Kombucha

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by metqa

I just gave another bottle of kombucha fermented grape juice to BF this morning. He's so excited.

Metqa, I remember reading about your grape kombucha (and saw pics) tried to go thru this thread and learn more but couldn't find what I was curious about, so probably this has been asked & answered, but gonna do it again lol

It's my understanding that you took a spare scoby and put it directly in grape juice (unsweetened pure grape juice, I'm assuming) with NO tea or anything else and let it ferment, is this right? Does the scoby reproduce, is it healthy? Have you been doing this continuously? How does this compare with KT that has been flavored with grape juice?? I'd love to do this of course lol but way too cheap.

[Kamalam]

Originally Posted by cindy_cfids

Did it make your teeth hurt??

Anyways it was basically just algae & esterC, which I'm betting you can get a lot cheaper than thru a MLM.

Allergies are just a symptom of an immune system not working appropriately and needing nutritional support.

No, I don't recall my teeth hurting, mostly just had to use the bathroom a lot and felt tummy upset. Thanks for the info on the spirulina and ester C... my allergies are seasonal, and over for the most part now (usually hits me at the beginning of summer). But I will definitely keep that info because I'd like very much to avoid those symptoms next year!

This year I really was only hit a few times - I think the fires in Santa Barbara put a heck of a lot of stuff in the air that affected me. I noticed my biggest attack came when we could see the haze in the air.

[Kamalam]

Originally Posted by daisyHair

Kamalam,
is that a sculpture in your Avi? I love it! If it is would you by any chance know who the artist is?

OK! I just heard back from the Hawthorne Gallery in Big Sur. Here's what they told me about the angel sculpture (my av):

This particular piece is titled Winged Figure # by noted bronze sculptor Max DeMoss of Southern California. The measurements on this are 94" high and the wings are edged in silver. The asking price for this is $14,600, which would include our cost for crating and packing if you live out of state, or delivery and installation if you live in California.

This sculpture, like all of Max's work, is a unique piece, using the lost wax method of casting.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Kind regards,

Toby Rowland-Jones
Hawthorne Gallery, Big Sur
831-667-3200
-----------------------------------------------

All I can say is... I would love to spend the extra $14-$15 K I have lying around for beautiful art, so if somebody is desperate to buy it out from under me, they better get a move on. LOL. Yikes. But it is a fantastic work of art, no doubt.

[BikerAng]

I started developing allergies about 5 years ago (never had them as a kid) and the doctor wanted to put me on low grade daily antibiotics!!!

Needless to say, I tossed out the prescription and started doing some research (this was before I started low carbing). I started taking local bee pollen (fresh, not heat dried). I found a lady who raised the bees on her property and sold it fresh at farmers markets. I gradually increased my dose to 1 TBS a day and my allergies totally went away while using this. I just use it now if I feel sniffly or a little run down. Can't say enough good things about bee pollen!

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by Kamalam

Thanks for the info on the spirulina and ester C... my allergies are seasonal, and over for the most part now (usually hits me at the beginning of summer). But I will definitely keep that info because I'd like very much to avoid those symptoms next year

(disclaimer - First let me say, I know nothing about anything lol. So the following is just how I understand it, and that may have nothing to do with the truth) I think allergies are caused by a nutritional imbalance. The vitamin supplementation would manage their symptoms but only til they had their stores "filled up" I would have them take 3x a day to fill up the stores fast. Those that did 1x day would fill up their stores eventually also, but it would take 3x longer. You must be down under if your summer is over? So it will manage your symptoms only if you take it prior to start of allergy season. Preferably 6 months at 1x day or maybe 3x day 6 weeks prior. Allergies are a sign that you are lacking the nutritional support needed for your immune system. Your immune system handles a lot of illnesses, you want it working properly. I would suggest all the time, not just seasonally

[Kamalam]

Thanks Ang and Cindy... (oh, I'm not down under, just in the fog on the coast of California, lol). I guess summer hasn't officially started... geez, I'm ahead of myself. Must be that my allergies start pinging in late spring/ early summer.

