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Old 05-12-2011, 12:22 AM   #481
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Ah, I missed Shunsweet - Hi there. Sorry about that, I was posting and cooking and bolted out the door to go shopping. I have noticed an odd numbing sensation when I eat coconut oil, I presume this is the salicylates at work. I am able to tolerate a tablespoon or two per day now.

Jem51 - I didn't realize you're an RN, that is so cool! I am interested in how you do on the more refined coconut oil.

PirateJenny - don't be disheartened. I know how much it means to have a doc behind you and helping you, but it is really rare.

Your doc's advice is an interesting combination of ignorance and brilliance. Here's why.

Gorillas evolved in the forest, and have adapted to eating foilage and fruit with a very large and long colon to house the bacteria required to digest that sort of diet. While we are primates, we humans don't have the guts, essentially, to do that.

Heh, take a look at Furman. He has that anemic, grey-skinned, protein-starved look, don't you think? I saw him on PBS once; he does not look healthy.

Anyway, here is the brilliance in what your doc said. I recently read that 58% of groilla calories come from short-chain fats released in the colon by all that via bacterial fermentation of the plant fiber. As a result, the diet the gorillas eat actually breaks down into:

16% carbs
20% protein
62% saturated and monounsaturated fats
2% polyunsaturated fats

Don't you love it? I am reading "The Perfect Health Diet" by Jaminet(s) that I think the Healthy Skeptic referred to in his blog. This gorilla story was in the book, and they referenced an October 1997 Journal of Nutrition article for this information, which I didn't look at.

I'm not saying this book is for everyone, they generally recommend 100 carbs, 50 for diabetics (if you are diabetic, I highly recommend going with Dr. Bernstein's 30 carb plan). There was a time when I would have tossed this book on the pile when I hit the 100 carb recommendation, but this book is so good. I don't want to exceed 50 carbs, and I am mulling over moving it back down to 30.

I love to read (or scan) everything I can get my hands on, and I have so little time. This one is a fascinating book, the best one I've purchased in a long time, meaning that I like the way the information is presented, I am able to absorb it well. I am most interested in how to choose food to target health concerns, which is why I bought the book.

Their protein recommendations are general, on the lower end of the scale, minimum 46 grams for women and 56 grams for men, but this is in light of having sufficient carbs in the diet. If carbs are low, protein needs go much higher in order to convert protein to glucose. They are not specific as to what exactly the protein needs are if one is only on 50 grams of carbohydrates, such as a diabetic trying to follow their plan. Perhaps I missed it, I do skim and jump around, and I am not done with the book yet.

Anyway, back to the doc. It sounds like yours might not cooperate anyway, but when I want more time with my doc, I schedule an annual physical, then I refuse to get undressed. So, he can't waste his time feeling me up or whatever, he just sits there answering my questions because it is a longer appointment (we both know this), and I get to have lots of blood tests because it is my annual physical and the insurance will then pay for it. It is only once per year.

I see a gynocologist as well; it doesn't bother me to do the gown thing for her.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:29 AM   #482
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Glad to have this info

Very happy to have found this Forum. Low Carb dieting is like art, many different ways of doing it all with the same goal.

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Old 05-12-2011, 12:56 AM   #483
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Hello 97!


Heh, I forgot - my family is going to wonder why there are two pairs of pliers in the dishwasher! Heh. I can't wait to break some chicken bones in the stock broth!!!
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:29 AM   #484
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Ron and KT, thanks for the reports on fat intake.

I have thought for many years that being overweight is a nutrient deficiency--that we need something and just aren't getting it. I ran across a very interesting blog that addresses this very issue. That name of the blog is Fat Fiction: Fat, lies and measuring tape. It is written by a man in the UK. He addresses some very interesting things. I've only read a part of his blog, but it seems to fit with the OD and Dr. K.

