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Old 07-01-2011, 11:19 AM   #781
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clackley,
I think that's a great supplement list, and I take most of them...lipoic acid especially, CoQ10 when I can afford it. I have a magnesium powder but I don't like the flavor very much, so I don't drink it as often as I should. I keep forgetting to try the Milk of Magnesia recipe Auntie Em shared :blush:

Potassium supplements have such a tiny amount in them (3% of RDA) that I think it's pointless/annoying to take them. Tomatoes are a surprisingly good source of potassium.

1oz tomato: 5 calories, 66mg potassium
1oz banana: 25 calories, 100mg potassium

I avoid 5HTP because I have bi-polar disorder and I DON'T want any extra seratonin; it can cause manic episodes.

I am a little disappointed that he mentioned he would explain how to use coconut oil to remove fat from the liver, but then didn't get to it--he did write that particular entry while traveling halfway around the world, though! I hope he gets back to that at some point.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:26 PM   #782
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Interesting on Eades' article. It makes me realize I have cut some of the food sources I thought I had going for what I need.

I'll have to look at what brands of yogurt I'm buying--I thought I had potassium there, but what I have in the fridge doesn't reflect this! I am not eating avocados right now and probably won't for a while since it is time for me to make another serious run at weight loss. Anyway, I use potassium salt substitute on everything (my husband can't have much sodium or his diuretics don't work).

I highly recommend eating seaweed if you like it for the minerals. I think I am covered for ALA there.

I take the magnesium, multi, d3, krill oil (I can't believe he didn't list it after writing at least 3 articles about krill oil!)...I had a mag/calcium/zinc pill but stopped after reading that heart disease goes up with calcium supplements and rely on oysters 1x per week for zinc.

I was taking iodine, I still do pop one sometimes if I haven't been eating my seaweed.

I have other supplements I take intermittently like this....my joke is I notice that I like to buy supplements...apparently, I think my cabinets need supplements, LOL
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:41 PM   #783
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PirateJenny - was that you that said metformin causes b12 deficiency? I am having my husband take b complex now for this, he has fatigue!
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #784
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KT--no, it wasn't me. I just started Metformin myself about a month ago, but I have read about the B12 deficiency, as well as folate deficiency and increased homocysteine concentration (all stuff in your post on the last page! #775):

Chronic effects of metformin on vitamin B12

ETA:
Interesting: this article says "calcium supplementation has been shown to reverse metformin-induced B12 deficiency."
Metformin causes malabsorption of B12, so just taking more B12 might not be effective
(kinda like the insulin resistance and leptin resistance problems, perhaps?).

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Old 07-02-2011, 02:12 PM   #785
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LOL, I can't remember where I read anything anymore...

Thanks for the link to the metformin article!

Interesting, I'll have to read more about this concerning calcium. I have read taking b12 supplements is ineffective for vegans as well. I wish I could get him to eat oysters.

I can just see his face when I ask him to start taking the freezed-dried liver pills! There is b12 there, this is a good reason to take them!
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:09 PM   #786
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Hey, back when we were talking about magnesium and Epsom salts, was insulin sensitivity discussed as one of the benefits?

There are so many reasons to take magnesium that I seem to have forgotten one of the important ones! I came across a mention of it last night when I REALLY needed to go to sleep, and looked into it a little more today:

Epsom Salt Council - Health - Health Benefits
Benefits of Epsom Salts

One thing that has been concerning me for a while its that I read that insulin, aside from storing fat, "drives" other (all?) nutrients into your cells. So if you're insulin resistant, you may not be absorbing nutrients from food & supplements. Which would just exacerbate the obesity problem, since it seems (to some degree anyway) that cravings and hunger/overeating*, as well as the body's reluctance to use its fat stores for fuel, may be caused by poor nutrition on the cellular level.

*I mean the kind when you have eaten enough calories but are lacking in micronutrients.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:52 PM   #787
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Yes! I do remember it helps with insulin resistance. I posted it in the diabetes forum as well.

It is so hard to absorb all the information, there is so much to learn.

And yes!!! You totally get my concern about nutrition.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:26 PM   #788
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I remember too! I think you are dead on right. I only hope that it can be reversed eventually.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:51 PM   #789
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It would explain a lot...for YEARS I have been feeling like my body ignores or neutralizes anything good I put into it! I've worked at a few health food stores and have tried all sorts of supplements for energy...royal jelly, B-vitamins, blue-green algae; I honestly didn't feel much different when I was eating organic food & veggies picked half an hour earlier, or white bread & Cheetos.

