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Old 03-22-2011, 09:22 AM   #31
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Yes, I am aware that his plan is to avoid ketosis. My blood sugar has been between 83 and 105 for the past 3 months on almost zero carb. These are fasting, 1 hour and 2 hour after meals. I am not giving this up.

I have read all the plans and take from each what I think is relevant to me.
When I considered Atkins, I discarded the gradual increase in carbs and all frankenfoods.

What I especially like about this plan is the high regard for eggs and pork. These are 2 of my favorite foods. My results won't be a good benchmark for this plan, but I don't seem to adhere to any specific plan.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:20 PM   #32
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I meant no offense Ron, just trying to clarify.

Now, back to some of the confusing points of this plan: I was reviewing the forum on the American site and it is, in fact, this Stan Popis who seems to be causing much of it.

He says that some items are severly restricted (grains, sugar) but otherwise up to the individual where carbs come from. Then he goes on to list lc vegies.
This goes against Dr K's anti fiber for intestinal healing stance. As we know 20g lc vegies can be quite a lot.

Then he discussed grams of carb and states that some will need to go as low as 20 for weight loss. For most that would mean ketosis, which also is against Dr K's teaching.

Now I understand that some (maybe me) cannot eat potatoes but there are other less fibrous options.

I spent years following Barry Groves but it seemed that fat was giving me indigestion. Now I think that certain fats like tallow is the culprit. Butter is fine.

So today I made a soup; Sauteed garlic, chopped mushrooms in butter. Added chopped asparagus and stock. When vegies were soft, added a hunk of brie then pureed w a stick blender. Tempered an egg yolk and whisked it it. Really good.
I had the asparagus on hand.

Just trying to see if I can reach the four minimum yolks per day. Might have to make egg nog later....
Not being a big egg eater makes it more difficult. I can't bear HBE's unless in salad or something. It's not that I don't like eggs but they stimulate my gag reflex. This happened after following lc for quite a while.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:28 PM   #33
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Clackley--I am glad you are enjoying the thread!

CalRon and Jem51,

On the carbs, I do wonder about eating so much at once triggering blood sugar responses. I am not eating a whole potato at dinner but spreading it out, mixing with butter, and eating egg casserole first to prevent the rush. The extra energy I am getting I think helps me burn it off.

This is 20 carbs more than Bernstein. Certainly, I will cut back if I need to.

I don't want to encourage anyone to do the wrong thing regarding managing diabetes, so please take care and do the right thing for you.

Jem51 - the soup sounds great!!!
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:07 PM   #34
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It makes sense to spread it throughout the day even if it's a small amt. Also that is probably the reason that some peop are getting the carbs from other sources.

I'll be interested to see how it goes for you.

Groves is much easier for me but that's probably because he isn't quite as anti produce, although, very much antifiber so grain fiber and large amt vegies are not his thing.

Also I found it very hard to go above 65% w/o pushing it and I really hate to have to think about it....so I let it just fall in line naturally, eating full fat dairy and such.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:40 PM   #35
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:20 AM   #36
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Subscribing, great thread!!!
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:54 AM   #37
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Progress report: Day 4

Starting weight 2-21: 230
Today's weight 2-24: 227

I was worried about the potatoes, but I have had no carb cravings. It's funny, they taste like dirt to me now after not having them for so long.

Last night, I was unusually hungry. Adapting to lower protein and the accompanying reduction in appetite is supposed to happen naturally but takes time. I've been trying to force it. Well, last night, appetite won out, I ate more last night, salty things even like Kerrygold cheese and pork rinds, yet my weight was still down this morning.

I'm still up from two pounds from my recent low of 225, which I achieved on weeks of eating an 85% fat and very low carb diet, but backfired when I became so lethargic I had to eat more protein and gained up to 230 within a week of eating LC normally as I always had. I am really looking to crack 222 pounds, I really want to hit a 90 pound weight loss. I just want to start losing weight and keep it going, really.

I am very encouraged here because I feel so good! I am not lethargic at all. In fact, I am going to do some yard work today.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:38 AM   #38
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Wow KT, this is exciting!! Can't wait to see how things are in a week or 2. You may get some company on this woe if it is making the weight loss work. I am afraid of the carbs though.....I have proven to have very little control if I go down that path....
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:31 PM   #39
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If you don't mind, what do your menu's look like?
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:32 PM   #40
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Way to go KT 3 lb in 3 days is awesome cant wait to see how this goes
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:08 PM   #41
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OK, here is what I am eating. I don't expect to keep up with dropping a pound a day. My weight goes all over the place and I am a slow loser.

