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Old 07-13-2011, 07:58 PM   #841
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Cathy, fish oil is not from the liver and is high in omega 3. It has some blood thinning effect.
CLO is from the liver as the name indicates and that is why they are different...Apples and oranges.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:07 PM   #842
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Cathy,

Thanks for the heads up on Chris Masterjohn - I love listening to him. I googled it and thought I found it, I actually listened to a different podcast on the same website. It was good - he explained the importance of eating liver, and if not eating liver, to eat egg yolks. Also, to avoid polyunsaturated fat and eat fresh fruits/vegetables. Of course, I don't agree with eating fresh grains (I mean, grains in general, I find extremely fattening). Anyway...

I will listen to the other podcast as well.

Auntie Em,

Since I am tied to computers all day with little I can do about that, well, I think I am screwed there...

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Old 07-13-2011, 10:36 PM   #843
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In reading Chris Masterjohn's review of the Perfect Health Diet, Chris does believe a low carb diet is best for people with metabolic issues.

Here is the review. I enjoyed reading it quite a bit. It is rather Kwasniewski, I think, in many ways. The ratios are a bit different, but having read part of the book myself, I know they say 50 carbs for diabetics. Liver, egg yolks, bone broth soup, brain/bone marrow, seaweed, leafy greens, fermented vegetables (I can't do that one, but anyway), and safe starches.

Interesting - we convert carbs to sat. fat anyway, why put the body up to this unnecessary job - just eat the fat! Beautiful!

Heh, I made myself a snack of seaweed and butter (yep, cold Kerrygold butter rolled in seaweed is pretty darn good).

= = =

Perfect health Diet by Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet

A Review of Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet’s Perfect Health Diet: Four Steps to Renewed Health, Youthful Vitality, and Long Life
December 28, 2010
Reviewed by Chris Masterjohn

The awesome husband-and-wife team Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet recently sent me a copy of their new book Perfect Health Diet to review. Creating a diet that can be described in fewer than 300 pages and has as its primary aim not merely fat loss, muscle gain, heart health, better sex, or the treatment of a specific disease but rather the all-encompassing pursuit of “perfect health” is an insurmountable task. It would be almost certainly impossible to accomplish in a way that is not subject to at least a few caveats and criticisms, but in writing The Perfect Health Diet the Jaminets have done a stellar job in assembling a beginner’s guide and starting point to pursuing the perfect health we should be inheriting from our ancestors.

Paul Jaminet, PhD, is a physicist, software entrepreneur, and entrepreneurial consultant, and Shou-Ching Jaminet, PhD, is a vascular biologist. They each recovered from chronic illness after searching and searching for a diet that would help them heal, and the Perfect Health Diet is the result. It is composed of four strategies for achieving optimal health: optimizing macronutrient ratios, minimizing food toxins, optimizing vitamin and mineral (micro) nutrition, and combating infectious disease.

The Jaminets make very well developed arguments for their macronutrient ratio recommendations, but I think these are best used as a starting point for each individual rather than as rigid ratios that will work best for everyone. The discussion of food toxins is extensive but not nearly comprehensive. The micronutrition section is very high quality, and the presentation of pathogenic infection as both a pervasive cause of chronic disease but one that is largely modifiable by diet is a welcome integration of these two fields. Ultimately, the book promotes a whole lot of great food and provides a useful starting point to put someone on the path towards healing and health.

The Jaminets run a great blog over at PerfectHealthDiet.Com where they regularly expand on their recommendations, post recipes, present new ideas, post occasional fun stuff, and allow readers to comment on their posts.


The Perfect Health Diet At a Glance — Great Foods

The Perfect Health Diet is based on “nutrient-rich superfoods” like egg yolks, liver and other organ meats, bone and joint soups, brain and bone marrow, seafood, seaweed, green leafy vegetables, and fermented vegetables. It includes a number of other meats, fats, oils, and “safe starches” to provide sufficient protein and calories. With great foods like this, Perfect Health Diet gets my stamp of approval.

Optimizing Protein, Carb, and Fat Ratios on The Perfect Health Diet
The Perfect Health Diet is 20% carbs, 65% fat, and 15% protein by calories. By weight, it is 65% plants and 35% animal foods. As such, it is a low-carb diet, but not a low-plant diet. Most of the carb calories come from the “safe starches,” while most of the plant material consists of low-calorie, low-carbohydrate vegetables and a small amount of fruit.
The Jaminets consider both macronutrients — protein, carbohydrate, and fat — and micronutrients — vitamins and minerals — to each have their own “marginal benefit curve,” where there is an optimal intake that constitutes the “plateau range.” Below the plateau range, deficiency sets in; above the plateau range, toxicity develops.

