones full of marrow and stuff do I just boil them or should I add salt and seasoning or onions or celery? And still confused about when to add the gelatin?
You may want to ROAST the marrow bones first! I haven't done it myself, but I think the marrow might be more appealing that way than boiled for hours. Then the roasted bones make a more tasty stock.

When I make broth, I add some onions & celery and usually some herbs like rosemary, thyme, tarragon (but that depends if you like those flavors in whatever you might be using the broth for). As jem mentioned, a splash of vinegar (to help draw the calcium out of the bones) and no need to add the gelatin til the end or when preparing the final dish.
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