Until I started LC, food just made me tired--even when I was young! I remember talking about it with a college friend, "Shouldn't food give us energy? Why do we feel like taking a nap?" But we were vegetarian; I didn't get much protein and I was "scared" of fat. I used to have granola and fruit juice in the morning with my boyfriend, and pass out for a couple of hours after he went to work. Now I know it was the carbs...heck, I even used it sometimes, when my insomnia was really bad; I would get up, have some bread or cereal, and finally be able to fall asleep!

I, too, hope we can reverse IR!!!
Omega -3 is supposed to help greatly in forming healthy, permeable cell membranes.
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:59 AM   #790
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I do think that all the exercise is somewhat helping to reverse the IR that I have, I was so freaking out eating 100 carbs man before I would have packed in pounds overnight, but now if I eat them when I am suppose to, and eat good carbs for fuel I managed to lose 3 pounds this week. The only thing that really made me exercise was that my doctor said exercise and do strength training to help reverse IR, so that is what finally pushed me to do it. I know she wants me to stop taking the metformin too, but I keep resisting at least until I get to my goal, and if I am still exercising and the weight starts to creep back on in maintenance I am going to push to stay on it.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:18 AM   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
And yes!!! You totally get my concern about nutrition.
I don't know if I "get" you so much as I've learned a lot from you!!!
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #792
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An update on taking Biotin and Silica for hair thinning.

Its been 2 weeks since I started taking Biotin and Silica, so far I haven't noticed any new growth, but when I get out of the tub the last few days instead of there being 10-15 hairs in it there are only 2-3 for the last couple of days. So it looks like it is helping.
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:36 PM   #793
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Yay, goose1!!!
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:12 AM   #794
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Goose 1, that is fantastic!!
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:09 AM   #795
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I'm really happy about it too. I've always had thick hair and since starting on Cytomel it's been getting thinner and thinner. Again this morning there were only 2 left in the tub. Thanks to everyone that made the silica and biotin suggestions.
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:47 AM   #796
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Wow, that is really good news!
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:43 PM   #797
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Goose, I wish you continued success with the supplements.

On exercise and increased insulin sensitivity: I have found that taking those long walks before breakfast really does help. I also do Callanetics, yoga for old folks and a few others things. But, the long walks seem to get something going in my metabolism that is unique to the walks. I don't walk quickly, just 40-60 minutes. When I walk a shorter amount of time, or don't walk, I don't feel as well, and find it much more challenging to not gain weight.

Dr. Emily Deans has an interesting post up:

Evolutionary Psychiatry: Diet-Induced Obesity and Brain Changes

Hope you all are doing well.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:41 PM   #798
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Auntie Em,

I love Dr. Emily Dean's blog. I enjoyed the podcast as well (on the Healthy Skeptic website featuring Dr. Emily Dean).
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:11 AM   #799
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Auntie Em, I have always loved walking. It is a great stress reliever and seems to loosen the body, as well.

Last year bearslayer posted a rabbit starvation challenge on the dirtycarnvore forum.
If you have never encountered him, he hunts all his food (except for hwc and some spices).
Basically he wanted to see if he'd get sick from meat w/o fat. It did not happen and some of those myths we believe so strongly in were busted.
There were several carnivores who responded that they're health had improved w lowering fat.

Bearslayer also stated that his bowels were regular during the challenge but had stopped when he went back to 'normal' carnivory.
There was some speculation on why Stef got ill on lf protein, as well (bad meat, sudden change in diet, etc).

Interesting......

So, here it is, summer. Hot!!
I made some turkey stock yesterday and decided to try cold stock w gelatin. I intended to make a sort of head cheese but didn't get around to adding the meat.
I added 1 T gelatine to 2 qt stock along w a little salt and some red pepper flakes.
It made this firm but delicate gel which was delic cold. I added some of the turkey meat on the side.
It will make a good snack, appetizer or side.
Really worthwhile if you are bothering w stock in the summer.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:17 PM   #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem51 View Post
Last year bearslayer posted a rabbit starvation challenge on the dirtycarnvore forum.
If you have never encountered him, he hunts all his food (except for hwc and some spices).
Basically he wanted to see if he'd get sick from meat w/o fat. It did not happen and some of those myths we believe so strongly in were busted.
There were several carnivores who responded that they're health had improved w lowering fat.

Bearslayer also stated that his bowels were regular during the challenge but had stopped when he went back to 'normal' carnivory.
There was some speculation on why Stef got ill on lf protein, as well (bad meat, sudden change in diet, etc).

Interesting......

Very interesting, I always believed it to be true, that you needed a lot of fat with your meat.

I think fat has become a problem with me. I know when I first started low carb a few years ago I didn't eat this much fat. I started out on the Somersizing plan so it was still pretty high carb, but not super high fat. Though after coming from a no fat diet it seemed pretty high to me. I had success with this plan until I started adding in Atkins bars. Totally stalled me
and of course I thought it was the plan not the bars. In the last couple of years I've been adding in a lot of meals that have cheese or heavy cream in them. It used to be no more than once a week, but now it seems 3 or more meals.