Although the Jaminets advocate a low-carb diet, they put a lot of emphasis on the body’s need for glucose as a structural molecule, a brain and muscle fuel, and an immune booster. They likewise recognize that although protein is critical, not only may large excesses lead to “rabbit starvation,” but even small excesses may decrease longevity and hamper the immune system. Glucose, for all its necessity, can poison the body’s tissues in excess, contributing to nerve damage, diabetes, strokes, heart attacks, bacterial infections, cancer, and virtually every other disease. While polyunsaturated fats may contribute to oxidative stress and inflammation when provided in excess or in the wrong omega-3-to-omega-6 ratio, saturated and monounsaturated fats are the safe, non-toxic macronutrients.

The Jaminets make important points about the interconversion of carbohydrate and protein. The liver can make glucose from protein, so carbohydrates are not technically essential. The Jaminets make a strong case that it is preferable to include at least 200 calories of carbohydrate in the diet, but allow flexibility in whether carbohydrate or protein is used to fulfill the remainder of the glucose requirement. There are people who do well on zero-carb diets, but many people whose livers do not make glucose robustly may be vulnerable to glucose deficiency on such a diet.

They also make important points about the conversion of carbohydrate to fat. If our livers convert much of the carbohydrate in a high-carb diet to loads and loads of saturated fat, how can eating saturated fat itself be harmful? The Jaminets make a compelling argument that eating fat might be much safer than letting excess glucose hand around until it is eventually converted to fat anyway.

How do they arrive at the 20:65:15 ratio? The Jaminets rely largely on the convergence of four pieces of circumstantial evidence, supplemented with a copious amount of data gathered from free-living humans. None of this evidence is fool-proof, and I suspect that humans have the capacity to eat a much broader range of macronutrient ratios, but this ratio may serve as an ideal starting point for many people.

Their first piece of circumstantial evidence is Loren Cordain’s analysis of 229 hunter-gatherers, who ate an average 30:50:15 macronutrient ratio with a 65:35 plant-to-animal ratio. They supplement this with isotope evidence suggesting our Paleolithic ancestors ate even more animal foods than this, and suggest that the encroachment of civilization on hunting territories may actually have increased carb intake. The Jaminets believe that our Paleolithic ancestors ate a range of 5-35% carb, 50-70% fat, and 15-25% protein.

These ratios are similar to those obtained from human breast milk, after adjusting for the excess of carbohydrate provided for the infant’s growing brain, and are similar to the composition of the human body. Some research, moreover, shows that mice prefer high-fat diets. Beyond these studies in mice, however, the Jaminets provide a full chapter arguing that most mammals eat a high-fat diet, whether they are carnivores, omnivores, or herbivores, because the plant foods that omnivores and herbivores eat are so fibrous that they obtain the bulk of their calories from short-chain fatty acids produced by fermentation of fiber in the gut. Together, these observations constitute the last three pieces of circumstantial evidence. The Jaminets further cite metabolic data from living humans about the capacity to handle carbohydrate. All of these pieces of evidence are interesting and deserve consideration, but none of them constitute the final word.

Katherine Milton has pointed out (here) that when “casual agriculturists” and hunters that hunt with modern guns are excluded, Cordain’s 229 “hunter-gatherers” are reduced to only 24. Although Milton often seems biased in favor of plant foods, I’m not sure how much “hunter-gatherers” hunting with modern guns can tell us about what humans were eating 40,000 years ago.

Likewise, archaeological evidence will be subject to endless debate as new discoveries are made and as people argue about whether absence of evidence can truly indicate evidence of absence. The Jaminets cite “clear evidence for the grinding of cereal grains” dating to 21,500 BC, well within the Paleolithic era, and cite evidence of sorghum grain residues on stone tools at an African site dating to 103,000 BC. Researchers believe they used the sorghum grasses for bedding, kindling, and possibly baskets. An eternity could be spent debating whether they were actually eating the grains, and if so, what proportion of their diet those grains constituted.

Hot off the presses, a new report published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences (found here) found grain residues in the teeth of Neanderthals in Belgium and Iraq who are believed to have lived 36-46,000 years ago.

At the Iraq site, they found evidence of the consumption of 73 starch grains. Ten were members of the Triticeae tribe that includes wheat, barley, and rye, and most likely close relatives of barley. Fifteen appeared to be members of the Triticeae tribe that had been cooked with moist heat. They also found sixteen dental residues of different species of the fruits of the date palm, and four other unidentified tree fruit residues. The 136 dental starch residues at the Belgium site were more difficult to identify, but they included sorghum relatives.

