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Old 06-14-2011, 03:45 PM   #691
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Thanks for sharing your experience with stopping Zantac and tums Clackey. I'm going to try weaning off them and may even do a trial of adding some supplement to see if low acid is part of the problem. Meanwhile I'm decreasing fats to see if that helps. Do you eat high fat? I was at 75% fat but I'm trying to get it down to 50%. I'm also wondering if metformin and/or gastroparesis might be part of my problem. Just read on a diabetes line today that met can cause severe reflux -hmmm.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:59 PM   #692
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I do eat a high fat diet - probably 70 to 80% but I know nothing about how metformin and diabetes might play into this. I should add that I have been working on supplementing for gut health which is an obvious link. Please let me know how you are doing.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:09 PM   #693
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Hmmm...I've noticed a bit of acid reflux lately, and it had been under control for months; but I just started Metformin 2 weeks ago, so there could definitely be a connection.

I take bentonite clay for my acid reflux, and it helps wonderfully.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #694
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RE: podcasts, heh, I haven't heard any good ones lately, but I have been busy and reading on other health topics. I will post if I hear any good ones!
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:07 AM   #695
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Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
RE: podcasts, heh, I haven't heard any good ones lately, but I have been busy and reading on other health topics. I will post if I hear any good ones!
Sorry if I sounded demanding :blush: - you just have suggested the best ones so far. I will post too if I come across something I think is worthwhile.

Hope everyone is doing well!
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:36 PM   #696
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Clackley-Cathy - heh, thanks, I only took it as a compliment!

My husband had a minor surgery last week and another one today. Now he has some follow up and needs to go see a "wound care specialist" for one remaining spot on his leg that will not heal. I walked by there yesterday while he was in surgery, the department has a large sign that says they do hyperbaric treatments there. Hmm, I wonder if he gets to have that! It sounds like an adventure.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:59 PM   #697
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KT- I am sorry to hear about your hubby, I hope he gets better soon, man you got the stress on ya!!!

What are hyperbaric treatments?

I take metformin and never had reflux, but I have an iron gut so I am not good to ask the only thing I have with that is the Big D and that comes and goes at first it was like constant then it waned and now I have problems going at all. I hate taking it but I do think it helped with the weight loss, she wants to take me off it, but then I am afraid I will really quit losing, so I dont know what to think about it!
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:08 PM   #698
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Hello.

Dr. Loren Cordain does an excellent job in his rebuttal to the US News and Worlds Reports Top 20 Diets. Very much worth reading. Good for passing along to those worried about eating a Paleo diet.

Also, I found J. Stanton's blog post on the politics of anti-Paleo campaigns good food for prayerful thought. Be warned, there is some foul language in the comments after the blog post.

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Old 06-15-2011, 03:28 PM   #699
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Quite a cohesive and impressive rebuttal - only wish I had seen the report that spurred the rebuttal! Or perhaps it is better that I don't - always makes me upset to read that kind of stuff!!

Thank you Auntie Em!!

K.T., hope things are settling down for you and mostly that you have excellent medical care for your beloved! Hmmm, hyperbaric treatment - might be good ehh???
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:06 PM   #700
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I'm laughing, Cathy....because I have come to dislike negative press that makes me sad/angry.
I am extreme, though, and gave up watching the news. All my news now comes from Cobert.

Auntie Em, I really love Cordain. He's willing to do the research and stands by it w/o bending to whatever the paleo politics du jour is.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:31 PM   #701
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Auntie Em - thank you again for posting such great articles!!! Cordain rocks!!!

Bejewelme/Amber-hyperbaric treatments look intriguing! They force oxygen into the tissues by putting people in moon suits then inside oxygen tanks under pressure.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:40 AM   #702
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Auntie Em that was a good article, man I dont know how you and K keep track of all this good stuff, I am in awe of you guys, LOL Always great stuff to ponder!!!

Moon suits with oxygen huh? I bet that would make my arms heal, LOL Actually it will be 11 weeks, I have scars I knew i would but I am totally done worrying with them, I can see my muscles, and it was way worth it!!!! These scars are a reminder of a place I never want to be again!

I am not into tattoos, but I am seriously thinking of getting a small 350/ goal weight #, in roman numerals on the inside of my wrist under my watch to remind me to never get back there, and keep me on track.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:37 AM   #703
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Hi, Ladies. Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Bejewelme, I only read three blogs regularly:

Dr. Harris' Archevore,
Dr. Dobromylskyj's Hyperlipid
Dr. Deans' Evolutionary Psychiatry

Dr. Deans' has an automatic update on the side of her blog for several other blogs. If something good pops up there, I'll look at it. I ignore most of them.

There is a Carnivore forum I read occasionally, and folks there often post good links and insights. I like Tom Naughton's things sometimes, too.