I love the taste of bee pollen - haven't had any in quite a while... I just placed a big Amazon order for my vegan plunge (well, somewhat vegan, with a vegetarian and fish emphais, lol), so when my wallet is fatter, I'll look into your suggestions, gals. Thanks.

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by Kamalam

(oh, I'm not down under, just in the fog on the coast of California, lol). I guess summer hasn't officially started... geez, I'm ahead of myself. Must be that my allergies start pinging in late spring/ early summer.

lol well here in Texas we call that NOW lol Check out swansonvitamins for some of the bestest deals

[Kamalam]

Ok, I just separated the scoby from the babies... OMG. That was so nerve wracking. I HAVE NO IDEA IF I DID DAMAGE or if my experience was normal.

I saw what I believe was the original scoby on the bottom, it was still that perfect round shape in which it arrived. On top of that were a couple layers of large pancake babies... I was able to separate the mother but the babies were hard. I had to use a knife on them and it wasn't pretty.

In the end, I put the mother back in the brewer and a piece of one of the babies. The rest I blended with a little starter tea and water (I can't believe how tough it was - really made the vitamix work hard) and placed in a small jar. It's now the consistency of a thick pudding. I'll use some of it as a facial mask and the rest as compost probably.

I just hope things continue to ferment and that I didn't botch things up too badly...

[metqa]

Originally Posted by frogfarm

Okay, now that the first batch of bottles has been sitting in the fridge a bit longer, I just this morning noticed a new baby forming in one! But I've been straining them every time before drinking anyway, even if I didn't add anything else. But the commercial stuff I bought and tried didn't have a scoby after sitting around on the store shelf, just the yeast strands. Fascinating...more research is required.

the bottled stuff I let sit around for half a year before drinking did eventually form scobies, but mostly there is just yeast. I think they may bottle and chill it immediately for sale rather than letting it sit about like we do. the ones I had had been in a freezer that had quit working months before and everyone forgot about it, so it sat at warm room temps for a couple of months before I even found it.

ETA: Yeah I live dangerously like that.

Originally Posted by cindy_cfids

Metqa, I remember reading about your grape kombucha (and saw pics) tried to go thru this thread and learn more but couldn't find what I was curious about, so probably this has been asked & answered, but gonna do it again lol

It's my understanding that you took a spare scoby and put it directly in grape juice (unsweetened pure grape juice, I'm assuming) with NO tea or anything else and let it ferment, is this right? Does the scoby reproduce, is it healthy? Have you been doing this continuously? How does this compare with KT that has been flavored with grape juice?? I'd love to do this of course lol but way too cheap.