The authors noted that the finding of starchy plant food consumption does not contradict isotope data, which can only detect meat and protein-rich plant foods. In other words, the types of evidence do not overlap enough to determine proportions of different food groups with any confidence.

The other evidence for an ideal macronutrient ratio presented in Perfect Health Diet is also subject to a number of caveats. Adult humans may have similar nutritional needs as infants, or they may not. Our nutritional needs may be similar to our body composition, but not if the turnover rate of different macronutrients is different. Short-chain fatty acids are metabolized quite differently from long-chain fatty acids, so it is difficult to see the metabolism of carnivorous and herbivorous animals as fundamentally the same, although it may be true that most mammals consume a diet low in carbohydrate. While the diet of other mammals is interesting, however, it is quite plausible that humans could be quite unique among mammals in their dietary needs, just as they are quite unique in their technological and intellectual capacities. Long-term carbohydrate consumption, among a number of other variables, will alter our capacity for utilizing carbohydrate.

At the 2010 Wise Traditions Conference, Dr. Stephan Guyenet gave a presentation on the traditional diets of the Pacific islands (a recording will be available soon here), where he uncovered health-promoting diets that were over 90% carbohydrate and others that were mostly fat, with a whopping 50% of calories as saturated fat. None of the populations had insulin resistance, diabetes, or cardiovascular disease, and none of the islands’ inhabitants were fat. In came refined foods, and they became vulnerable to all of these diseases. As Stephan pointed out in a blog soon after his talk (here), these natives on high-carb diets had extraordinarily low fasting glucose and low postprandial glucose.

This reflects what has been known for almost a century: carbohydrate-feeding actually increases glucose tolerance, and oral glucose tolerance tests are misleading unless the subjects have been consuming a relatively constant intake of carbohydrate in the days preceding the test.

I thus find it very difficult to believe that humans must maintain their diets within a very narrow range of macronutrient ratios. More likely, the human body is extraordinarily flexible and can tolerate a wide range of carbohydrate and fat intakes.

That said, it may well be the case that in modern folks with damaged metabolism, low-carb is the way to go. Indeed, well controlled studies have clearly shown that low-carbohydrate diets are superior to low-fat diets by a multitude of criteria for people with various markers of the metabolic syndrome (references here, here, and here). Although I find it unlikely that this is a universal law, it is quite clear that this approach has helped not only the Jaminets but many others as well. I therefore consider the macronutrient advice in Perfect Health Diet to be an excellent starting point for many people, so long as they maintain the flexibility to adjust their macronutrient ratios in the ways that most benefit them.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:37 PM   #844
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Chris Masterjohn review of Perfect Health Diet, continued (see my post just below to start)

= = = = =

An Extensive But Not Comprehensive Coverage of Food Toxins
Perfect Health Diet offers an incredibly important discussion of food toxins that is likely to benefit a great number of people. The section is entitled “Eat Paleo, Not Toxic,” and as such the toxins considered are limited to those in what are generally considered Neolithic foods. They include grains, legumes, vegetable oils, and fructose, with a small section on sugar-cured meats, nightshades, foods cooked with high heat, and genetically modified foods.
While I think this section is likely to help a great many of people who have unidentified intolerances to these foods, I think it would best serve as a starting point from which many people will have to branch out, either including some of these foods or excluding others.

I believe a more complete discussion of food toxicity would include the methods that humans have developed to detoxify these foods, variation in susceptibility to food toxins, the role of nutrition in preventing food intolerances, and a number of other food toxins that occur in foods that might not be conventionally limited to the Neolithic era.

Chris Kresser, who recommends Perfect Health Diet to all his patients and readers, wrote a recent blog post, “Food Fascism and the 80/20 Rule”, in which he argued that Paleo should be used as a starting point, but not a rigid rule.

Indeed, while the research on non-celiac gluten sensitivity is in its infancy, so is the research showing that food preparation can be used to detoxify wheat and possibly make it safe even for celiacs. Treating isolated pieces of intestine from non-celiacs with crude gluten and known toxic peptide fragments elicits an inflammatory response (reference), but sufficient fermentation of wheat renders it non-toxic to celiacs when actually fed to them, at least over a short period of time (reference). While neither of these hypotheses — that gluten is toxic to everyone or that gluten is only toxic if improperly prepared — have a large amount of support, the evidence that fermentation mitigates the toxicity of gluten is higher quality and more advanced.

Many people have intolerances to salicylates, amines, amino acid neurotransmitters like glutamate, oxalates, and a host of other natural food chemicals. Emma Davies runs a good site on this topic.

