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Old 04-30-2011, 10:22 AM   #331
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KT, I do experiments, too.

Any chance of cutting up tiny bits of liver and putting it into stew?

When I first started eating liver, I used lots of beef bacon and fried onions and tiny pieces of liver. After a while, I left out the onions and got the liver amounts much higher than the beef bacon. The idea of eating offal is more unappealing to me than the actual eating of it. Just acculturation, I think.

Peter has posted the crucial points of Dr. K's books. Between Peter's distillation and the websites, I decided not to buy the books. I like succinct and clear, which is why Dr. Harris' writings are so easy to read, for me.

Yep, salicylates, oxalates, gallates, and such, can be troublesome for various folks.

Leaving out the potatoes and tomatoes took some deliberate effort at first. Next, was the nightshade spices, peppers et al. I do feel better without them. Seems odd not to grow tomatoes this year.

Growing more herbs is nice, and they add lovely variety to the menus, as well as giving some micronutrients.

Here is the low FODMAPs diet. Fructose malabsorption can cause depression. It also distends the gut--there is that subject again.

Here is the FailSafe diet.
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Old 04-30-2011, 11:02 AM   #332
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FYI, regarding eating egg shells:

How to Make Calcium using Egg Shells
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:05 PM   #333
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Geez your girls are so full of info I have to read this all in the morning, I love coming here and reading all the things you guys have to offer, it is so interesting!!!
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:08 PM   #334
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pirate we feed our chickens egg shells to help make the shells hard. Some times when we have too many eggs we will boil them and chop them up and feed them back to em, they love them.
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Old 04-30-2011, 09:35 PM   #335
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Auntie Em,

Thank you for the FOSMAPs link! This makes a lot of sense to me. Also, the Failsafe link. I believe I followed a link you provided before to this blogger's writings about her autoimmune issues. Her writings nearly brought me to tears, I have had similar experiences, but not as severe. My heart goes out to her.

Wow, you make good suggestions. I know I can't tolerate the smell of beef liver cooking. Hmph. Perhaps it is just related to my beef aversion. The suggestion to cook it with bacon or my soup in small pieces - gosh, that is a good one. I could benefit from whatever seeps into the soup anyway if I can't take eating it. I might try this with the chicken liver. Wrapping in bacon, I might be able to do that

PirateJenny - thank you for the link! I wil go through the comments as well.

PirateWoman - Hi Laura!!! Good to see you!!! I wish I could have chickens. The homeowner's association would flip out!!! They took pictures of my 2 1/2 inch weeds once (yep, they are crazy) and tried to fine me $50 (they did this to about 2/3 of our neighbors once over memorial day weekend when they knew everyone would be away and not mowing their lawns, sunny weekend after a rain, such jerks). OMG, they would "lay an egg" if they found chickens in my yard!!! OH I wish!!!

Interesting on feeding the chickens the shells and they lay better eggs. That is so cool.
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Old 04-30-2011, 09:53 PM   #336
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Yesterday I got the Rosedale Diet & Diabetes Solution books from the library.
I am not diabetic, but am interested in what Dr. Bernstein has to say--
he seems very wise!!!

They do agree on many, many points, but
just some quick contradictions between the diets:
Rosedale Diet:
(anti-saturated fat; claims to improve leptin sensitivity)
choose high-fiber foods
fat-free soft cheeses, incl. cottage cheese
no hard cheeses unless low-fat
non-fat yogurt
chicken breast, no skin
no diet soda, artificial sweeteners
no coconut oil (for first 3 weeks)
no lard
most fats from olive oil, avocado, nuts/seeds, fish

Dr. Bernstein:
avoid fiber/foods (and amounts of foods) that cause distension of the stomach
cottage cheese not recommended; only 2T at a time if used
--all other cheese is awesome
do not use non-fat yogurt
diet soda, artificial sweeteners, DaVinci syrups, SF Jell-O OK
avoiding animal fats is "unwise"
coconut oil is awesome

Well, I certainly like the foods on Dr. Bernstein's lists better!
But I still haven't found the right WOE for me to lose weight on.
I sincerely think that my anti-depressant has messed with my metabolism,
--especially the generic option that is all my insurance will cover!!!--
and at my next doctor's appointment want to get lots of bloodwork done,
and ask about Metformin!