I should be eating organ meats, but I won't be doing that.

So far, I eat mostly egg casserole:

12 whole eggs
12 egg yolks (whites down the drain!)
shredded dutch gouda (I shred it myself, maybe 3/4 cup)
4 or 5 links Applegate Farms sausage
1/4 cup Kerrygold butter

Bake at 350 for 20 minutes, stir, bake another 10 min, melt 1/4 cup more cheese on top

I haven't made any soup yet, but I will.

I use sweetener, which Kwasniewski doesn't recommend. My version of Optimal Shake. It is good without whey!

3 - 4 raw egg yolks
1 1/2 cups unsweetened vanilla almond milk
1 level teaspoon cocoa powder
1 heaping teaspoon instant coffee
3 tablespoons heavy whipping cream
blend of stevita brand stevia, erythritol, and EZ-Sweetz drops to taste
blend in vitamix with ice (sometimes I add 2 tablespoons blueberries)


Potatoes (limit one per day, a little smaller than my fist before cooking):

thin slices with skins on, bake with butter

or

peel, boil, mash, add butter and nusalt (not too well done, very lumpy, not blended well either - I don't want them super high-glycemic)

Snacks:

kerrygold cheese
pork rinds
sometimes dark meat chicken or chicken wings
knox gelatin with cream and davinci's
a few tiny Beeler's L'il Bites uncured smoked sausages (little hot dogs)


I don't enter my food into any programs so I can't tell you calories. I already know I generally eat 1200 to 1800 per day from times I have measured, which varies widely I know. I believe I have been eating the lower end of this range.

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Old 03-24-2011, 10:30 PM   #42
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Congratulations on the pounds lost. I'm glad you started this thread and look forward to following your progress.

Your egg casserole looks good. Do you just beat the eggs and yolks together, precook the sausage and then mix everything up before baking. How many servings does it make.

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Old 03-24-2011, 11:25 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patlaf View Post
Congratulations on the pounds lost. I'm glad you started this thread and look forward to following your progress.

Your egg casserole looks good. Do you just beat the eggs and yolks together, precook the sausage and then mix everything up before baking. How many servings does it make.

Pat
Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying the thread. All of this could be done by hand of course....

I put the vitamix on a low setting to blend the eggs (I forgot to say I use omega3 eggs).

Applegate Farms sausage comes pre-cooked; I just warm it up with the butter and put it in the cuisinart to chop it.

Then I just put it all in a pyrex baking dish with the cheese and bake.

Servings just depend on your appetite. Kwasniewski says there is no calorie counting; the diet will bring you into equalibrium naturally. I think I usually scoop out about 1/8th of the casserole, more or less depending on how hungry I am. I don't cut it into pieces, so the family can decide how much they each want.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:03 AM   #44
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On 3/10, the first day corned beef was on sale, I weighed 175.

I bought seven roasts and ate two of them, once with sauerkraut. The sodium overload caused water retention and I weiged 178 on 3/13.

I then switched to much lower protein based on something Stargazey wrote on her blog. When I saw this thread on 3/21 I incorporated 2 eggs plus 2 yolks daily.

I've dropped to 173, but more importantly, I've lost half an inch in waist size.

Previously, no amount of zero carb had budged me.

I will some day soon incorporate dome carbs into my diet, perhaps even potatoes.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:15 AM   #45
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I'm glad you started this.

When I first started EFGT I was eating whole milk yogurt w plenty of flax meal. After a while that didn't go over well so I switched to smoothies. The base is plain yogurt (or buttermilk, homemade) and cream cheese. I also would add in some melted CO.

I actually do better w some sweet taste in my eating and tend to find it tedious w/o. Not necessarily everyday but whenever.
I have a meter and check BG so know what raises and stevia and even erythritol are ok.

Right now I am into the cheese pancake but it doesn't need sweetener. I just slather it w butter.

Still not getting 4 yolks daily but at least 2 which is an improvement over none.
I am a soup eater and have found that tempering in a yolk works in most any soup.
I actully tempered one into hot cocoa and it was great.