I don't watch television or listen to the radio. Reading those three blogs is my idea of enjoying myself while having to be exposed to EMFs, using some electronic contraption.

KT, am sending you and your DH lots of good thoughts.

Hope you all are doing well.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:14 PM   #704
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Auntie Em- are you still working? What do you do? I picture you as a school teacher or maybe a scientist? LOL You are one smart cookie on so many subjects!!! I really enjoy you girls on here, I am so scatterbrained I cant remember what I read 5 minutes ago, LOL
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:59 PM   #705
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Hi, Bejewelme. Thanks for your kind thoughts. I only post about food, science, nutrition, metabolism and such on the forums. Sorry.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:20 PM   #706
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AuntieEm your regular blog list is identical to mine (and I added Dr Dean thanks to you!) but like you I sometimes wander to other sites for a visit. So much good stuff out there - so little time.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:56 AM   #707
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No answer to my PUFA question, so am asking again:

Has anyone here kept his/her PUFA intake to 4% of total calories, or below, for more than two years, in addition to avoiding excess fructose, as well as grains, legumes, frankenfoods, etc.? If so, can you report on any marked improvements?

Thanks very much.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:05 PM   #708
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PirateJenny, I finally found some biotin. Its 10,000 mcg. Do you think I should cut the pill in half? Do you know how long it should take to see any difference? Oh, I also found silica. I had to go to several different stores to find these. Thanks for the help.

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Old 06-17-2011, 12:07 PM   #709
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Goose, I take 5000mcg of Biotin daily. I have noticed that my hair and nails seem stronger. I can't tell if my hair is growing in more or not. Will you post what sort of results you see? All the best to you.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:12 PM   #710
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Yes, I'll let you know if I see a difference. By the way, I do avoid pufa's. The only fats I eat are, lard, butter, oilive oil, coconut oil and rarely canola oil. I also avoid fructose. I don't see any health benefit because I still eat some things with gluten,flour and oats. I think if I could stop cheating with these things I'd see better results and have less pain from arthritis in my feet.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:29 PM   #711
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Goose, going grain-free made my bones ever so much happier. Have you read Dr. Harris' blog? I sometimes call my WOE, "the happy bone diet".

My question about PUFAs has to do with the amount being less than 4% of total calories for more than two years. It takes that long for the body to rid itself of the excess.

ETA: Interesting article on drugs in brassicas, which cows eat. Good reason to grow one's own veggies, and livestock, or find a local cattle ranch.

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Old 06-17-2011, 12:36 PM   #712
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Quote:
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PirateJenny, I finally found some biotin. Its 10,000 mcg. Do you think I should cut the pill in half? Do you know how long it should take to see any difference? Oh, I also found silica. I had to go to several different stores to find these. Thanks for the help.
Hi,
I think you could start out with the whole pill. If you are deficient in biotin, the higher dose might be more helpful, at least at the start.

My pills are 5000mcg...I usually just take one a day, but sometimes I take 2/day for a couple weeks with no ill effects.

I have known a few people to get headaches and/or acne breakouts with biotin...it's pretty rare, but just want to let you know in case it affects you.

It took a good 30-60 days for me to notice less hair falling out.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:04 PM   #713
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Auntie Em, I have read his blog from time to time. My biggest problem, I love to have a few beers during the week. Maybe 3-4 a week. Other than that I'm pretty good about my grains. Unless I have a cheat meal, but I really should smarten up.

Pirate, thanks for the info. I'll keep a close eye on my face for break outs and also for headaches. I'll see how it goes for a couple of weeks and then cut the dose in half. Hopefully it will help thicken my hair again.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:27 PM   #714
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Auntie Em,

Thank you for your kind comments for my husband.

You might try posing your question at PaleoHacks. I had never heard of that until Kurt Harris shut down his comments and pointed everyone there. I don't read there so I don't have a feel for the place.

I'm not going to be a good specimen for your question because I am not concerned about eating a lot of chicken or fish.

My hair has grown in quite a bit thicker (in the past several months) since I quit eating soy-based Atkins bars and quit eating salad dressings. I really wasn't eating much in the way of real protein until I found this forum. I have fine hair, just a lot of it again. My arthritic fingers are much, much better, as well as the tendonitis. I've been playing piano for 40 years, and I especially love to play ragtime (the Maple Leaf Rag, Scott Joplin rocks), it takes a toll.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:33 PM   #715
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KT, thanks for your post. I find PaleoHacks a very mixed bag, mostly full of young men who think that their own experience applies to everyone else. Highly irritating. Sorry, no questions from me at PaleoHacks. I'll just watch the Carnivore forums for posts.