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Old 05-01-2011, 12:18 AM   #337
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Wow, I just listened to this broadcast. Excellent. The Healthy Skeptic guest is Kurt Harris.

Heh, they discuss IBS and stress. My digestive upsets were the worst during and after pregnancy (when my mother moved in), and with my husband's heart health issues (2 heart valves replaced, pacemaker, arrhythmias, heart failure, this started happening to him in his early 40s!!!). Stress, sigh, yes, the biggest factor, no doubt. It has been terrible for the past few months, especially. My husband's health has deteriorated (but he is turning the corner now), and we had this terrible scare at work where we (non-management employees) thought the company was secretly for sale (it wasn't, but we lost our CEO). OMG...

Hang in there for the show, the end is really good where they discuss vitamin D supplementation - it gets interesting as the Chris (the Healthy Skeptic) interjects with how recommendations differ if obese, suffering from inflammation, or autoimmune issues. Too little is a problem, too much is as well.

Great show! Here is the link:

= = = = =

In this week’s show we interview the illustrious Kurt Harris, M.D. from PaNu

Topics discussed include:

Orthorexia
Meditation practice
Whether anyone should care about their lipid measurements
Are their hormetic benefits from fructose, wheat and seed oils?
A lot more…
We had a great time recording it, and I think you’ll enjoy it.



http://thehealthyskeptic.org/the-hea...cast-episode-6
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:32 AM   #338
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PirateJenny,

Hmm, I guess I don't remember much from the Rosedale diet. I may be remembering "Mastering Leptin" with the low carb/IF. I think I read two or three books on leptin. I decided my low carb regimne was sufficient, but should go back and look at this sometime.

Dr. B is the stuff.

Hang in there, you will find your way. Learn as much as you can, and find what rings true with you.

I have probably said this so many times, but I have to say it again. I have only lost 15-20 pounds per year. If I had given up, look where I would be. Most of the time, nothing happens. Nothing at all. I get a boost sometimes, with excitement from a new discovery that helps me with the diet. Sometimes, I get sick and drop some weight (that doesn't come back!!!). Sometimes unusual bout of stress comes a long and I drop some weight that way. I think the best part about following low carb is that when the weight drops away, it tends to stay away!!!
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:26 AM   #339
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PirateJenny, I agree with KT about Dr. Bernstein. He is really devoted to helping people get well, from what is making them have high blood sugars, disturbed insulin, and metabolic syndrome, etc. Both Dr. Harris and Dr. Dobromylskyj have stated several times on their blogs how much they admire and respect Dr. Bernstein and his work. Dr. Harris highly recommends reading Dr. B's book. (That's what got me to read it, and it changed my view towards food, eating, fruit, blood sugar, health..., for life! ).

KT, there is much interesting info at the afibbers site to help folks with cardiac troubles. This page on magnesium is a good example.

I think any steps we make towards eating more healthfully, choosing better supplements, getting better rest, thinking more clearly, being kinder to ourselves and others, help us tremendously, even if we are not as sleek and trim as we would like to be. Every step helps!

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Old 05-01-2011, 06:41 AM   #340
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I love the healthy skeptic - it is a challenge for me as some of the terminology and concepts are completely new (for me) but I listen intently and look stuff up as needed. I am listening on my ipod as I go for my walks - I was getting tired of my music so this is perfect. Thanks for passing this along.

I have never considered allergy as a source of problem but I see now that it can be. I agree with KT about not eating 'types' of foods and becoming more sensitive to them. I had an incident with an organic beet (is this a nightshade?) and ate 1/2. Not long after, it 'evacuated' and I had a miserable night. I was very surprised and will not make that mistake again. But I thought it was because it was too sugary and didn't consider it a possible allergy.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs" -The Spark of Reason

“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!

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Old 05-01-2011, 07:07 AM   #341
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Clackley, sorry you had beet troubles. Beets are not nightshades, and are known for having that special effect of fast elimination. Beets are on the lists of FODMAPs, and FODMAPs can cause some to have diarrhea. Fructose malabsorption is not classified as an allergy, AFAIK.