Ha, it was an idea that Laurie and I came up with and BF pushed me to try it. Yes I took a spare and and put it directly into pure grape juice. It actaully did form a new scoby, a purple one, to my surprise. I don't know if it's healthy but I haven't seen anything else growing in it yet and BF hasn't keeled over! I've never had the GT grape flavor, but compared to regular Kombucha it's awfully sweet to my taste( like fizzy grape juice with a bite), especially since BF won't let me take it closer to vinegar stage, which tasted awfully awful. I'll bet grape flavored would be more mild and familiar tasting.
~~~~~~~~

I think it's interesting someone mentioned teeth hurting. When I start to take ill, i feel it in my teeth and mouth first, usually.

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by Kamalam

Ok, I just separated the scoby from the babies... OMG. That was so nerve wracking. I HAVE NO IDEA IF I DID DAMAGE or if my experience was normal.

I saw what I believe was the original scoby on the bottom, it was still that perfect round shape in which it arrived. On top of that were a couple layers of large pancake babies... I was able to separate the mother but the babies were hard. I had to use a knife on them and it wasn't pretty.

In the end, I put the mother back in the brewer and a piece of one of the babies. The rest I blended with a little starter tea and water (I can't believe how tough it was - really made the vitamix work hard) and placed in a small jar. It's now the consistency of a thick pudding. I'll use some of it as a facial mask and the rest as compost probably.

I just hope things continue to ferment and that I didn't botch things up too badly...

You really should keep spares in a separate container (or 2), just in case (mold, dog knocks over container or like me have cloth come off and have batch contaminated) You can have a second brew batch going too. I'd suggest lots spares before getting the blender out lol. I think you're suppose to keep newest ones & retire the older ones first, but at this stage, they are all about the same age. I'm guessing you're more concerned with volume is why you thinned so much. The more scoby's the quicker the ferment.

[JoSkids]

[COLOR="Green"]How do you keep spares without brewing?[/COLOR]

[Kamalam]

Oh, we kept a spare - I think we're going to use it for a yerba mate/tea blend. In a few months, I'll separate the scoby again and get another... and this time try and retire the mother!

I think I thinned too much... argh. Oh well. I did put two of them in the brewer and we are going continuous now, so hopefully the ferment will have a little kick. I read in a kombucha forum tonight that the scoby is not necessary for fermentation but is rather a by-product of it. BUT, having a scoby makes the ferment happen faster. Interesting.

[Kamalam]

Originally Posted by JoSkids

[COLOR="Green"]How do you keep spares without brewing?[/COLOR]

Just in a separate container (with some starter tea to cover) - like in a mason jar. I read that if you put a lid on it, you need to burp it every day... so I'm going to get some cloth and a rubber band and then put my spare in the refrigerator (that is my next spare!).

Cindy... does that sound right?

[metqa]

Originally Posted by Kamalam

Just in a separate container (with some starter tea to cover) - like in a mason jar. I read that if you put a lid on it, you need to burp it every day... so I'm going to get some cloth and a rubber band and then put my spare in the refrigerator (that is my next spare!).

Cindy... does that sound right?

You don't need to refrigerate it. If you do it might go dormant. I gave a way one like that and took the person a few batches before it seemed right, if remember. All the scoby spares that I've given away, save that one, were stored just like kombucha on the same shelf, at room temp, in tea, with a cloth cover. the tea in the spare jar grew more scobys even, and the kombucha in that jar got stronger and stronger so I was able to give it away as a strong starter tea.

cooling it in the fridge will cause it to go dormant so that when you need it, it may take a few batches for it to fully become active again, rather than being rarin' to go.

[frogfarm]

The main brewing jar is developing carbonation -- I can hear it fizz when I tilt it to keep the scoby wet! Next Wednesday will be our third week, so supposedly the more beneficial acids should start forming.

Temperature question -- any advice on how to keep the ferment from getting too hot in the summer? Especially without air conditioning!

[Kamalam]

Originally Posted by metqa

You don't need to refrigerate it. If you do it might go dormant. I gave a way one like that and took the person a few batches before it seemed right, if remember. All the scoby spares that I've given away, save that one, were stored just like kombucha on the same shelf, at room temp, in tea, with a cloth cover. the tea in the spare jar grew more scobys even, and the kombucha in that jar got stronger and stronger so I was able to give it away as a strong starter tea.

cooling it in the fridge will cause it to go dormant so that when you need it, it may take a few batches for it to fully become active again, rather than being rarin' to go.

