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Old 10-04-2011, 10:04 AM   #211
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yeah, they do feel different.

I'm having a salad with kefir cheese. I'm making lemonade out of lemons. when my 2F leaked, it leaked out all the whey, and left behind the curds which curdled more because it was warm. so I have a really soft cheese somewhere between cottage and thick sour cream. It's sweet tasting and sour and creamy in texture. So it wasn't a total loss.

I've doubled the milk for my grains. I can't seem to find my jars to make two separate 1F jars, so I just added more milk since Ihave so many grains and I'm letting my 2F sit out, Right side up, to start my fizz factory again. When I find my other jars I'll split the grains for a slower ferment and fridge storage.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:26 AM   #212
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The kefir cheese sounds good! It does seem to make a lot of whey in the 2F.

Hm....something went a little wrong in my current 2F jar. It tastes quite bitter, almost like grapefruit. I think I left the dried fruit in too long maybe. It had dried goji berries, raisins, a dried fig, dried pineapple, bee pollen, cinammon, and I think I put in some red clover and/or rose hips. Something about the taste makes me think it is either the raisins or the pineapple that caused the bitterness.

eta...hm...this bitter milk kefir 2F seems to have very relaxing properties. Maybe it formed some unique compounds from all those ingredients. It doesn't taste very good though. As long as I don't get sick from it I'll be happy.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:35 AM   #213
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Rule of thumb all cooks need to know... & my grqndaughter repeats it to me every time we cook - You can always add but you can't take out! Try one thing & add a second then third etc otherwise you may never know which didn't work.

Did you drink it? I choke down 98% of all my errors
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:52 AM   #214
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Well ok lesson learned! It's not terrible, it's just a pretty strong grapefruit like taste. I did drink it. I had tasted it yesterday and it was not bitter like that, so I think that must have come on in the last 24 hours. I still feel good so I dont' think it is going to make me sick. It is very very fizzy right now.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:57 PM   #215
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I went through and tasted each additive to the milk kefir. I believe it is the goji berries that created the bitter taste. Or possibly the pineapple. The raisins do not taste bitter, and the fig does not taste bitter. The goji tastes bitter. The pineapple tastes bitter, but it might have just soaked up bitterness from the kefir.

Ok, just 2-1/2 gallons of this bitter to get down and then back on to the quality tasty stuff! I tried adding a little fresh milk to it to cut the bitterness, but at the same time it will just increase the amount I need to consume to get past it.

Two grain sources for the 'super strain' are on their second batch now. The first has a slight acetone odor in each, but that is to be expected due to dominance of the yeasts initially.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:07 PM   #216
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I remember when I rehydrated my WKG they s,elled like sulpher for a long time & CFH could not tell me why. That is why I will never get dehydrated grains or SCOBYs... I had to get fresh grains to be able to "gift" - sad!

& now I have a Metqa SCOBY & fat baby growing, so I am all set.

I never had a problem with smells when my live grains came.

Will follow the "super strain" keep posting... Got the priming done today-Rob is coming tonight to cut notch out of staircase & reinforce it so I can move my sauna under it- tomorrow it is caulk the stairs & paint the walls. Monday I hope to get wall paper done. ttuesday I order new windows for downstairs. Lots of work & $ but will be so worth it for when the family moves in & after they move out! Found 2 awesome ceiling fans for $100-$125 off- got each @ $20... Right place-right time for a change
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:34 PM   #217
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Oh my gosh, You're busy!! Great deal on the ceiling fans. they are expensive.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:56 PM   #218
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Nice score on the ceiling fans!

I set up 7 small test jars to find out what is going bitter in the milk kefir, cinnamon, figs, raisins, clover blossom, rose hips, and/or pineapple.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:42 PM   #219
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Put lemon zest strips in a quart of 24 hour kefir today. Popped it into the fridge as it had not yet started to separate. I am going to leave it there a week or more & will let you know... The kefir was thick like a milk shake when I strained it.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:50 PM   #220
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My 2F jar recovered nicely. Only half a day out and half a day in the Fridge. I took a sip while BF was sitting nearby and did a "Hooowweeeeee!" Yip. It was soo fizzy.

Faithful, I'm loving my kefir, thanks a bunch for sending me some, it's been such a fun experience drinking kefir MILK! My BF looked at me funny, I said, My milk is really fizzy! and he looked at me sideways!