I have had the feeling that the meat, the fat, the cholesterol and the avoidance of the NADs, nightshades, and the things which trigger allergic symptoms, at Dr. K's ratios, is healing a great deal. I started eating this way to get healthier, not primarily for weight control. I initially gained a few pounds, and had the feeling that I needed to keep eating the greater amounts of meat and fat to heal. I agree with Dr. B's law of small numbers, Dr. Harris' recommendations, and Dr. Deans' emphasis on fish and seaweed. Keeping the evolutionary food plan, with low FODMAPs, low oxalates, and medium salicylates, has improved my health, and I've noticed that my body composition has been steadily improving. I'm getting muscle definition and tone, and I haven't changed my exercise much. I don't do anything that folks say burn calories. (I walk at old-folks' speed, jump on a rebounder, do senior yoga, Callanetics, gardening, and misc. other things suitable for older ladies.)

I hope this gives a bit of encouragement to those who are wondering how long it will take for all this to show good results.

I find I naturally stay in the 1.5-2.5F to 1P, though it would be easy to eat too much fat. The animal fats are healing, but, for me, they also can trigger that "eat for emotional comfort thing". I find it helps to get egg yolks each day, the CLO in the morning if I'm not having fish for breakfast, and offal thrice a week. I keep adjusting things as I find out more.

---

Best wishes to all.
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KT, what size pliers are you using?
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:02 AM   #485
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I've been resisting the coconut-oil-in-coffee thing for YEARS, and today it finally occurred to me that I could still put a little cream in it. DERR! And, yum!!! Also, my lips are well-moisturized!

I had a can of sardines for breakfast. The silvery skin freaks me out a little, but I thought...is there any reason I can't fix this up like tuna salad? So I mashed 'em and added mayo, onion, pickle, and a little of the herring in sour cream I bought a while back as a treat. The herring is a little too sweet and does not taste very fishy...but the two together really balanced each other out!

Today is gorgeous & tomorrow is supposed to be sunny, too...but after that, seven days of rain!!! So I think I'm going to go for a walk and really enjoy the weather, to top off my oily morning!

Thanks for the gorilla information/ratios--very interesting!
As was The "Perfect Health Diet"...inspired the sardine breakfast!

After the whoosh I mentioned a while back, my weight started climbing again to 297-298...but today after TOM, I'm suddenly at 294 again!

I hope everyone has a lovely day!
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:20 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
Hey guys...I'm so disheartened, frustrated, and tired. I've been trying not to cry for the last 7 hours or so!

I went to a new doctor today & I was actually looking forward to the visit! I prepared so carefully; wrote a list of questions & concerns, wrote down the tests I wanted to ask for, even brought in "Why We Get Fat", "The Diabetes Solution", and "The Rosedale Diet" to show him that I've really been trying to educate myself. I ended up, as I often do at the doctor's, too intimidated & angry to get the information I needed.

I wish visiting the doc was like visiting a therapist, where you actually have an hour scheduled & they're supposed to listen to you! Not interrupt you & get angry when you ask them to explain their decisions.
Jenny, many hugs, hope you are feeling better. Visiting doctors is so discouraging...I have extreme doctor and hospital phobia to begin with, so I avoid them like the plague... Every time I've been to the doctor in the past few years I have been looked at as if I was less of a person for letting myself go, so I totally understand how a visit to one may depress and upset you

I hope you find a physician that is better for you.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:21 AM   #487
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Very happy to have found this Forum. Low Carb dieting is like art, many different ways of doing it all with the same goal.

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and wishing you lots of success on your LC journey, 97!
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:26 AM   #488
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KT, regarding the hives, a funny story....I used to have them for 6 years, some of them would stick around for weeks. It was uncomfortable and embarrassing. Nothing but steroid cream would help get them out of one location, quickly to reappear in another. So frustrating!

Then I discovered I was allergic to PPD, and ingredient in dark-colored hair dye. Stopped coloring my hair, and for the first time in 6 years, the hives disappeared. I've been hair color-free for 1.5 years, and, knock on wood, not a single hive of flare.

I am not saying yours are due to the same, but worth checking if you color your hair.

Best of luck to your husband. So glad he is getting help.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:02 AM   #489
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Hi All!