Metqa, thanks for the info! That's just what I needed to know.

[JoSkids]

Originally Posted by metqa

You don't need to refrigerate it. If you do it might go dormant. I gave a way one like that and took the person a few batches before it seemed right, if remember. All the scoby spares that I've given away, save that one, were stored just like kombucha on the same shelf, at room temp, in tea, with a cloth cover. the tea in the spare jar grew more scobys even, and the kombucha in that jar got stronger and stronger so I was able to give it away as a strong starter tea.

cooling it in the fridge will cause it to go dormant so that when you need it, it may take a few batches for it to fully become active again, rather than being rarin' to go.

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Move to a cooler climate Short of doing that maybe move the location of your brew. I know I have some really cool closets - not that that those are the most ideal or convenient places to brew, it is only temporary [/COLOR]

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by frogfarm

Temperature question -- any advice on how to keep the ferment from getting too hot in the summer? Especially without air conditioning!

How hot are we talking?? You're in Michigan, how hot can it get lol. Bacteria start to die above 95F. Is the temperature greater than 84F where you keep your brewer? Optimal temp is between 74-84F. >82F degrees best to use a continuous brewing system only. You could also put your brewer in a larger container & fill with water. That will draw heat off and insulate from heat. Probably need to add cooler water in afternoon. Or you could wrap container in wet cloth during the afternoon which while wet can lower the ambient air temperature dramatically.

I don't a/c that part of the house here in Texas and I believe the temperature is less that 84F in the house. I've never really paid that much attention. One year I didn't use a/c at all. I would pump the night air into the house and then close it up tight. It was bareable til about 4pm then miserable til midnight, but I still don't believe it got above 85 in here (not continuously at least). I've used evaporator coolers for years and they drop temp in heat of day to about 80ish (>100F outside)

Kombucha, The Balancing Act -
It's nearly impossible to make good KT at high temperatures. Bacteria start to die above 35 Degrees C (95 F) whereas the yeast will survive to about 49 Degrees C (120 F). So the hotter it is the more likely you're making tea wine. Not only that, but once the static ambient temperature goes above 28 Degrees C ( 82 F) degrees the yeast are usually so active that they out pace the bacteria and cause the ferment to sour well before the most beneficial compounds are created by the bacteria.

However, there are three things you can do to help keep the balance of the culture in higher temperatures. Always use the densest, whitest SCOBY you can find because it will contain less yeast. If you have a choice, use the youngest available.

Next use the oldest, sourest starter available or use pure distilled vinegar. Most of the yeast will have died off in old starter and none will exist in pure vinegar. This will cause the yeast to get off to an extremely slow start and allow the bacteria more opportunity to do their job. It may take your ferment twice as long but the results are much better for you and tastier as well. Of course if you're in a hotter climate that may offset much of the delay and result in your brew times being what the rest of us experience, about 8-10 days. From everything the experts tell us, no matter what the temperature, the majority of the acids, which are really good for us don't accumulate for at least a week. So do everything you can to slow the pace down by dropping the temperature or reducing the yeast populations.

Finally, use a vessel with greater surface area. This will allow large bacteria populations to develop faster and further help maintain the culture's balance.

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by JoSkids

[COLOR="Green"]How do you keep spares without brewing?[/COLOR]

Only fresh tea will start the brewing process, that's what I love most about my 5 gallon (CBS) continuous brewing system: it patiently waits to start brewing til I add tea. Most people keep a spare jar (they call hotels) with excess scobys. You've got to thin your brewer or you won't have any KT just a jar full of cellulose (scobys)

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by Kamalam

Oh, we kept a spare - I think we're going to use it for a yerba mate/tea blend. In a few months, I'll separate the scoby again and get another... and this time try and retire the mother!

I think I thinned too much... argh. Oh well. I did put two of them in the brewer and we are going continuous now, so hopefully the ferment will have a little kick. I read in a kombucha forum tonight that the scoby is not necessary for fermentation but is rather a by-product of it. BUT, having a scoby makes the ferment happen faster. Interesting.

