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Old 12-04-2011, 02:09 PM   #361
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Metqa, I put the MKG in raw milk. I think I put too much milk for the grains. It's 24 hrs. already. I could see in the morning that the grains had grown some. Couple hours later even more. Then at the 24 hr-ish mark they were really big. these babies grow fast!

The milk is somewhat sour, but not tart or what I think it should look like. It's still watery. It taste closer to buttermilk, but not that tart. Does the kefir get thicker after 24 hrs? I don't want it to get too sour, yet. How many days do you keep it out?

Am I on the right track?
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:47 PM   #362
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What temp is it in your kitchen? How much milk did you use? The amount of grains I gave you, I've been told, could ferment as little as 2 cups or up to a quart, depending on other conditions like temperature. I'd use 2 cups of milk for that amount, but I've been told I concentrate my grain to milk ratio too much, but I like the quicker thicker results of using less milk to more grains.

Have you shaken or agitated the container? the curds at the top sorta segregate the milk. You need to agitate it a bit to make sure the milk at the bottom gets some contact time with the floating grains.

If you want you can transfer the 24 hour kefir to another jar, without grains, and leave it out at room temperature to continue fermenting more slowly, till it's as sour as you like.
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I'm thinking of putting some grains in some Coconut milk beverage to see how that turns out.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:50 AM   #363
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OH I see Metqa got you covered, Artsy! Glad you have things going! Thanks Metqa!

Porcupine uses RAW Milk & he is the expert where raw is concerned. PM him and I am sure he can answer any ?? On raw milk- ut it would be better for others if he would answer you on the thread.

Porcupine73 where are you??? (Car 54 where are you? Am I dating myself?)

Anyway just let it ferment a while longer- JUST KEEP WATCH ON IT BECAUSE IT CAN GO TO CURDS & whey in no time - bit that is ok too! Just strain it will homogenize itself if it does. Raw milk is a different puppy to play with.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:56 PM   #364
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Well, everything worked out fine. I left the milk ferment a few hours past 24 hrs. I'll just keep playing with it until I get what I think I'm looking for. At what point flavor wise do you guys like it?

I ended up having to soak my grains in a mix of coconut and heavy cream last night. I only had enough raw milk left for the kids/hubby's breakfast in the morning. I will switch it out with raw milk tonight.

The grains have tripled in size and quantity.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:31 PM   #365
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I like mine tart
I like mine fizzy
I like mine when I hang it out for cheese
I like mine after it has been 2F in the fridge for a week
I like mine warm
I like mine cold
I like mine not so tart
I like mine not fizzy
I like mine made with cream or half n half
I like mine with whole or 2% milk
I like mine plain
I like mine with fruit
I like mine in chocolare milk
I like mine for breakfast, lunch or dinner
I like mine for a midnight snack
I guess I JUST LIKE MINE!
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:35 PM   #366
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Would love to know how rhe coconut milk & cream kefired...
Your grains will keep in the fridge in just a small amount of milk to keep them moist if you ever have that situation again. !)
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:59 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by iamfaithful View Post
Would love to know how rhe coconut milk & cream kefired...
Your grains will keep in the fridge in just a small amount of milk to keep them moist if you ever have that situation again. !)

Uhmm.....that combo was just yummmo! Deadly whopping amounts of calories! I think I will be making this combination, as well. Although, i may thin it a bit by adding whole raw milk along with the coconut and a few tablespoons of heavy cream.

It was thick and rich, just like melted ice cream. I wanted it a bit thinner so I made a drink. I added two drops of stevia, sprinkled organic vanilla beans and added the kefir made from the other day ( which even more tart today). Now this was really good.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:37 PM   #368
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I had a pleasant surprise on some milk kefir today! I know you guys had mentioned about kefiring it in the refrigerator. Well I had a 1/2 gallon jar with spare grains in there that had been in the fridge for several weeks. I pulled it out to replace the milk. I almost dumped the milk down the drain because it looked weird. But I decided to taste it. Wow!!!!! delicious. Super super fizzy but not overly tart.

On the raw milk, I let it ferment for 24 hours every batch, just because that keeps my schedule of when I switch the grains to fresh milk. If it is fermenting too much or too fast, I remove some of the grains until it gets to the rate I want. I keep the same volume of milk each day. Then I second ferment it for about 5 days and it is perfect, tart, and bubbly.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:44 AM   #369
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I knew sooner or later you would try my refrigerated kefir! HAHA!

Store milk is way different from your raw! I am glad to see you chime in! I can't leave mine out for 5 days-doesnt work for me but glad you have something that works!