I have not eaten any raw vegies which is BIG for me and my tummy is better.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:28 PM   #46
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I am still holding at 227 this morning. I am sore all over from so much yard work a couple of days ago - I had so much energy I filled six 33 gallon yard scrap bags with branches and bush trimmings! I climbed a latter several times to get high branches. I just can't believe how good I feel after being so lethargic.

CalRon - wow, that is really good news on dropping pounds and 1/2 inch off your waist! I am a big believer in upping nutrition and eating less of what our bodies don't need. It is interesting how you have learned this information to decrease protein from a couple of sources, applied it, and obtained a payoff so quickly! I have been stocking up on eggs.

Jem51 - that is very creative; I had not thought of an egg yolk into hot cocoa! It makes sense that it would be good--they sure are in a cold chocolate shake. Interesting, isn't it, the difference with no raw produce? I am so comfortable with a happier tummy.

Thank you for your interest, comments, and support!
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:11 PM   #47
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Key Tones,

You mentioned previously that Dr. K reccommended liver, but that you weren't going to add it.

I eat liver about once a week, alternating chicken livers and beef liver.

I would be interested in a brief recap of what he has to say about this.
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:46 PM   #48
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Key Tones,

You mentioned previously that Dr. K reccommended liver, but that you weren't going to add it.

I eat liver about once a week, alternating chicken livers and beef liver.

I would be interested in a brief recap of what he has to say about this.
Thamks.
Ron,

Here is what he says under "What should be eaten" on liver. Please keep in mind first place = eggs, second place = dairy (high-fat as in butter, cheese, cream), third place comes meat.

From p. 37:

In third place comes meat. The best is giblets, meaning meat from an animal's organs, like heart, liver, brains, kidneys, and even blood. Lean meat, which is muscle, is less valuable because it contains mostly protein and therefore is of fairly one-sided use to our body and requires a fairly large amount of supplementary fat.

Under Protein is Life, p. 42

Protein equals life. The quality of life is proportional to the quality of protein. For humans, protein of animal origin has the highest nutritional value. Furthermore, not all animal proteins are equally valuable to a person.

It is best to eat proteins of highest biological value since this way less protein is needed than if we were eating lower quality protein. By eating less protein our organisms spend less energy on protein conversion, process less of it into urea, and lose less hydrogen when the urea is urinated out.

The whites of chicken eggs are internationally recognized as the standard for protein of the highest value....(I'll skip this long section on eggs, I just wanted to include this sentence to show that he thinks the whites are valuable too should anyone not think so...most dishes should be egg-based he says--three to five eggs per day should be eaten daily, on average).

Giblets are a particularly valuable source of protein. The biological value of giblets and processed meats made of animal organs is considerably higher than the value of steak, joints, and lean ham.

OK, I have to post then edit to add more in case you're reading right now...

...sorry, we had to reboot the network. To continue:

All kinds of sausages, made from headcheese, are valuable, as are specialties made from animal guts: pates, jowl, liverwurst and bloodwurst. For optimal eaters, those products are the most nutrient-rich, and so actually do taste best to them.

Bloodwurts contains 10 to 12% carbohydrates and high-value protein from its blood and fats. It is best to eat it hot, with a large quantity of fat, fried in melted lard or bacon fat.
=====

Ron, I haven't seen anything about how often to eat liver (or gosh, gizzard and guts), but I do note that he emphasizes to eat mostly eggs, then dairy, then this category of meats in which gizzards are more valuable.

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Old 03-26-2011, 03:13 PM   #49
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Oh, about that liver; I got the idea from a Mark Sisson recipe so made up a meatloaf of 1/4# liver and 1# ground beef.
I ate it the first night but after about 5 bites, it was gagging me.
So it is now dog food.

I used to make it stroganoff style and that seems to be okay. I also made pate a few times which is good. But no matter what, I can't consume much.
I will try the lemon solution soak next time....will have to google or go to foodnetwork...

I love tongue!! Grew up eating it since it was cheap way back then.
I notice that the Mexican meat section has pork tongue which is cheaper than beef.
I've also purchased it cooked in the hot food section of Mexican grocery stores and at a few mexican taco shops. La lingua!!
If you haven't had it, let me just say, that is is so worth it. It is not so organ like.

I cooked some stuff in advance since this is my weekend on call.
I made Bear's chicken and a pumpkin bake. I also keep yogurt on hand since I can just scoop some out as I go out the door.

If you're not familiar w Bear's Chicken....I believe it's equal parts butter and cream cheese mixed together w whatever seasoning you desire then you release the skin on the chicken and pack the mixture under. Bake as usual.

