Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Other Plans
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2011, 08:17 AM   #751
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
jem51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: south central OR
Posts: 3,645
Gallery: jem51
Stats: oh so happy at 120
WOE: Mine, all mine
Start Date: controlled carb '97-98
KT, I just wanted to comment on your dry eyes post but don't want to respond there.

I started having dry eyes as a vegetarian and it continued the whole time and I'd have this little white stuff in the outside corner.
It left immediately when I started LC.
BUT I have only had brief runs at ZC....no longer than 30 days. Meaning I eat mucous forming foods and have also only been dairy free for breif periods.

I would be interested in hearing the results of others.
Have your sx improved w Dr K?
jem51 is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 06-26-2011, 10:48 AM   #752
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Jem51,

Vegan diet- the worst I ever felt on a diet on many levels. Fear for your health!

Dry eyes - I just wanted to post what I had read about dry eyes on zero carb. How much carb intake for optimal health is a good Q and is individual I suppose.

Libedo Q - eh, I don't like to talk that personally on the forum. I know you read a lot of the same blogs I do, so I'm sure you've read up on it.
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 12:41 PM   #753
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
piratejenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,884
Gallery: piratejenny
Stats: 293/<273/<160 (5'7")
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: restart 6/12/14 @ 289.4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Libido Q - eh, I don't like to talk that personally on the forum. I know you read a lot of the same blogs I do, so I'm sure you've read up on it.
Lol I think jem meant "symptoms" not sex!
rx--prescription
dx--diagnosis
sx--symptoms
piratejenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 01:37 PM   #754
Major LCF Poster!
 
shunsweets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,670
Gallery: shunsweets
Stats: maintenance
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: May 2003
shunsweets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 03:15 PM   #755
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Oh, too funny....well you see where my mind goes!!!:blush:
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 04:20 PM   #756
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
Darn I missed the sex talk!!!!!

LOL
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 07:52 PM   #757
Senior LCF Member
 
CalRon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 485
Gallery: CalRon
Stats: 240/173/182 6'2"
WOE: VLC
Start Date: 2/14/10
Gee!, I just searched on google for sex talk and got directed to this site.

J/K of course.

Although few of us follow the dictates of Dr. K, many of us have gained a lot of knowledge. I've taken the lower protein to heart and it has helped.

Key Tones, I don't care what you call your site, I want to be part of it.
CalRon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 08:04 AM   #758
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
jem51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: south central OR
Posts: 3,645
Gallery: jem51
Stats: oh so happy at 120
WOE: Mine, all mine
Start Date: controlled carb '97-98
It's funny that the sex talk started after my post because I blame everything on no sex, bad sex, not enough....
You have a problem? I have the answer.

Occasionally I watch Dr Phil and there's a couple w some real anger going on and no one can figure out why. Of course, Dr Phil is talking about therapy and meds and I'm thinking, 'why aren't they talking about sex?'

So, back to the food.
Summer is finally here and suddenly my diet has become easy. Some of my dissatisfaction must come from our horrible rainy winters when I find myself trying out other LC plans and nothing really fills the bill. It's just some winter blues.
Then the weather changes and I find myself being totally satisfied w my plan.

I'm pretty much having smoothies daily in the morning.
Yesterday I made a greek salad to carry for lunch. The days before that, I picked up a baked chicken thigh at a local grocery.
Dinner is usually something w burger. Usually crumbled w salsa and an avo. Or crumbled plain (s & P), or maybe a cabbage stir fry....

I'm planning to make some Italian meat balls (got some good Ital sausage), which will go through my crazy work weekend.
Maybe bake up some chicken while the ovens on.

Fat intake is steady and holding well w/o problem. No counting, just as desired.

Winter fat layer is leaving.
jem51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 08:52 AM   #759
Major LCF Poster!
 
shunsweets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,670
Gallery: shunsweets
Stats: maintenance
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: May 2003
Jem your "answer" works for me too. In fact I think my calmer demeanor and greater satisfaction in the warmer months may come from wearing fewer clothes and having more sex. Why should sunshine get all the credit! Ah how our thread has wandered!

