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Old 08-14-2011, 01:33 PM   #961
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Wow, I can't believe I haven't posted for a week! It's been a busy one; I've had company staying with us and my daughter had a birthday. I have a vacation coming up, and the next few months are the busiest time of year.

So, I just am popping in to say, I am still alive! I am obsessive and a big worrier, and so I am focusing on things to keep myself on track at work.

On another topic...

I heard Stephan Guyenet and Gary Taubes had some sort of heated debate at the Ancestral Symposium, eh? Mostly I read about it on Jaminet's blog - he throws in his own views.

Gary Taubes and Stephan Guyenet: Three Views on Obesity | Perfect Health Diet
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:36 PM   #962
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Good to hear you are busy and still obsessing!! Me too! I found a little bit of the Taubes/Guyenet dialogue on youtube...


I have heard Stephan speak on his reward hypotheses and I thought it was full of holes. The issue that Taubes brought up about the experiment with the use of a bland food was one of the obvious question marks.....? I don't buy it at least not for the reasons that Stephan makes. In fact, I really bulked at it because the implication is that fat people are fat because they just like to eat too much. Same old &#!+.

But as a side point - look at all the empty seats in that video - what the hell - I would have loved to fill one of them!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs" -The Spark of Reason

“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!

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Old 08-14-2011, 05:57 PM   #963
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KT- yeah woman a whole week!!!!!! What the heck we miss you!!!!!!!

I saw elsewhere you are stressed and busy, that is always a bad combo for weight loss, I hope this week eases up for you!!!!!
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:38 PM   #964
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Cathy - thanks! Heh, I think they both have good points, but I think in terms of life-changing information, Taubes wins. I would give anyone Taubes book, and I have, that wants to lose weight. I look to Guyenet and Jaminet for information on where to refine my diet.

Amber - thanks, you are such a sweetheart. Fortunately, I am not much of a stress eater. I think I was when I was younger and eating crappy carbs. Hard to remember that now!

I hit a bank of videos from the Ancestral Health Symposium. I'm listening to this one now. Well, trying. You know, running around, cooking, laundry, and all that, and listening at the same time.

"The Paleo Solution" by Robb Wolf on Vimeo
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:57 AM   #965
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K.T. I agree with you on relevant information. I liked Stephan until he got into this whole 'reward' stuff. I think his theory makes some sense but the science that he is using to substantiate it is less than acceptable in my humble opinion. I think he needs to do more research on his hypothesis to be creditable and I think that was what Gary was trying to drive home with him.....?

Thanks for the link, I will listen/watch with interest!
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:15 AM   #966
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Oh, well, there are certain things Guyenet discusses that seem obvious. I mean, yeah, I could easily overeat on cookies, cake, pizza, ice cream, but it doesn't happen with whole foods. Sometimes you see someone in the main lobby that has gone off the deep end; it is usually this sort of thing. I think people already know this about junk food.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:59 AM   #967
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Using the term more 'palatable' is a gross understatement. Our food has become hyperpalatable (if that wasn't a word before, it is now).

KT, it is much more difficult to overeat whole, un/der seasoned food but soon as you start adding sugar, fat, flavorings and even salt the playing field changes.

I was at a wedding Saturday and there was a bowl of smokehouse almonds. I ate a handful (haven't eaten a nut in over a month), and the flavor was so intense....I could have easily consumed the whole bowl.

What I'm saying is; it's not sweets per se but everything is made to appeal (or over-appeal) to the sense of taste/smell.

My problem w Taubes is that he is openly attacking; not just discussing which makes him seem very insecure...putting someone down openly to make onesself feel superior.
That last little bit should have been said in private.
Really very inappropriate.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:25 PM   #968
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I didn't see it that way but rather that he is impatient with 'scientists' (which Stephan is) using bad science practices. It is what Taubes has been about for many years. It is what bugs me about Stephan as well - he is so smart and knows better but somehow has allowed himself to ..... well I guess it is a matter of opinion.

AND, I am old and impatient - I want to cut to the chase and don't like the b.s.
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:25 PM   #969
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Jem - yeah, I agree on excitotoxins and salt and some seasonings.

