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Old 05-05-2011, 06:37 AM   #391
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I started them on bits of leftover chicken and slowly worked in broth - this is over a couple of months. It got to the point that they would pick out the bits of meat and leave the kibble unless they were really hungry.

Now - many months later, they get a mix of ground meat (pork, beef or chicken), eggs, potato, sweet potato, broccoli slaw and bone broth - all cooked up together. I feed them 'treats' of cooked liver and raw salmon. The proportions of meat to veg is about 2/3 meat.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:52 AM   #392
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Thank-you!
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:55 AM   #393
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OMG! I'm so happy for the butter article. Not that I haven't read enough about the health properties, but so many health bloggers just spout off stuff....you know.

Auntie Em, thanks for clarifying the info about age related adaptation to LC. I've been reviewing Lutz book but didn't really know what I was looking for.
I did see something about it taking longer in older folks.
I'll look again and see the specifics.

My dog eats raw chicken in the a.m. then 1/4c grain free kibble w a raw egg and ground beef for dinner.
When close dated cottage cheese is .69, I'll give her a spoon or two of that and also give her any leftover meat/fish, occ liver/organs.

I got her off kibble as soon as I adopted her as a pup. At that time, I cooked up meat for her.


One day I just quit cooking it.
I added back the little bit of grain free kibble because she is so obsessed w food and it calmed this.
She is a lab sized mutt.

Oh Cathy, careful of the raw salmon. Wild salmon has liver flukes which are deadly to dogs. Have seen this too many times here in the pacNW. So sad.

About Lutz book; It is probably one of the LC books worth owning. The infor is scientific but set forth in an easy to read manner.
He really was a genius.

One thing he does say relating to Aunties question is that some damage cannot be reversed; transplanting a sapling as opposed to a tree...the sapling will survive but parts/all of the tree may die.
I think this is in the cardiology discussion.

Is that what you're talking about Auntie Em?

I got my book on e bay. I think it came from Goodwill. It was cheap incl shipping.

Last edited by jem51; 05-05-2011 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:15 AM   #394
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Joannamaria, thank you for the thoughts from Dr. K. It's nice when the books we like to read agree with each other.

Cathy, I think there are mysterious hormone changes as we women age. Some of us have to take more radical steps than others. I keep fiddling with my food plan and reading. I know my health is improving, but weight maintenance is something I find challenging. That is wonderful news about your dog. I'm so glad.

Raw Meaty Bones is a site with info on feeding cats and dogs. Peter Dobromylskyj recommends it.

Jem51, thank you very much for the Dr. Lutz information. What you posted is very much related to my questions. I'll look for a used copy.

Will check back in a bit. Hope you all have something nice for lunch.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:17 AM   #395
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Thank you with the warning on salmon! It is human grade salmon, do you think this would pose the same risks?
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:22 AM   #396
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Cathy, I didn't see anything at Raw Meaty Bones about salmon. Here is the diet guideline page. Dr. Emily Deans mentioned something about not feeding her cats things that weren't in their evolutionary heritage. I don't know about dogs hunting salmon.

You could ask Peter Dobromylskyj, if you don't find out what you need to know.

Peter posted something about one of his cats only being able to eat certain kinds of meat, and would spit up other kinds. Don't remember what they were. Here is a link to comments at Hyperlipid about raw-feeding cats.
I would think that dogs and cats could have allergies to certain foods.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 05-05-2011 at 08:28 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:50 AM   #397
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Cathy, it is human grade and the salmon that is caught out here. It is wild pacific salmon and is fine for humans.
So just be aware.
The vets always have info about it so you may have to do a google search and be specific.
I'll see if I can find a site....It is common knowledge out here.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:12 AM   #398
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This looks like the best article on the salmon thing; dog-health-guide.org/salmonpoisoningindogs.html
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:22 AM   #399
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Another thing that Dr. K said which was an "aha" moment was about sugar. He wrote that it was the only substance that doesn't have any nutritional value and that it doesn't go bad because even mold and bacteria won't eat it.
Not to take away the "aha", but the reason sugar doesn't get moldy is because it is DRY! Add it to some water, though, and it will grow amazing amounts of mold.

If bacteria didn't LOVE sugar, bread wouldn't rise, rum wouldn't ferment, and "candida overgrowth" would not be a problem.

Ants love it, wet or dry.