Have cut out meat the last couple of days and increased eggs and having much less heartburn. Hmmm - maybe I'm having trouble digesting meat? May be closer to DrK than I thought if eggs become my primary protein. May add in more full fat yogurt if I'm giving up meat for a while.
__________________
Sept goal 100 miles, 43 done
Miles walked in 2014 - 872
shunsweets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 08:56 PM   #760
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
jem51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: south central OR
Posts: 3,645
Gallery: jem51
Stats: oh so happy at 120
WOE: Mine, all mine
Start Date: controlled carb '97-98
shunsweets, yogurt is my go to cure (after sex, of course).
When my digestion is giving me trouble, I eat mostly yogurt then slowly add back.
jem51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 10:50 PM   #761
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
I had the same problem here today. I ate a hamburger last night, and woke up this morning with stomach pain.

Greek yogurt for dinner went down very well!

CalRon - you are such a sweetheart. I hope to keep the thread going a long time.

Heh, we may attract more visitors with the sexual healing talk...with google on it and all...
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 10:27 AM   #762
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
YES YOU GOT MY ATTENTION!!! SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My big problem is I had the hormones of a 16 year old boy finding his Dad's Playboy stash until I started strict low carb, now its like I have no interest, sort of frustrating for my partner, LOL I am afraid he is not going to marry me, it is such a dramatic change, so I determined that sugar makes me horny, fat doesn' LOL The doctor said maybe I am premenapausal but at 42? I started when I was 9, so maybe that is why, I am blaming the diet so if I continue eating low carb I guess I will never want to have sex again, LOL Then they said all this gym would boost your sex drive, it just makes me tired, LOL
__________________
http://tickers.tickerfactory.com/ezt/t/wB47MwP/weight.png
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:43 PM   #763
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
I do wonder, Amber, if it is really low carb or if it is just restricting calories (and working out so hard) that causes it? You've lost a lot of weight in a short time! Isn't it over 130 pounds off in 9 months?

I have read this libedo issue on zero carb, but it is just anecdotal, as is just about everything...where are the studies! Ugh!

Other issues...

GI Cancer

I have read some critisims of the Kwasniewski Optimal Diet (the gastrointestinal cancer critisim, Jem51 pointed out before), as put out by Jaminet (Perfect Health Diet) --he sourced Peter at Hyperlipid on that. I am not clear on the cause - it seems they eat a lot of processed meat and GI cancer is high in Poland anyway...

Yet when I look at Jaminet's recommendation for a diabetic, it is not that different than what I am already doing in terms of carbs anyway! Yep, it has to be low carb for me. I am working on adding more fiber (meaning plant matter, not saw dust!) to the diet, though, now that I have been thinking about the GI cancer issue.

OK, that was a side issue...I just felt like talking about it.

Another issue...Hypothyroidism

I think going ultra low on carbs knocks out the appetite and allows one to under-eat comfortably. I don't know that I believe that the people that start paleo or low carb that suddenly come down with thyroid issues actually have typical hashimotos. Maybe it is just under-eating that causes the metabolism to slow down. I came across this idea on Matt Stone's blog--and I notice when I eat more my body temperature comes up.

I am not losing any weight doing that. I don't have any answers. I think I may have to cut calories in short bursts and then go back to eating. I don't know.

....so, back to libedo...I do wonder if slowing of the metabolism causes this issue when restricting calories. Maybe it is stress/cortisol from going through the weight loss.

Would any diet cause this?

Any ideas?

Sorry Amber! You are an interesting case study...
__________________
I'm hanging out here:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ot...el-method.html
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 05:02 PM   #764
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
KT_ I lost 70 pounds in 2005, and gained some back in the 5 years I did nothing, LOL I would start and stop, in Sept when I started I was 305 so about 90 pounds in 9 months this time.

Well I will say this, when I was just cruising along doing atkins I was eating like 1000-1200 calories and I was not hungry now I am trying to eat more cause of all the exercise and I am starving even though I went back to pretty much low carb with a little greek yogurt and a slice of whole grain bread, pre workout, I sent all my food logs and exercise logs to this guy that does the fitness competitions and has the obstacle training he is suppose to review and make recommendations on 7/12 when I go, I am real curious to see what he says!!! I will say I bought my wedding gown that doesnt close about 7 weeks ago, I am going to try it, my trainer is kicking my butt!!!! I have to think I lost enough inches to fit in it, or darn close, the exercise is the key, I really want to get under 200 but man it is slow but the changes in my body is huge, people keep saying I lost so much I really have not, like only 17 pounds since 4/1 when I had surgery, but the workouts have been really intense!!!
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 11:28 PM   #765
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Stephan Guyenet finally writes up his food reward theory recommendations.

