Weston A. Price Autumn/Winter 2008

[fjeld]

"If civilized man is to survive, he must incorporate the fundamentals of primitive nutritional wisdom into his modern life-style."

Similarities of traditional diets where optimum health was maintained - The Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation

1. In general, all the native foods were found to contain two to six times as high a factor of safety in the matter of body building materials as did the displacing foods brought in by civilization.

2. All groups studied consumed minerals and fat-soluble vitamins from high vitamin butter or from sea foods, cod liver or seal oil, or animal organs with their fat.

3. Foods were grown on soil which was naturally high in minerals, and no chemical fertilizers or pesticides were used.

4. All food was eaten liberally in the natural season in which it grew.

5. Sweets (even good, natural sweets) were used rarely or sparingly, only for occasions of ritual, celebration or special feasting.

6. In each diet there was some daily source of raw, unaltered protein from sources such as meats, sea foods, nuts, cheeses, eggs, milk, or high quality sprouted seeds. (Foods containing essential amino acids must be included in the food choices for each meal, or it will be impossible to assimilate the total values of the incomplete proteins. It is important to balance the amino acid patterns when vegetable proteins are eaten.) Some sort of sea plant or mineral was a part of most diets. Inland sea deposits were treasured and used thriftily.

7. Methods of food preservation and storage were used which altered the nutrients very little: Earth storage, drying, freezing in the cold climates, or making nutrients more available by culturing, pickling, fermenting, or sprouting.

8. Each life style was such that people engaged in vigorous physical exercise on a regular basis, either in work, play, dances, games, sports, or hunting and food-gathering.

9. All had access to pure air and sunlight. Even in the 1930's, Dr. Price perceived the problems of air pollution and lack of sufficient radiant energy from the sun, due to pollution already present at that time. The situation is far worse today, and that has affected the deterioration of our food quality and our health as well.

10. Each group observed periods of partial abstinence from food, or regulated periods of under-eating. For some, this came about as a natural result of summer crops being in short supply before the new crops were harvested. For others, certain rituals began or ended with days of fasting. Still others taught the value of periodic under-eating by taboos or other means.

11. Some diets contained some form of ferments. This would include milk cultures, pickling, and other methods of fermenting. Dr. Pottenger recommended using some of these foods for both children and adults to aid in maintaining good gastric acidity.

12. They all breast-fed their young. Most of them fed special protective foods to their young of child-bearing age in preparation for conception, pregnancy, and lactation. Most of them had some means of spacing the children at least three years apart, to protect the health of the newborns and their mothers.

13. All ate whole foods, not fractionalized parts of foods. They did not remove the fiber content of their natural foods by refining them. Most foods were eaten raw or very gently and lightly cooked.

14. Last but not least, the primitives were able to instruct their young in these important principles, thereby protecting their genetic heritage. They ate the foods of their ancestors.

(Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation)


Characteristics of Traditional Diets - Weston A. Price Foundation

1. The diets of healthy primitive and nonindustrialized peoples contain no refined or denatured foods such as refined sugar or corn syrup; white flour; canned foods; pasteurized, homogenized, skim or low-fat milk; refined or hydrogenated vegetable oils; protein powders; artificial vitamins or toxic additives and colorings.

2. All traditional cultures consume some sort of animal protein and fat from fish and other seafood; water and land fowl; land animals; eggs; milk and milk products; reptiles; and insects.

3. Primitive diets contain at least four times the calcium and other minerals and TEN times the fat soluble vitamins from animal fats (vitamin A, vitamin D and the Price Factor--now believed to be vitamin K2) as the average American diet.

4. In all traditional cultures, some animal products are eaten raw.

5. Primitive and traditional diets have a high food-enzyme content from raw dairy products, raw meat and fish; raw honey; tropical fruits; cold-pressed oils; wine and unpasteurized beer; and naturally preserved, lacto-fermented vegetables, fruits, beverages, meats and condiments.

6. Seeds, grains and nuts are soaked, sprouted, fermented or naturally leavened in order to neutralize naturally occuring antinutrients in these foods, such as phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, tannins and complex carbohydrates.

7. Total fat content of traditional diets varies from 30% to 80% but only about 4% of calories come from polyunsaturated oils naturally occurring in grains, pulses, nuts, fish, animal fats and vegetables. The balance of fat calories is in the form of saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids.