Auntie Em-Thanks for the great link to the blog on nutrional deficiency. I didn't read through the whole thing either but i have bookmarked it and will put in some more time with it. Yes, i think what he is saying does fit in with what Dr. K and the OD suggests, as well as with what Taubes concludes on the vicious cycle of insulin resistance. I truly think the healing that i have experienced in the last six months is due to my body finally getting the nutrients it has been screaming for. Removing the carbohydrates and adding the fats is allowing my body to access what goes in...Yes, i can agree obesity is an effect of malnutrition. I remember over the years thinking i was immune to vitamins and supplements because i never would experience any effect from them. Now, that i have eliminated the PUFAs and eat the bulk of my calories in saturated fat, my body readily absorbs and i can feel the effect of different nutrients pretty readily. I discovered that i can't eat ginger, or cod liver oil (but fish oil from salmon is ok), CoQ-10 thickens my blood and lowers my INR, and my usual dose of magnesium and Vitamin C are fine when i also eat a little sauerkraut or string beans or something- but if i eat no veges at all (which is the case many days), then i will have a loose bowel effect. I found i can tell from my sinuses the next day if i ate some cheese or some HWC, or by my knees if there was some wheat or AS in my diet. It is still amazing to me all the symptoms and condiitons and out right diseases that are driven by what we eat. I too am on the healing plan and figure it will probably take at least a couple of years to correct the damage done from years of high carb low living. Btw- your regime sounds awesome! Good grief!- Oh, I just "walk at old-folks' speed, jump on a rebounder, do senior yoga, Callanetics, gardening, and misc. other things suitable for older ladies..." ! Love it! I think i broke a sweat just reading that!

PirateJenny- I am glad to hear of your great morning and moist lips! I resisted CO in my coffee too then tried it and loved it. I find it is great in tea too. I am sorry about your experience in the doctor. I remember times when i was literally in tears after a visit. I think KeyTones suggestions were strong and i'm going to try them myself- especially the not getting undressed part. It is pointless. And the 20 minute appointment time blocks that doctors are operating within today makes it clear that there is no intention to actually listen to you, and assess your concerns from a wholistic viewpoint. I stopped even expecting that from my HMO. The beauty is that you DO have a wealth of information and ARE making informed, sustainable changes in your diet- so you are waaay ahead of the game right there. I need my doctor to authorize as many tests as i can get out of him, assist me if i am having some acute problem, and that's pretty much it. I don't expect that my doctor is going to be able to map out a meaningful plan for me to impact my overall health profile via dietary and lifestyle changes. Maybe if i could afford some other health insurance or change and change and change until i found that rare gem doc that is more into proscriptions (as Kurt Harris says- the things you should NOT do) than prescriptions... but for now, i am having to trust that the core of what i understand will not be coming from my doctor. And that is a sad statement on the status of the American health care model. Hang in there.

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Old 05-12-2011, 12:07 PM   #490
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Jem - Thanks for the CO info. Think I must have a sensitivity to the EVCO as I'm even getting some hives that I think are from it and that weird tingly feeling in my mouth and throat. It went in the trash and I'll stick with the refined.

Pirate Jenny - So sorry to hear of your bad experience at the Dr. They can be so very insensitive and judgemental (I'm an RN and work with tons of Dr daily. Some are great!). I just use my Dr to order my labs, prescribe any drugs I need, and bounce ideas off. I agree with Julie we must do the rest for ourselves and I spend countless hours researching and learning - used to be about my patient's medical conditions but since I've been dx with diabetes I've become very interested in nutrition and its role in health. That's why I love this thread!

Auntie Em - I have faithfully been logging every mouthful of food into ****** for 2 years as part of my search for health. My fats average 70%, protein 25%, carbs 5%. I don't know how this fits with DrK's ratios or weight loss. I am skinny, always have been, but do have more energy since increasing fats and following Berstein's diet. I'm an old grandma too and my exercise is limited to lots of walking with weights. My concern is too eat for best bg control, optimal health, and avoid all my allergens ( which seem to increase daily - sigh). My diabetes seems to be the LADA type but I have some beta cell function left so am doing pretty well with diet and exercise. Don't have the gumption for seafood or organ meats, can't do any grains/legumes/nightshades, allergic to peanuts and soy, veggies hurt my stomach WTH! Guess I'll be living on meat, egg, dairy, almond flour, and glucomann. It's OK. I'm gradually structuring a diet that works and I thank everyone for so generously sharing their research and experiences. It all adds pieces to the puzzle.