He isn't low carb, you know, so take it with a grain of salt.

I'm thinking my 3 foods would have to be: eggs, potatoes (Kwasniewski's 50 carbs you know), yogurt--all 3 plain. OMG, this means no sweetner/cream/coffee...

= = = = = =


Food Reward: a Dominant Factor in Obesity, Part VII

Now that I've explained the importance of food reward to obesity, and you're tired of reading about it, it's time to share my ideas on how to prevent and perhaps reverse fat gain. First, I want to point out that although food reward is important, it's not the only factor. Heritable factors (genetics and epigenetics), developmental factors (uterine environment, childhood diet), lifestyle factors (exercise, sleep, stress) and dietary factors besides reward also play a role. That's why I called this series "a dominant factor in obesity", rather than "the dominant factor in obesity".


Nevertheless, the more I read, the more I'm convinced that excessive food reward and/or palatability is the elephant in the room when it comes to obesity and metabolic dysfunction. We live our lives surrounded by foods that are professionally crafted to satisfy our basest gustatory desires-- to drive us to eat more, against the wisdom that our bodies have accumulated over millions of years. They do this by exploiting the hard-wired preferences that guided us toward healthy food in the natural environment.

Obesity is not always going to be 100 percent reversible. I know no one wants to hear that, but I'm not in the business of selling snake oil. Some people can reverse it completely; others won't lose any fat at all; the majority can probably lose a substantial amount of fat but not all of it. Highly controlled diet studies in rodents show that obesity due to eating highly rewarding/palatable refined food is mostly reversible when they are placed back on low-palatability whole food, but they don't usually lose all of the excess fat, and the longer they've been obese, the less fat they lose (1, 2, 3). The capacity for the fat mass "setpoint" to re-establish at a lower level may diminish over time, varies between individuals, and probably also depends on other factors that no one currently understands. I think it's important to be kind to yourself, and not set unreasonable expectations.

I can't guarantee that what I'll present here will help everyone, but it is unlikely to do harm. As always, these are simply ideas for you to consider. You are fully responsible for your own implementation of them, and your own outcomes.

Recommendations

I've organized this weight loss strategy into five different "levels" based on the desired outcome. Some people may want to use this strategy in a preventive manner, or to address metabolic disorders other than overweight that are related to excess energy intake (insulin resistance, fatty liver, etc.), in which case they would probably want to stick to levels 1-3. Levels 4 and 5 are primarily for people who are not losing weight at the lower levels, and would like to further reduce food reward and the body fat setpoint.

The goal is to adopt a diet that allows fat mass to return to a healthy level, while eating nutritious food to fullness. You may initially feel deprived, but you should become more satisfied by simple food over time.

Level 1

The low-hanging fruit:

Avoid the highest reward foods: candy, sweetened chocolate, ice cream, cake, cookies, other sweet baked goods, fast food, pizza, and other foods that you know are particularly problematic for you. Don't put yourself in a position to be tempted by these if you can avoid it.
Minimize liquid calories, particularly sweetened beverages, beer and sweet cocktails. Modest quantities of milk, wine, and unsweetened spirits are fine.
Don't snack. In France and many other countries with strong food traditions, snacks are for children. Adults eat at mealtime, in a deliberate manner.

Level 2

In addition to everything in level 1:

Avoid industrially processed food in general, particularly packaged food with many ingredients. Minimize restaurant food. Cook your own food from single ingredients to the extent that you're able.
Avoid adding sweeteners to food and drinks-- including artificial sweeteners. The sweet flavor itself is a reward factor.

Avoid seed oils (corn, soybean, sunflower and safflower in particular).
Include a regular source of omega-3 in your diet. This can come from some mixture of wild-caught fish, flax seed/oil, pastured meat/dairy/eggs and green vegetables.