8. Traditional diets contain nearly equal amounts of omega-6 and omega-3 essential fatty acids.

9. All primitive diets contain some salt.

10. Tradtional cultures consume animal bones, usually in the form of gelatin-rich bone broths.

11. Traditional cultures make provisions for the health of future generations by providing special nutrient-rich foods for parents-to-be, pregnant women and growing children; by proper spacing of children; and by teaching the principles of right diet to the young.

Weston A. Price Foundation

[Ailuros]

Thank you for starting this. I must dig out my Nourishing Traditions and have a look through - it's been a while since I browsed it, and I'm sure I'll pick up some things I haven't noticed on previous readings.

[fjeld]

It's been a year since Weasel started the W A P Autumn/Winter thread 2007 so I thought it was high time for a 2008 Autumn/Winter thread.

In my search for a sustainable WOE I tend to always come back to IF and WAP, and I find this (from the lists in the previous post) of particular interest to IF-ers:

"Each group observed periods of partial abstinence from food, or regulated periods of under-eating. For some, this came about as a natural result of summer crops being in short supply before the new crops were harvested. For others, certain rituals began or ended with days of fasting. Still others taught the value of periodic under-eating by taboos or other means."

I'm hoping to find balance in my eating, silencing carbophobic as well as carboholic thinking.

Right now, I'm soaking brown rice and sunflower seeds (both with some ACV) and yes, I will be having some slices of oven-baked potatoes with my salmon, green beans and avocado-carrot-cucumber salad tonight

And I'm planning space in the fridge to stock up on lactic acid fermented cabbage and cucumbers

I'm glad you joined Ailuros!

[fjeld]

I saw that there is another WAP thread but it explicitly states lo carb, which is why I started a new thread. I find it very hard to define what lo carb is since it depends what you compare with. Personally, I would prefer to follow WAP as is and not get in to too much of the "carbs or not" discussion. A discussion that is not helping me find a balanced WOE nor a balanced way of thinking about food

Of course anyone is welcome to post here no matter how you use the WAP findings/principles, I just wanted an WAP thread that simply stated: WAP

[fjeld]

Today I had a good eating day. I had:

a raw egg yolk, kelp, bread with butter and mackerel, cucumber and green tea for brunch

mixed full fat yogurt, cream, a raw egg yolk, berries, soaked sunflower seeds and an apple for a drink in the afternoon

had a pear, salmon with butter, a salad of carrots, avacado, onions and cucumber with olive oil/lemon juice dressing, and halved small new potatoes with skin baked in the oven with olive oil and seasoning. A cup of cocoa with cream after.

It was really good. I've had no cravings today and have not wanted to over-eat. Not even in the evening. A real relief compared to how it's been for a long time now

It's early days and impatient and sidetracking thoughts of quicker weight loss diets will get loud again, but today was good.

[Ailuros]

I used to enjoy mixing a raw egg with yoghurt, too, but I had to stop because I noticed that my throat, mouth and lips were itchy and a bit swollen immediately afterwards. It doesn't seem to happen if the egg is cooked, but I'm not so keen on cooked eggs (though I do have them occasionally, and it's nice to be able to use them in recipes).

I had some pickled herring - and there's more in the fridge that I'll finish over the next few days. Yesterday I had it with a rolled oatcake (an old English recipe) and dill/mustard/cultured cream).

I must see if I can get some cabbage at the farmers market at the weekend, to get a supply of sauerkraut going again.

[fjeld]

I'm glad you're posting Ailuros. You seem more experienced with this WOE than I am and it's very inspirational to hear about the experiences of a maintainer. I'm somewhere between 5-9 kilos (~11-19 pounds) over my goal weight. I'll weigh again after I've eaten this way for a week or two and we'll see what the scale says. But it's more important for me now to try and find a sustainable WOE than lose weight instantly. "Instantly" meaning never...


About raw egg yolks, I usually just crack the egg into my palm, rinse off the white and swallow them whole with water. I find the taste of yolks a bit too strong. I rely on them a lot for animal protein since I don't eat red meat or pork (was a vegetarian for a long time).

