Kefir Fermenters Unite!

[porcupine73]

Hm just reading and Dom says "...I suggest to tear apart larger grains, for smaller flat grains usually produce a creamier kefir, due to kefiran leaching into the surrounding milk from both sides of the matrix [the once interior and exterior surface]"

Then it appears after some time the torn grains will 'heal' and form themselves back into the normal closed structure.

haha, no, my farmer has no goats. There is a place near me that sells raw goat's milk, but they don't allow their animals outside and they feed them tons of grains including soy which is not really good for raw milk safety.

[iamfaithful]

Maybe I should buy a goat! Had a male at one time-he was a rescue & I was younger then & could handle him when he got troublesome - now not to sure but I would need a female-would I need a pair to get milk? . The family is coming with the grandog. I still have the dog/goat pen & guess they could get along. Wonder what fresh goat milk tasts like? They would be less expensive to own than a cow!

Too many ???? right now.
Maybe Porcupine should get a goat.

My USMKG got so big I broke them & they grew. didn't read Doms site but figured it couldn't hurt. Now I know it was a tested method.

I took the grains out of the CM today. Didn't see a change except that parts of it were very dense like the fat turned to butter-so rich & creamy! The frozen milk had a preservative in it. Today I am going to try to make coconut milk using
2 different coconut products... Will post that on coconut link

[porcupine73]

Excellent! Glad to hear your results of breaking up the larger MKG grains.

Let us know how the coconut milk making turns out! Today I want to try making butter but not sure I will get to it, I have work to do on the tractor and the car.

I've noticed a lot of frozen and bottled products contain preservatives. Sometimes it's just citric acid which might not completely inhibit kefiring, but I imagine any sorbates or sulfites probably would.

Yes I was looking into getting a goat or a pair some time back! Right on you need a female that has born a youngin' in the last couple years. Apparantly some will produce milk for about a year after birthing and some will go as long as three or four years. So it might be feasible to have just a female and if she slows down producing to then find someone with a male to fix up the situation. This is how far I got: Anyone raise goats? I decided I just do not have the time to devote to doing it right now. Though I do have space to do it and a shelter they could use.

There was a funny post on here a few months back about someone saying they were sitting in a restaurant talking things like "Yes she's already 14 and she hasn't had a kid yet. I have to try to push her along to get things moving. I really want her to have a kid." And some lady comes up to them and says "that's disgusting! I can't believe you want a girl that young to have a kid already!" So the first lady says "uhhhh ma'am, we're talking about goats...."

This mornings roughly day 3 milk kefir second ferment with cinnamon, young coconut chunks, and bee pollen is completely delicious. Now it is quite fizzy and yummy. The pouch method seems to be working well. My pouch of 2 large grains and 2-3 small grains kefired thick a whole gallon of milk in about 12 hours. The pouch is so much easier to just pull out than having to try to strain the thick stuff.

This mornings batch of water kefir was really good too. It hasn't gone to second ferment yet, but it is at about 36 hours. It has coconut water, molasses, sugar, noni juice, ginger shreds, a little bee pollen and it is delicious. I love how it eats up all the sugar in there.

[metqa]

Originally Posted by porcupine73

Hm just reading and Dom says "...I suggest to tear apart larger grains, for smaller flat grains usually produce a creamier kefir, due to kefiran leaching into the surrounding milk from both sides of the matrix [the once interior and exterior surface]"

Then it appears after some time the torn grains will 'heal' and form themselves back into the normal closed structure.

Huh, I thought we weren't supposed to break them, but i'll give it a try if it will improve the texture and viscosity of my kefir. My grains are huge about the size of a muscadine grape ,a nd I've got 3 of those and some smaller bits.

I just transferred them so maybe I'll go fish them out and see how this next batch cultures.

Gonna make some Ghee today.

[metqa]

Okay, so I strained my grains out and they weigh 46g or 1.6 oz.
The picture below is the total amount of the grains before I pulled them apart into smaller pieces. Look closely, the Penny is there for size reference!
I didn't realize I had so many/much.

I pulled them all apart to the size of green peas or 1/4 Penny and was able to measure them. They came to a bit over 4 Tablespoons...Hmm, maybe that's why my milk kefirs so fast!

Sorry I forgot to photograph them after I pulled them apart, but it was a lot of little grain clumps. One was actually flat but curled in on itself. I wonder if this will give it more surface area and not clump and curdle as much all in one spot. Better go jiggle the jar!

