Fat loss with ketogenic: cyclical & targeted ketogenic w/weight training

[amiga74]

hi!
just start at the beginning of the thread. i promise all the info is here, in the first few pages. the math is not that hard. its just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. use a calculator!

I agree with Hummingbird about exercise. Atkins is a ketogenic plan and it would be a great place for you to start, because Atkins and the ketogenic plan require you count your carbs. The main diff btwn Atkins and ketogenic is that for exercisers, the ketogenic plan has a carb eating phase. Atkins does not.
I like SB too, you don't count carbs or anything on the plan. just stick to the list of foods and portion sizes.

best of luck!

[inatic]

if you arent exercising you could consider PSMF another plan by lyle mcdonald. This is considered a RAPID loss plan but has saftey's built in. It has some free meals (depending on leaness/bf) and refeeds built in, diet breaks etc. That plan is also more condusive to the non exercisers.

There is a LONG thread here somewhere.

Note PSMF cannot be used long term without taking breaks. If you dont plan to follow the rules as stated in that plan, dont do it.

Or you could try the flexible diet also by lyle Mcd.

[sid79]

Originally Posted by amiga74

hi!
just start at the beginning of the thread. i promise all the info is here, in the first few pages. the math is not that hard. its just addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. use a calculator!

I agree with Hummingbird about exercise. Atkins is a ketogenic plan and it would be a great place for you to start, because Atkins and the ketogenic plan require you count your carbs. The main diff btwn Atkins and ketogenic is that for exercisers, the ketogenic plan has a carb eating phase. Atkins does not.
I like SB too, you don't count carbs or anything on the plan. just stick to the list of foods and portion sizes.

best of luck!

Thanks for your messages Amiga74 and inatic... I have started reading this thread and decided to stick to Atkins for a few weeks and gradually move on to Ketogenic plan coz it is kinda extreme for me
My main problem on Atkins is breakfast!!! I know eggs, sausages are allowed but i need fiber and a few carbs to get my day going... i dont eat white bread though... it's always whole wheat for me but i think i should cut down on that as well.
So far my weight has been *stuck* on 145lbs and no matter what i do... it doesnt budge... sooo frustrating !!! I'll post back in a month if there's any progress.
Anyhoo.... thanks alot for your advice and support. Really appreciate it !

[inatic]

add in some spinach or greens into those eggs. a few strawberries. Have you moved out of induction?

How long have you been dieting. Take a diet break and eat maintaince cals. On that note, are you tracking cals? Make sure you not eating too little, with the addition of induction, that will slow your thyroid down.

[sid79]

Originally Posted by inatic

add in some spinach or greens into those eggs. a few strawberries. Have you moved out of induction?

How long have you been dieting. Take a diet break and eat maintaince cals. On that note, are you tracking cals? Make sure you not eating too little, with the addition of induction, that will slow your thyroid down.

No inatic... i haven't.. that's why i said before that i'm cheating (well, sort of)... but now i'm determined to follow it strictly and will see if i can keep it up. One thing i need to work on is keeping track of my cals... i dont think i'm consuming enough calories bcoz on this diet i dont feel that hungry and usually eat 2 or sometimes 3 meals a day!
I'm thinking of gradually switching to ketogenic plan after a few weeks or so.... considering it requires ALOT of hardwork and determination! Lets see how that turns out... but at the moment i'm sticking to Atkins !

[amiga74]

Atkins is a ketogenic plan.
have you tried the one-minute muffin?
it is made with flax meal. if you do a search you will find the recipe.

[dbunny]

Hi Amiga!
Long time no see! I am back at it again after a little "break" that ended up lasting 6 months. I started and stopped about 5 times before I realized that I can't do this without some support~ mainly from this website! Glad to see you here, and I am happy to be back.
Hi Btinc

down 4 pounds from Monday!- 6 to go from to original lowest weight!

[hummingbird11]

Amiga, just to clarify for Sid79 (and me):

Atkins = Ketogenic BUT this thread is about Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD) & Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD), correct? And TKD & CKD both have a lowfat carb eating refeed (for exercisers only) ~ is that correct?

Sid79, to ensure that you're eating enough calories (not too many; not too few) while on Induction and beyond, you may want to check-out this thread: BMR!!! Eating To your BMR... No Matter What!