Although sweet potatoes are considered a safe starch on the Perfect Health Diet, they are not very safe for me. When I discovered how yummy sweet potato fries are, I started eating several sweet potatoes per day. Within a few days, I was limping and my neck was stiff. By the end of the week, my limp was extreme. I looked online to see if I was eating anything high in oxalates, and sure enough, sweet potatoes are loaded with them. My symptoms dramatically improved after one day off sweet potatoes and were gone the second day.

By contrast, I went gluten-free, casein-free (GFCF) for a year and a half, and FAILSAFE (low-amine, low-salicylate) for several months, and both diets did more harm than good.

Matt Metzgar recently blogged about a study showing that beef intolerance was an important cause of asthma in one set of patients, being apparently much more important than wheat and other common suspects. In other words, modern food intolerances are rampant, and they can occur to wide variety of foods that are otherwise healthy.

I'll be commenting more on food intolerances in upcoming posts on The Daily Lipid. I do think that non-Paleo foods constitute an important subset of likely candidates for food intolerance, and I think Perfect Health Diet does a fantastic job bringing these candidates to people’s attention, but I think the food toxin issue is ultimately likely to be much more complex, dependent in part on genetics, nutritional status during development, present nutritional status, intestinal flora, and proper preparation of potentially toxic foods, and ultimately to a large degree modifiable with the correct therapeutic approaches.

Nevertheless, it is important to remove foods to which one is intolerant while one is trying to heal, even if the intolerance itself can be healed, and it may turn out that some intolerances can never be healed. I agree with Chris Kresser, then, that drawing people’s attentions to certain food intolerances is likely to offer most people a great deal of help, but has to be seen as a starting point. Perfect Health Diet will definitely provide a great starting point for many people.


Optimizing Micronutrition on The Perfect Health Diet
The Jaminets make the case that malnutrition is a pervasive problem even in the land of abundance. They focus their discussion on eight vitamins and minerals whose deficiencies they consider especially problematic: vitamin D, vitamin K2, selenium, iodine, magnesium, copper, and chromium.
Their discussion of vitamin D is well balanced. They recommend keeping 25(OH)D levels between 35 and 50 ng/mL for people of European descent and between 30 and 40 ng/mL for people of African descent. They include a discussion of the potential harms of going much higher than 50 ng/mL. I have expressed similar views in recent blog posts, including “Are Some People Pushing Their Vitamin D Levels Too High?, Is Vitamin D Safe? Still Depends on Vitamins A and K!, and Vitamin D — Problems With the Latitude Hypothesis.

The Jaminets provide a discussion of seven nutrients we may be tempted to supplement with but should avoid in most cases. These include vitamin A, calcium, zinc, niacin, vitamin E, folic acid, and fish oil.

I think they come down on vitamin A a little harder than this poor little vitamin deserves, and I’ve expressed my views on this most recently in “The Cod Liver Oil Debate.” Nevertheless, the Jaminets provide a reasoned discussion of the interactions between vitamins A and D and conclude with a tentative best guess that the ratio of these two vitamins should be about 3:1 in terms of IU. This conclusion seems within the range of plausibility. Most importantly, they recommend eating liver! Any discussion of vitamin A that results in a recommendation to eat liver is a good one.

Their discussions of the other nutrients are very well reasoned and very valuable. This is probably one of the best overviews of vitamin and mineral nutrition available as part of a larger diet book.

Combating Infectious Disease With The Perfect Health Diet
The Jaminets link infectious disease to atherosclerosis, stroke, Alzheimer’s, multiple sclerosis, arthritis, rosacea, high-risk behavior, traffic accidents, stomach ulcers, cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome, Parksinson’s, Lou Gherig’s disease, schizophrenia, mood disorders, cognitive impairment, and likely a whole host of other diseases for which the links to pathogens have not yet been found.
Rather than considering sanitation, hygiene, or vaccines to be the most important tools in the fight against infectious disease, the Jaminets provide a refreshing integration of the fields of immunology and nutrition. They discuss eleven dietary and lifestyle strategies one can enlist in this fight, including keeping blood glucose and insulin low, optimizing essential fatty acid intake, avoiding toxic foods, optimizing vitamin D levels, supplementing with iodine, restricting protein, regular short fasts, eating ketogenic on certain days, long ketogenic “fasting” periods, getting high-quality sleep, and relieving stress.

The Jaminets make an important point that much of the benefit of “fasting” comes from the production of ketones. Thus, both fat and fiber, which generates short-chain fats in the colon, can be allowed during a fast. They also discuss potential benefits of restricting protein intake, which can serve both to starve pathogens of needed amino acids and to jump start a process called autophagy, wherein the cells begin digesting damaged or unneeded proteins and which can initiate the killing of intracellular pathogens.

