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Old 06-18-2011, 12:42 PM   #721
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This is the perfect article on fats. Thank you for posting, Auntie Em! Love Kurt Harris, he turned me on to Kwasniewski.
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:33 PM   #722
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Always good reading, much to think about!

What do you think KT, the Fat Free diet sucks, IMO, I am ready for more butter, LOL
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:19 PM   #723
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Oh my gosh, you aren't kidding! Really low fat makes me desperate in more ways than one! Pooti isn't the only one looking for the poo fairy
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:46 AM   #724
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Check it out, the Healthy Skeptic Chris Kresser is taking questions for the Dr. Emily Deans podcast!

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/dr-emil...m_medium=email
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:14 AM   #725
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Oh my, she looks about 16! I am getting sooooo old!
I love Beverly's question...

"Question for Chris and Dr. Deans: I’m a nurse on an acute psychiatric unit. I’ve long had an interest in nutrition and mental health. We often have patients that are several years out from Gastric Bypass surgery who are psychotic. Is there any research being done on the long term effects of this surgery? It seems that radically changing the gut’s functioning would lead to mental health issues because of disruption of the brain-gut axis. Thanks!"

Looking forward to the show!
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:45 AM   #726
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Cathy, here is more ammunition for your anti-PUFA discussions:

PUFAs and Neurodegeneration: abstracts of research studies
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Old 06-19-2011, 12:04 PM   #727
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Clackley-Cathy, Oh my gosh, that is a great question, I missed that!!!

When Virginia Mason (the medical group my husband goes to) thought my husband should have gastric bypass (as if he doesn;t have enough problems, this really ticked me off), I looked into it to talk him down (he was considering it!!!). The last thing he needs is malabsorption of nutrients!!!

You would at least think they would be concerned that a golf-ball sized stomach isn't large enough to even hold the number of pills he takes. OMG...they are so willing to sacrifice someone for a buck.

I remember reading gastric bypass disrupts digestive enzymes so one can no longer process alcohol efficiently. One becomes drunk on a small amount of alcohol. The rate of alcoholism goes up.

I also remember from my Dr. Fuhrman days that he said cutting away the stomach signicantly disrupts hormone production in the body, the stomach is important!!!!

I have heard of higher suicide rates post surgery, but of course the bariatric surgeons state these are related to problems before the surgery...couldn't *possibly* be the procedure...
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Old 06-19-2011, 02:03 PM   #728
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Before Tony I dated a guy that had gastric bypass and he was a mean drunk, didn't take too many dates to figure that out, he would have like 2 vodkas and be so mean and weird and then call me and be like why don't you want to see me? Um hello you're an idiot! He looked great had a lot of muscle so no skin issues, but he was losing hair, I know some people who have been successful but many who have not, I never really seriously considered it and I thought you are so limited anyway afterwards on what you can eat, why not just do it the old fashioned way.
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Old 06-20-2011, 02:55 AM   #729
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Amber,

I did read up about it and considered it myself at one point a long time ago. A good friend of mine, a former co-worker and minister told me about a very good friend of hers that died of complications after having the surgery. The reason she was telling me was because her best friend was with us, she had had some sort of surgery. She lost some weight but was still heavy, she was getting around it by taking her food with her after eating at the restaurants and just picking at it all night until she got it down, including desserts. I don't remember which surgery she had, probably lap band because I think she otherwise would have been barfing or dumping or something.

A current co-worker of mine told me her mom got the lap-band surgery but can't afford to get the fills, which costs $300, so she is still heavy. That is quite a burden. Follow up care is for the rest of your life!!!

That ex boyfriend sounds like a horror. Oh, I am sure he was more than a little drunk on 2 vodkas with the gastric bypass.

Anyway, I totally agree, I would rather do this on my own.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:26 AM   #730
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Hi, ladies.

A couple of research reports on dopamine, opioid receptors, food rewards, etc.