KAMALAM sorry I misunderstood, you did right - When you thin you only need 2-3 in your brew container. Only one makes it work less efficiently, which gives you greater chance of mold (if you're using batch system) hmmmm never thought of that (did you see the flash go off in my brain), so I would assume in CBS one or even NONE would be fine??? I think that's what your forum was saying ??? I'd be skeered of using NO scoby lol, but yeah one should be fine with 70% starter, hmmm? (I think I'll stick with my large container half filled with scobys though lol)

[Kamalam]

Originally Posted by cindy_cfids

KAMALAM sorry I misunderstood, you did right - When you thin you only need 2-3 in your brew container. Only one makes it work less efficiently, which gives you greater chance of mold (if you're using batch system) hmmmm never thought of that (did you see the flash go off in my brain), so I would assume in CBS one or even NONE would be fine??? I think that's what your forum was saying ??? I'd be skeered of using NO scoby lol, but yeah one should be fine with 70% starter, hmmm? (I think I'll stick with my large container half filled with scobys though lol)

Thank God I didn't ruin everything! I've read some conflicting information on how to separate/thin/cut the scoby. I tried to simply peel them apart, but that only worked with detaching the mother. The babies were basically glued together in the middle. I couldn't even work a very sharp knife between them, so I ended up cutting across, on the side, where ever I could! That's what scared me... was that I was "doing it wrong."

In the end, I cut what was a big flat scoby into two round shapes at least half the original size. I put one newly formed baby back into the the brewer (with the mother) and another into a spare container.

So... since I've thinned, should we wait longer to draw off our two quarts of KT? Now that we're continuous, we're supposed to do it today... but since there are 2 smaller scobies in the brewer, should we wait until tomorrow? Should we only bottle every two days (or longer?) until the scobies grow bigger??

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by Kamalam

I've read some conflicting information on how to separate/thin/cut the scoby. I tried to simply peel them apart, but that only worked with detaching the mother. The babies were basically glued together in the middle. I couldn't even work a very sharp knife between them, so I ended up cutting across, on the side, where ever I could! That's what scared me... was that I was "doing it wrong."

In the end, I cut what was a big flat scoby into two round shapes at least half the original size. I put one newly formed baby back into the the brewer (with the mother) and another into a spare container.

So... since I've thinned, should we wait longer to draw off our two quarts of KT? Now that we're continuous, we're supposed to do it today... but since there are 2 smaller scobies in the brewer, should we wait until tomorrow? Should we only bottle every two days (or longer?) until the scobies grow bigger??

I'm not quite understanding the battle or need to separate. I figured the ones that were hanging tight wanted to be together and left them lol. I did rip one but I never got a knife to any (and there's that thing about no metal touching scoby - which I personally think only applies to aluminum, but I don't know - I was brewing in a metal pot this past winter) Please remember, I don't know anything, learning right along side you. So what I think may have nothing to do with the truth. My biggest battle/conquer/desire was the fizz. I don't think there is a right & wrong answer and what may work for me, may not work for you.

I was told recently that I wasn't being patient enough that fizz would come (in 3 weeks) eventually. I don't know about that, you can't brew to the point of sugarless & expect yeasts to have anything to eat, but I could be wrong. I'd rather rebottle with grape juice & have fizz in 3 days. Last winter, I never had enough to be patient with. pffftt wait 3 weeks for ferment & then another 3 weeks for fizz nawww

Really need to know what your goal is before making suggestions, if you want a more sour, sugarless KT then you should wait longer like 2-3 days. With the warmth KT is processed quicker. Is that 26 hours processing time the same for 64F 74F 84F I doubt it & I don't know what it's based on. I'd suggest you bottle every day and decide from the results. That may give you a stockpile or at least keep up with consumption. You can always change the game plan later. I'd rather have too much sweet KT, than too lil sour lol.

[JoSkids]

Originally Posted by cindy_cfids

I don't think there is a right & wrong answer and what may work for me, may not work for you.

[COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]The more I read, the more I believe this!

and that being said, I have been brewing my 3 batches for about a month now and they are still filmy (albeit wider) scoby's. When do they start getting thicker and start "having" babies? [/COLOR]

[BikerAng]

I'm on my third batch and the scoby's are about 2 inches thick now. It's been a little over a month.

[JoSkids]

Originally Posted by BikerAng