[porcupine73]

Wow!!! nice grains. That one near the top middle is real bruiser! That should be enough to kefir a 5 gallon bucket I think!

With two good size ones and two or three little pieces, mine have been kefiring 3/4 gallon in about 12 to 16 hours.

I just had more of my bit over 3 day old now semi-continuous second ferment. It has now gained even more fizz and tastes even better than this morning. Right now it very much reminds me of an ice cream float. I am going to try getting some teaberry and putting that in some for a 4 day second ferment. I believe that will taste just like a root beer float when finished.

Just started a new 3/4 gallon on a second ferment with raisins, dried goji berries, a dried fig, and dried pineapple chunks to see how that turns out. Did a similar thing with some water kefir to see what happens too.

[iamfaithful]

Awe Porcupine, I see you leading the way in the kefir/kombucha expertise! I am so proud of all you are doing- & you just got started! Think of all the people you can pass your info to! Fibro Fighta will be joining us soon-she will be an experimenter too!

I find something that works for me & go with it. I eat all my errors & sometimes they are hard to swallow (notice the pun). So, if it works- I don't try to fix it:
then I don't have to trying to get it down.

How did you get the little links. Would like to put them in my signature but don't know if I can with my phone.

Metqa, those were some monsters! I broke mine a while back when they started getting huge so I would have more to share. Didn't know it was good for them. Haven't used USMKG except for fridge kefir (what I call resting) since I goe my TMKG. 16 oz /day is good for me.. I have too much remodeling to do & I use my "healthy hoby" as an excuse to procrastinate.

Going to coconut link!

[iamfaithful]

PS: drinking kefir rootbeer. Fixed the sweet that was missing last weks when kids didn't like it.

1st try : good taste no carbonation
2nd try: good carbonation but not sweet.
I left it in fridge then B4 I poured it I put some Truvia in the bottom of the glass. Awesome fizz & foam & sweet perfect! Will take it to them in a week!
3rd try: Perfection!

24 hour ferment, bottle 2 ltr with 1Tb root beer flavor & 2 or 3 large WKG. Let set til bottle is REALLY TIGHT! Add some Truvia to bottom of glass & pour!

[metqa]

Originally Posted by porcupine73

Wow!!! nice grains. That one near the top middle is real bruiser! That should be enough to kefir a 5 gallon bucket I think!

Seriously?!?! Wow!

Originally Posted by iamfaithful

PS: drinking kefir rootbeer.

That sounds really good. I think I might put my 2F in a smaller jar, maybe the fizz will come faster if it doesn't have to fill most of the empty jar with gas first.

[porcupine73]

Glad you got your kefir rootbeer perfected! It does sound good!

Just had some more of my now day 4+ 2F milk kefir. It has gotten even more fizzy and delicious. It's odd because to taste it and even look at it now you would never think it was created from milk!

Faithful to put links in the footer, you have to wrap them in url tags like:

Join us [url="http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/organic-natural-eating/732448-kefir-fermenters-unite-new-post.html"]kefir fermenters[/url} for kefiring fun!

Except use a close bracket ] for the close [/url}

And then in your sig that will look like:

Join us kefir fermenters for kefiring fun!

Hm....something in one of my brews had a bit of alcohol in it. But I just drank some WKG, MKG, and a bottle of kombucha so not sure which it was, probably the WKG brew.

[metqa]

OH MY!!

My 2F Jar, I left it out for 12 hours, turning it upside down frequently, then in the fridge overnight, turning it upside down frequently, it kept trying to separate. The lid became super puffed out (mason jar) I just opened it

FFFFSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
I started to pour it and it seemed really thin. Oh No.
A lot of fat had clung to the walls, so I scraped it off and stirred it back in. poured a cup and

FSSSSSHHHHHHH! Whoa it's so fizzy, I had to turn around and look at my Kombucha to be sure it hadn't jumped into my cup. FFFFFSSSSSSHHHH! It's so Fizzy, it's as fizzy as root Beer. FFFFFSSSSHH! It so fizzy, my nostrils are tingling! FFFFFFFSSSSSHHH!!! It's so fizzy I just burped like I drank a cup of cola.


Happy Am I! FFFFSSSSSSHHHHH!!!!! [burp!]