Have a Blessed Christmas!
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:41 AM   #370
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The coconut cream mix sounds good! I will be looking forward to the refrigerator kefir every couple weeks on my spare grains!

I agitate my jar at around 12 hours, just to mix the grains in a bit to make sure all the milk is getting kefired.

So far my grains have been being good and staying right at the top of the milk when it is done, which makes it easy to pick them out. I'm just picking them out by hand since I have not been able to find a strainer big enough to catch all the grains while not taking 3 hours to strain the mix. My grains seem to like to 'combine', like if there are smaller chunks of them they seem to rejoin into quite large hunks in the jar.

The cat knows when I'm getting ready to switch the grains over to fresh milk, because that is when she gets her share. She rubs around my legs and meows like crazy as soon as she sees a jar of milk come out of the fridge.

In raw milk, the natural bacteria in the milk are very competitive, so that might be part of why raw produces a bit of a different kefir.

On the 2F I'd say it peaks right around day 4. From there it gets increasingly sour, very fast, and much more liquidy. I can tell when it is has gone too far because the curdy part will settle to the bottom, with the whey like liquid on top. Then it is extremely sour at that point, but seems to be about 6 to 7 days out.

So far I've had zero mold issues in the unrefrigerated jars, even if I don't shake them once per day. The one mold problem I did have was when I refrigerated the room temp kefir overnight, then took it out the next day to go back to room temp, that one got some smelly feet like mold in it.

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Old 12-22-2011, 02:06 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamfaithful View Post
I like mine tart
I like mine fizzy
I like mine when I hang it out for cheese
I like mine after it has been 2F in the fridge for a week
I like mine warm
I like mine cold
I like mine not so tart
I like mine not fizzy
I like mine made with cream or half n half
I like mine with whole or 2% milk
I like mine plain
I like mine with fruit
I like mine in chocolare milk
I like mine for breakfast, lunch or dinner
I like mine for a midnight snack
I guess I JUST LIKE MINE!
OK! How do you do that?
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Old 12-25-2011, 06:22 AM   #372
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I made a bag out of a tight weave smooth cloth like broadcloth. Put the seams on the outside & a draw string on it. Has a curved bottom not corners.

Got my kefir really thick & bubbly by long ferment in the fridge-actually I used some that had been in there for a while when I had a lot of excess. Then I poured it into the bag and hung it out over a bowl to capture the whey until it wuit dripping.

then it went into the fridge in the bag & on a strainer for a few days to drip some more. Carefully scraped it out of the bag when I got ready & had kefir cheese which resembled cream cheese. It was yummy! I mixed part of it in with some mashed strawberries & a little sweetner ... So good! Out of a quart I prolly got a little over a cup of cheese.

Metqa has made cheese with hers...Metqa haw about sharing your method!
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:05 AM   #373
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I just got 3 large muslin bags w/drawstrings for my kombucha tea leaves; I can turn one inside out and use for the cheese. Depending on the length of 1st F, I might be able to get something close to mascarpone!
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Old 12-25-2011, 02:00 PM   #374
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If you can let it go on 1F til it separates & pick out your grains (may want to use a few big ones & count how many you put in) the whey will drain right through making it easier to hang out-make it like would from yogurt. I don't know what mascarpone is......

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Old 12-27-2011, 10:17 AM   #375
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Yesterday I set chocolate milk to kefir. Mixed it up off and on, and I noticed that it "looked" as if it had separated into whey and choccie milk! Mixed it up, removed the grains and tasted. Except for not being super cold from the fridge, it was great!! So I put the rest in to chill and made another batch and one of white milk.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:00 PM   #376
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Yep! The chocolate is really good especially when it is cold.
However, I went back to the plain... I guess I am just a purest or lazy.
I prefer the first....
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:20 PM   #377
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I like the taste of the choccie kefir; I don't like having to mix it even after removing the grains. I had to stir the glass this morning (lost quite a bit yesterday d/t the fizzing over!). I have raw cacao nibs and think I will just ferment plain milk, then when to taste, grind the nibs into powder and mix by the glass.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:29 PM   #378
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That sounds good! I made a batch once with cocoa powder in with the grains (a couple grains dedicated to making the chocolate kefir). I wanted to try fermenting it in with the grains because it may reduce the phytic acid in the cocoa.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:31 PM   #379
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I used cocoa powder the 1st time I made chocolate kefir, but added it after the white was kefired and grains removed. This time I was out of cocoa so DS got me a 1/2 gal. of choccie milk. Thinking of asking on Craigslist for raw milk, but I have no real transportation except bus, so we'll see what happens.