Oh, I'm not defending him personally. I imagine the Ancestral Health Symposium was a bit taken aback; it seems like it is meant to be a rather friendly gathering of like minds from what I've seen on facebook.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:52 AM   #970
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On weight loss - I hope I am not speaking too soon but I think my stall may be coming to an end. I have been stalled since the first of October (in case I haven't mentioned this before ). I weight and chart daily and over the past month, I have been down consistently by a few lbs.. I am still not at my lowest weight of 172.5 but have been hanging around 174.5 and compared to March, April, May and June where I was hanging around 179.5 and even 180 - this is progress!!

I thought I could share it here because I feel very supported in this thread and if it turns out that I spoke too soon - well, I won't be too embarrassed to admit it. Now if I can just break the 172.5 barrier, then I will be singing it to anyone that passes my way!

Thanks for 'listening' to my obsessiveness!

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Old 08-16-2011, 10:42 AM   #971
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Good luck, Clackley!!!
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:56 AM   #972
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Cathy, congratulations. Am sending you good thoughts for continued successes.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:11 PM   #973
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Yes, Cathy, I to am very happy for you. Can you notice any changes in your life since you started losing?

Whatever, congratulations.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:16 PM   #974
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Cathy!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

man woman you deserve it, you had the stalls of the century and still kept plugging, I get all crazy and do crazy stuff which usually doesnt help, LOL Dont be sad if it bounces, I always record the new low and then pray it hangs on, LOL I had to stop weighing everyday its making me nuts!

And ****** is down, like I cant get in I am losing it!!!!
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:38 PM   #975
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Cathy,

That is significant progress and excellent news!!!!

I am so happy to hear this!!!
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:51 PM   #976
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I am really enjoying comments from Dr. Kurt Harris on the Guyenet/Taubes incident. I didn't read the whole chain; I just scrolled through to read Harris. If you read, keep going until the end. He does believe low carb is the right diet for type II diabetes (it saved me).

NAD = neolithic agents of disease (flour, sugar, industrial seed oils).

Whole Health Source: Ancestral Health Symposium Drama
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Old 08-17-2011, 05:20 AM   #977
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Thank you all for your kind words of support! Ron, no changes in my life that I can determine. If this continues, I will put it down to 'healing' via improved nutrition and supplements.

K.T. thanks for the link. I off to read it now!
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:43 AM   #978
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KT, thanks for the link. I especially enjoyed the comments by Dr. Deans, Dr. Harris, and ItsTheWooo. All those comments make it ever so obvious that what works well for one person could spell disaster for someone else. I do wish that the doctors and scientists who post that ABC or XYZ is true, would state those things in such a way that makes it clear that 123 and blue/green/yellow may have different requirements, each and every time they make the ABC/XYZ statements.

Hope you all are doing well.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:11 AM   #979
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Hello, again. Stan has an interesting post up at his blog about the difference between a high fat diet as per Dr. K, and a high fat diet which is high carb:

Heretic: Fat disrupts sugar sensors in pancreas causing type 2 diabetes

It seems that high fat, high carb keeps the pancreas from doing its job, and can trigger diabetes. He has an interesting link on that.

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Old 08-18-2011, 11:54 AM   #980
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Ah, yes, very good...I do remember Kwasniewski said the best diet is high fat/low carb and just enough protein, and the next best diet would be the japanese diet (high carb/low fat) but NOT to mix it up or suffer ill health effects (and he listed various diseases associated with mixing it up).

Very nice article, Auntie Em!
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:54 AM   #981
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I have MIO for so long but wanted to say "YEAH" for Cathy! Awesome!
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Old 08-19-2011, 07:55 AM   #982
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Dave over at The spark of reason has his take on the Taubes-Guynet dust up.
He doesn't post a lot but when he does it's very thought provoking.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:11 AM   #983
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Auntie Em- that makes perfect sense, there is no way you can eat high carb and high fat without getting fat, when my carbs are higher, and I mean quality carbs I keep the fat on the lower side, when the fat is higher I have to keep the carbs lower. I know from m own eating if I eat something like donuts, ice cream, etc I can blow up several pounds of bloat overnight, and think about the worse foods, what are they, chips, donuts, cake, carbs and fat together!!!!
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:23 AM   #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalRon View Post
Dave over at The spark of reason has his take on the Taubes-Guynet dust up.
He doesn't post a lot but when he does it's very thought provoking.
Ron, great link - I am reading with great interest!
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:29 AM   #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalRon View Post
Dave over at The spark of reason has his take on the Taubes-Guynet dust up.
He doesn't post a lot but when he does it's very thought provoking.
I love the analogy he makes of those with a broken metabolism - I quote...