Level 3

In addition to everything in levels 1 and 2:

Reduce the overall energy density of your food (calories per volume) while keeping it nutritious, but don't go overboard. This can be accomplished by adding extra vegetables to the meal, and using potatoes and sweet potatoes as the main source of starch (rather than bread, pasta, rice, etc.). Microwaving is a fast and effective way to cook potatoes and sweet potatoes for those who are short on time.

Focus on minimally processed foods.

Don't add fat to your food. That doesn't mean don't eat fat, it just means keep it separate from your cooking. If you want to eat butter, eat it separately rather than mixing it in with your dish.

Level 4

This level is about simplicity. Here, we are approximating the reward value of certain non-industrial diets. In addition to everything in levels 1-3:

Eat only single ingredients with no flavorings added. No spices, herbs, salt, added sweeteners, added fats, etc. If you eat a potato, eat it plain. If you eat a piece of chicken, eat it plain. It can be in the same meal as other foods, but don't mix anything together. If you would like to keep salt in your diet, dissolve it in water and drink it separately.

Cook foods gently. Minimize grilling, sauteing, broiling, frying, and particularly deep frying. Add a bit of water to the pan, rather than oil, when cooking meat or vegetables, and cook gently with the lid on.

Minimize all liquid calories.

Only eat foods that taste good when you're hungry; avoid foods that you'd be inclined to snack on even when not hungry. A lot of foods move from the latter category to the former when they're completely unseasoned.
Some people will benefit from avoiding wheat. Your mileage may vary on this.

Level 5

This level reduces variety, which is another reward factor (4). This is something that you attempt at your own risk, as there may be downsides to eating the same foods every day. I think the risk is small if you choose your three foods carefully. I wouldn't recommend doing this indefinitely, but rather as a short-term strategy to lose fat, followed by a more relaxed maintenance phase.

Pick three foods, and eat nothing else. Try to pick foods that will provide a relatively balanced diet. A starch, a meat and a green vegetable is one possibility. For example: potatoes, broccoli and beef. Again, cook everything gently and add no seasonings to your food whatsoever, including salt.

Macronutrients

Some people have lost fat simply by avoiding carbohydrate or fat. I've heard people say that a low-carbohydrate diet in particular curbs their cravings and allow them to have a healthy relationship with food again (although others have developed strong cravings on low-carbohydrate diets). I believe this is mostly, if not exclusively, driven by the fact that carbohydrate and fat are major reward factors.

I believe that all things being equal, it's best not to restrict any macronutrient to an extreme degree (there may be some exceptions, such as diabetes). That being said, as carbohydrate and fat are major reward factors, they are additional tools in the toolbox that you can use to further reduce reward if you choose.

Don't be a Drill Sergeant

Ultimately, for any diet to work, it needs to be sustainable. It's probably a good idea to allow yourself a meal or two a week that you really enjoy. Just don't indulge in the worst offenders-- foods that will stay on your mind, and reinforce your cravings for days or weeks. You know what your own trigger foods are. Don't even put yourself in the vicinity of those foods if you can avoid it. If your diet is balanced and nutritious, your cravings should subside over time, and you will become more satisfied by simple food.

An Alternative Strategy

In his book The Shangri-La Diet, UCLA psychologist Dr. Seth Roberts outlines a simple strategy that he claims can lower the body fat setpoint without significantly altering the diet. The technique involves taking flavorless calorie-containing foods between meals, which lowers overall energy intake by suppressing appetite (according to him, by lowering the setpoint). I'm not going to steal his thunder, so you can read his book, or visit his website or forum if you want more information about how to implement it.

I tried Dr. Roberts' strategy for a week out of curiosity, and it did suppress my appetite somewhat. According to the theory, the more excess fat mass you begin with, the more your appetite should be suppressed. I didn't have much fat to lose, but I noticed a modest effect on my appetite nevertheless. I have a few reservations about the technique. I don't know much about its long-term effectiveness or safety, and neither does Dr. Roberts, according to our communications. It doesn't strike me as having the potential to be very dangerous, but as our ancestors didn't sip refined olive oil between meals, the precautionary principle applies. Still, it's an interesting technique that I'll be keeping my eye on in the upcoming years.