My gelatin, spices, beef jerky, and protein powder don't get moldy either.

DR K's observations might apply to artificial sweeteners, though!
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:24 AM   #400
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Jenny, good points. I do keep some of the white sugar around for hummingbirds.

Do you make your own beef jerky?
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:27 AM   #401
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Thanks Jem - I think I will not risk salmon anymore! There is lots of other stuff they can eat!
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:32 AM   #402
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Auntie Em--

I have made beef jerky a couple of times, and pemmican once. It is a pain in the neck, though! And expensive! I would rather buy it...or snack on almonds--which also don't get moldy!
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:22 AM   #403
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From Optimal Nutrition page 95

"Only sugar is entirely "empty calories." It has no organic substances, micro-elements, minerals or enzymes. That is why sugar never goes bad. No worm will touch it, mold doesn't form on it, no putrefying bacteria feed on it."

I should have been more specific. Your gelatin, spices, beef jerky, protein powder, and almonds must have some organic substances, micro-elements, minerals or enzymes.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:27 AM   #404
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Jenny, how impressive, making pemmican! I'm hoping to receive some homemade venison jerky as a present from someone. Homemade does taste so nice. I'm glad you enjoy the almonds.

Joannamaria, thanks for the Dr. K reference on sugar.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:28 AM   #405
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If you add water to your gelatin etc they will also grow amazing amounts of mold
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:29 AM   #406
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Joannamaria, I remember doing that as a child for a science class experiment.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:40 AM   #407
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Auntie Em,
Yes me too!

Thanks for the link for the dog food.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:42 AM   #408
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Joannamaria, hope the cat/dog feeding site helps.

I have a pet rock. Only requires dusting once a decade or so.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannamaria View Post
From Optimal Nutrition page 95

"Only sugar is entirely "empty calories." It has no organic substances, micro-elements, minerals or enzymes. That is why sugar never goes bad. No worm will touch it, mold doesn't form on it, no putrefying bacteria feed on it."

I should have been more specific. Your gelatin, spices, beef jerky, protein powder, and almonds must have some organic substances, micro-elements, minerals or enzymes.
Sorry, my point is that all the foods I mentioned are DRY, as is sugar.

I'm not arguing that sugar is empty calories, but Dr K's logic about why mold & bacteria don't feed on it is flawed. Mold & bacteria need moisture to thrive.

I'm a professional cook--it's just basic food spoilage/storage principles.
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:12 AM   #410
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No problems! Your logic makes sense.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:50 PM   #411
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Hi, all. Dr. Deans has a new blog post up.

An excerpt about brain function:

All these pathways and all these signals have been running along using the nutrients and lifestyle we have evolved for for thousands and thousands of generations. The signaling depends upon having magnesium, zinc, cholesterol, omega 3s and arachidonic acid, vitamin D, creatine, CoQ10, restorative sleep, appropriate lighting, proper energy efficiency and neuronal recovery and repair. Some of us are nearly bullet-proof. We have lickety-split efficient neural networks that seem to be able to run on garbage. Others of us have some sort of problem somewhere, and we need all our compensatory mechanisms working, and we need to give our neural networks all the raw materials in the right amounts.

...

What we do matters. What we eat matters. To be the optimal human being from the genetic hand we were given, we'd best live in a way that compliments our biochemical programming. ....


I'm looking forward to the questions in the comments and her answers.

More pieces of the puzzle.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:54 PM   #412
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I make jerky occasionally and do the raw variety on a very low temp for about 48 hrs. It is really good.
I have only made it w sliced beef but this season will do ground meat. My meat supplier gave me some and I loved it.

I made pemmican once and hated it.
Rendered my own fat for it.
Had tallow burps all day....yuk. Never again.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:45 PM   #413
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Auntie Em,

When you have the Life Without Bread book, you can word search it on books on Google. Even if the pages aren’t there, it will show you the sentence with the word in it on the blank page, and what page to turn to. It’s a cool feature.
If you go to this link and type the word “older” in, you may more quickly find what you are looking for.

Life Without Bread: How a Low ... - Google Books

Interesting on the Scott caffeine post. I think it is worth limiting to avoid the risks. There have been times I couldn’t make it without it, lately I don’t need it. I think it’s the magnesium, but I can’t prove it!

Dr. Deans rocks. Great article!