I probably won't be able to get any saurkraut for a while (please share your recipe if you like) but I made a type of cabbage salad today that I really like:

cut a cabbage in half and slice with a cheese slicer
add a or a half sliced red bell pepper
mix in a bowl with lemon juice, olive oil and sea salt (and black pepper if you like)

I don't use any set amounts of the ingredients but it should be a lot more sliced cabbage than bell pepper. It keeps in the fridge for about two days.


Today has been a good day eating wise as well. I'm off to make dinner now which will be fried brown rice with shrimps and a salad.

[Ailuros]

I'm keen on traditional food, but I don't follow WAP meticulously. I didn't really look at it very much until I was pretty much at maintenance, so I don't have any experience of using while losing more than a couple of kilos.

I was also a vegetarian for a long time. I think I do better with some animal protein, but I don't like eating large amounts of it for meal after meal, and my husband starts rebelling if I feed him too much meat (unless it's parma ham ).

To make sauerkraut, I chop a cabbage finely (by hand or using the slicing attachment on my mixer or food processor - depending on my mood). Put it in a large bowl and add a Tbsp of salt and one of carraway, then pound it with a pestle until there's a reasonable amount of liquid in the bottom of the bowl. You can add a couple of Tbs of whey to help start the lactic fermentation, but it's not necessary (I just use the liquid that comes off yoghurt if I'm not actively producing whey at the time). Pack it tightly into storage jars. I use the kind with wired on lids and rubber seals - they'll let any gas out without exploding . Leave it for a few days at room temperature, then store somewhere cooler for a month or more until you want to eat it.

The first time I made it, I opened the jar after a few days and it smelt so revolting, that I just decided to throw the whole thing away, but it wasn't bin collection day, so I put the jar back on the shelf in the kitchen for emptying on the right day, and forgot about it for weeks. When I very gingerly opened it, it had a perfectly clean sauerkraut smell, and tasted fine, so don't try to sample it too soon!

I had some of the pickled herring for lunch today, with soda bread. I think I'll have porridge tomorrow morning, so I'd better remember to soak some oats before I go to bed.

[RW City Sue]

Originally Posted by fjeld

In my search for a sustainable WOE I tend to always come back to IF and WAP, and I find this of particular interest to IF-ers:

"Each group observed periods of partial abstinence from food, or regulated periods of under-eating. For some, this came about as a natural result of summer crops being in short supply before the new crops were harvested. For others, certain rituals began or ended with days of fasting. Still others taught the value of periodic under-eating by taboos or other means."

I'm hoping to find balance in my eating, silencing carbophobic as well as carboholic thinking.

Hi fjeld, I dropped in to read this thread and I find it very interesting. I'm looking to make the most of my food choices now that I have some semblance of control given back to me thru doing IF. I look forward to learning more.

Ailuros, I also have a copy of Nourishing Traditions that I need to revisit. Thank you for the info on making sauerkraut, the herring sounds good to me also.

Sue

[Ailuros]

Hello, Sue .

I didn't do at all well with IF, but what I did learn from it was that it's OK if I miss the odd meal. Generally, though, I do better on 3/4 meals per day. My husband is fine on 1/2 meals, but on IF I became obsessed with thinking about food every moment. The thing that really disturbed me was that I found myself trying to make the gaps longer and the meals smaller, and trying to hide what I was doing from my husband - I could just feel how easily it could tip over into an eating disorder, and that's not something I've ever suffered from. I don't want to put people off who do well on IF, but it's not for me.

[RW City Sue]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

I didn't do at all well with IF - I could just feel how easily it could tip over into an eating disorder, and that's not something I've ever suffered from. I don't want to put people off who do well on IF, but it's not for me.

It is interesting to see how our individual psychology responds to each different woe. I know I have gone thru a lot of trial and error over the years to find what does and doesn't work for me. I think it is quite wise of you to back off from something that was starting to feel like disordered eating--once over into that realm, it is difficult to find one's way out. I am actually quite surprised how well I've taken to IF. I started it 7/31 sort of on a lark and it just happened to be something that was a fit for me.

I do like this thread--it seems like I am always looking to learn what foods make me feel well and also satisfy me emotionally.

Sue

[fjeld]

Glad to see you here Sue! I'm hoping to find some balance in my WOE by following some of these principles. Like Ailuros, I'm not a big meat eater and feel unwell/nauseous if I eat too much of any animal protein. It's still a bit of a moral dilemma for me after being a vegetarian for so long, but I'm thinking if I only take what I need, that's fine.