This section of the book contains some of the most up-to-date and cutting-edge ideas about the relationship between infectious diseases and health and the relationship between diet and lifestyle and the defense against pathogens.


Conclusion and Who Should Read The Perfect Health Diet
Overall, The Perfect Health Diet is an excellent introductory book for just about anyone to the world of paleo/traditional eating. It is well referenced, well reasoned, and should be convincing to both the lay reader and the professional. The content ranges from practical to technical, and some of the more technical sections may be intimidating to someone who is looking for someone to “just tell me what to eat,” but most readers with an interest in nutrition or another science should find the book very readable. This book is especially preferable to some of the more low-fat versions of ancestral nutrition, and would be an excellent book to read as an introduction to ancestral nutrition or to recommend to a friend or family member in need of such an introduction. The excellent discussion of the interconversion of different macronutrients that the Jaminets provide would certainly shake anyone out of their fat-phobia, once they realize that any excess carbs they eat are just turned to fat anyway.
I give Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet’s Perfect Health Diet two thumbs up.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:32 AM   #845
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Hmmm, seaweed and butter - different but I am willing to try! Do you use nori or some other type (there seem to be so many)!!. I am from the Canadian east coast and we used to eat something called dulce. It is simply seaweed dried on the rocks and then bagged. It is often full of tiny little sea 'thingies' but love it anyway!!

Thank you for sharing that book review. I have a lot of respect for C. Masterjohn and if he thinks it a worthwhile read then it must be!!
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:52 AM   #846
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Cathy - thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the review.

I use Korean kim - it is the same thing as nori. I have Sea's Gift brand from Amazon (the salted ones, not the sweet-the sweet has sugar). These are so tasty, I snack on them right out of the little snack packs. I don't know why people bother to make kale chips when seaweed is so good and already prepared!

I have another type in stock that is better for you I am sure - it roasted without any oil. I haven't tried it yet.

Anyway, with the butter, I just cut off a piece and place it on the seaweed, then roll (Sea's gift is already cut into small rectangles). I'm sure spreading would be too difficult. I only do this 1-3 times then eat the rest of the pack plain.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:11 AM   #847
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Wow, KT, very nice. Aren't those the same as Groves ratios. I followed him for years but grain was not included.

Dr K similarity as well except for when it comes right down to the food itself (rather than ratio) the differences are very clear.

I recently went to TJ's and bought a couple bars of Kerrygold. I was so disappointed when I tasted it!! The tangy cultered flavor was not there. I checked the ingreds and saw nothing about it. It used to be labeled.
I love cultured butter and when I was getting raw milk, made my own. I will go back to Organic Valley......so sad.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:25 AM   #848
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Hi, Ladies.

Jem, I, too, prefer Organic Valley pastured to Kerrygold. I have tried Kerrygold several times and it has always tasted "freezer burnt" to me. I have only once ever had stale Org. Valley pastured.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:58 PM   #849
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Weird, I finally found the green foil Organic Valley at PCC Natural Markets, and I tasted it side by side with Kerrygold. I don't see what you mean, they are very similar. I'll try the taste test again.

Perhaps I didn't get a good batch of Organic Valley.


adding....OH, I will have my husband and daughter do the taste test! Perhaps I am an unreliable taster.

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Old 07-14-2011, 01:43 PM   #850
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I was curious about the seaweed and butter 'roll' and gave it a try this afternoon and WOW!!! I love it. And I will have to add that I have yet to taste a butter that I didn't love. It is like a fine cheese to me but one that never disappoints!
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:58 PM   #851
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I haven't tried the Organic Valley cultured (not pastured) but may do so now that Kerrigold has disappointed me.
Our local butters here are good if I'm not getting cultured. Not organic but no growth hormone.
I don't get cultured if I'm making ghee since the cultured taste is lost.

Cathy, I agree. It's hard to beat the flavor of any butter unless it's stale.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:48 PM   #852
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WOW, my gosh, I am impressed. We did the taste test.

To be clear, I have:

Organic Valley Pasture Butter - Salted Cultured Butter (green wrapper)
KerryGold Pure Irish Butter (gold wrapper)


My husband SWEARS the Kerrygold butter tastes more sour, and he says it is quite pronounced, actually.

I did this taste test 3 times, and I can't tell the difference between them! After my husband claimed they were different, I did it AGAIN, and this time, all I can say is, I think, and it is subtle, that the Kerrygold is slightly saltier.

My daughter did the taste test (she is 16), and she swears she can't tell the difference. After dad said they were different, she tried again, and said she liked the Kerrygold a little better.

Weird! My daughter and I seem to be missing the taste buds for this sourness! Heh, apparently, we are not butter connisseurs.

Cathy - I'm glad you like the seaweed butter roll! I just love it!