Joannamaria – America loves popping pills, until they find butt oil in their underwear! I wonder if the genius that came up with that thinks it is funny…

Oh, I forgot to comment about kidney stones – I think it is true that they are usually there first, but mull this over – kidney stones is a known side effect of the ketogenic diet for epileptic children. It is a risk of going hard-core ketogenic. I think some versions of the ketogenic diet involve water restriction (doctors are crazy, it seems unnecessary), granted. It is something to be aware of, it is a risk.

I take care to drink water; I am definitely ketogenic around 5:00 p.m. everyday (keto breath!), and I don’t get home until 7:30 most nights (long hours, long commute, ugh), so there is a loooong stretch between lunch and dinner.

Cathy/Clackley – heh, yes, I was busy reading and listening last night! I am tired today, I had to read and summarize regulations for my boss. It horrifies most people, that’s one of the things I like about my job the most (heh). Some people believe they are allergic to regulations, but I think it is just a sensitivity issue.

Oh, you will probably the podcast! Childers talks about dog nutrition, it makes so much sense!!! You have some sweet pups there. You are so sharp to have thought of good, whole food to help your baby!

I have only recently understood whole foods are necessary!

Have you ever seen the dog whisperer? I don’t watch much TV, but I cracked up when I saw him, because everything he said about the dog pretty much applied to me. Sometimes, I think if someone would ‘walk’ me, my problems would be solved! Hmmmmm. LOL!

Seriously, I have been mulling over the post about addressing the weakest link. I do nothing but sit at work in front of a computer, commute (bus ride 1 hour in, 1 ˝ hours back), come home, eat, cook, then sit in front of the computer again (like now), and stress out about things that aren’t done. Ugh! This needs attention!

Step one – I am no longer waiting for the bus in the bus tunnel. I walk to an open-air bus stop and look at the sky and get some light while I wait. It is only 20 minutes or so outdoors between the extra walk and the wait, but much needed.

Hmm, it seems possible the illness is affecting you. Something like this happened to Chris Kressler’s story (the Healthy Skeptic), which affected his health (it wasn’t a weight loss thing, he had a terrible time recovering from an illness he contracted while travelling):

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/about

I don’t see your weight loss chart?

Jem51 – heh, I love reading about grass-fed butter!

Liver flukes – I had to google it. Out of morbid curiosity, the first thing I’m doing is clicking on a youtube video—it is a removal, I might scream when they find it. I’m kind of scared, I muted it, like that is going to protect me (LOL)…..I think about this sort of thing when eating at sushi restaurants. House (TV) episodes come to mind…

EEEEEEEKKKKK!!! Wow, that was horrible!

PirateJenny – I remember skimming Dr. K’s rant about sugar. The whole foods camp rants about this all the time, not just about sugar, but that is a big one. The processed foods in boxes and bags are all like this. They can sit on the shelf forever without rotting! I had not thought about the water thing, yeah, moisture would rot it, I guess that is what lets the bacteria have at it.
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:54 AM   #414
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KT, thanks for the searching tip and link. The internet does come in handy for such things.

On the ketogenic diet for children with epilepsy, they have restricted fluid intake, as too much fluid can (will?) dilute the ketosis. The things I read rather prompted me to drink at least ten glasses a day, plus my tea, and broths. In hot weather, or when I am very active, I sometimes drink 1 1/2 gallons of water each day.

KT, that's great that you enjoy summarizing regulations. I love reading about what others enjoy doing that some find too this or too that. A very handy talent and skill you have.

On magnesium and caffeine, I do notice that if I take Tyrosine and magnesium first thing in the morning, that I don't "need" as much tea. (I'm not a coffee drinker, except for the occasional decaf.)

On sugar: I remember when William Dufty's "Sugar Blues" came out in the 1970s, how that got a bunch of us off sugar for many years. As with many, it crept back in, and I had to weed it out again.


Jem51, thanks for posting about the jerky and the pemmican. I'm sorry the tallow caused the burps. That sort of thing takes something off my food list, too. The 48-hour jerky sounds great.

Hope you all are having a lovely start things morning.

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Old 05-06-2011, 05:52 AM   #415
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I can't seem to get my chart to load. It says invalid file. It is an excel file. I tried putting it into word but got the same results.

Auntie Em, thank you for the info on feeding dogs. I wish I could do raw but I can't convince myself. My sister has switched her 12 yrs old poodle over and had dramatic difference in health.