Last edited by Key Tones; 06-28-2011 at 11:30 PM..
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 11:44 PM   #766
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Amber - You have lost a lot of weight in 9 months still!!! Hmm, interesting...1,000 to 1,200 calories - that isn't very many calories, of course you know that. I think you will recover your libedo when you get to maintence and get some rest...I have a theory now so I will want to hear about it, be sure not to eat sugar when you get there so I can confirm this! (LOL, I know you won't after all that work)

It is good that you are eating more for all the training you're doing...I read an article about a biggest loser contestant - he said that people that dropped below 1500 calories would lose a lot less weight (shut down the metabolism).

Last edited by Key Tones; 06-28-2011 at 11:45 PM..
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 05:48 AM   #767
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Thanks K.T. for posting Stephan Guyenet's food reward article. I listened to him speak via ipod a couple of weeks ago and have thought about it since. The major flaw I see with what he proposes is the underlying suggestion of overeating. While this may be the case for some folks, it simply does not apply for me (I have closely examined this possibility) and to others that I know.

I do think he is coming from another perspective as some of his strategies are those things that low carbers are already doing. In addition, he prefaces everything by saying that some people simply cannot get to a 'normal' weight no matter. I guess I am rejecting that, for obvious reasons...

He does give pause for thought and I appreciate what he is saying and that there is value in it but I don't 'buy' the whole hypothesis.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs" -The Spark of Reason

“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 05:57 AM   #768
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
Well KT that article is intersting it is sort of like Dukan's Ideal weight, which factors in your lowest weight, the weight you have been most of your life, etc, like I think 198 is sort of high but since my doctor said that and that is the exact # Dukan came up with, I am guessing it is something I will be able to maintain, now additionally getting all this excess tissue hacked and building muscle is going to help get below that number. I think he is trying to make people have realistic goals, like ideally I should weigh 150, I am quite certain I will never see that low of a number just due to my frame size!

Here is an interesting fact, I have been eating almost 2000 calories the last 4 days, and averaging around 50% fat, 40% protein, 10% carbs, and you know how much I exercise,get this I was 216 this morning, I almost fell over, I had to go wake Tony and make him come watch, LOL I think my Dukan bout and now going back to low carb and eating more is really working, I am getting so close, almost 30 years since I weighed less than 200 I just want this so bad!!!!! Never in a million years did I think I would be starring 200 in the face and having lost over 100 pounds, much less 150!!! It is mind numbing at times!

Last edited by Bejewelme; 06-29-2011 at 06:17 AM..
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 06:15 AM   #769
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejewelme View Post
Well KT that article is intersting it is sort of like Dukan's Ideal weight, which factors in your lowest weight, the weight you have been most of your life, etc, like I think 198 is sort of high but since my doctor said that and that is the exact # Dukan came up with, I am guessing it is something I will be able to maintain, now additionally getting all this excess tissue hacked and building muscle is going to help get below that number. I think he is trying to make people have realistic goals, like ideally I should way 150, I am quite certain I will never see that low of a number just due to my frame size!

Here is an interesting fact, I have been eating almost 2000 calories the last 4 days, and averaging around 50% fat, 40% protein, 10% carbs, and you know how much I exercise,get this I was 216 this morning, I almost fell over, I had to go wake Tony and make him come watch, LOL I think my Dukan bout and now going back to low carb and eating more is really working, I am getting so close, almost 30 years since I weighed less than 200 I just want this so bad!!!!! Never in a million years did I think I would be starring 200 in the face and having lost over 100 pounds, much less 150!!! It is mind numbing at times!
What a happy post!!! Feeling the thrill! What an amazing job you have done!
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 06:18 AM   #770
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
TY Cathy I am working my tail off, never did I think I had all this exercise in me and I am sort of addicted to it! LOL I love now pushing myself to see what I can do! I am like a kid with my trainer, I get so excited to show her something I can do, but then she pushes me harder so I gotta stop that, LOL She is killing me!
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 09:02 AM   #771
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Amber - OMG, 216 is great!!! I really think you have to eat given the gruelling workouts, I am really glad you have and it worked!

Cathy - heh, yes, I think we are already doing most of what Stephan says.