[sid79]

Originally Posted by hummingbird11

Amiga, just to clarify for Sid79 (and me):

Atkins = Ketogenic BUT this thread is about Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD) & Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD), correct? And TKD & CKD both have a lowfat carb eating refeed (for exercisers only) ~ is that correct?

Sid79, to ensure that you're eating enough calories (not too many; not too few) while on Induction and beyond, you may want to check-out this thread: BMR!!! Eating To your BMR... No Matter What!

Thanks for the link Hummingbird11... its VERY informative... especially for me! And i agree... ketogenic may be Atkins... but its rather extreme and there is a minor difference between the two.

[hummingbird11]

YAVW!

I think Atkins Induction + Eating To Your BMR is a GREAT place for you to start! Please stay in touch & keep us posted on your progress!

Originally Posted by sid79

Thanks for the link Hummingbird11... its VERY informative... especially for me! And i agree... ketogenic may be Atkins... but its rather extreme and there is a minor difference between the two.

[amiga74]

i guess i object to the notion that a ketogenic is "extreme". what does that mean? it doesn't seem that different to me than Atkins, for the majority of the time. Yes, Hummingbird, this thread was originally intended for folks that were going to incorporate lowfat higher carb refeeds on a weeklyish basis or to take in some carbs around a workout, the point being to maintain performance. Though Atkins recommends exercise, not everyone does it, and this thread emphasized the importance of exercise. It was also started as an alternative to psmf, with a higher daily calorie target, generally recommending BWX12 as a starting point, though of course, everyone should determine their #s through trial and error.

[amiga74]

Originally Posted by dbunny

Hi Amiga!
Long time no see! I am back at it again after a little "break" that ended up lasting 6 months. I started and stopped about 5 times before I realized that I can't do this without some support~ mainly from this website! Glad to see you here, and I am happy to be back.
Hi Btinc

down 4 pounds from Monday!- 6 to go from to original lowest weight!

Dbunny!
its great to "see" you! i'm not doing keto but i can be here to support!

[sid79]

Originally Posted by hummingbird11

YAVW!

I think Atkins Induction + Eating To Your BMR is a GREAT place for you to start! Please stay in touch & keep us posted on your progress!

Will do Thanks to everyone who replied for your support and encouragement ! Good luck to you all

[hummingbird11]

I agree. Only diff I can see btwn Atkins & CKD/TKD is the lowfat/highcarb weekly-ish refeeds AND the fact that exercise is even MORE critical on CKD/TKD than Atkins.

Amiga, I'm curious, why R U no longer doing Keto?

Originally Posted by amiga74

i guess i object to the notion that a ketogenic is "extreme". what does that mean? it doesn't seem that different to me than Atkins, for the majority of the time. Yes, Hummingbird, this thread was originally intended for folks that were going to incorporate lowfat higher carb refeeds on a weeklyish basis or to take in some carbs around a workout, the point being to maintain performance. Though Atkins recommends exercise, not everyone does it, and this thread emphasized the importance of exercise. It was also started as an alternative to psmf, with a higher daily calorie target, generally recommending BWX12 as a starting point, though of course, everyone should determine their #s through trial and error.

[amiga74]

it was too restrictive for me wrt food choices and so i got into a cycle of restricting and bingeing.
i have a hard time with all the fat as well. i don't enjoysausages, bacon, mayo, or eggs. I love beans -lentils, black beans, etc. & they are good for you! i love vegetables and fruits. in ketosis i always felt terrible. For me at least, a moderate approach where i eat foods that i enjoy and monitor calories is working out better!

the problem was never the vegetables, beans, fruits, yogurts or oats, but the junk, kwim?

[Meekness29]

What does KWIM mean???

[inatic]

KWIM= know what i mean.

[Meekness29]

Originally Posted by inatic

KWIM= know what i mean.

LOL!!!!

Thanks

[hummingbird11]

I know what you mean, jelly bean!
and I too, adore fruit & veggies!
oh esp the berries of summer - yum!

Originally Posted by amiga74

it was too restrictive for me wrt food choices and so i got into a cycle of restricting and bingeing.
i have a hard time with all the fat as well. i don't enjoy sausages, bacon, mayo, or eggs. I love beans -lentils, black beans, etc. & they are good for you! i love vegetables and fruits. in ketosis i always felt terrible. For me at least, a moderate approach where i eat foods that i enjoy and monitor calories is working out better!

the problem was never the vegetables, beans, fruits, yogurts or oats, but the junk, kwim?