I had a baloney, cheddar, Fried egg, pesto and kefir cheese sandwich yesterday! tart and tangy smooth and creamy!
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:56 AM   #221
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That sounds good! It does get super fizzy doesn't it! Yes thanks faithful!

After day 2 or so, I've been adding a little fresh milk or that day's kefir to that 2F jar. It seems to help keep the organisms happy and making nice fizz.

I'm through with the bitter kefir that got produced, most likely from the goji berries and pineapple, though I think the raisins did it a little bit too. I did end up dumping some of it because it just got too rough.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:03 PM   #222
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Goji berries!!! I got some dried from Asian market today. They are really sweet but don't have added sugar. I was going to put some in kefir. I wonder now.

I am still thinking of you trying to drink bitter stuff. I wonder how you get your bitters down.. I'm sorry it is funny! Glad you dumped it!
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:45 PM   #223
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hahaha. Well the bitters are just one or two drops at a time. That is much different from trying to force yourself to drink 2-1/2 gallons of bitter liquid! Even though I did feel very good after I drank it, there was definitely something nice in there.

I have a test going on seven separate 2F MK jars to find out which of them are making the brew bitter. The gogi berries start out sweet tasting, but after their sugar is consumed at about day 2 of the second ferment, I think that's when the bitterness comes out.

On the plus side, the gogi berries seem to work OK in WKG/SKG. I didn't notice that kind of bitterness from them there.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:16 PM   #224
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I totally understand-I could just picture myself as you going to puck up a glass & saying I just can't do it! That is what happened when I dumped the coconut WK.

Takes me back years ago when a friend & I put drops of pure peroxide in water & drank it to increase oxygen lefels. Nasty stuff bit it worked...just couldn't stomach it any longer. And Gloria almost killed herself- she didn't realize a cup had peroxide straight in it(thought it was just a little bit of water....10 days later she got out of the hospital- we BOTH dumped the peroxide...


I put some Goji berries & dates (both dried) in separate pint containers with MK today. Will try WK tomorrow - 48 hour WK to 2F with berries/dates. Will see what happens! I will put in GT bottles so they will have a tight lid incase CO2 builds.

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Old 10-06-2011, 07:28 PM   #225
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Sounds good! Hm yes the gogi berries might be perfect for a kombucha 2F, didn't even think about that.

She drank peroxide straight? Wow, I can't imagine that happening. It must have burned her throat and probably stomach. I had a small bottle of 30% peroxide and I got a few drops on my fingers, and it literally burned the skin, turned it bleached white and killed that tissue. Drinking it.....phew wow!
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:20 AM   #226
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Okay, so I forgot about the Water Kefir bottle on my counter, and went to open the bottle, it is totally fizzing and trying to expand out of the bottle!!

So Faithful, You don't use all that dried fruit and stuff like raisins and figs do you? I can't imagine adding more unusual ingredients to my shopping list.

( I don't eat raisins and figs are a rare treat but fresh not dried)

All the online instructions say I have to put in dried fruit and figs and stuff, but is that required or just a taste thing?

So it's okay to just use plain sugar water and maybe lemon juice or what???? I'm being minimalist here and want to know what I can get away with NOT doing. ( You see I still haven't added anything to my milk Kefir)

I really don't know what to do with Water Kefir. I haven't tasted it yet, I'm waiting for the fizz to bubble off.

ETA: m'kay. It tastes like slightly sweet, super fizzy water. Hmm, I could reduce my selter purchases by using this water kefir stuff, hmmm. . .

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Old 10-07-2011, 11:04 AM   #227
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So it's okay to just use plain sugar water and maybe lemon juice or what???? I'm being minimalist here and want to know what I can get away with NOT doing. ( You see I still haven't added anything to my milk Kefir)

I really don't know what to do with Water Kefir. I haven't tasted it yet, I'm waiting for the fizz to bubble off.

ETA: m'kay. It tastes like slightly sweet, super fizzy water. Hmm, I could reduce my selter purchases by using this water kefir stuff, hmmm. . .


YEP! Thats right! Just the purest... mine is just an experiment! I like mine FLAT! Dont often let it get to the fizzy state. It is kind of cool cause when it is fizzy or if you want fizzy lemonade etc just put some juice in and let it ferment away! Such fun!