Dr. Deans posted this link in one of her recent posts, on Vitamin D, swine flu, and obesity, by Stephanie Seneff. Dr. Deans comments after this post, about Vitamin D supplements, sunlight, the antibiotic nature of vitamin D and gut flora, and chronotherapy are worth reading.

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Old 05-01-2011, 11:31 AM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Danny Roddy Continued:

Here is another post on low stomach acid and nutrient absorption. I have read Dr. Eades discussing that as we get older we make less stomach acid. Very interesting!

Is Stomach Acid The Missing*Link? - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Animal-Based Nutrition For Hair & Health

Is Stomach Acid The Missing Link?

Saturday, January 16, 2010 at 5:03PM

Is there anyone reading that has not experienced the pure dread of waking up in the middle of the night with a knot in your leg that feels like the size of a basketball?

My experience is as follows:

Cramps weren't around during the daytime, but loved showing up at 3-4am. Waking up — gasping for air — I would grab whatever leg was throbbing and immediately leap out of bed to my feet. I would describe the pain as having felt like someone jabbed a knife in my calf and began to twist.

My nightly routine to counter these attacks was to hobble around for 10 minutes until they were gone. Once the cramp finally did go away, it was a toss up if I would wake up again from another cramp. It sucked.

Until now I thought this phenomenon was just part of the acclimation period to a very low carbohydrate diet (VLC) or carnivorous diet. My goal for this post is to garner some thought on the idea that cramps are related to a much bigger problem, a lack of hydrochloric acid (stomach acid).

Hydrochloric acid (HCL) is secreted in response to the food we eat, specifically protein. HCL in large is responsible for the energy intensive task of breaking down protein as well as promoting the absorption of many key vitamins and minerals. HCLs other duties include maintaining the acidic pH of the stomach and warding off bacteria, fungi, and pathogens.

When stomach acid is low we are opened up to bacterial overgrowth, lowered resistance to infection, and high probability of nutrient malabsorption. If that was not bad enough, when the stomach lacks acidity, food will not be emptied into the duodenum for further digestion. Half digested food is now sitting in the stomach, fermenting, causing inflammation, stress and potentially causing acid reflux symptoms.

We have touched on nutrient malabsorption, but let us go over a few that are interesting.

■Zinc - Although it is important for women, zinc is the man mineral. Zinc has a hand in libido, fatty acid utilization, b-vitamin utilization, sperm production, hair growth, and just about every important bodily function you can think of. Oddly enough, zinc is also crucial for the production of stomach acid.

■Magnesium - Think of magnesium as the relaxation mineral. It would not be surprising if most Americans were deficient considering high blood glucose and insulin resistance cause rapid evacuation of this important mineral. Engaging in physical and mental stress induces chronic over stimulation of your adrenal glands; essentially milking your body's stores of magnesium. Magnesium along with potassium and calcium (the "um" minerals) are all-integral in promoting relaxation, especially in the muscles.

■Vitamin B12 - Reduced acidity in the stomach delays the release of "intrinsic factor" which is needed to absorb vitamin B12 later on in the small intestine. Muscle weakness, extreme fatigue, and neurological problems are all the calling cards of a vitamin B12 deficiency.

■Histidine - Low stomach acid will hinder protein digestion crippling the 50,000 bodily functions that require amino acids. While histidine is not the most glamorous amino acid, men and women with libido trouble may want to pay close attention to histidine. Histidine is converted into histamine, which has a strong role in promoting the ease of achieving an ******. Furthermore, histamine increases vasodilation, which may promote blood flow to sexual organs.

What was this post about again?

Cramps. Carnivorous ones.

Okay, so minerals are not absorbed so well when stomach acid is low. This naturally leads us to our next question:

Why is stomach acid low?

Here are a couple common conditions associated with low stomach acid:

■Hypothyroidism - The suppression of gastrin, the hormone responsible for the release of HCL, is compromised during thyroid hypo-function.

■Chronic Mental & Physical Stress - Digestion is a parasympathetic nervous system dominant process, which means we need to be in a relaxed state to properly secrete HCL and digestive enzymes. Along with relaxing at meals, one can make sure to avoid stressful situations whenever possible. Stress causes excretion of important vitamins (b-vitamins especially) and minerals including zinc - which as I mentioned is needed to produce HCL.

■H. Pylori Infection - I will let Dr. Stephan from Whole Health Source field this one.