I'm so glad your hair and fingers are doing so much better. That is great news.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:10 PM   #716
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AuntieEm - I have been completely grain free for 2 years which helped with joint pain greatly but have only been keeping PUFA as low as possible for a few months. I'm hoping for improvements in my LDL as my Dr is freaking out over my very high cholesterol levels (it's familial but he doesn't accept that and wants me on statins- no thanks). I haven't noticed any real benefits with sticking to only butter, coconut oil, and natural fats in meats and egg yolk so far. I think you are way ahead of me and I 'm looking forward to hearing your results!
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:24 PM   #717
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Question: is peanut oil a considered a pufa? If not, then I have been pufa, 'almost free' for 1 yr. and 8 months with the exception of a bit of canola in the occasional commercial mayo. I am grain free and very low on the fructose, zero legumes (except some peanuts now and then) but I do use a.s. on a regular basis.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:18 AM   #718
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Cathy, peanut oil is definitely a PUFA. Canola oil stands for Canada Oil and is genetically modified rapeseed oil. Very bad stuff. Commercial mayo is usually soybean, which is another very damaging, cheap-to-produce, and thus highly promoted racket.

Here is Dr. Harris' post on Fats and Oils. It is an excellent primer.


FATS AND OILS - LIPIDS

Lipids are fatty acids or compound molecules composed of them. A fat is solid at room temperature and oils are liquid. Lipids are the key to PaNu. It is as much our misunderstanding of lipids as our misguided attachments to grains and fructose that is wreaking havoc with our health.

Saturated fat (SFA)

Saturated fats are generally solid at room temperature. Their saturation with hydrogen atoms makes them solid at room temperature as it affects the shape of the molecules as they pack together. This same saturation means they lack a reactive double bond between carbon atoms. In future posts, I will describe how this makes them less susceptible to oxidation, and therefore less likely to promote coronary disease and other diseases.

SFA does not cause heart disease or cancer and does not make you fat. To the contrary, the hormonal satiety and lack of insulin response from eating fats is the key to weight optimization and avoiding the diseases of civilization caused by hyperinsulinemia and high blood glucose levels - diabetes, metabolic syndrome, degenerative diseases like alzheimer dementia, and many of the commonest cancers.

Think of saturated fat as “anti- fructose” – they are both completely “natural”, but in a modern food abundant environment, SFA is healthy matter and fructose is evil anti-matter. This is the subject of future posts, but it involves satiety and the metabolic meaning of availability of these two food types.

MUFAs – Monounsaturated fatty acids

A monounsaturated fat (MUFA) has a single carbon- carbon double bond. MUFAs have some unique properties in the diet. Their best known source is olive oil, but they are quite abundant in animal fats.

PUFAs – Polyunsaturated fatty acids.

These are fatty acids that have multiple reactive carbon-carbon double bonds. They occur with varying chain lengths but are generally classed by where the first double bond occurs from the end of the molecule, in the Omega 6 position or the Omega 3 position, abbreviated as N-6 and N-3. Much of the biological significance of N-6 and N3 fatty acids relates to their ratio, as they are the precursors for signaling molecules called eicosanoids that affect immune function, among other things. Excess O-6s compete for an enzyme that O-3 metabolism uses as well, and in turn this affects eicosanoid ratios in the body. Both O-6 and O-3 fatty acids are more susceptible to oxidation due to their multiple unsaturated carbon-carbon double bonds, and this also has biological significance, particularly in the process of atherosclerosis.

THE PANU METHOD APPLIED TO OILS

The evolutionary principle would suggest that once we think there might be harm from a particular artificial food, like an oil mechanically extracted from a seed or a nut, we should look for evolutionary discordance or concordance - could humans have eaten it in those amounts?

The method of PaNu is to first use modern tools and reasoning to think about what foods might not be working for us. Then, we mine the past to see if that food shows evidence of evolutionary discordance.

Grains and seed oils - corn, safflower, cotton, peanut, canola, flaxseed (linseed) all fail this test, mostly due to excess N-6 PUFA content.

Step 1: We observe evidence of harm with excess N-6 consumption when we understand the enzyme pathways of eicosanoid production, competitive inhibition of N-3 elongation by excess N-6s, and epidemiologic evidence that shows coronary disease and cancer tracking industrial oil consumption. I have not fully elaborated all these data and arguments yet, but this is where the argument begins.

Step2: Humans could not have had a metabolism dominated by huge amounts of N-6's in the paleolithic period as it would have required industrial technology that did not exist. The predominance of N-6's in our diet comes from mechanical extraction from seed oils. Absent this technology, a human could never get more than a trivial fraction of the N-6s we consume in out modern industrial diets.

Step 2 explains and strengthens our understanding of Step 1 and establishes presumptive evolutionary discordance.

Conclusion: excess seed oil consumption deviates from the EM2.