I want a cow............
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:35 PM   #380
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You want a cow and I would just like to have a farmer! Porcupine has a farmer... I have a beekeeper! Good as that is... I still want a farmer.... raw milk & organic meats & vegies... such an addition to my "little bit of Heaven here on Earth"
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:44 PM   #381
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If I could find a farmer to supply me with milk, eggs and veggies, I'd take him. My BIG dream, however, is to have (rent?) a few acres and have a couple dexters, a few chickens, a veggie patch.... Well, you know how dreams go!
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:58 PM   #382
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I have the acreage, fenced area for chickens, barn etc...

Hawks and owls catch all the ducks, geese, and small animals on the property (My goose was a very large white horned goose and an owl took her to the neighbors and left her lifeless body there for him to burry.)

NOTHING grows here! I tried! Not plants, flowers, or vegetables.

It was once a corn field and now all it will grow is field grass! and at that not very well... it is either too wet or too dry! Pond wont stay up and filled, but the trees grow great! My tomato plants are spindly and tall but dont produce well, and the pepper plants grow to 4 feet tall but dont produce peppers. Even zuchini plants would not produce a single thing to cook. I must not have a green thumb but I think it is the extreme amount of shade from all the trees. BUT I LOVE LIVING HERE!

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Old 12-29-2011, 09:04 PM   #383
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Ummm-- never ever had a veggie patch-- killed a cactus and a jade plant once, does that count? I can't even do anything on the balcony as we face...NORTH!!
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:06 PM   #384
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We make a terrific pair!
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:52 PM   #385
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Kefir vs Yogurt ~ they each have a place

FYI~From the web site Cultured Food for Life
Posted by Donna Schwenk on May 17, 2010

So what is the difference between kefir and yogurt? Which is better? Kefir is by far superior, but yogurt has its benefits too.

I read once that yogurt is wine and kefir is champagne. Kefir is a right turning bacteria and yogurt is a left turning bacteria. Kefir acts like a swat team entering into the colon and attaching themselves there to the colon, and pushing away other harmful substances. It has been said that kefir cannot be killed by antibiotics, it is that strong. Yogurt on the other hand is food for the bacteria in the colon. It only last 24 hours and kefir lasts indefinitely.

Yogurt helps to insure that kefir grows and remains stable, so it to is important. From my own self experiments on my own body, I have found kefir to be of great benefit to certain infliction. I noticed from at least 10 different times, that when I would switch from kefir to yogurt. After about 3 weeks I would start to experience joint pain in my right knee. As soon as I would switch back to kefir within 2 days the pain would go away. So now I do both. I have kefir almost every day without fail. I have learned that I cannot stray for too long from this food. Things will just start to go haywire without it. That is the things with cultured foods, they call you. Once you start on them it is hard to turn back. The health benefits are too great.

The other great thing about kefir is the good yeasts. There is not much said about yeasts but they are extremely important. It is the good yeasts that put the fizz in kefir. They dominate and kill and control pathogens in the gut. They are the swat team I was telling you about. They house clean and strengthen the gut. Making it harder for pathogens to dominate and parasites to exists. So drink your kefir and have your yogurt too. This will strength your whole immune system.

Since I have given many recipes on kefir and not to slight yogurt. I will include one of my favorite yogurt recipes. But eat your kefir too.!!

This soup is a cold soup, super creamy and just decadent. The black cherry juice gives you a powerful anti inflammatory food.
I had a soup like this on a cruise and loved it so much that I came home and recreated it.
Hope you enjoy it too!

Yogurt Coconut Soup

1 cup of yogurt
1/4 cup of coconut milk
1/2 cup of milk
1/8 cup Black Cherry Juice
3 pck of stevia or 2 tbsp honey

Toppings
dried cherries or cranberries
dried coconut
nutmeg

Blend all ingredients in blender till creamy. Top with dried cranberries and dried coconut and a sprinkle of nutmeg.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:39 AM   #386
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question

A couple of years ago I tried making kefir. Got some live grains but only had store bought pasteurized milk to use. I tried many times but each batch was
not "cultured" and thick like store bought but more fizzy and rotten tasting.
What did I do wrong? I like the taste and texture of store bought but do not like the price tag!
TIA.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:29 AM   #387
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Kefiring is kind of personal and somewhat experimental. If you read through the thread some of us dont refrigerate and like it when it separates into curds & whey and others of us do a 24 hour ferment. Sometimes I put mine on the counter for 12 hours or so and then into the fridge to finish. When I strain it it homogenizes it; the longer it stays in the fridge the thicker it becomes as it continues to ferment. I always shake or stir it before I drink it ~ straight from the quart jar.