[amiga74]

thanks Ileen for explaining

Hi Hummingbird! lol! it took me forever to figure out TIA (thanks in advance)
yes, berries rock! and they are lower carb with great fiber!

[hummingbird11]

Aloha! After my Big B'Day Bash on May 31 - we left for Kona on 6/6.

I returned on 6/15 w/ a nice virus that kept me pretty sick for a week.
AND eating "carby": LOTS of Ezekiel bread cinnamon toast + hot tea w/ honey.
FINALLY started feeling "human" again this weekend...

Here's to GETTING BACK ON TRACK w/ FOCUSED DAMAGE CONTROL MEASURES !!!!!
(for me, back to LC yesterday)

Brief "diet breaks" can be good for your metabolism. Btinc advised me to "shake it up" while I was "away": Alternate eating low/high calories on different days + eating at different times of day + Alternate days of high fat/low carb + low fat/high carb. I ate pretty LC (most days) but there were a LOT of "adult beverages"! And of course I did NOT track ANY of this! No time/No energy. In fact, I'm not gonna start tracking my “macros” again till July 1st. No time/No energy. (end of fiscal year at work…ugh)

Anyway, I think the “shake it up” approach is what helped me to basically eat/drink whatever/whenever I wanted, yet not gain any "real" weight over the 10 days while I was "away" (not even going to refer to it as "vacation" as we worked our ARSES off!) We're going back in November (over Thanksgiving w/ my MOM) to RELAX & ENJOY the fruits of our labor during this trip!



I came back on 6/15 at 171 lbs ~ but it was ALL lymph fluid - all 6 lbs!
Within a week, I'm back down to my profile weight of 165 lbs!
And determined to see 159 SOON !!!!!

XO,
HB

[hummingbird11]

OMG - me too! TIA and HTH - I was like what??

(TIA is actually a medical acronym for the temporary interruption of blood flow to an area of the brain!)

Originally Posted by amiga74

lol! it took me forever to figure out TIA (thanks in advance)

[Meekness29]

posting to subscribe, once again.

I'mma give Keto a shot on tomorrow. I plan to do 12 DAY CLEAN INDUCTION followed by DEPLETION WORK OUT and 24 HOUR REFEED.

Does anyone have any valuable advice for a beginner??? If so, please share.

Thanks in advance.

[WATCH-ME-SHRINK]

POST NO. 9

"The depletion workout is a very important part of making the ketogenic diet work. The idea is depleting all the remaining glucose from the body so you can saturate the muscles during your refeed process.

For the sake of argument lets say you are going to do a 24 hour refeed on Saturday, and you have low carb Monday thru Friday and did your normal workouts and you get to saturday refeed day. First thing is before the work out you need to get 50-75 grams of carbs to break any cycle of ketosis you may be in. This will put the body in the mode of burning glucose for fuel instead of fat. Then you will go into your workout, this workout will cause you to deplete all remaining glucose in the muscle and liver.

To do this you need to have a good resistance workout, it is a proven fact that when you exert force by moving weighted objects you will deplete all remaining glucose. You can do this by doing circuit training or just your regular weight training workout. The normal thought is circuit training and upping your volume and cutting the amount of weight you lift in half. I have found that you can do which ever one you like, just make sure when the work out is over you have put in a minimum of 15 quality sets with repetitions in 8-12 range at a faster than normal pace.

Once your workouts are over you can now start your refeed, and here is the beauty once the last of the glucose is depleted your body goes back in to a fat burning mode and using fat for energy. Now you start to eat carbs that will saturate the muscle and liver with glucose. During this process the body is trying to get as much in the muscle as possible that it continues to rely on fat for energy. Now that you have started the refeed you have raised the leptin hormone and the body metabolism is racing high and you go back to low carb and the body continues to release body fat.
The depletion workout can be done with HITT cardio, but a resistance workout has been proven to be the best at clearing glucose.

I have also found that some kind of workout the day after the refeed very beneficial at starting the fat burning process....." Btinc
__________________

Quite simply, no one says it better.

A piece of high GI fruit before the D. workout will work well.

Other than that, I would just focus on keeping carbs this week 20-30 range, and follow the guidelines in Post No. 1 for protein, fat and calorie requirements.

Best of luck.