Obesity - Abstract of article: Dopamine for [ldquo]Wanting[rdquo] and Opioids for [ldquo]Liking[rdquo]: A Comparison of Obese Adults With and Without Binge Eating

[]Nonhedonic[] food motivation in humans involves dopamine in the dorsal striatum and methylphenidate amplifies this effect - Volkow - 2002 - Synapse - Wiley Online Library

I don't know why the titles appear that way. The links work.

Best wishes to all for a very lovely day.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:09 AM   #731
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Today's nifty find:

How Vitamin C solves the problem of nitrates. I so like having something such as this to back up things I read on forums and blogs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...df/1020067.pdf
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:23 AM   #732
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Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
Today's nifty find:

How Vitamin C solves the problem of nitrates. I so like having something such as this to back up things I read on forums and blogs.
I can't make head or tails of this!!!
What does it mean...I should take a Vitamin C when I eat a hot dog?
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:47 AM   #733
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Jenny, yes. Vitamin C takes away the effect of the nitrate. A few folks posted about this in the comments after Stephan Guyenet's post on Nitrates.
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:02 PM   #734
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Thank you, Auntie Em!
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:06 PM   #735
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Interesting, I guess this is why my Gram is not suppose to eat dark leafy greens on coumidin? Never really understood that til now!

I am a big believer in supplements and in particular Vitamin C, my BF says I take too much stuff and maybe I do, but I have not had a cold or flu since I started dieting last year, and I feel tons better!!!
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:27 PM   #736
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Amber, I know this one. My husband is on coumadin (informally known as blood thinners) because he has two artificial heart valves, which can cause blood clots to form. We don't want him stroking out. He has to be careful not to suddenly eat lots of certain foods or to suddenly cut them out.

It's not that she isn't supposed to eat them - if she does eat them, she is supposed to eat a consistent amount from week to week. The nurse or doc that is monitoring her is supposed to be taking "INR checks" to determine the dose, and if she is eating different amounts all the time, it means vitamin K is all over the map. This makes dosing coumadin tricky. It is even tricker if she never eats any then suddenly eats a lot. It can be a tough game to control! INR that is either too high or too low is problematic and even dangerous for strokes.

The coumadin reduces the liver's ability to use vitamin K to form clots.

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Old 06-20-2011, 04:04 PM   #737
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Oh, I never buy iceberg lettuce but I do for her, I know she goes and gets tested, she had a stroke 8 years ago and then the pacemaker put in right after she does well, although I think she is coming up on needing a new pacemaker and she is going to be 90, so not sure what they do for that! She is the one that lives on sugar and donuts, LOL and is shrinking away! At 90 guess it doesnt really matter, but I make her eat better when she is here no junk and more veggies, LOL Its like reversing roles with them!
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:22 PM   #738
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My husband is on a pacemaker too. The battery dies over time, so it has to be replaced, and he is 100% pacemaker dependent! I'm not sure if they will just replace the battery or put a new one in. I hope he gets one with a defibrillator next time.

The surgery is no big deal, as I understand it, if the leads are fine. They just make an incision and they are there, the thing is right under the skin on top of the ribs.

I heard my grandma was doing stuff like eating candy as she went blind from diabetes. I hope I take care of myself when I get older.
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:21 PM   #739
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Just stopping by to say hello. Ordered to not sit at the computer much due to neck problems. Hope everyone is doing great. Traveling to Seattle area this week, it's over 100 degrees here and in the 60s there, so out come the winter clothes!
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:22 PM   #740
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Eliza, I wish you a safe and happy trip. Hope your neck gets well soon.
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:30 PM   #741
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Eliza, I wish you a safe and happy trip. Hope your neck gets well soon.
Thanks, Auntie Em, for the well wishes. A work in progress, my neck, pinched nerves, and sitting in front of the computer aggravates it .... I have missed logging on and reading all the great info here.
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:33 PM   #742
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Eliza, I hope you get to feeling better and can post more. It's always nice to read your posts.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:18 AM   #743
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So, speaking of leptin. I was perusing Jack Kruse site. He reccomends a paleo program for 6-8 wks to correct leptin resistance.
The amt of protein Dr. K reccomends in a day is what you'd eat for breakfast.
The guy is a smart one though. Have a look. (If you love reading science, you'll love this guy!)