I have tried some of the higher-stage recommendations, but just not all at once. Perhaps no spices, no drinking calories (cream), and limiting options (for short periods) and making sure a couple of free meals are very high in nutrients will work.

I have already been mulling over something like this anyway, intermittently, and looking at what he is saying, perhaps I can figure out a way to do this. I want to work in reward meals with some workouts.
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 05:14 PM   #772
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
I know you girls will figure it out, it takes some mixing up for sure and you constantly have to be thinking about everything, man I cant wait for the day I can know what I can eat without worry!!!!
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 07:26 PM   #773
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Heh, yes, I think we will figure it out!

On Stephan's comments on some people can't lose weight- I wonder if he has thought about some of us that never give up! <shakes fist vigorously> So what if I have taken 6 years to get this weight off and maybe need 6 more?

I just blow off comments like that. Most people call it quits at 6 weeks!!!! That is nothing!!!!

Heh. Never give up.
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 07:32 PM   #774
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Heh, yes, I think we will figure it out!

On Stephan's comments on some people can't lose weight- I wonder if he has thought about some of us that never give up! <shakes fist vigorously> So what if I have taken 6 years to get this weight off and maybe need 6 more?

I just blow off comments like that. Most people call it quits at 6 weeks!!!! That is nothing!!!!

Heh. Never give up.
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 10:41 PM   #775
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Ha! I just found another hole in my diet! He doesn't mention shellfish has folate. I only eat shellfish once per week. I am leary of eating a lot of seafood. I wish I liked liver.

OK, I'm going to seriously up my egg yolks.


Chris Masterjohn's Article from the Daily Lipid:


= = = = =

Tuesday, March 15, 2011

Anyone Doing Paleo Without Liver, Bones, Skin, and Greens?

Matt Stone is doing an interesting series on the damage to the thyroid caused by eating too much muscle meat instead of the gelatinous materials found in the other half of the animal.

Muscle meats and eggs are very rich in methionine, which increases our need for homocysteine-neutralizing nutrients (vitamins B6, B12, folate, betaine, and choline), and also increases our need for the amino acid glycine, found most abundantly in skin and bones.

I most recently made this point in my post on meeting the choline requirement:

Thus, although having a PEMT gene that Uncle Buck would surely envy might lower our choline requirement, consuming lots of methionine won't help us at all. In fact, extra methionine just gives us more homocysteine and thereby increases our need for choline, betaine, folate, B12, and B6.

I had first made this point, however, in my 2007 article on pregnancy nutrition:

Glycine is depleted in the detoxification of excess methionine, another amino acid. Eggs and meat are the main sources of methionine—it not only constitutes a greater percentage of their total protein but these foods are also higher in total protein than plant foods (see Figure 9).56 It is important, therefore, for the expectant mother to liberally match her eggs and muscle meats with glycine-rich skin and bones and folate-rich liver, legumes and greens.
While the metabolism of methionine uses up glycine, betaine and folate can generate glycine in addition to neutralizing homocysteine, although the effect of betaine is restricted primarily to certain tissues such as the liver and kidney.

But where's all the folate? Liver and beans. You can get lots of folate if you eat liver, and you can get lots by eating lentil soup, but if you're eating a bean-free diet and you can't stand the taste of liver, you're going to have to eat the quantities of green vegetables that Joel Fuhrman recommends in order to obtain a comparable amount of folate.

And where's the betaine? We can make betaine from the choline obtained from egg yolks and liver, but the best source is spinach and the most common source is wheat. Again, the utility of choline and betaine in neutralizing homocysteine and generating glycine is limited to the liver and kidney, so folate is more important.

Glycine itself is most abundant in skin and bones.

Thus, while many people may improve their digestion and other symptoms by removing wheat and beans, the fact that they may consider these foods "evil" does not automatically deliver them from the need to make up these nutrients from some other source. Muscle meats will always increase the need for glycine from skin and bones, but this effect could be greatly exaggerated if one eliminates legumes (and fortified bread?) without also increasing one's intake of organ meats and green vegetables.

This gives me a lot to think about, as I've really slacked on making stocks since starting grad school, and I often find myself in the office or lab too often to steam many vegetables.