There are a few different ways to reduce your stomach's acidity level. The most straightforward is to take an antacid, or any number of drugs that lower stomach acidity (as in the mouse study above). But can we do it naturally? Sure, all it takes is a little Helicobacter pylori infection! Luckily, most people already have one.

H. pylori is a bacterium that's the main proximal cause of stomach ulcers. Antibiotics are now the standard treatment for ulcers, and they're effective. Treating an asymptomatic H. pylori infection with antibiotics increases stomach acidity, suggesting that H. pylori is capable of suppressing the secretion of stomach acid. In another study, eradicating H. pylori with antibiotics improved nearly all patients suffering from hypochlorhydria (insufficient stomach acid).

Like any organism, H. pylori likes to stay well-fed. Its favorite food is hydrogen gas (H2), and the more it gets, the more it grows. It's not the only bacterium to like H2. Salmonella, of food poisoning fame, requires H2 to become pathogenic. Clostridium bacteria are also associated with elevated H2. H2 is produced by the fermentation of food by bacteria in the digestive tract. It's very small so it diffuses around the body, reaching the stomach lining where it's eagerly gobbled up by H. pylori. It may be equally good food for a number of other parasites around the body.

■High Sugar Diet - Diets high in refined carbohydrates, combined with vegetarian sensibilities (high fiber), hamper the body from producing adequate amounts of stomach acid. Plant foods containing phytates actively bind to zinc, magnesium, calcium, and iron escorting them out of the body. Perhaps a lack of stomach acid is why vegetarians and vegans claim that red meat just "sits in their stomach". I would be willing to bet most of them are achloridic for sure...

■High Protein Diet - HCLs main duty is to break down dietary protein into peptides. Nora Gedgaudas, author of the phenomenal book Primal Body, Primal Mind, points out that protein intake above that which the body needs is extremely taxing on digestive system. If one has HCL issues, perhaps less protein would be the way to go avoiding the potential stress related to poor digestion.

My over simplistic conclusion is that there is a possible correlation between hydrochloric acid deficiency and a lack of the "um" minerals: magnesium, potassium, and calcium. These minerals are crucial in regards to avoiding cramps and spasms.

If Dr. Jonathan Wright, author of Why Stomach Acid Is Good For You, is to be believed, 90% of Americans are deficient in HCL. That is a huge number, but I would not be surprised if it were true. Correcting any possible issue with digestion, whether it be consuming pemmican, eating less protein (and more fat), eating less meals a day, or supplementation with hydrochloric acid (betaine HCL); will assure the absorption and proper utilization of the bodies most important nutrients. Perhaps the replenishment of stomach acid will make the cramp induced misery that some experience when adventuring into VLC/ZC land more tolerable or better yet, nonexistent.
I had to dig up the article about zinc again, because....

Oh my gosh, Clackley, I finally picked up some oysters - as you pointed out, these are the natural food source of zinc. Yes, they are very high in zinc!

Most importantly, I like them! Wow, the smoked oysters in olive oil are so good!!!!

Hmph, seafood seems to be the only thing I don't wimp out on. Heh, yesterday we went to a sushi bar where the little plates roll by on a track. I love the eel, the salmon skin, the spicy tuna, wow! I had this pile of uneaten rice, I eat only the tasty parts and the seaweed
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:46 AM   #343
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Auntie Em - I can't thank you enough for all your helpful posts. I will be going through the afibbers site, and I sent it to my husband as well.

quoting Auntie Em:
I think any steps we make towards eating more healthfully, choosing better supplements, getting better rest, thinking more clearly, being kinder to ourselves and others, help us tremendously, even if we are not as sleek and trim as we would like to be. Every step helps!
Oh, yes, every little step helps

It is so amazing to dive in and read about vitamin D. So much information, so little time! I will never know the importance of everything necessary to health, but I am bowled over by how modern life and the standard american diet is so crazy unhealthy.

Clackely - I know what you mean, I don't understand everything the Healthy Skeptic says, or all the information I have in my newsfeeds. Each time I encounter any particular topic, I learn a little more. Sometimes I absorb the fact that I have heard something new is all, then the next time I hear it, something clicks, something sinks in.

I want to keep myself immersed, so I don't drift off track.