Hey look at me. Now I'm getting too chatty and long winded! Perhaps I'm finally coming out of lurkdom!
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Old 05-12-2011, 01:56 PM   #491
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All - I'll write more later, I just don't want to forget to do this -

PirateJenny - Jimmy Moore keeps a list of low carb doctors. His post is dated "Let The List of Low-Carb Doctors Begin." I put my doctor up there, I hope he doesn't mind.
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:50 AM   #492
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Auntie Em - wow, this is a great blog! I'm up past my bedtime reading it! Thank you!

Weight loss, gallstones and the obesity crisis

Eliza - I can't remember the last time I dyed my hair. I am sensitive to a lot of chemicals, I am sure hair dye is full of them. Even newspapers bother me.
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:48 AM   #493
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KT, I'm glad you like that blog. I was hoping it might be of use. Yes, hair dye has all sorts of poisons in it. I just live with grey hair. I avoid newspapers and magazines, too. The chemical finishes on new clothes and fabrics are also problematic. I also avoid the soap and candle aisles in stores. No fragrances or store-bought cleaners for me, as well.

Julie, thanks for your kind thoughts. I, too, have found that eliminating PUFAs was key to feeling better. Am hoping that after the two years or so, which is said to be necessary for the body to balance after eliminating them, that I will notice even more improvements. My exercise really isn't vigorous. I'm just persistent about doing a few things each day.

Shunsweets, it's nice having you post! I, too, find that the older I get, the more the allergic reactions appear. It's a puzzle, as I am taking ever better care of myself. I, too, read and read, and adjust this or that as I find out things. Thank goodness for antihistamines and a low histamine diet. I don't track the percentages currently, but I do keep carbs at 20-30 total g/d, and protein at 50-75g/d. Fat grams run 100-150 a day. I don't fret if I go over on the protein occasionally, but am Dr.-B-strict about the CHO. I'm glad the glucomann helps you. Hooray for Dr. B!

I live on: beef, including liver and brains, fish, egg yolks, butter, cream, bit of cheese, herbs, a few chicken livers, herbs, and Dr. B's approved fruits: lemons, cucumbers, olives. (I leave out the avocado due to PUFA). A vegetable sometimes, raw turnips are okay. Celery cooked or the inner parts raw. The rare parsnip. Brassica are all right in small doses. I avoid oxalates.

I stopped eating almond butter and using almond meal due to phytates and PUFAs. I feel better since leaving out the almond things.

Am growing some things. Will see how the home-grown things do.

I find vegetables problematic, too. Fiber, phytotoxins, antinutrients, etc.

Jenny and Eliza, hope you are doing well.

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Old 05-13-2011, 10:00 AM   #494
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Good morning, everyone! It's still morning for a few more minutes

Thanks, Auntie Em, for sharing your food list.
For the past few days, I've been meaning to ask if anyone felt like sharing their menus?
On a new thread, perhaps?

My "problem" lately has been:
I'm not that hungry, and I don't know what to eat!!!

Most of my life, when I got hungry, I got hungry for something specific. Not necessarily carby or junky; but I'd "be in the mood for" eggplant, or salad, or cheese, or Mexican food...KWIM?

Now that I'm limiting my protein, I'm finding it harder to just grab something to eat.
It's no problem for me to be hungry for a few hours...I don't freak out & cheat (which would be easy to do; I'm literally surrounded by beans, bread, potato chips, & chocolate, b/c my son is a non-LC vegetarian; and it's impossible to go more than 2 miles in NJ without tripping over a deli, bagel place, or pizzeria)...

BUT I just don't know what to eat without going over my protein allowance!
For the first few months of LC-ing, I used to make a big bowl of chicken or tuna salad every few days, and snack on that, or beef jerky, nuts & cheese.

When I go to the store, I often pass over the chicken, pork chops & steak now because I'm thinking...too much protein!

It's OK, I'm not bored; I'm eating a lot of eggs, which are cheaper than steak; and simple salads, because I can pour on some olive oil and shred in some cheese to get a good serving of fat. But I would love if anyone wanted to share their menus!