The other big news is that Don Matesz is giving up paleo for plant based!!
Of course, it's the comments.......

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Old 06-23-2011, 02:27 PM   #744
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Jem51 -

Leptin resistance - heh, the new holy grail.

On protein recommendations - yep, I can't do Kwasniewski's low protein recommendation without the 50 carbs and a lot of fat. They go together.

RE: Don Matesz is giving up paleo for plant based, seriously? I don't read his blog, but I remember that right after Mark Sisson held him out as having one of the best paleo blogs, he posted a hair-brained analysis of the melting temperatures of dietary fats, and Chris Masterjohn and Stephan Guyenet ripped it up. Don took it down so there is nothing to see.

I know that Kurt Harris pointed to Danny Roddy's blog as someone that was utilizing a high-fat diet to make a carnivore diet work, and when I pulled it up, he is there writing about Ray Peat. Interesting nonetheless.

Did you see the Free The Animal Blog post about fruit from May 31st? I started looking at his blog when I found he honestly talked about how some people go hypothyroid on paleo. I wouldn't read it if you're easily offended, he's like reading Ted Nugent unsensored, full of F words and other crudeness. I'm not crazy about it and so have read prob. less than a dozen posts.

Anyway, he called BS on the paleo belief that hunter-gathers ate low sugar fruits. He referenced Denise Minger's May 31st post on Wild Fruit (a raw food blogger). 50,000 years ago, our ancestors were in Africa, and the fruit there is sweet--he (and she) posted pic after pic after pic of sweet, juicy fruits, then said do you really believe people wouldn't eat these???

I had totally bought into the belief that people historically didn't have sweet fruit. This looks debunked.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:18 PM   #745
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KT, it is true that you can poke holes in anything.

I think Roddy has been hanging out w Matt Stone for quite a while now.

My response to the low sugar fruit bit is always the same; dates are prehistoric.

I didn't read much of Matesz and only read some of his stuff because Rachel and I were involved in macrobiotics in the '80's. Apparently he has a different wife now.
Maybe he gets bored easily.

KT, I think we need to find a new name for our thread and let this one go. Only because none of us are following Dr K and it may be confusing to those who come searching.
What do you think?
I still enjoy the discussions re various science and such.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:21 PM   #746
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Eh, I don't know what else to call what I'm doing--Kwasniewski is the closest, I think. I'm eating 4 to 6 eggs per day--it is an egg-based diet (with gelatin mixed into the eggs! my co-workers think I am crazy--they see me pull out the gelatin to whip into raw eggs and then I pop that into the microwave). I drink the half-half in my coffee. I eat the 50-ish carbs, I'm not eating as much fat anymore but he says drop the fat for weight loss. I just have to to eat more protein when dropping fat or I just feel terrible. I eat fruit and vegetables like condiments, in small amounts (I only eat the occasional salad when I go out to eat now). I am playing around with the carbs. Good gosh, I have a bag of organic potatos on the counter! I don't have them every day, but a few times a week.

When the weather cools off, I will go back to making the gelatinous stock broths.

Kwasniewski is not a weight loss diet per se, he doesn't give much advice on how to lose weight, but it is a diet for regaining your health, and I think this is the spirit of what we talk about in this thread.

I have to credit Kwasniewski for bringing me back to feeling good and not fearing the restroom :blush::blush:

I think other paleo stuff I have read has lead me down the path of trying to stuff in too many vegetables, fruits and meat that I can't digest well anyway. I am all for learning about getting by on more animal foods and less of everything else in a healthy way.

I don't think I can call myself a carnivore since I eat greek yogurt and a lot of days I don't eat any meat at all.

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Old 06-23-2011, 11:19 PM   #747
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Woot! Check out this post from today's Mark's Daily Apple

I suggest going to his blog to read. It has interesting links and pretty pictures.