Wow, beets sound brutal! I've never been able to bring myself to try one, maybe that is a good thing!

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Old 05-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #344
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Well, I had an awesome whoosh of 5-7lbs this week (which just puts me 1lb above where I was a month ago, but still--yay!), and i have NOT been eating "right"--had some eggplant parm, made with breadcrumbs, at a friend's house the other night, wine, a couple of marshmallows when everyone was making s'mores; some white bread, phyllo dough and a lot more veggies/salad than usual during the week. Oh, and a good bit of Scotch last night!

But I think the help may be coming from curcumin, which I started taking on Monday, and it seems to have completely gotten rid of my edema!!! This is very exciting for me!!!! My feet and hands have been swelling terribly the last couple years, especially at night, or after having carbs, or even on a humid day.

I've had this bottle of curcumin lying around for months; I tried it a while back for pain relief. I decided to take it again because it's a turmeric extract, and turmeric is good for the liver, and I have been very upset about this "hepatic gluconeogenesis" thing!!! All these months I've been restricting my carbs so I won't have too much glucose swimming around my system, and my *&$# liver might be sneakily MAKING buckets of glucose when I'm not looking?!!

Curcumin is a also an anti-inflammatory, and there seems to be a strong link between inflammation, obesity, & insulin resistance, as well as pretty much all chronic ailments such as pain, arthritis, heart disease, atherosclerosis, even cancer.

Sugars, grains & vegetable oils are highly inflammatory, so that's good motivation for me to avoid them for the rest of my life and not get impatient with the weight situation!

I started taking Vitamin D3 this week, too. I probably should have been taking it all winter--I haven't gotten any sun for months, but this week has been so nice that I've been trying to sit outside and read for a couple hours a day
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:12 PM   #345
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KT, thanks for your kind thoughts.

Beets don't cause me any trouble. They might if I ate too many at one time. Did you ever eat too many stewed prunes? That's worse. Beets are one of my favorite root vegetables. I just eat a couple of bites, due to carbs. Same as parsnips. Pickled beets, Borscht, mmmm, there are lots of good ways to enjoy beets.

KT, if you run across any good info on PUFAs blocking iodine absorption, could you post what you find? I would like to read something well done. I've seen a couple of comments, but no science.

Best wishes to all this lovely May Day.

ETA: PirateJenny, I was typing while you posted. I'm glad you are doing so well.

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Old 05-01-2011, 01:00 PM   #346
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Auntie Em, I love(d) beets but I guess I have become sensitive to them or there is always the possibility that it was unrelated and I had something else....I would have to try again to prove or disprove and am not willing at this point. I am a chicken #*!+ when it comes to my gut.

KT, I am listening to the most recent podcast you recommended and enjoying it thoroughly. Those guys are so smart!

I also listened to a podcast by Skeptics with Gary Taubes, talking about his WWGF and they talk briefly about the Oz show debauchery. I was interested to hear what their take would be because of their fine ability to debunk and was very pleased with the interview. Here is a link but it can also be found in itunes (free).

http://hw.libsyn.com/p/a/7/6/a762bd5...&l_mid=2537549

Jenny, so glad you are feeling better with the edema. That has got to be a relief. I would love to hear more about the curcumin. This is the first time I have heard of it.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:19 PM   #347
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Clackley, I know what you mean about not eating things that have previously caused difficulties. Curcumin is used for all sorts of ailments. Here is the wikipedia entry on the spice, turmeric, which talks about some of the benefits.

KT, in the book you have of Dr. K's, does he address the subject of women having long, long years of fertility, or having periods start again after having already gone into menopause? There are some interesting comments about this, of women on the O.D. after this post at Hyperlipid. Apparently, these long years of fertility protect against aging.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:01 AM   #348
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thanks, y'all!

here's hoping that my weight is actually on a downward trend, and won't be rollercoasting like it did this past month!

I know we are all different, but I do get so upset when I see all the people on this board who have lost 25-30 or more pounds in the last couple of months, or 70-80-90lbs since I started in September!!!

Clackley, as a person who has worked at many juice bars & has advised a few people on juice fasts (I haven't done juice, fruit or veggie, in about 18 years--lol)...I can tell you that beets are a VERY "cleansing" veggie, and far too powerful for a lot of people. They are said to cleanse the liver, so IF they actually do so, a person could react strongly to the "detox" effects, as well as whatever they do to one's bowels!