I never spent the $$$ for store bought so I dont have anything to compare it to. Please look at the ingredient list on your kefir bottle, if I remember there was more in there other than milk fermented by kefir grains and fruit. I am sure as with all things bottled there are additives and flavorings to give it the uniform taste and texture that will make it sell as well as slightly addictive.

I am not a purest where it comes to food (doesnt have to be organic etc) but I dont like the SECRET additives that the FDA doesnt insist is put in our foods. For example Orange Juice is from concentrate but they dont tell you what is in the concentrate to make it taste the same every batch (ever eat 2 oranges that tasted identical) and preserve it til it is reconstituted. However, Kefir is a different entity for me!

If you would like to try it again one of us I am sure would be happy to send you some grains. Usually I can pack and ship for about $3 USPS if you could assist with the postage to any of us it would be appreciated.

I dont know where you got your grains but if they were dehydrated that could have been the reason for your poor results. I had dehydrated and it was a terrible experience ~ then someone from LCF was kind enough to do a grain exchange with me. Her grains have now been combined with Tibetan grains from Porcupine & shipped from my little place here in KY to all points east, west, south & north including Canada.

There is one other factor in the thickness of the kefir (other than ferment time) and that is the fat content of the milk. I use 2% ~ it makes ME happy. Skim IMO doesnt kefir well (very thin), whole makes very thick kefir, half n half even thicker like sour cream and cream actually makes kefir cream. You may want to experiment with different % of milk fats... actually the fat in milk is good for your brain...

It would definitely be worth a try again. After the kefir has fermented you can add fruit and a host of other goodies to make your kefir taste the way you personally prefer. I use Dean's milk from Dollar General (seems like that kind makes my grains happy) but Porcupine uses raw milk from his farmer and others here use different kinds including almond, soy, coconut etc.

There is a website that has more info on kefir than my brain can absorbe. If you look through this thread you will find references to it, especially from Porcupine. You may want to Google Kefir Dom and his web site may pop up. He is from Australia.

Hope this helps... (just read your post again and you said you used live grains, possible it may have been the grains ~ Porcupine made a super strain as an experiment and they made a very geletin textured kefir~it was good but not my "cup of kefir" <sorry Porcupine>) if you want to try, get with one of us and if we have extras I am sure someone will be happy to get you started. BTW do you Kombucha?
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:09 AM   #388
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You might need to let your grains cycle through more batches. Sometimes as the grains adjust to a different milk source and conditions, some of the organisms can overly dominate the brew and give it an off taste, vinegary, or even slight scent of acetone/nail polish remover. Usually after 3 brew cycles or so this will go away.

Keep the jar covered during brewing. A small amount of alcohol may be produced, and if air gets to it, it will oxidize and become vinegar, which gives it a different taste.

Store bought kefir is not the same as that made with kefir grains. Store bought is normally made from a commercial starter which contains maybe eight organisms vs. the 30 or so in true kefir from grains. Store bought they have to mess with the culture to prevent any chance of it ending up with more than 1% alcohol in it. Store bought kefir, or the powdered starters, will not propagate past about seven generations, that is you cannot indefinitely use it to produce more, like you can with kefir grains.

The 'super strain' is a bit different. That was a very interesting experiment. The various small grains I combined from about eight different sources joined together to form HUGE grains, I mean like golf ball size. I use two of those in 1/2 to 3/4 gallon of raw cow's milk each day, and they kefir it up really nice. Then it goes for 3-5 days second ferment (grains removed, tightly covered, but 'burped' 2-3 times a day). It does produce quite a bit of what Dom calls 'kefiran', the gel like stuff. They seem to produce more of it when some of the grains are removed from the daily brew, so that the remaining grains have more work to do. I have more to give away, though right now it is very cold here so there would be risk of freezing during mailing. Kefir grains can be frozen but they can't have any liquid around them or it will burst the cells.

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Old 01-03-2012, 02:45 PM   #389
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Thank you Dr Kefir aka Porcupine! Eveytime you post I learn or remember something I have forgotten.

I too have more grains than I need. When I ship them I took a tip from you....wrap them in cheese coth & dip it in milk to keep moist. Triple bag & send 1st class. Although last ones went from KY to CO and it took about 14 days...USPS really DID slow the 1st class mail!

Hope you have a blessed new year & all are well in Angola!
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #390
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was it around the holidays? all of my packages arrived in 2-4 days.
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