Also, I've seen many formulas to figure out how much protein a person needs in a day. But does anyone know how many grams of protein a person can "use" per meal, so that there's no excess to turn into glucose? I try to keep it around 20-25g, and leave 3-5 hours between meals & snacks.
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:39 AM   #495
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PirateJenny,

In the current book I am reading, the Perfect Health Diet, they do recommend a lower protein but caution that it works only with adequate nutritious carbohydrates. I can't remember the precise recommendations for women, but it was something like 200-ish calories in protein becomes something like 400-ish calories if one needs to make glucose on low carbs, with a max of 600-ish calories in protein because too much protein becomes toxic. These calories exclude fat, so I think it is around 50 grams of protein if eating adequate carbs, 100 grams if not eating carbs. They think sufficient carbs are 100 grams, I was hoping to find what they think a 50 carb diet should look like in terms of protein.

I have to say I feel much better if I am eating around 70-75 grams of protein with the exercise I am doing along with the 50-ish carbs I have.

I always remind myself that when Kwasniewski refers to his low protein recommendation, he means to emphasize eggs, which are of the highest quality protein, most biologically available for use and full of vitamins, and to eat potatoes, which are crucial and I suspect low protein cannot be sustained without potatoes or similar tubers.

Anyway, I don't recall seeing anything precise about glucose conversion. Also, I suspect people vary in their ability to convert protein, as well as vary greatly in actual protein needs (based on activity level, health status, etc.) so I think it is very important to actually see how you are feeling and find what works for you.

Snack suggestions:

gelatin (make up batches of flavored gelatin and sweetener if you are not against this)

coffee or decaf with cream (this really satisfies)

squares of dark chocolate (I use 100% Ghiradelli in hot water with sweetener - happiness in a cup!)

stock broth (I am so sad, I burned my last batch, I cracked the bones with pliars and everything, this is what happens when overwhelmed after being away all weekend and behind on chores - my lid did not fit the pot and it boiled away!).

I have gotten rid of the pork rinds. They were bothering my husband anyway, he can't have salty treats.

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Old 05-13-2011, 11:42 AM   #496
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Hi, Jenny and KT. Jenny, I've been thinking about a thread for our OD menus, too.
I'll start one.
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:45 AM   #497
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Hi, Jenny and KT. Jenny, I've been thinking about a thread for our OD menus, too.
I'll start one.
Wow, excellent, thank you!
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:48 AM   #498
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Here is the Daily Menu/Food intake thread for OD folks.

I'll bet we have the most delicious menus on the forum. Tee hee.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:02 PM   #499
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Sorry for subject change and please forgive me if I am way behind in this area....I was just listening to a podcast by Robb Wolf, interviewing Gary Taubes and they were discussing the use of a.s. and weight loss in some people. It seems that Robb has witnessed some clients who are very resistant to weight loss and when finally convinced to eliminate the a.s., actually start to lose weight. Gary has no anecdotal evidence because he has not been successful in convincing anyone to give them up.

It seems that those people who can't seem to lose weight are very attached to their sweeteners and are very resistant to giving them up. I'm thinking, just like carb addiction.

A bell went off in my head. I am just like that. I have been without losses for 7.5 months and stubbornly refuse to give up my a.s.!!! So I wonder if anyone here has tried to remove sweeteners and what kind of effect did it have, if any? I am seriously considering this....

Here is a link to the podcast in case anyone is interested...

The Paleo Solution | Paleolithic nutrition, intermittent fasting, and fitness <![CDATA[The Paleo Solution | Paleolithic nutrition, intermittent fasting, and fitness]]>
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:39 PM   #500
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Clackely,

Thank you!!!

I know I need some serious attention to, or perhaps a swift kick in the pants about the sweeteners, I will be listening to this tonight!!!
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:15 PM   #501
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Cathy, I hope the AS-free choice turns the corner for you.