I drank two cups today!

[iamfaithful]

Thank you for the info- will have to get to a computer to do this!

OK it was probably the KT with the punch but I understand the Kefir W&M can as well - maybe the combo of all three. I usually don't let mine get there but I out some up maybe a month ago in swing tops. It will be months before I open them. Think I have 2 big botles of WK there too-one ginger/lemon the other lemon/lime. I will let you know the verdict this winter if I ever run out. With my warmer maybe I won't but nice to know it is there! I understsnd KT that has mellowed for several months is supposed to be awesome. Hope it doesn't have a high % in it cause I don't know anyone that will drink it!

[porcupine73]

Yes the 2F on milk kefir is surprisingly wonderful! It's almost like an ice cream float after 3-4 days. I started some with some dried berries and fruits added in to see how that is. I've been using cinnamon and bee pollen and that tastes really good too! The 2F is supposed to reduce the lactose/carb content even further. I'm going through about a quart with each meal.

[iamfaithful]

Metqa, try to put 1 or 2 of your new little grains in the milk & the rest in milk in the fridge. Yours is kefiring way too fast!

[iamfaithful]

Originally Posted by porcupine73

Yes the 2F on milk kefir is surprisingly wonderful! It's almost like an ice cream float after 3-4 days. I started some with some dried berries and fruits added in to see how that is. I've been using cinnamon and bee pollen and that tastes really good too! The 2F is supposed to reduce the lactose/carb content even further. I'm going through about a quart with each meal.

OK! Now you got me! I have a quart that has been in the fridge- & have burped it twice & removed the whey from the TOP. Now maybe I should put some raspberries in it & leave it out a day or two. What do you think?

[porcupine73]

The lemon lime sounds good! I would say give the second ferment a try! It looks like it would be disgusting, but it is fizzy and delicious! Things put into it for the second ferment seem to make it even more tasty. Dom says B vitamins and some other things peak a few days into second ferment, plus it gets rid of even more of the lactose/carbs.

[iamfaithful]

OK- will pull one out & try it! Will be more like a 4th or 5th ferment because they have been in fridge for probably a month already. Tomorrow!

[porcupine73]

It seems to peak around day 3-4 and then the milk fat seems to start to decline in flavor a bit. It is possible the milk fat if it floats to the top could start to go rancid eventually. Dom says there are certain herbs traditionally that were added that acted as antioxidants to help preserve the milkfat. I've got a few going now with various dried fruits to see how those turn out.

[metqa]

I lost my entire jar of 2F. I had turned it upside down to keep it from separating, and while it was upside down, it pressurized and all of it leaked out all over. I have a jar of kefir cheese I guess, but I'm really miffed at the mess. I guess it had too much fizz to stay on even though I tightened it down. Oh well lesson learned.

I'll portio out the grains to make it kefir more slowly but now I think I want that fast kefir for a few more days to build up my 2F jar again, I have no ready kefir to drink. Bother All!

[porcupine73]

Wow sorry to hear about that mess. I have spilled some and man it just has a tendancy to splatter all over absolutely everything, get in the crack of the table, and so on. Fortunately the cat was more than willing to assist in the cleanup.

That is one of the great things about kefir though isn't it! Just 12-24 hours for a fresh batch! Of course to 2F it takes another day to three-4 days.

I cut open my kefir grain pouch and am just kefiring right in the milk again. The pouch worked well, but the kefir was a bit milder and tasted more like clabber, so I think it may have been inhibiting one or more of the yeasts/bacteria. Dom noted it may be milder in the pouch. Hopefully if I get to it soon enough, before it completely thickens up, I will be able to still strain it.

[iamfaithful]

Strain it a tad early so it doesn't tigten up like that-it keeps kefiring for days anyway-

I put 10 frozen raspberries in my month old refrigerated kefir.
OK this morning it had separated & I was NOT happy!

So I put it all in the blender & thought I would
let it kefir in the fridge- I don't like it when it floats!

Oh well! I will let it stay like that & make one with Blackberry-8 big ones.... Will blend then return to fridge..

I usually make a smoothie with kefir berries & something else & I haven't done that for a long time.
This will be like having a ready made one waiting for me.

I took my MKG out today to actually kefir a quart-lots in there so B4 bed I will put in fridge.

Have some "gifts" going out this week & need to be sure all my grains are I am so to be able to share this GIFT given to us by Jesus! If one person gets helped, it is all worth it.