I just use cream cheese since the butter just melts into the bottom of the pan.
But w just cream cheese, it stays in place and becomes this lovely, creamy, saucy....yum.
I added chopped garlic last night.
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:09 PM   #50
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Jem51, I think I would need to put liver in capsules to swallow. I wish I liked it. It is good to read your recipes and ideas; I may find something someday I can eat along these lines.

You know, something is happening to my skin. It is probably too early to tell, but my gosh, my skin seems smoother. The dry parts on my hands are disappearing and somehow my face is less oily (confused, I thought it would become more so?).

I just found out Kwasniewski's diet has been called the most radical of all the low carb diets. I found htis article on Peter's Hyperlipid blog, but went to the source to be sure. Here it is:

Praise the lard - Chicago Tribune
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:42 PM   #51
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Thank you for the information.

I grew up with beef liver once a week and I enjoy it. In my fat days I tried fried chicken livers at Pioneer Chicken and loved them. The were heavily breaded so that had to stop. I've gotten chicken livers and dipped them in egg and parmisan cheese and bake. Then I saute to make the coating crisp.

I believe it was an article by Chris Masterjohn about curing fatty liver where he reccommended liver once a week. Since I was a heavy drinker most of my life and once sported a 42" belly I feel I have fatty liver.

I've seen the bears chicken recipe but have never tried it. If I'm going to incorporate dairy into my diet, this will be a painless way.

I also will try the pork tongue. I like pork every other way so I'll probably like that. Lots of Mexican stores in So Cal.
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:36 AM   #52
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Interesting article!

I was thinking that eggs benedict would fit well into this diet. Poached eggs on a slab of ham, on an oopsie (egg and cream cheese) and the hollandaise sauce which is yolk, butter and a dash of lemon juice. What do you think?
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:09 AM   #53
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Yes, hollandaise is on my list of things to make thes week.

Ron, that's where I had my first pork tongue from the hot deli section....Woodland Hills or Van Nuys? Food like that makes me want to come back.

I started having ketosis mouth yesterday afternoon. There was a time when that was okay but I really don't like any of the side effects now.

I started out w sides of eggs and sausage from McD's (I'm working), had some pumpkin bake w whipped cream in the aft, then Bears chicken for dinner which I didn't finish because I was called out. When I got back home I ate a carrot dipped in dressing.
Morning and early aft, I had a short whole milk latte.
Amazing that it was not enough carb to keep ketosis away. But added up, it is not so much.
Not having carbs in starch makes a huge difference....I'm learnin. Also, again, I see that dividing it up is preferable.
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:40 AM   #54
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Ron, amazing, you are so healthy now, you look so great, like someone that has been thin and exercising their whole life.

Clackley - eggs benedict sounds smashing. I must do this! I'm vacationing mid-week, I will keep my eyes peeled for this in restaurants!

Jem51 - what a delicious way to up the fat in chicken! I hadn't heard of bears chicken, thank you!
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:31 PM   #55
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OK KT I found this thread, now I am very interested in reading more about this diet.
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:32 PM   #56
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Bejewelme,

Good to see you!

Clackley - I understand what Kwasniewski means by the dangers of mixing fuels. He attributes various diets to causing disease. Interestingly enough, he notes that the Japanese diet (high starch, low fat) is the second best dietary approach but is not recommended because cancer still occurs. He warns that if one eats starch, one MUST eat low fat. If one eats high fat, starch must be low in the diet. One cannot create their own mix of eating fat and starches without incurring diesease.

His book is very much about how diet affects health and causes disease states. I gasped out loud at this, because it describes my husband's side of the family:

Big eaters with a sweet tooth, and therefore consumers of a bit of low-value protein and a very lot of sugars, are often overweight; some suffer from a set of illnesses known as "autoaggresive" ones. These people suffer from arteriosclerosis, varicose veins, ulcerous calves, high blood pressure, liver steatosis, heart attacks, and brain hemmorages. Ruptures and appendicitis are sometimes noted. In later life, it is common for them to suffer from osteoporosis. People who eat this way reach maturity faster and menopause comes earlier to women. Their life-spans are short. For the most part, they are poor.