I've been completly stuck in my weight loss, though I have to admitt I've had a terrible time staying completly low carb since my vacation. Even though I stay really high fat I still get a lot of cravings lately, and I don't feel satisfied. Maybe I need to up the carbs a bit and lower the fat. When I did Somersize my meals always satisfied me. They always had veggies and a salad with a fruit mid morning. I've been stuck in this VLC way of thinking for the last few years and it hasn't been working for me.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:08 PM   #801
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Jem51-I have heard something about rabbit starvation being a myth because reality is you would eat all the organs (including the brain and eyes) and this makes it work. I can't remember where I read it. Is that what happened here? I realize rabbit brains and eyes are awfully small, LOL...

On another topic...this increasing my egg intake is doing something! Seriously! Maybe it is too soon to say, but I have increased it to a minimum of 8 eggs and my appetite is dropping off. I hope I don't jinx myself--I can't wait to see if this works. I had 4 eggs for breakfast and a small orange. It is 2:00 and I don't feel like eating at all.

I felt the same way last night before dinner!

No symptoms from eating small amounts of fruit (smaller than a tennis ball). All is quiet!

I have the Carlson's buffalo liver pills. I'm going to take one tonight.

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Old 07-06-2011, 05:21 PM   #802
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KT- here is a topic for you, I figure one of you smart girls might know? So the one salesman got ice cream for us today, I got a fat free fruit shake thing, so Tony says drink a protein shake maybe that will offset the extra carbs from fruit? I was like hummmm? Maybe there is something to that? I should not have drank it, but it was 94 degrees and I thought it was better than a snickers blizzard, LOL So then I did go to the gym, so I counted it as my pre workout carb snack, LOL
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:10 PM   #803
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I don't think the protein will offset the carbs exactly (as in cancel them out? is that what he meant?) but supposedly having protein and/or fat with carbs will make you digest them more slowly, so they raise your blood sugar more slowly...

I just skimmed the rabbit starvation thread a little, but historically/by definition RS affects people who are experiencing physical hardship--constant exertion along with extremely cold or dry weather. While symptoms may start to set in after a week, the true starvation cycle (insatiable hunger) takes longer. It may be difficult to replicate the experience without trekking to the North Pole or clearing some land and building a log cabin with nothing but an axe!

Bearslayer did comment that he experienced a lot more hunger. Went from eating twice a day to four times.
But, he lost 7lb in 8 days, and it all seemed to be subcutaneous fat.

The people on that thread look EXTREMELY healthy. Bodybuilders & very active, muscular people. When they need to drop fat,
they only have to follow such a lean/high protein diet for a week or two.

For someone who needs to drop a significant amount of fat (like me!!!), and/or who doesn't start out muscular & strong, it would be interesting to find out if these ratios are HEALTHY in the long term--not just effective in terms of weight loss.

Because, while I know that weight loss improves many aspects of health,
I am not convinced it's the answer to everything.
Something was "off" with my health/metabolism to start this weight gain...
Hopefully the right WOE will correct that, then weight will come off & stay off.

I've considered, since I started LC, that I could speed my weight loss along if I cut fat...but I am concerned with feeling good. I have bipolar disorder that is well under control with medication, but am afraid that low fat would make me feel irritable and depressed again.

And I've been reading about how Omega -3s rebuild cell membranes, which are less insulin-resistant than those built with Omega -6s...

ETA: ugh i am sure i have said things like this before; in fact it's sort of what this whole thread is about, right?! fat=healing!
sorry if being redundant!

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Old 07-06-2011, 09:10 PM   #804
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Also, I wonder: how does high protein/low fat affect blood sugar?
Did anyone notice if any of the "rabbit starvation" peeps
--or even weightlifters getting ripped for competition--
have diabetes or check their blood sugar?

With the "too much protein turns to glucose" concern, if JUST protein results in high blood sugar, perhaps that is the reason (or one of the reasons) for the increased hunger?
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:56 PM   #805
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has anyone heard of taking MSM to increase cell membrane flexibility?
I just came across this tonight...I do take MSM for my hair, but didn't realize
it could be used for insulin sensitivity!

How To Make MSM Water - Alternative Cancer Treatments

Also, I'm looking into the "Budwig protocol"...eating 4T of flax oil a day!
same objective...rebuilding cell membrane...
http://www.cancertutor.com/Diabetes/...es_Type_II.htm

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Old 07-06-2011, 11:39 PM   #806
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I'm clueless on what to do about downing some sugar...exercise sounds like a good antidote. I have dropped the protein shakes completely. I have determined, with certainty, that whey is unsatisfying. Which is too bad, I have a lot of it! I am always doing that...buying something then abandoning eating it.