The bolding is my doing, as usual.

= = = = =

A Guide to Crustaceans, Bivalves and Molluscs, or Why You Should Be Eating Exoskeleton-Bearing Aquatic Invertebrates

I grew up in a coastal fishing village in Maine, and one of my favorite memories is being out on the flats at low-tide, digging for the clams that would accompany our occasional lobster feasts (back when lobster was well under a dollar a pound). I can still feel the excitement of pulling that clam rake up and looking for the tasty bivalves that would soon become the first course.

We humans like our shellfish. Nearly every coastal region which hosted humans features massive shell collections, often called shell heaps, or middens. You’ve even got inland piles, like the 11,000 year old midden full of snail shells in inland Vietnam, indicating that even inlanders knew shellfish were worth eating. Back in my marathon training days, I recall running a mountain trail in Woodside, CA, ten miles inland, and coming across layers of thousand year-old strata embedded with all manner of seashell left behind by the coastal Indian tribes. Because the entirety was just full of seashells, you had to look closely to discern the individual shells. These folks definitely liked their shellfish.



Recounting a classic Weston A. Price observation, Chris Masterjohn describes how two perpetually warring New Guinean tribes would broker temporary peace to trade shellfish for sweet potatoes. The upland tribes would put aside the spears and bring down some tubers, while the coastal tribes would relent and offer shellfish. It was a beautiful arrangement, far more harmonious than the alternative (which sometimes occurred) – the highlanders selectively hunting and eating the livers and organs of fishermen of the coastal tribes.

But why? What can explain the persistent shell middens all over the world, both inland and on the coasts? Why were there so many seashells embedded in that Woodside strata? What’s so great about shellfish that it stops multigenerational tribal warfare in its tracks and drives sweet potato eaters to prize the organs of fishermen who eat it?

They’re tasty, sure, but I wouldn’t put oysters, mussels, and clams over a grass-fed lamb shoulder roast, and I doubt the flavor of those New Guinean fisherman livers reflected the shellfish content of their diet. No, the taste isn’t the driving factor. It’s the uniquely dense nutrition inherent to most shellfish. Since they spend their lives immersed in mineral rich water, they’re excellent repositories of those same minerals, including zinc, iodine, selenium, and magnesium, along with vitamin A and B-vitamins (especially B12). Plus, when we eat shellfish, we’re eating the entire animal (except for the shell). All that muscle meat and digestive tissue and organ mass slides right down. Humans can get these nutrients on land through other animals and some plants, but rarely can they get them in such a concentrated, easy-to-consume form. And you all know how much we like to make things easy for ourselves.

Let’s go down the list of species and make a case for including shellfish in your diet:

Oysters

The most nutrient dense
, the most expensive, the perfect accompaniment to lemon and hot sauce, oysters are truly the stars of the shellfish world. Recent evidence of an early “oyster bar” puts our infatuation with the bivalves at around 125,000 years old, which is a pretty strong track record. The oyster’s reputation as an aphrodisiac may have ground to stand on, as they are the single greatest source of dietary zinc, which our body needs to make testosterone.

Just four medium sized Pacific oysters supply a smattering of B-vitamins (including over 1000% of daily B12), 1200 IU of vitamin A, a third of daily folate, almost 7 mg of vitamin E, 3 mg copper, 280% of daily selenium, and 33 mg zinc. That comes with 18 g protein, 4 g fat, 1.5 g omega-3, 0.1 g omega-6, and 9 grams of carbohydrates.

At an Asian supermarket, I can buy those four oysters, still living, for $0.80 a pop. Or, I can head down to Malibu Seafood and pick up some for a couple bucks each. As to whether farmed oysters, which make up 95% of the market, are okay, they’re fine. If you remember from last time, I described how most farmed shellfish live totally “natural” lives, only instead of being attached to a rock they’re attached to an artificial construct. Same water and food, though. Eat these guys raw and living for the full effect (plus briny goodness). Canned, smoked oysters are also an option.