My favourite meat is fish, I could eat fish of the fat kinds every day, but don't dare to. It's what we've done to our oceans considering how dependent we are on them for our nourishment.


IF works well for me when done about one day a week, as well as skipping breakfast every day. I did not feel well on Fast-5, mostly due to the stress I felt in my window. I also tended to over-eat and obsess about my food a lot. The way I use IF is to juice fast for a whole day, drinking some cucumber/broccoli juice and some vegetable broth.

My energy seems to be coming back. I've been very inactive for weeks but yesterday I spent a couple of hours gardening and today I went for a long walk with my dog, who seemed both surprised () and very happy.


Thanks for the cabbage recipe Ailuros. Is that how you tell if it's eatible, by the smell? In that case I just threw away a whole jar of lovely lacto fermented cabbage The expiration date said last year sometime but it hadn't been opened and had been in the fridge the whole time. Smelt really nice too!

[lindaokc]

Hi there
Thought I would stop by since I adore WAP foundation and Mary Enig and Sally Fallon. Because of them, I only buy grass fed beef and eat more whole foods now.

Wish I could stay away from the animal proteins so much, but I love them, and sometimes, if I have the protein, I would rather just go without the veggies. I try to get raw veggies in my egg creams where I can't find them I do pretty good that way.

I am trying to do the I.F., haven't been very successful this past week/off & on, but think I"m back in the groove now. It has really helped me w/ snacking, since I'm a terrible sweet eater and graze when I can. I ALWAYS get too much food when left to my own devices.

Good to see this thread up and running.

[fjeld]

Hello Linda! I'm glad you decided to visit.

Some of us need a lot of meat, some of us less, so I hope you don't feel bad about that. It's good that you've found your balance. Personally I'm convinced the majority of humans need animal protein. I might wish it were otherwise, but it seems to be our evolutionary reality.

You know, I'm actually thinking of eating some red meat Like in a tomatoe and minced meat sauce. I make it for my SO and it really smells nice. I used to eat soy and quorn fake meat products when I was a vegetarian but I wouldn't touch that stuff now.

I'm glad IF is helping you to not graze. By the way, I did an unplanned Fast-4 today because I just didn't feel like eating until after 5. Was a bit surprised about that


I'm sticking to whole foods. I have angst about my weight but I feel better overall. Eating whole foods naturally limits my choices when it comes to stuff like sugar for ex. and instead gives me other and better options. Like when I made a cake from just whole spelt wheat flour, butter, cinnamon, eggs and grated apples for Christmas last year It was delicious and festive, not to a true gourmet maybe but to me.

[Ailuros]

I really do enjoy some red meat, and I often like it very rare, and it doesn't have to be disguised - but I don't want to eat it for meal after meal. Today I had yoghurt and blueberries for breakfast; shrimp, mayo & salad for lunch, with a slice of wholemeal bread; and beef stew for dinner. That's a fairly typical sort of distribution for me - a veggie meal, a fish one and a meat one.

[lindaokc]

Good morning everyone,

Since I am doing I.F. along w/ WAP, I am not eating until my "window" opens at 1 PM. Thinking of an egg cream then. I put a HUGE pork roast in the crock pot, so I know what supper will be. Think I will saute some cabbage to go with that, throw some bacon in it and finish off w/ heavy cream. When I cook it like that I can't seem to get enough of it

Had an egg cream yesterday when my window opened and then fish fillet dredged in pecan meal and cooked in coconut oil. It was yummy.

Scale was down this morning, .75 lbs. I am right in a range that is a set point for me, 162-165. Right now I am sitting on 164.25. Wish I could break through. I might need to lower my calories but I don't want to. Of course

[fjeld]

I had oatmeal porridge (pre-soaked the oats with a tbs of ACV since yesterday and added sea salt, butter and cinnamon after cooking slowly) with blueberries, full fat yogurth with some vanilla essence and an apple, for brunch today. And I had two raw egg yolks and some sea weed with lemon juice.

Dinner will probably be salmon but might turn in to going out for Chinese, because I have very vivid fantasies of vegetarian springrolls and some very spicy chicken Schezuan (minus the MSG of course).

I still haven't worked up to eating some red meat but I am also having some vivid fantasies of lasagne. We have organic minced meat in the freezer, so maybe...

Eat well and have a lovely day everyone!