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Old 07-16-2011, 02:02 PM   #853
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OK all - I said I would be looking into this thing I heard that LC can cause insulin resistance. Here is something VERY interesting. It led me to Dr. Keith Berkowitz (of Atkins).

I have something credible on this now. This has got to be the best information I have come across. This caught my attention.

Dr. Keith Berkowitz took over a number of Dr. Atkin's patients, some of whom had lost a lot of weight then ceased to lose anymore. He found the problem - reactive hypoglycemia.

Apparently, the more weight you've lost, the more plagued you can be with this problem.

Glucoenogensis from eating too much on LC is problematic! Eating too much protein - the body converts 50-60% of this to glucose, excess fat intake - the body converts 10% to glucose. OK, so you eat too large of a meal, your body makes a bunch of glucose out of the excess, you have a hypoglycemic reaction, and, boom, you are hungry again and need to eat.

He discusses the importance of eating smaller meals 5x per day and eating vegetables with meals (and maybe even an apple snack with almond butter, I think he said) to slow down digestion and prevent this reactive hypoglycemia.

I do show the signs he discusses in the second episode - my insulin is very low in the morning while my morning blood sugar is a bit high. So interesting!

Ah- on the side - he mentioned CoQ10 and magnesium prevents migranes. I had a bout of migrane this week!

Have a listen to these to shows, which are podcasts on itunes (I found them directly on Jimmy Moore's Livin La Vida Low Carb blog, you can google for them):

= = = =

Dr. Keith Berkowitz On The Forgotten Blood Sugar Disorder: Hypoglycemia (Episode 144)

Dr. Keith Berkowitz Answers More Of YOUR Questions On Hypoglycemia (Episode 165)

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Old 07-16-2011, 03:16 PM   #854
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Thanks for that info, KT!

How do you know your morning insulin levels? Is there a home test, or do you know this from lab work? I'm curious about my own levels.

I have been concerned about combating the "insulin resistance" issue for a while, as I've posted before. I'm actually starting a thread on it: why do YOU take Omega-3s? (fish oil, flax oil, etc)

There's so much swirling around in my head...as with the magnesium issue a couple pages ago...I feel I often read about "stuff" that is supposed to "mimic insulin" or "control blood sugar" (chromium, cinnamon, etc) but I don't really understand the mechanism--or possibly, it's not explained well.

With looking into IR a little more lately, I'm finding that some "stuff" is supposed to actually soften the cell membrane; that is, make it more permeable, and therefore more insulin sensitive.

Omega-3s, MSM, magnesium, and cinnamon do this, supposedly!
And what makes the cell membrane impermeable? Trans fats and Omega-6s!

Maybe this is common knowledge but I hadn't really put it all together until recently.

Anyway, I started drinking MSM water a couple days ago and I seem to be down a couple pounds (but not sure...my weight fluctuations are crazy, and I haven't really lost any weight with LC or Metformin). I feel like I'm experiencing a bit less water retention, too; my feet look really bony!
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:46 PM   #855
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KT- I think that is why like my trainer said if you are eating protein to jack the carbs a little with it, and eat the carbs earlier in the day? So confusing!! I am going to do as he said next week, keeping the fat below 40 grams will be tough but we will see how I do!!!
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Old 07-16-2011, 07:43 PM   #856
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Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Apparently, the more weight you've lost, the more plagued you can be with this problem.

Glucoenogensis from eating too much on LC is problematic! Eating too much protein - the body converts 50-60% of this to glucose, excess fat intake - the body converts 10% to glucose. OK, so you eat too large of a meal, your body makes a bunch of glucose out of the excess, you have a hypoglycemic reaction, and, boom, you are hungry again and need to eat.

He discusses the importance of eating smaller meals 5x per day and eating vegetables with meals (and maybe even an apple snack with almond butter, I think he said) to slow down digestion and prevent this reactive hypoglycemia.
An opposing view, though...

Dr Bernstein recommends waiting 5 hours between meals. Since it can take that long for ALL blood glucose effects of a meal to dissipate, eating every 2 or 3 hours will sort of just keep adding...and adding...and adding to your BG. Also, you will have insulin circulating almost constantly, and from what I understand, as long as insulin is in your bloodstream, your cells are getting the message to not use stored fat (insulin inhibits glucagon; it takes about an hour from when it is produced for insulin to degrade).

Maybe this (more frequent meals) isn't a concern for people who have already lost weight or who don't have any insulin resistance or diabetes; but it may not be the way to lose weight/reverse IR for everybody. I certainly haven't had to worry about hypoglycemia yet!

My bold on the big meals...is Dr Berkowitz operating on the notion that all LCers overeat? hmmm...