How to open oysters.

Clams

As a New England native, I’m contractually obliged to sing the praises of the clam. Now, they aren’t quite as nutrient-rich as oysters, but they’re still worth eating for a few reasons. First – the texture. Some people hate the chewiness; I love it. I can understand if you get clams cooked to the consistency of rubber, as many restaurants do, but not every food has to be tender. Frankly, I’d find it a little unsettling if clams just disintegrated in my mouth. Second, the versatility. Clams definitely have a flavor – they aren’t blank canvases – but it’s a flavor that lends itself to a lot of cooking styles. Spicy stir fried Asian clams? Yep, works. Steamed with butter, garlic, and white wine? Great stuff. And of course you’ve got New England clam chowder, which – by itself – justifies the presence of clams on this planet.

They’re also nutritious. Fifteen medium raw clams (mixed species) gives a nice dose of vitamin A, B12, selenium, magnesium, and iron, plus 31 g protein, 7 g carbohydrate, and 300 mg omega-3.


Most clams are farmed, and that’s okay.

Try making arctic char chowder, only with clams.

Mussels

When I was younger, mussels were more of a low-end shellfish that I avoided (after all, you could find scads of them clinging to every dock piling on the East Coast). With their appearance on more gourmet menus lately, I’ve taken a shine to them. In the shell, cooked in white wine, garlic, and butter, with about a cup of savory mussel broth left over is just incredible and super easy. Fast, too. It only takes me ten minutes to throw a big batch together. In fact, I could probably squeeze one in right now… Great. Now I’m hungry for mussels. Hold on while I fix some.

In my last post on farmed seafood, I gave credit to the incredible nutrition of the New Zealand green-lipped mussel, which I love but have only had frozen. I can only imagine them fresh. Standard blue mussels are very nutrient-dense, too. 20 medium sized raw blue mussels provide folate (1/3 of the RDA), good amounts of B-vitamins including thiamine, riboflavin, and B12, 108 mg magnesium, 12.6 mg iron, four days’ worth of manganese, 143 micrograms selenium, and 5.1 mg zinc. Along for ride are 38 g protein, 11 g carbohydrate, and 7 g fat, including 1.5 g omega-3 and just 100 mg of omega-6.

I’d be leery of farmed Asian mussels, but all other sources are fine.

Try tomato garlic mussels.

Scallops


Sweet, succulent scallops, formed into perfect bite-sized morsels. They almost seem designed specifically for eating, with their flat, even surfaces (good for searing), uniform, attractive color, and natural sweetness. Compare the scallop, which looks like it was formed in a mold, to the oyster, that delicious but shapeless blob of slime and salt, and you see why squeamish folks will shun shellfish but happily eat the scallop.

Just because the masses love ‘em doesn’t mean they aren’t good for you. On the contrary, a mere six ounces of scallops provides the RDA for B12 and a decent mix of magnesium, selenium, and zinc, plus 20 grams of protein. Farmed and wild scallops from all over get a good rating from the Seafood Watch, so have at them.

Try scallops and bacon.

Lobster, Crab, and Crayfish

Lobster, crab, and crayfish aren’t what most people typically think of when discussing shellfish. They are arthropods, rather than mollusks. They walk around and actively eat things, instead of being filter feeders. They have big claws. Are they encased in shell? Yes, and so they are included.

The nutrition data available for lobster, crab, and crayfish indicate decent levels of magnesium, selenium, and zinc, more so for crab and lobster than crayfish, probably because the former are sea creatures and the latter is freshwater. As this article points out, conventional data most likely doesn’t account for the viscera, or connective tissue and organ mass; it’s only concerned with the muscle meat. If the nutrition data for the organs of other animals is anything to go by, eating the viscera of arthropods is certain to provide a wider, denser range of nutrients. So that means eating the crab and lobster “butter” and sucking out the contents of the crayfish head are probably good ideas.

All crab and lobster are wild caught and good to eat. Farmed American crayfish is safe and plentiful.