I am so gad you experimenters are there to help the people I am directing to the Kefir & Kombucha sites.

[porcupine73]

Thanks I will try to catch my kefir before it gets so thick. I may have to go only 12 hours or even less then. Otherwise that first day it took me about 40 minutes to carefully filter through the gallon jar as I poured it out to make sure I got all the grains.

Yes the second kefir ferment does make it separate, a lot. In mine, I get about 1/2 the jar as a slightly yellow liquid, and all the cream bits are floating on that. Shaking it will mix it back up a little bit. But it still tastes great, nice and fizzy.

[porcupine73]

Hmmmmm....the Dom experiment about taking water kefir, then doing a second ferment on it with ginseng and don quai is a success. He notes it has an effect on the mind. I have mine on second ferment for 24 hrs right now, and I tried a few sips. Fairly quickly a unique pleasant feeling takes over. As Dom notes, it is very short lived, but interesting nonetheless. This second ferment starts to get a bit gel like.

Two of the strains for the super strain arrived today so those are in fresh quarts of milk.

[iamfaithful]

I can see the grains now!

[porcupine73]

Nice! They are interesting to look at. I am really surprised kefir is fairly obscure. Maybe it's just in the U.S. and more developed countries that it has fallen out of favor. Say do you know any Biblical references to kefir grains? I see some people think it may be similar to manna.

The two first grains for the super strain kefired a quart of milk in about 12 hours, so that is good. More should be arriving this week. They will all get quarts of milk until no odd smell is noted in the kefir (indicating things have stablized and the yeasts are not overly dominant). Then they will start to get combined with the current 'master strain' which is a combination of the USAMKG and the TMKG. It looks like the November 1 goal should be achievable.

I found an easier way to strain the grains out of the kefir. My problem is the thickening sets in so quickly. I might check it and it still as watery as regular milk, then an hour later it might be super thick. So it's hard to get that timing right. But this time I couldn't find all my grains by straining, mainly because i couldn't get it through the strainer again. So I took my clean hand and just plunged it into the gallon jar. SUCCESS! It is very easy to fish around in there and feel the grains wherever they touch your hand/arm as you let it swish between your fingers. It takes maybe a minute to find them all even if it is super thick.

[metqa]

Porcupine, do you not stir up your kefir before straining? that usually dislodges the grains from the curds.

[iamfaithful]

We had fingers B4 strainers! If you know how many grains are there that works. I like to find the tiny babies! It is like finding a present-but since the big ones grow & we divide them finding tiny babies isn't necessary.

Metqa, I think his gets Greek Yogurt or thick sour cream solid- mine did that at first til I figured out the fridge & fewer grain thing.

TMKG separated this morning! Guess they aren't babies any mort! Someare getting substantial in size. & USMKG didn't thicken-had them cold for a couple weeks- so back on the counter-smells fresh so I am still good!

[metqa]

Wow, That's crazy Thick. I haven't tried souring cream yet, though I might.

Also half gallons of milk are on sale this week. Imight buy a few and just plop the grains directly into the carton!

Isn't it cool how the milk can still be "fresh" after sitting about? Kefir is something fascinating.

[iamfaithful]

I used half n half and made some terrific sour cream- a month & it is still great! A little water separation at the bottom now but the top is really thick & spoonable! Great taste!

[porcupine73]

Glad the TMKG is doing well!

Yes, it is cool how the milk is still fresh even after sitting out! At first I thought I would surely get sick drinking it. I showed it to some family members and they thought I was nuts for drinking it because it looks like it has gone horribly wrong.

I find it most interesting how all the bacteria and yeasts are beneficial, and how it crowds out or even kills or starves off putrefying or harmful bacteria. When I first read about how this is natural preservation, I didn't really understand it until getting into fermenting some things. How the yeasts, bacteria and other organisms organize themselves into the grains is amazing.

I do mix up the kefir before straining, but it just will not go through even a somewhat coarse weave strainer. If I went any coarser on the strainer, the babies would likely go through. Maybe it is because I am using whole milk, that the additional cream and milkfat makes it get so thick that it won't go through.

With the hand picking method, I was able to find even several fairly small babies. You can notice the grains right away when they brush against your hand. The fat chunks just feel smooth, but the grains, even small ones, are noticeable right away.