Bejewelme...
For a while I was trying to open a juice bar inside of a gym, and I was educating myself about the effects of carbs in the drinks I offered. The "old" school of thought was that weightlifters/athletes should have JUST protein, no fat or carbs; but the "new" school is to have carbs within a certain amount of time after working out (maybe 30 min?).

This is because insulin drives nutrients into your cells. So weightlifters are actually looking for an insulin spike, because it helps recover after a workout & keep the body from "cannibalizing" muscle. Post Workout Meal Nutrition - What To Eat After A Workout

Having carbs also replaces the glycogen (stored in liver & muscles) used during your workout. But this seems like it would slow down fat-burning: use your glycogen, replace it, use it, replace it...just takes longer to get around to those fat stores! How to Maximize Your Fat Burning Potential with Nutrition Information

I Googled "insulin spike post workout" and "burning glycogen vs fat".

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Old 07-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #857
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Jenny- thanks for these links, I went to a trainer and he knows I want to lose weight he wants me to eat essentially 1800-200 calories, 220 protein/150 carbs/40 fat I am so torn, like when to eat before and after, I know I have to have some carbs before the workouts and running or I cant move, I found that out! I am boiling steel cut oats for breakfast then in 30 minutes I am going to run, but during the week I go to the gym at 4:15 so I am back to what to eat before then, ughgh it is mind numbing, LOL I am off to read your links, and I think I am going to commit to his plan for a week and see what happens, I have to remember I am working out probably 10 plus hours per week, so I do need some fuel it just scares me but when I did Dukan, I lost weght and I was eating close to 100 grams of carbs and low fat, I think the fat is the key if I am going to eat carbs I have to eat less fat and the timing of it all before and after!!!
Sorry for the ramble it is making me nuts though,LOL
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Old 07-16-2011, 09:32 PM   #858
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Yeah it all makes me nuts, too!!!
Sometimes I wish I could just eat some perfectly balanced, totally flavorless food out of tubes (like Gogurt or astronaut food tubes) and not have to think about calories or cravings or snacks or cheats!!!

Man, 10 hours of exercise a week! I'm so impressed!!!

I am not sure those articles will clear anything up for you (or anybody); they're more like examples of what gym rats think they should eat

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Old 07-16-2011, 10:14 PM   #859
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Oh, I know my insulin level is low because I had my doc take a fasting insulin measurement the last time he checked my A1c. My A1c was 5.6, my fasting insulin was 2!

I have followed Bernstein and have his book. I do think he knows what he is talking about for diabetes management. When it comes to his patients that can't lose weight, he suggests hoodia. I tried hoodia; it didn't work for me at all. He also discusses prescribing low dose naltroxone, which has to be compounded, a drug used to help with drug/alcohol addiction. I'm not interested in trying it; I don't think food addiction is my issue since I have lost a lot of weight but now I am stuck, and I don't eat much in the way of anything that could be considered addictive anyway. I think he discussed some other solutions; they don't come to mind right now.

Anyway, my doc claims I have no signs of diabetes on blood tests. He didn't pick up on low fasting insulin as an issue. I find it interesting that hypoglycemia can even occur on a low carbohydrate diet! Especially in someone that has dropped a lot of weight on the diet. Since I fit into the parameters Berkowitz is talking about, and he has actually SEEN patients that have lost a lot of weight on a low carb diet then stalled out (a rare bird indeed - the folks hanging out here on the board are not the common dieter), I am interested.
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:32 PM   #860
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Do you think you're going to try this?
I hope it works for you, if you do!
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:35 PM   #861
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Amber,

I don't know about what ratios to follow with hard, intense exercise. I have never looked into it because I know I could never keep it up. You already know I am worried you are running training for 5K on a low carb diet in the heat.

My feeling is you should be eating more carbohydrates because low carb high protein is dehydrating and these biggest loser workouts you are doing would be draining your glycogen stores.
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:39 PM   #862
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Oh, definitely, I am going to eat 5x per day. It is great to get some advise from a former Atkins doc that has seen this!
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Old 07-17-2011, 07:21 AM   #863
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Well I did my run this morning it was freaking hot, but my mile was 13:10 that was the fastest so far, LOL And I managed to get past 25 minutes, I did 1.75 in 27.39. My problem today was there were a lot of girls at the track, all little girls gliding by, I thought OK they are not running that fast either then they would blow by me, so I think I was running faster, I felt like a water buffalo, geez, I was a sweaty heaving mess, these girls dont even sweat, I like when I am alone, I am going to week 6 of couch to 5 K I think maybe the run/walk thing helps build you up better, i was really struggling and wanted to quit, I think I am destined to run 1.5 miles and that is it, LOL Tried the steel oats with protein powder,about 30 minutes prior and I drank about 40 ounces of water that was good at least my legs were moving!!!!!