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken carbohydrate metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs"!

Brilliant! I am openly saying, I am going to steal that one starting with my siggy!
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:37 AM   #986
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Yes, Ron, thank you for the links! Excellent articles!

I am always exasperated by the notion of the high carb plan being an answer based on populations not developing diabetes. Yes, but once you have it, oh my gosh...I have tried and I was starving, miserable, and gaining weight on these types of "solutions." Furhman's diet was a disaster for me in more ways than one.

Cathy - that is the best quote from the article! Once your metabolism is broken, it is a different ballgame!
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:14 PM   #987
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Jaminet (of the Perfect Health Diet) posted a good article on thyroid. I think his diet is something like 100 or 150 carbs but only 50 carbs for diabetics.

His view is that this talk of thyroid issues on low carb stems from the polyunsaturated fat, not the reduced thyroid. I need to review this further when I can better focus on it. I'm posting now before I forget about it.

Perhaps my dipping into nuts and avocados and such is slowing me down. I have already given up salad dressings and mayonaise and the likes - any kind of vegetables oil has been out for a long time.


Low Carb High Fat Diets and the Thyroid | Perfect Health Diet
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:04 AM   #988
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Love this Chris Masterjohn article on the egg yolk. What a nutritional powerhouse!

I have wondered about why some eat just the yolk. I had heard the cooking the egg white destroyed the avadin, aparently this is only partially true...I will give just yolks a trial, this is very interesting!

The Incredible, Edible Egg Yolk
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:48 AM   #989
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I am probably the only one who's not on the anti PUFA wagon. My southern upbringing refuses to let me go there.

I grew up where fried chicken was the usual and anything else fried but chicken was the most common meat on the table.
Of course there was fried catfish and chicken fried steak....all cheap meat.

Crisco was the most common grease used and often the only. These 80-90 y o women had used Crisco (proudly) since it's introduction. So by the time I was a teenager, that would've been 40-50 years.
Those old ladies were still chasing chickens around their yards and growing their own vegies.

And lets not forget peanuts....daily. And, of course, pecans...bushels for free.

The south has always been known for higher rate of obesity but it was unusual compared to today's standards.
I can remember the 'fat ladies/men' which I could never keep track of now since it is the majority....everywhere.

So, there it is.....I am probably very unpopular in this area.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:27 AM   #990
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Hi, all. Ron, thanks for the link. I, too, find the whole Kitavan subject rather irrelevant.

I thought I couldn't give up spuds. I did. Then, I thought I'd miss my dear parsnips. I don't. Then, I thought I'd have to keep broccoli. It's gone. The nightshades, and the FODMAPS, out. (Except for a smidgen of lactose.)

Next, I thought I'd need to keep this, that, or the other veg. I crossed the great divide to only eating my own, homegrown herbs and a few leaf vegs: Swiss chard, and a Chinese leaf brassica. Leaving the starches behind got rid of many allergy symptoms, digestive troubles, and another level of "the dreaded carb cravings". (Could we have a catchy word for that, please?)

When I went from LC to VLC, I didn't know I was moving along a continuum that would lead to the most ancestral diet I could manage. Dr. Harris phrase, "broken metabolism", hit home with many of us.

I continue to notice improvements in health and well-being.

KT, that article of Chris' on the egg yolk, along with Dr. K, was the impetus for my months-long, egg yolks-only experiment. I'm now experimenting with eating the whole egg. I find the yolks easier to digest, but the whites do seem to have something that I need. I'll be experimenting as long as I'm around to eat eggs, I guess.

Best wishes to all.
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