There are several research study reports at Pubmed showing that AS stimulates the production of insulin. I posted a couple of them in this thread recently.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 05-13-2011 at 01:16 PM.. Reason: typing errors
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:23 PM   #502
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Thank you Auntie Em, I am sure I have seen and read about this issue before (likely what you posted) and there have been threads in the main lobby. I guess one of the issues for me is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Pretty much all foods (including thoughts of food) causes an insulin release. When considering a.s. it appears to be minimal but apparently there have not been any good studies addressing this issue directly. Or maybe I am mistaken on this point. I do tend to get 'blind' when it comes to my 'firmly held notions'.

KT, I would love to hear what you think of what they have to say. I am currently sipping club soda instead of crystal lite but will be using my sugar free ketchup and green relish as condiments for dinner tonight. I will however, attempt to go 'sweetener free' on Monday. I need time to give it a good try and have to get mentally prepared.

In the meantime, still adhering to eggs, organ meat, good fats and vlc. I have no problems with this w.o.e.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:39 PM   #503
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Cathy, I don't know how to decipher the reports at Pubmed the way Peter Dobromylskyj does. I've read bits about how the taste of sweet that has no nourishment causes different chemical reactions, but I don't have any scientific references.

I have my blind spots, or don't-want-to-look spots, too. (I'd have a very hard time with my cream and butter, and tea.) These days, I only make one small change at a time.

I wonder if our "need" for things that aren't the healthiest for us, are the closest we know how to choose to that which would actually give us the nutrients we need.

Dr. Julia Ross (The Mood Cure, and The Diet Cure), addresses this. Tyrosine, phenylalanine, 5-HTP and such, rather than caffeine.

Some folks really do want the taste of sweet more than others.

There is a discussion on one of the carnivore forums about different kinds of hunger, and body fat setpoints, which has inspired me to think more about sources of nutrients, ways of cooking, etc.

I have to mentally prepare for any step, too. Am sending you lots of good thoughts.

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Old 05-13-2011, 04:52 PM   #504
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OMG I know I cant give up AS, at all!!! Like I said it seems I like stuff really sweet but I use the liquid EZseetz, and I drink crystal light and coke cherry zero, and if I make one of those LC treats I add more liquid splenda, but the weight is coming off me so I dont think I am metabolic resistant, but I am sure if I could acquire a taste for less sweet stuff I would stop obsessing about real sugar stuff, like if I cheat I dont care about potatoes, rice, noodles, I want homemade baked goods!!!! Every now and then I try a cup of coffee without sweetener and I hate it I know I would drink less of it if it didn't taste so good, LOL
Good luck with that I will be curious to see if you notice a measurable difference in cravings and if it breaks your stall!!!! Are you close to your goal or are your stats accurate? Are you exercising?
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:36 AM   #505
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I have to say I feel much better if I am eating around 70-75 grams of protein with the exercise I am doing along with the 50-ish carbs I have.
Feel better compared to what? More protein/less carbs?

So sorry to hear about the demise of your broth! That's tragic!

I had sardines the other day, kippers yesterday (smoked herring), and mackerel today. Kippers were very good but I think I like the mackerel best; both are quite high in Omega-3s compared to other fish.

I was 292.2 this morning! Lowest I've seen in over a month!
And last week was TOM, and I was laid up for 6 days with my bum knee.

I wonder what it is? I started taking VitD3 a couple weeks ago.
Imma keep eating the fish, too, just in case!
(gotta watch out for that Belief Engine,* though!)

*I learned this phrase/concept last night from Tom Naughton's website...he just put up the presentation he made on the low-carb cruise. fathead-movie
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:58 AM   #506
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PirateJenny,

I feel better than when I tried doing very low carb, low protein, high fat. I became lethargic. I don't know what my counts were precisely; it was very low carb, many days near zero, I was doing a ketogenic diet before I tried this one on which I lost weight but it backfired with a big gain when I ate more protein and upped my carbs to only 30. I decided I needed to be more careful and eat more nutritious food adn avoid VLC! I can't let that sort of thing happen again.

My energy is coming back, a little more each week.


Clackley-Cathy,

Thank you for posting the podcast. I always enjoy listening to Gary Taubes. I am keeping sweeteners on my watch list.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:38 PM   #507
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KT, I'm glad you've found the ratios that make you feel good!