PaNu suggests we prefer SFA and MUFAs , then minimize overall PUFAs with a ratio appropriate to the EM2. A ratio of N-6:N-3 close to 2:1 is desirable, which suggests complete avoidance of mechanically extracted vegetable oils high in N-6, and if necessary, compensatory supplementation with N-3s via fish or fish oil.

It seems best to limit O-6's to less than 4% of calories - I just calculated mine at 2.75%. See Stephan's post here and some of his other posts for a good discussion of this. If you are above 4% O-6 then supplementing to get to 1% O3 likely has a benefit.

I eat sardines occasionally and I eat cod and non-farmed salmon slathered in butter once a week or so, - I haven't calculated it but I suppose I am getting plenty of 03s without cod liver oil or fish pills.

If you are still getting a lot of seed oils with high O6 levels, you may well need fish oil as a compensatory supplement.

MUFAs AND OLIVE OIL

Olive oil is a bit of a politically correct fad. It has it's origins of course in the supposed mediterranean diet - of which there are several, and of which only some had any olive oil in them. The support for olive oil was the general scheme (not supported by the evidence) that SFA is bad and MUFA and PUFAs were the alternative.

When you eat animal products and have low carbohydrate intake, you are getting huge amounts of MUFA from the animal fat - check out the MUFA content in a steak or in butter and it nearly matches the sat fat. Bone marrow is the big evolutionary source of MUFAs, not cold pressed olive oil. Of course there is some oxidation going on when you cook with olive oil that will defeat the purpose, so I eat it cold for flavor, but I get plenty of MUFA without olive oil in my animal based diet.

NUTS AND NUT OILS

How about nuts? I started out a big nut eater, thinking they were healthy and natural. I've found that they are loaded with carbs, though, and they seem to disturb my gut if I eat a lot of them, due to some lectins, no doubt. After research about fatty acids, I definitely do not view them in some therapeutic way like many seem to. Indeed, I can't think of any particular reason to eat them except to add flavor and interest to salads and other food -that is how I use them.

Nut Oils? Surely they are safer and better than grass seed oils - I use walnut oil and olive for flavor sometimes. Any advantage over butter or ghee or grass fed tallow or lard?

In my opinion, no. Too many PUFAs in nut oils to prefer them to butter and animal fats. Even if not N-6 predominant, PUFA levels in general should be kept low, and nut oils are high in PUFAs.

Eating nut oils in significant quantity depends on industrial technology not available in paleolithic times. Hence, eating bottled nut oil deviates from the EM2, even if not nearly as significantly as grass seed oils.

To summarize our PaNu hierarchy of fats and oils:

1) SFA is best because it is not oxidizable.

2) MUFA is next

3) Total PUFA should be as low as possible. N3 PUFA supplements are for people with too much N-6 PUFA from seed oils.

Animal sources, preferably grass fed or pastured, are the best way to optimize your lipid intake.

Overall, the biggies for discordance remain:

1 Cereal grains (Lectins, phytates, gliadin proteins)

2 Fructose as a high % of calories in a food abundant environment (Hormonal effects)

3 High N-6 PUFA consumption (imbalanced eicosanoid production with immune dsyfunction, inflammation and cancer promotion)

4 Inadequate animal fat intake might be #5, as it is both the consequence of and much of the solution to 1-3.

My approach remains somewhat that of a finger-wagging killjoy - "don't eat that" is just not as much fun as "eat this magic pill or supplement and you'll be healthier" and I am sure that's not the way to sell the most books. It also won't help you much if you are marketing supplements or expensive drugs. If you don't already like meat, seafood, eggs, cream and butter, there is not much emotional upside to my approach. It's not really that exciting to say "Hey, guess what I don't eat!" Even were you to show up naked to a party, you simply could not be more of a social freak than to refuse bread, beer, crackers, chips, and a slice of your neighbor's kid's birthday cake, and eat your burger rolled up like a tortilla with cheddar cheese and a slice of tomato.

But, there it is. If we are not in the business of marketing or politics, we must go where the evidence leads us.
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:12 AM   #719
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Auntie Em, once again, you have given me the exact answer to what I was looking for. Thank you so much!! I wish I had had this 'under my belt' when my friend challenged me on margarine. I think I might send this link to her....
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Old 06-18-2011, 11:18 AM   #720
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Cathy, I have spent hundreds of hours reading Dr. Harris' blog, over and over. His blog answered so very many of my questions about what to avoid and why, as well as what to eat and why. Those hours were very well spent.

The subject of nutrition and metabolism is so huge, so tremendously huge, it just takes ooooodles of time reading, thinking, wondering, and going back to what one has read, and thinking through it, and all that over and over again.

Hope you are doing well.
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
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