I am also clueless on low fat/high protein regimens (and have not heard of MSM). I've heard Lyle McDonald has a good book on a ketogenic diet for the bodybuilder types. I have the book--not that I've read it! I am up to my eyeballs in books I haven't read.

OK, so it is 10:30, and I am still not hungry! I had 8 eggs today, 1 small apple, some half-half in coffee, and 2 glasses of unsweetened almond milk. I think I had 7 or 8 classes of water as well. Maybe the seaweed counts - I ate a bunch of it last night after midnight. It is packed with minerals.

I'm not proud of the almond milk since it is processed, but you know, it has a lot of minerals and vitamin e (it is fortified, there aren't enough almonds in there at 40 calories a cup to do all this).

I've just come to realize that dairy is causing me problems with chapped lips due to vitamin A deficiency. I put this together between reading Danny Roddy's facebook posts and his recent blog posts! I have been plagued with chapped lips that nearly resolved and came back with a vengance when I added yogurt to my diet.

Hmph, anyway, that was only about 1,000 calories. I don't even feel like having a potato! I even went to the grocery store tonight and looked at all the stuff. I felt nothing. I am blown away by this!!!

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Old 07-07-2011, 04:45 AM   #807
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KT- you are the queen of eggs! I cant believe you dont like whey? See I think those shakes I drink in the morning really fill me up, there is a brand at the Vitamin SHoppe, Oh Yeah Protein, 32 grams of protein, 3 or 4 carbs, 8 grams of fat, the vanilla and strawberry are very good, that is what I drink. No funny after taste. You inspired me to eat another hardboiled egg! And I was up 2 pounds, so exercising off all that shake didnt work, although I killed myself trying those bear crawl all night, so I am sure I am in muscle repair cause my whole darn body hurts and I still cant do them!

Jenny- I did Dukan, low fat, low carb, high protein, I felt surprisingly fine doing it in fact I am thinking about doing it like 2 days a week cause I really lost on it I got 6.5 pounds off in 2 weeks, and then went back to Atkins, and am losing again, so maybe give it a try? If you dont feel good just stop! I like having the yogurt and skim milk, although I was really sick of it and ready for some bacon after 2 weeks of it!
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:48 AM   #808
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KT, just put your whey in the fridge or freezer and it won't get stale. Then you'll have it for emergencies or road trips and such.

I think the egg thing is similar to what the zc/vvlc 'ers feel. Very satiating w/o the carb/vegie causing blood sugar increases or intestinal rumbling. So you stay more even.

I would like to have soft boiled eggs w butter but they are such a pain to open. The flavor is awesome, though, (poached lose some flavor in the water).
I may try again this a m.

I am eating mostly meat right now and not hungry. Of course, I have broth as well. I bought 2 doz eggs from a small farmette nearby. They are yummm, but I can't do HBE (gag reflex) and would like to consume yolks more in raw form and eggnog is not filling enough...so I'm thinking......

Jenny, many on dirty carnivore have lost weight. I believe Satya (I think she started it) has transformed.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:34 AM   #809
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Just checking in. Doing a little better GI wise with the lower fat levels but I still think the metformin is partly responsible for this rotten reflux.
Key tones - I'm eating lots more eggs and yogurt and not much meat and feeling very satiated. Something great about those eggs! I would love to master a soft boiled egg but so far just can't get the timing right - either runny or hardboiled - darn how hard can it be?
Ordered some biotin and silica to see if I can strengthen my hair - it's very Thin and breaking as well. Old age is the pits.
Continuing to love this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing.
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Miles walked in 2014 - 1087

Last edited by shunsweets; 07-07-2011 at 09:35 AM..
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:35 AM   #810
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
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Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Jem51 - I do have to think about the vlc thing...I am going have 2 apples today and see if anything changes.

Amber - I have tried the whey 3 times now. It makes me feel satisfied at first but as days go by my hunger increases. Three trials and I'm out. I think I'm sensitive to dairy is all. This dropping the yogurt has made me feel great. I will see how I feel in 6 weeks; I have learned to be leary of the initial "high" from a dietary change. Long term is what counts.

Oh, I am sure low fat/low carb would make one drop weight like nothing else...I mean, where else is there to go? I start feeling pretty desperate if I go too low on the fat...I've tried--and I'm not saying I would never do it. If I do it would have to be short stints for weight loss. I am pretty whimpy that way. I think fat is necessary to good health.

Jem51- oh,on freezing whey - thank you, I will do that! I opened an old whey container once and it smelled like feet! It definitely can go bad.
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