Yes KT I am upping the carbs he suggest, 220 protein, 150 carbs, 40 fat, so low fat higher carbs is the key, and close to 2000 calories, and I already drink over a gallon of water, I am not speedy but I was proud this was the longest run yet!!! I am almost 2/3 there, LOL I have til Sept!!!
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:03 PM   #864
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Amber - oh my gosh, you kill me! I wish I could do all that.

Well...I think eat eggs and real animal foods (more fat less protein), but of course you know who you are talking to here.

Just keep in mind that the amino acids in the whey are in milk (milk grows the baby calves! that is the miracle), and eggs are complete (forming a chick! that is the miracle).

If you really want to eat a lot of low fat protein, I think work in yogurt rather than rely too much on whey in that yogurt doesn't go through all that processing and has live cultures. If you get the Dannon instead of greek, I think that is better too because the greek style has the whey strained out of it and you need the carbs anyway.

Remember...yogurt eaters lose more weight, and the yogurt cultures probably work synergistically with the healthy carbs to keep the cultures alive in your system.
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:05 PM   #865
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I've noticed the bloggers I read all seem to read each other's work and post more about it. Emily Deans posted a comment somewhere about this author, David Kessler (Stephan Guyenet has revived this theory of overeating, which is openly stating is not a new theory), so I bought his book "The End of Overeating."

I think the most important thing in this is for me is to think about artificial sweeteners as well as salt. There is a lot of debate going on about salt these days, that perhaps it is not so bad for you after all, but it does stimulate me to eat more, I have noticed this.

Anyway, I have not read the book yet, but I found a youtube video, in case you are interested:


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Old 07-17-2011, 06:12 PM   #866
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Terriffic video.

I believe his point about overriding the neural circuitry is exactly what worked for me.
I now think of some of my former sugar laden favorite foods as the enemy.

Luckily, I alwas liked eggs, cheese and meats, so it has turned into an elimination diet.
I avoid carbs, limit protein and eat as much fat or calories as I want.

I guess you could say what many on this site have said. It's not a diet, it's a life change.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:43 AM   #867
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Jenny, bodybuilders have used this insulin spike method to repair muscle for quite a while. That is the purpose of maltodextrin in protein powders, etc.

I love Dr Bernstein's method and have his book. BUT eating more frequently in smaller amts is what made my BG readings more stable and mostly normal.
I do sometimes need to adjust to keep from being hungry too soon.
I was just reading a post from someone who's been stalled for a couple years and tried just about every LC tweak/plan.
She recently started smaller more frequently meals and started dropping weight. She is diabetic.

I do think LC'ers overeat, at least initially....because we can, maybe. I hear the frustration in those who don't lose but many would not even consider LC if it was restricted.
Of course, many of us discover that we can't eat all we want......Then what? Tweak, I guess.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:38 AM   #868
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Amazing how differently each of our bodies responds to food intake. Some find intermittent fasting or 1 meal a day to be the solution for their weight/health concerns. Others do well on frequent small meals. Don't know that there is a definitive answer out there for us all.

Dr Bernstein recommends the 5 hours between meals for insulin dependent diabetics. He does say that those who do not use insulin may use frequent smaller meals if they find their bg is more stable that way. For me each food intake no matter how small results in elevated bg so I have been doing 2 meals a day. My work environment really doesn't permit lunch so that has been working for me.

Interesting video on the neural circuits KeyTones. Thanks again.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:57 AM   #869
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Sorry but I find myself annoyed by the insistence of many that being overweight = overeating. What is the answer if one is not overeating and is fat.....? This guy got some stuff right but 'retraining the brain' is not going to happen without some serious carb restriction and he lumps that all in with sugar, salt and fat. Well from my understanding the only addictive food in that group is sugar.

Eating many small meals a day may work for some but I don't understand how. If the body is continually being given food fuel, how can stored fuel be used? Doesn't it stand to reason that we need a window when food fuel has been dealt with and the stored fuel gets an opportunity to be used? It takes approx. 4 hours for food to be dealt with so that seems to leave little time apart from sleep....?
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:26 PM   #870
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Cathy-
And that is why there are 50,000 books about dieting, it is so darn hard to chose what works for you. I agree even though I was overweight I hated being looked at like I was a glutton, when in fact I ate less calories than my normal weight counterparts, I had done such a royal job messing with my metabolism, the IR etc. I remember when I moved in with my cousin in CA after college she said I thought you ate a lot, you dont eat hardly at all, I said no kidding!!!!
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