& I like my MK plain too- I just have so much right now I thought flavors would be nice. I usually flavor when I make it into a shake or smoothie for breakfast with whey protein.

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Old 10-07-2011, 11:12 AM   #228
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That's good to know. I have a purist strain in me when it comes to cultured foods and I like to experience the most simplest and healthiest form so I know immediately when somethings gone wrong/off. I fear and respect molds,yeasts and fungus. I will drink fermented milk but return moldy smelling buns. I tossed out a can of chipotle peppers cause the can looked " alittle" extended, but I drink my 2F kefir only after it has expanded the lid. I'm forwards and backwards, and a little sideways. and Sideways is very tasty indeed!

Once I split my kefir into two batches from all those prolific grains, I'll probably try flavoring one and keeping one plain.

So, now, I have Kombucha, Kefir, and Water Kefir. I feel so cultured!
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:24 AM   #229
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Culture with flavors AFTER the grains come out....
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:13 PM   #230
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OOOHHHHH.....
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:16 PM   #231
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Can I kefir Yogurt? I made a batch of yogurt from the remainder of the milk in my jug. It smelled fresh enough and the expiration is not for nother week. but the yogurt didn't turn out proper. It came out curdly with a large pool of whey.

I don't know if it's bad or just funky. But since it's not the yogurt I wanted I wonder If I could just add some kefir to it and let it colonize the rest of the curds into a kefir cheese or something

I don't think there is contamination, I heated the milk to 180, cooled to 115, added live yogurt and incubated for 12 hours like I usually do. Don't know why it separated. I feel mad, cause that milk would have made fine kefir! it's the same milk that I kefired yesterday and it's fine as kefir. Bother.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #232
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You could try kefiring the yogurt, but I would use only extra grains. The milk kefir grains require the lactose in milk to continue to multiply. If they do not get it, some of the organisms may starve a bit. Much of the lactose in yogurt would have already been converted to lactic acid and not be available to the kefir grains.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:32 PM   #233
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Good Point. I think I'll just strain what has already curdled and add it to some flavored yogurt. That's what I intended for most of it anyway.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:50 PM   #234
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I would drain it and make cheese from it. The yogurt is just separating like the Kefir and when I have this happen I put it in a bag and let it hang out a few hours or a lot more... it makes great Greek style yogurt or let it go a long time and make my version of cream cheese.... just like you did the kefir cheese.

Yogurt has a mind of its own and sometimes it is great but other times WEIRDO!!

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Old 10-07-2011, 06:18 PM   #235
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I poured the remaining sour kefir out in the yard instead of down the drain. From now on I will be using Faithfuls advice to change only one thing at a time!
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:45 PM   #236
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I'm sorry anytime something has to be dumped... better the yard than the septic tank. All my wet food scraps go in a container with water in the bottom & a tight lid. Once a day or when it is full it goes out back to a box for the critters to eat from. Also, next spring I will empty it to a dirt pile for mulch.

Was that a picture of your dump site?
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:02 PM   #237
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Yep that was the dump site in the yard. I'm sure some animals will come to work at it during the night. I do want to start a compost pile and that would have been perfect for it. I need to find some straw.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:55 AM   #238
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PH

I wonder if kefiring changes the ph of the milk....

I have some test strips at home, they go in increments of 2 & are not that accurate.... mainly used for beer & wine...

I think I will test next time I ferment... would be interesting to find out...

Anyone else out there got test strips and want to check & post results
24 hour
48 hour
etc (in/out of refrigeration) ?
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:03 PM   #239
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Oh, I'm sure it does, just the curdling factor shows that, but if you test them , I'll be interested in your results.

I'm still trying to work out a more definite set of nutritional data for my kefir, cause i wanna put it into fit day and the carbohydrate number is mucking with my ratios, and I know it's not as high as milk.

Okay Faithful, Porcupine. If you were writing the nutritional label for a cup of whole milk one day 2F Kefir, What would you put for the Fat, Protein and carbs (granted the fat and protein shouldn't really change at all)

Would you put half the carbs? 3/4 the carbs? Regular milk, 8 oz has what? 12g carbs I think. no 11g .

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Old 10-08-2011, 12:39 PM   #240
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That, my dear, is a Porcupine question! He has way more brain power than this old lady. I gave up counting calories, carbs, etc when I went Dukan. Never could count anyway even though I was a full charge bookkeeper for 27 years....
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