Last edited by Key Tones; 06-29-2011 at 10:56 PM..
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 08:33 AM   #776
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
K.T. - HELP!!! I cannot make heads or tails out of the Masterjohn article....:blush: I wonder if you would be willing to 'translate' it for me.

I listened to a blog with him this week and he took 1.5 hours to discuss 'cholesterol'. It was great because he was careful to explain everything in 'lay men' language. It is clear that he is one smart dude!
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 09:46 PM   #777
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
Key Tones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,460
Gallery: Key Tones
Stats: 312/227/??? 5/10"
Start Date: LC start 2005, have tried everything...
Oh, he's talking about balancing amino acids...it's the same reason we are supposed to eat gelatin (eat the skin or bone broth soups) and organ meats to offset the muscle meat. I think Chris Masterjohn is saying if we eat too much meat without the bone broth, skin, and especially liver, this tilts us toward vitamin deficiencies.

...and a supplement that is supposed to help with environmental stress, fatty liver, stressors on the liver: betaine (you see it in health food stores)

Folate is a b vitamin that is supposed to be fairly deficient in our diet. It is a basic building block our bodies need; deficiencies have ugly results in pregnant women (neural tube defects). Some think this deficiency is a factor in heart disease and cancer. I have read grey hair can be a symptom of deficiency!

I'm not saying I understand it all, but I know I need to get cracking on the liver thing. I ordered some freeze-dried dessicated buffalo liver today - that last stuff I ordered was on backorder so long I cancelled it. Amazon has this stuff in stock...Chris Kresser suggested it for those that can't handle eating liver.
Key Tones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:28 AM   #778
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Thank you!!! So he is basically in line with Dr. Kwasneiwski from the sounds of it. I had not considered folate as a possible deficiency however. I was under the impression that deficiency was specific to Great Britain but now I wonder why that made any sense???

Even though I like liver, I find it difficult to work into my menu because I love so many other choices. I have 3 lbs. of organic chicken livers in my freezer that I need to make pate out of (1 lb. at a time of course). I was trying to think of another way to prepare it but ....

My 2 dogs get far more liver than I do. It is a cheap source of protein and I add it into their food along with heart and gizzards regularly now. Their food rivals mine in terms of nutrition it seems!

I have been researching some suppliments and adding a few to my repertoire because of Dr. M. Eades lastest blog. I wonder if anyone else read it and what they think of the list of suggested suppliments?

The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:50 AM   #779
Way too much time on my hands!
 
Bejewelme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Reading/PA
Posts: 13,555
Gallery: Bejewelme
Stats: 350+/221.4/198 (5'10)
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarted 9/27/2010
Clackley- I love chicken livers, my fav, is butter, mushrooms, garlic and lots of onions!!! I eat them like that, sometimes I grind them up for pate, but I usually cant wait! LOL

KT- if you lived close I would make you liver and you would love it, it is all about the preparation!!! It is so good!!!! Chicken livers are my fav but I love beef liver too, it jsut freaks me out touching it, LOL
Bejewelme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 09:56 AM   #780
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
piratejenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,884
Gallery: piratejenny
Stats: 293/<273/<160 (5'7")
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: restart 6/12/14 @ 289.4
Bejewelme, that chicken liver recipe sounds so good! I noticed chicken livers are so cheap, about a pound for $2. My Italian-neighbor-from-Alabama makes excellent fried chicken livers. They are so rich, I usually like the first 3 or 4 but then I get scared of them! lol

I find if I use food prep gloves (really cheap at the grocery store, dollar store, Wal Mart, etc) for certain tasks I get a lot less grossed out. Or for making meatballs, kneading dough, etc sometimes I use them because you get less stuff stuck to your hands and under your fingernails. I'm not that squeamish about most food but the gloves just make it quicker & easier
__________________
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast." --Ace Rimmer
"Really, how is eating a piece of cake bad? Being bad is murdering someone.
That's bad. Don't do that." --Sarah Michelle Gellar
****************************************
New lows, 2014:
7/25....276.2
8/01....274.6
8/02....274.2
8/03....273.6
8/04....271.6

Last edited by piratejenny; 07-01-2011 at 09:57 AM.. Reason: punctuation
piratejenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:43 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.