As if that were not enough, they can also suffer from hypofunction of the thyroid, some cancers, liver lithiasis (stones), protein diathesis, adn allergic sicknesses (including bronchial asthma). Their skin is ofteh affected; very often they have unsightly complexion and seborrhea (a glandular problem that causes oily skin), some get psoriasis ("itchy skin" disease). Finally, they are also more prone than others to get infectious sicknesses and diseases because their resistance is low.

People with sclerosis also come from this group (I wonder if he means MS?). This is now an ailment that is very widespread. It now affects not only seniors but also younger and younger adults and even children.

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Old 03-27-2011, 07:05 PM   #57
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KT- you know I just had my bloodwork done, I eat red meat, bacon, eggs, and my cholesterol was 129 the doctor was shocked it was never high but it went down 50 points from last year when it was 179, she was like what are you doing? I said eating bacon and liver, and red meat, as long as the carbs and crap are not thrown in you can really lower your cholesterol I guess, I mean I only have my blood work to go by, and my blood sugar was all normal.

Sounds like a plan that combines a little of all of these plans, the primal diet or paleo, Atkins and this all similar I agree that nitrates are not good I look for the nitrate free bacon that Trader Joes has, you had me so curious I have been googling all night, LOL
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:58 PM   #58
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Bejewelme - Heh, it's funny how the doctors believe this sort of food is going to make one keel over from a heart attack!

Yes, Kwasniewski is rather paleo!

I understand Kwasniewski believes the Atkin's diet is good for weight loss, but he believes it is too high in protein. I really can't remember if Atkins specifies how much protein to eat, however. I don't remember any specific guidelines on this.

I'm not sure how Kwasniewski came up with the diet, other than he was steered by his belief in eating only food most dense in nutrition as well as eating foods that address the regeneration of cells in our bodies plus observations about disease states (and there are his animal experiments).

I have read other interesting write ups of the paleo diet which are in line with this. I think it was Harris on PaNu discussing hunter-gatherers--they naturally gravitate toward the foods with highest nutritional value and least poisonous attributes. This means animal foods first, because plants have defenses to try deter insects and animals making them harder to digest (ranging on the spectrum of digestible to discomfort in digesting to causing more severe digestive upsets to outright poisonous effects). Hunter/gatherers naturally will select the food starting with the animal foods and edible plants and only go down that path when the ideal foods are not available. You gotta love Kurt Harris - he says to "eat foods that are defenseless when dead." I agree - lechtins, phytic acid, glutens - avoid!

I'm glad you're enjoying the thread! I am always looking for healthier approaches. I couldn't resist looking into something called "Optimal!"

Last edited by Key Tones; 03-28-2011 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:58 AM   #59
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Ron:
We have a local farmers market that makes broasted chicken that is to die for, but I cant eat it cause they dip it in flour. But they make chicken livers dipped in flour, so now I ask them to not dip the livers, so they sprinkle them with salt, pepper, and garlic powder and fry in peanut oil, OMG I could eat 4 pounds of them they are so good. Cooking regular beef liver freaks me out, my Gram is 89 and I only eat her liver, LOL I have to remind her no flour!!! Butter, bacon and liver what is more delish? I never have any other liver lovers. LOL

Eggs Benedict yummo, that is my all time favorite, I got one of those microwave egg poachers it is so much easier than doing them the old fashioned way with the boiling water and vinegar, so easy to make on Canadian bacon and I buy the hollandaise already made in the jar, I think it is by Reece? And spoon that on, I can have eggs Benedict any time in under 5 minutes and that fills you for hours!
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:09 PM   #60
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Today I scored chicken backs/necks for .49 and there was a ton of meat, skin and fat.
I decided to render the fat and fried up the skin and ate that along w a little thigh meat.
The rest is in the stock pot and the house smells great.

So my fat is pretty high for the day and I don't seem to be having any ill effects such as heartburn, repeating, etc.
Now if I add vegetation, it'll be another story.
So it'll have to be a meat/fat only meal....I'll add a glass of wine in a bit.

Tonight I'm planning Cauli pizza crust/bread sticks. I've never made this recipe that everyone raves about.
I bought a hunk of whole milk mottz so.....

I bought a few potatoes so am going to try small amts. Maybe diced up in soup.
I make a quick soup w a stock and sour cream base. The usual ingreds are spicy sausage and cauli or broccoli. Thought this might be a good trial run.

So, KT, it's been what? almost a week? Whaddya think?

It is easy, I must say.

Didn't think I'd be giving Dr K another try but I keep being drawn to him.....such a smart guy.
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