Try lobster, grapefruit, and avocado salad with creamy citrus dressing.

Sea Snails

Two main types of sea snails are usually available for purchase: whelks and conchs. Usually available is relative, of course. You probably won’t find these at Safeway. To distinguish between the two, rely on the labels or the guy working the seafood counter. Conch shells tend to be a bit more ornate looking, almost with a crown-like structure or “horns”, while whelks do not. It’s easy to mix them up. Conch shells double as wind instruments, like in “Lord of the Flies.” I’ve never had whelk, but conch ceviche is incredible.

Three ounces of raw whelk (unspecified species) meat contains a day’s worth of copper, 4.3 mg iron, 73 mg magnesium, and 70%, or 38 micrograms, of selenium, plus plenty of B12. You also get 20 g protein and 6 g carbs, but sadly no fat. Four ounces of cooked conch meat gives you 17 g protein, a third of the recommended folate intake (121 micrograms), 4.3 mg vitamin E, and a day and half’s worth of B12. As for minerals, the conch provides 161 mg magnesium (a huge amount), 0.3 mg copper (a third of the RDA), and half the RDA for selenium.

Unfortunately, conch gets an “Avoid” rating from the Seafood Watch. There are sustainable farms popping up in the Caribbean, but for now it might be a good idea to hold off on the wild conch.

Shrimp

See this recent post.

Shellfish Allergy

Shellfish allergy is one of the most common, and this leads some to believe that shellfish may be a novel addition the the human diet to which a good chunk of people have yet to adapt. This is a mistake. First, we’ve obviously been eating shellfish for hundreds of thousands of years. They don’t run from us, they taste great, and we’ve got the shell remains to prove it. Second, beef allergy is one of the more common allergies, too (more common than you might think), but that doesn’t tell us anything about whether we should be eating it or not. It does suggest that folks who are allergic to a particular food probably shouldn’t be eating the food, and that’s it.

If you haven’t been eating shellfish on a regular or semi-regular basis, I think I’ve shown that you probably should be. We have every indication that our ancestors prized the shellfish and considered it a sacred food worthy of trekking long distances and even commiserating with mortal enemies. The nutritional data we have on the various types of shellfish confirm that these little guys are indeed powerhouses.

If the cost of shellfish seems prohibitive, understand that you don’t have to, nor should you, get the bulk of your animal nutrition from them. The fact that they are so nutrient dense means you only need a few to get the benefits. Don’t necessarily think of oysters, mussels, and their brethren as protein sources. Think of them as whole food supplements.

What’s your favorite type of shellfish? Do you eat it regularly? Do you think you’ll try adding more to your diet?
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:57 AM   #748
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KT I did not realize that you were still following. That sounds close enough.

Dr K does say that obesity is a medical condition so w that in mind, weight loss should happen w healing.

I've been eyeing the lobster tails at Albertsons. Maybe I'll pick up a couple.
Being so close to the Pacific makes for some terrific shellfish....yum.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:44 AM   #749
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I'm almost inspired to pick up some shellfish! The only one I eat is lobster and it is sooo very expensive - still great to know it's one of those treats that is actually good nutritionally.

Still playing with lowering fat levels and even tried 2 days of very small more frequent meals trying to quiet this GERD. No luck so far. Tried a couple of days with no zantac or tums and was in so much chest pain I had to go back on both throughout the day. I feel like a failure at improving my health with diet. Even my blood sugars aren't where I'd like them and if it weren't for dear Dr Bernstein they would be totally out of control. Guess I'm still a work in progress when it comes to finding my best diet options so this thread is very helpful to me and I like Dr K's emphasis on health. That's what really counts.
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Old 06-24-2011, 07:53 PM   #750
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KT- I love seafood all of it and raw oysters, yummm!! I would eat shellfish exclusively if I could afford it, it is so darn expensive! Tony developed a clam allergy that really sucks, I love clams, Maine clams are the best!!! Shrimp and scallops are my fav, $25 a pound for scallops, I could eat a whole pound, LOL
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