I wish I could tell you more about curcumin, but, oh, there's just so much that it's good for! I don't know where to start or how to summarize!

I have wondered if in countries such as India where a lot of rice, legumes, & veggies are eaten, if all the spices/coconut/tea have prevented the diseases usually brought on by such high-carb diets?

I hope everyone had a nice weekend...talk to y'all soon!
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:10 AM   #349
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Auntie Em,

I don't remember Kwasniewski discussing menopause. I looked through the Optimal Nutrition book, he discussed pregnancy. It is short, only 137 pages long and large-ish print, I hope I didn't miss it if he did. There is very little content in the book. The other book is really random and bizzare with his religious explanations of the diet, I haven't finished it.

Clackley,

Thank you, I'm listening to the Taubes podcast now. Heh, yes, I love that, the thought that counting calories works is so absurd. If we could only eat two bites less food per day, we wouldn't gain the middle-aged tire. Ha! This is ridiculous, no one can count calories this preciously, obviously weight gain and weight loss is hormonal. I love listening to him.

Ugh, Oz, so rude!!! Ah, well, he has the Oz industry to defend and sponsors to consider.

PirateJenny - good to hear the edema has improved! Curcumin and scotch might be the magic combo

Wow, I felt good today. I had my first good day in a long time. I went out, shopped with energy! I think my combination is starting to hit. I feel it takes an effort on all fronts.

So, I don't believe the oysters could in one day change the world, but I had to look to see what is in these things!!! My GOSH did anyone notice oysters are packed with B12 and minerals as well as zinc? Per nutritiondata site. Also, they are high in tyrosine (checking other site). Hmph. Perhaps this all added up to me buzzing around, who knows. I'll have to remember that the next time I have to do yard work!

Well, I did have more food than usual yesterday, too (sushi). Hmph, seafood seems to really do it for me.

I went to a mexican grocery store today (looking for chicken backs, no luck), and popped into Goodwill next door. I picked up "Mastering Leptin" for $2 (brand new, the binding isn't even cracked!), also, a Callenetics book for $2. I can't believe all the copies of Atkins there and other diets. Hmph, I could have saved a small fortune shopping for diet books at this Goodwill! What a load of books diet books they have!!!

I don't recognize the Mastering Leptin book! I must have read something else yet.

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Old 05-02-2011, 04:07 AM   #350
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I have a sudden yen for oyster stew!!!
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:47 AM   #351
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Love oysters. Putting them on the grill whole is awesome then sprinkle w a little hot sauce.

There's a farmers market on the WA coast that has live music AND the food court has a booth w grilled oysters on half shell. They are sprinkled w a mix of parmesan and finely chopped green onion. That's all I need for lunch.

Since dairy is recommended, oyster stew is perfect.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:11 PM   #352
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Don Matesz posted some very interesting things in his current blog post, and in the comments afterwards about women on high fat diets, carb levels during luteal phase (after ovulation), not losing weight, and other symptoms. Worth a read, in case one finds it necessary to adjust macronutrient ratios after ovulation, or in general.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:47 PM   #353
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Heh, oysters are IN the rotation!

I made a delicious soup for dinner! Chicken stock broth, stirred in two eggs, stirred in a little cream, pepper. Yum!!! I need to find my shaker of chinese five spice!

Auntie Em, I noticed Chris Kessler commented on this article (the Healthy Skeptic). Interesting post. I agree there isn't one formula for everyone at all times. Metabolism and hormone balance are such complex topics. We interact with the diet as well, what feels great in the first few weeks may not work out.

I like listening to Chris, even though he is critical of the very low carb diet. It's not that I am looking to switch gears, I just like to know the risks and make decisions.

I want to give my tweaks on estrogen dominance and avoiding goitrogens a chance. I still have no coffee cravings!

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Old 05-03-2011, 04:05 AM   #354
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Hi KT. I, too, enjoy some of the things Chris Kresser writes. For me, he is not at all in the same category as Drs. Bernstein, Deans, Dobromylskyj, and Harris. I think another twenty years or so will help with those young ones.