KT, I think making time for walking is a great idea - especially while the weather is good. I admire your ability to summarize regulations - you have demostrated your skills with a quite a few of your posts and believe me when I say, I really appreciate it!!!

I have listened to the healthy skeptic that you mentioned with Chris Kresser and his story concerning his health. I think he was quite a bit more ill than I ever was. I am currently in the middle of the first Skeptic with Stephan Guyenet (who is brand new to me). It is so interesting!!! I will be waiting with bated breath to hear the upcoming podcast! But up next is the Childer's podcast.

Btw, the Deans blog is quite interesting. Another bookmark for me! Thanks for pointing this one out.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:02 AM   #416
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Hi, Cathy. I'm glad you like Dr. Deans' blog. I enjoy that she approaches food from brain health, and addresses the whole picture of what constitutes health.

I don't know what daring it would take to change a pet's diet. It felt very daring to make some of the choices, at the times I made them, in my own food plan. The changes are tiny adjustments now.

Hope you all are having a very lovely morning.

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Old 05-06-2011, 12:24 PM   #417
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Wow I'm just loving this thread. Learning so much and I too just added Dr Dean to my bookmarks - fascinating stuff. I'm going to try the tyrosine as well. Hope the l-tyrosine netrition carries (500mg) is OK as I just put it in my cart.

I've been feeding my standard poodle meat, eggs, cheese, and milkbones(I know but she loves her cookies! May switch her to pork rinds for snacks as she needs the salt) since she was dx with Addison's disease 6 years ago. She has to take daily meds of course but has really thrived off of commercial foods.

I don't do Dr K but enjoy reading. I'm diabetic and follow Dr Bernstein's diet. I couldn't do organ meat, offal, ect. Some days I can barely stomach meat at all and I don't eat seafood of any kind either but I do take fish oil daily. I also use coconut oil as animal fat sometimes gives me severe heartburn. What do you all think of coconut oil? Healthy or hype?

Anyway everyone thanks for all the posts and links. I'm a daily lurker on your thread and may speak for many when I say thank you for sharing your research, ideas, and tips. May we all find health together.
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:36 PM   #418
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Shunsweets, how nice to have you post. I use Dr. Bernstein's carb levels, constant protein and his law of small numbers, list of plants to eat and avoid, and am most thankful for him. Combining his plan with Dr. Harris' and having Dr. Kwasniewski's protein calculations and his views on fat, have all made a great food plan for me.

Coconut oil has antibacterial and antiviral properties. It has MCTs which increase ketosis. I don't know what else it is touted to do. The things I listed have been show in clinical trials. I'm sorry, I don't have links handy to provide references. Dr. Mary Newport posts a good deal about how coconut oil has helped her husband, who has Alzheimer's. Here is an article she wrote on coconut oil and Alzheimer's.

Hope you are doing well.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:07 PM   #419
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Hey shunsweets!

I think coconut oil is great! Aside from all the "hype"...it's just been a staple food for so many cultures for centuries. I've enjoyed coconut in lots of Indian, Thai, Brazilian and Caribbean cuisine, and use it in my own cooking/snacking frequently.

I've never used it consistently enough to notice if it affects weight loss or other health issues, but I give it a thumbs up!

There wouldn't be so much hype about it if we had never been misinformed about saturated fat in the first place! Isn't it ridiculous...how much disease and death must have been caused by white people telling brown people to use corn & soybean oil instead of coconut, and now the white people are turning coconut oil into a trendy, lucrative health movement!
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:32 PM   #420
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Hi Shunsweets! I love this thread too - so chock full of information! I am not diabetic but do have symptoms of insulin resistance. I think I am going to put Dr. Bernstein's book on my list of 'must reads'.

Coconut oil seems to be all the rage - I have been using it off and on and cannot claim any noticeable difference in health but it makes a great treat (coconut bark). I also use it on skin irritations and I have metal sensitivity so apply it to my pierced earrings and can wear them for days without any irritation. I am sure there are many other great applications. Btw, I mistakenly bought a jar of the cheap crap and have found that it is great for oiling my butcher block counters!

PirateJenny, I totally agree about the misinformation that has be a travesty over the past 30 or so years. On a very personal level, it is responsible for my own Mother's untimely death - complications due to type 2 diabetes.
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