Honestly I haven't gone VLC, didn't do "induction" or anything.
This could be why I haven't lost much weight!!!
But, I really wanted, from the beginning, to find a WOE that I could do for years/the rest of my life, that would make me feel energetic & not deprived or awkward in social situations, get my hunger/cravings/portion sizes under control, and really NOURISH myself, not just try to trick myself into not eating "too much".

Slowly, every week, I'm making improvements & learning what works for me--and just plain learning a lot about nutrition! I'm envious of the people who have lost 50lbs since January...but I'm also upset by the people who lost 120lbs 5 years ago, stopped doing LC, & gained it all back.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:49 AM   #508
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OMG WHERE IS EVERYBODY?

Is it something I said?!
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:50 AM   #509
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I said in the beginning pages of this thread that I had not seen many (any?) women lose weight on this plan....so I'm still waiting.

Where fat is concerned, I think that the super high fat woe that is the LC rage does not work for many (women, at least).
When I see the amazing results of Whole 30, I think it is because less fat is consumed; When you're not eating any dairy, fat is automatically reduced.
Yes, you can still eat lots of CO, and animal fat but even then, w/o dairy it can be difficult to get large amts.

When I was experimenting w really high fat, it felt impossible to get to 70% w/o forcing it....like drinking cream and adding some type of fat to everything (everything swimming in it).
I don't want to put so much time into calculations and obsessing...I seem to be good at the latter if I'm not careful.

I seem to land comfortably at about 55%. Even w dairy I'd automatically land at about 60-65. Beyond that I'd have to make an effort to consume fat of some sort.

So, for me, high fat is a fail.

Onward.

This weekend I was at the grocery store up in Vancouver, WA and they had packages of fresh pork hocks so I grabbed a few packs for the freezer.
They also had the front leg portion w trotter, one to a package. It is the leg just below the shoulder so you get the benefit of the hock plus this little mini roast at the top.
Lots of collagen there in all that skin.
I have been thinking of popping one on the barbie but may just simmer it like the hocks. They are soooo good.

I was away from home this weekend so for my morning coffee, went to Starbucks. It was a bit disappointing since reducing dairy.
First morn, I ordered a breve latte. Too rich and masked the taste of the coffee. Second morning I just ordered a latte, nothing special. The lowfat milk actually tasted sweet. I meant to order whole milk but forgot.
At home, I've been making my latte w 1:1 cream diluted w water, and it's perfect.

We grilled steak one night and ate the leftover the second. I only ate meat for dinner and was so much more comfortable w/o veg included. I hate feeling stuffed.

I love vegies but had a chef salad for lunch so got my fix for the day.

Hope you're all having a good wknd.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:55 AM   #510
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OMG WHERE IS EVERYBODY?

Is it something I said?!
I'm here!

I have to tell you I am one of those people who lost 50+ lbs. - got to goal and maintained for a couple of years. I had my life blow up suddenly and jumped off the wagon and lived with some extremely high stress for years. I rapidly regained every lb. and 50 more.

When I came back to Atkins, I had 100+ lbs. to lose. This has been a real 'in your face' lesson for me. I learned the hard way. I might add that I am 55yrs. old and postmenopausal and I believe, I have a pretty damaged weight regulation system (or whatever you want to call it). This is from years of poor quality diet and too many ridiculous diets to even think of and my genetics.

Younger people may have a chance at avoiding the need for the way I have to eat and can think of being able to have the occasional treat of whatever... Maybe they will just need to restrict sugar and wheat and limit fruit to be able to maintain weight and health?

KT, I think the sweetener issue is interesting at very least but as G.T. says, there needs to be some research done. I guess the compelling thing in that conversation was that Taubes said the only people who didn't lose weight going low carb are the ones that he could not convince to give up the a.s. and that seems to go along with the body's cravings - hmmm..... My sister and I are going to do our own experiment of '2' and give it a week starting tomorrow.

Jem, all I can say is that so far, high fat, vlc, intermittent fasting, calorie counting and I forget what else....has been a fail for me. What I can say though is that high fat is a natural 'product' of low carbing. If I were to reduce my fat, I would be upping protein or carbs neither of which I think would be beneficial. It is quite possible that what is needed is time and adherence to l/c and quality nutrients. That is my contention at this point in time.
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