The other blogs I read have interesting points and some useful things to think about. Peter has so much respect for Dr. K, and Dr. Harris has said such good things about Dr. K, that I eat the offal and keep the ratios. The too-high fat for some people might be the difference between 1.5 FAT to 1 PRO than those eating 3 or 3.5 FAT to 1 PRO. I don't know what is good for others. Reading, reading, reading, and when something has the ring of truth and fills in a missing piece, I try it.

There seem to be very differing anecdotal reports from the women than from the men.

I agree, I like to know the pluses and minuses, possible risks and problems, rather than doing something blindly.

If you find useful things about the estrogen dominance, especially easy-to-implement ones, could you post them?

Your soup method is a nice one. I only use egg yolks, and put a few chives or other herbs in the broth.

Do you make your broth in a crock pot, a pressure cooker, or ???

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Old 05-03-2011, 05:20 AM   #355
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I must admit that the Don Matesz writting was a bit upsetting for me. I am not familiar with him and don't quite get why he would go off in the direction he did but the main message I got was that he thinks a 'paleo' diet may not be the answer at all. I did appreciate Chris Kresser's comments - reassuring.

KT, the soup sounds really good. I am getting dangerously low on stock and bones - haven't had chicken for a while but today is the day!
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:26 AM   #356
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Cathy, Don was just writing that having the fat content very high might not be good for everyone. He very much advocates a Paleo/Primal food plan. In that post, he was only addressing the macronutrient ratios. I'm sorry you found it upsetting. In the comments he stated that because some of his clients, and reports he has read, have found that not everyone does well on the high fat, he felt obliged to post about it. He did not define what he considers high fat, AFAIK. Some of the things he brought up are things I have read comments about in other places. As KT, posted, it's good to know what might or might not be, so we can make informed choices.


You can ask a question of Peter Dobromylskyj at Hyperlipid, if you'd like to know something specific. The posts and comments at his blog cover just about everything I've wanted to know about Dr. K's diet.


Hope your day is going very nicely.

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Old 05-03-2011, 06:49 AM   #357
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Thanks Auntie Em, I appreciate your interpretation. I honestly, am very concerned that I will never lose this access weight and when I begin to think that there maybe some metobolic factors that may make it impossible, I panic. Not good for my cortisol levels -
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Old 05-03-2011, 07:35 AM   #358
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Don was brave to address this (look at the comments for rxn from the paleo/lc community), but someone needed to do it.

These forums are filled w peop (esp women) who stall after a honeymoon period. They try every plan but don't lower fat because high fat is the only healthy way.

Then there are lc friends who follow vlc and have a heart attack. Is it the high sat fat? High cystine (sp)? Lack of balanced nutrients?
But maybe there was already heart disease.....Well this perfect diet should not make one's health worse!!

And then there's 'rabbit starvation'....Really? If you have any body fat, there's no chance!!

Then if you poke around, you'll find peop who had increased inflammation and weight gain/stall on high fat so reduced it....not so much low fat but just less fat.
Decreased obvious inflammation such as heartburn/indigestion and pain AND lost weight.

All I'm saying is that just because some lc'er blogged about some studies does not make it so. We all tend to cherry pick to fit our lifestyle.
But it does not make sense to keep doing something that does not work.
This is not different from vegans who swear by it while health fails.

Not to bash any of these high fat recommendations but just like LF does not work for everyone, same w HF.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:56 AM   #359
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Heh, interesting discussion!

I like a brave paleo blogger. Don's article led to interesting discussion.

The Venus artifact is not indicative of anything. I remember this from one of my art history classes in college. Hmph, I thought it was some primitive over-feeding ritual, probably conducted on someone that showed promise for gaining weight young. There are genetic disorders certainly, one such child would be ripe for selection.

Women absolutely have more problems losing weight. Taubes talks about this - at puberty, women's hormones create fat storage, men's create muscle.

Women can't just drop weight easily for cutting calories, we would never have survived multiple childbirths, and women are thought, for most of history, to have spent a good part of their lives in lactation. Think about that! We are genetically primed to survive most of our lives while pregnant or feeding a little one with our bodies, ladies, out of the fat stores!

I have noticed some people do better on higher carbs. I think there are probably a lot of good explanations for this, T4 to T3 conversion issues (Peats), high cortisol/stress, perhaps brain chemistry, and who knows what other metabolic explanations there could be.