[lindaokc]

Well, good morning

Food has not been the best that past couple of days, or yesterday, for sure. Ate outside my window and had too many fruits.

fjeld, do you get the grass fed beef? I just joined an Oklahoma Co-op this summer and found they had some, so I order what we want every month. We have a 1/4 grass fed beef coming in October sometime that we ordered before we found the co-op. Beef, pork and chicken are our favorite foods. I can also get raw butter, organic free range eggs and cheeses, also produce in season. I can't buy raw milk through the co-op though, as our laws only allow raw milk to be bought on the farm. The closest one I can find is 50 miles round trip. Makes for pretty expensive milk.

Not sure what today brings. I have some chili thawed out in the fridge that I took out of the freezer since it turned cooler. Had that for supper last night and there is still some left.

[Ailuros]

We had pea and ham soup for lunch - made from dried split peas and pork stock, with smoked bacon. It's very comforting food.

[RW City Sue]

Hello, it has been quiet in here lately. How is everyone doing?

Originally Posted by fjeld

I still haven't worked up to eating some red meat but I am also having some vivid fantasies of lasagne. We have organic minced meat in the freezer, so maybe...

fjeld, I found bison at Whole Foods this week and tried it instead of beef in a taco salad.

Ailuros, your comfort food sounds tasty.

Hi Linda, I see you have been visiting over here from IF too.

I'm still searching around for my Nourishing Traditions Book--you know you have too many books when you can't find a big book like that

Sue

[fjeld]

Hello Ailuros, Linda and Sue! And to anyone else reading the thread

I've been taking a break from the forum for a couple of reasons. Like many have stated before me, sometimes it's good to take a break from food thoughts. I tend to obsess about it, especially the carbs versus protein/fat deal.

I'm eating pretty well and I try to have a fasting day/calorie restricted day once or twice a week. I think I'm doing what could be called intermittent calorie restriction, ICR. The science behind this practise is interesting and impressive, and incredibly enough, very doable. I could never calorie restrict every day or do an alternate day diet where I'd eat nothing or very little every other day. It seems it's not necessary either to reap the benefits of CR. Or to lose/maintain weight.

Usually on these IF/ICR days I mainly eat raw vegetables and a little fruit, drink some raw vegetable juice and broth.


On eating days I try to eat well and what I really want, which includes bread, potatoes and other carbs and I eat these with protein and lots of veggies. And I eat chips and chocolate some times, after a meal. No depriving myself or using "ersats" foods that just don't make me feel satisfied.



Sue and Linda Bison I don't think you can find that in my part of the world. What does it taste like? Like wild meat? I don't know if the organic meat we buy here is grass fed or not, will definitely have to check that out.

And try to get in contact with a farmer from whom we can but raw butter, cream etc. It's forbidden here, but I believe if you "buy part of a cow" you're allowed to buy raw milk etc.

Ailuros Aaah, pea soup is so good! I love it with peices of carrots and with mustard. Pork would probably make it taste even better, but I haven't even gotten around to eating red meat yet...

[lindaokc]

You can probably find bison at the health food store, fjeld. They have it in the freezer at our health food store. It tastes like beef, only better. It's not cheap, so the only way we eat it is hamburgers. I've actually quit buying it since we have gone to the grass fed beef. The taste is somewhat richer than beef, but it's VERY low in fat, lower than chicken and higher in the good stuff *I don't remember what that is now* since it's been awhile since I've gotten any.

I haven't been doing too good on eating, eating sugar, too many calories, etc. for the past week. That's one reason I haven't been posting. Binging and having a food orgy is not good for the scale and I gained....a lot. However, the girls on I.F. gave me a much needed boost so I'm back on board w/the I.F. now and doing much better.

I made a run to the SuperTarget today and stocked up on the Fage yogurt, can't find it in town and have to go to the next town. Also bought some lite coconut milk for my egg creams. Also the 85% chocolate. The I.F. girls got me started on that and I really like it now. Still doing the higher fat/low carb plan, no grains, only low carb veggies, like spinach and broccoli, romaine, etc.

[Ailuros]

I've never seen bison over here. Or buffalo, though there's buffalo milk and mozzarella, so I suppose somebody's eating them.

[lindaokc]

Now there's a switch. I didn't know they even milked buffalo Never heard of buffalo milk or cheese.
Where is "over here"?