I have noticed in myself I lose weight better after a little hiatus (as in a long weekend, like last Thanksgiving!) that does not go on for too long. Perhaps the body needs some sort of signal of plenty once in a while to up the metabolism.

OK, back to a high-fat diet strategy Kwasniewski-style:

I think eating more fat and dropping protein (and holding carbs at 50) primes the body for losing fat. Once one is fully adapted to this high-fat lower (but highest quality) protein, then, one is ready to start dropping some fat from the diet (while holding steady with the 50 carbs and 50 grams of protein) and go to the fat stores for energy.

Kwasniewski seems to say contradictory things in his book. I really interpret this to mean: eat more in the beginning and once adapted to the diet, for weight loss, decrease the fat (but do not drop below 50 mostly egg and other high quality protein and 50 carbs).

I think I am hitting my stride this week. I've replaced the pototoes with sweet potatoes. A few days is not enough to know. But if I feel good, good enough, I am going to eat the bone broth soup with the eggs stirred in as my main food, and start decreasing the avocado. I'm not going to make any sudden moves because I need to avoid metabolic shut down. Been there, done that!

Clackley - do not lose hope! Thing change, they always do. Our bodies are constantly interacting with our environment and the diet. Stress goes up and down. Hang in there.

Auntie Em - I will post what I find on estrogen dominance.

Jem 51 - a friend of mine asked me what I was doing and tried the diet. She has been really sick since starting it. Within weeks she landed in the hospital with kidney stones, and she has been posting on fb how sick she is but won't tell me with what now.

Paleo can't reverse all problems and create perfect health, and there are environmental factors.

I think stress/cortisol possibly is as detrimental as a high bad-carb diet.

Also, I think a lot of LC friends relying on a lot of PUFAs for their fats.

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Old 05-03-2011, 09:03 AM   #360
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Cathy, am sending you lots of good thoughts. Sometimes, I notice that something someone blogs about or posts, can "go in sideways" and be troubling until I find out enough of the science behind what the person posted to be at peace with my own choices. It is why I read Hyperlipid, Archevore, and Evolutionary Psychiatry so often (and re-read Dr. Bernstein's book). Those blogs are full of science and clinical experience helping others. (Dr. Dobromylskyj is a veterinarian.)

Jem51, yes, the cherry picking. Thanks very much for posting what you did. I, too, think it was brave of Don to post about something that goes against the sub-text of "Paleo/Primal will cure all one's ills, automatically make one happy and sleek, etc." which seems to be present some places on the internet.

I cannot eat all the fat I wish. I cannot eat as much of the yoghurt I make from cream as I could easily do. I have to limit calories. These are facts with me. If I eat more than I ought to, I gain weight and feel "crummy", in many ways. I have to keep to Dr. K's weight loss levels of fat or I gain weight. I tried his maintenance ratios. Several have commented at Hyperlipid that Dr. K perhaps intends for people to weigh more than some of us would choose for ourselves. There has been much discussion of Dr. K's ratios, and the macronutrients individually, of both amounts and content, as well as discussion of how could we know what optimal weight is for best health, longevity, etc., and that vanity is a harsh mistress/master.

In some ways, I think it is easier to keep a clean food plan when one is older, because being healthy and not causing oneself troubles seems to naturally fit with aging. Trying many new things, going out to eat with others, and such, is often part of younger years. Of course, that might only apply to some people.

Don's post seems to have stirred several to think about food choices, good science, good manners, etc.

A few thoughts which come to mind, at the moment:

The emotional satisfaction of eating, whether that is due to brain chemicals, or habit, can have a high price. It has taken me decades to find out that I can eat this and not that, and why. I avoid anything which I know would or could be damaging or put hard won progress in jeopardy. I like being in charge of myself, and I have more respect for myself when I am very much in charge of my eating choices.

Some of us have to be much more diligent than others about our food plans. I read the menus of what some of the other maintainers eat, and chuckle. (There is no way I could get away with their food plans.) I am one of those that Dr. MacKarness describes as "Mr. Fatten-easily".

I appreciate having this forum and its community of others who have similar metabolic and health challenges.

Sending you all best wishes for a very lovely day.

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