I'm on my third batch and the scoby's are about 2 inches thick now. It's been a little over a month.

[COLOR="Sienna"]Wowzers! wonder why mine are so pathetically filmy still? I did start from scratch - a bottle of synergy and some sweet tea...

Do you think it might have anything to do with the quantity of sugar that is in the tea. I think I have the right ratio, but the ratio was kind of a guess and it could be a little weak on the sweetness factor...[/COLOR]

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by JoSkids

[COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]I have been brewing my 3 batches for about a month now and they are still filmy (albeit wider) scoby's. When do they start getting thicker and start "having" babies? [/COLOR]

It's my understanding you (should) get a new baby growth with every batch of fresh tea and that every time they are disturbed, they quit forming & start anew. (Continuous brewer scobys will form different and not slablike) I haven't had not one thin filmy scoby. They all are half inch thick slabs. I had one that I wanted a special scoby using white tea (I don't use white tea to drink, only for scobys, white tea produces the highest ratio of glucuronic acid). I used 16 oz starter & 16 oz fresh tea and the baby soaked up every drop (the fluid turned into platter size 3/4" scoby). My very first or second batch didn't taste quite right or skeered me probably so I put in a sun tea jar and ignored it for months, I was shocked to find a 3" scoby in this covered jar.

I would suggest starting a glass jar (peanut butter size) somewhere that you can see it without touching it AT ALL (not near your brewer, an eye level shelf or something) with a piece of scoby that is a lil less than the diameter, put in 2" of starter and 2" of fresh tea. I use the recipe - 1 liter/quart water + 1/4 cup sugar + lots dry tea (or for larger qty. 1 gallon + 1 cup + lots dry tea) Cover with cloth & let it just sit & see if the baby is same as in your brewer. Yeasts may be overpowering the bacteria & slowing growth, there might be a slight vibration that is slowing growth, someone may be jostling the brewer, it could be too cold (you're not brewing in refrigerator, I assume)

[cindy_cfids]

Originally Posted by JoSkids

[COLOR="Sienna"]Wowzers! wonder why mine are so pathetically filmy still? I did start from scratch - a bottle of synergy and some sweet tea...

Do you think it might have anything to do with the quantity of sugar that is in the tea. I think I have the right ratio, but the ratio was kind of a guess and it could be a little weak on the sweetness factor...[/COLOR]

Think i've figured out the problem lol - you shouldn't have been using this scoby for brewing. Shocked it's working at all, surprised you're doing as well as that lol. I'd suggest you just let it sit & grow before putting it to work as a brewer. You got the poor fellow overworked. I'd be a lil concerned using synergy as a starter isn't that part fruit juice, probably fine, but would think it might change the molecular structure.

Jo how is your KT turning out? How big was the original before you started brewing?

I just ordered Carpe Diem Kombucha Tea, 500ml Bottlesn (I SO wanted GT's but couldnt find it anywhere on line) because I want a scoby with Lactobacillus Casei (I'm hoping a more probiotic creating scoby) I will take a bottle and add equal amount of fresh (white) tea with a lil more sugar than usual and let it sit til it looks like my other scobys - I'm assuming a month or more.

[JoSkids]

[COLOR="Indigo"]Well, got the answers from both of you

1st - I jostle all the time. Bad (or just a nervous)scoby mommy, but I check on them all the time. Ok, will let them be...

2nd - never actually grew a scoby - just dumped a bottle of synergy in a container with some sweet tea. They are working overtime for slave wages!

Things are developing, but because I am overworking them, I just have to resolve myself that they are going to take longer. That's ok.

The kombucha is turning out (too sweet at the moment, but REALLY tasty - I'd rather have it like Synergy so I am not consuming so much sugar, but oh well) I will just sit back for a while and buy and collect more synergy bottles eventually I will have some full grown scoby to work with - it's just going to take a while since I didn't start out quite right... All will be good in the end.

Thanks for all the input.[/COLOR]

[Faia]

To use Synergy to 'start' a scoby you need to get one of them that has the raw culture in it. At the food co-op they have 7 or 8 flavors, but only 2 or 3 of them are labeled as having the raw culture.

Once a scoby starts growing, it should be *gently* rocked just enough to wet the surface, perhaps once per day, but other than that it needs things as quiet as possible.

You may want to start another container (using a Synergy with raw culture) and put it somewhere that it can grow quietly. Let it go for a while without taking any KT out, and only add fresh solution to replace evaporation losses. Once the scoby is reasonably solid, you can take small portions out to boost your regular batch (no more than 25%) and eventually grow a second scoby to transplant into your main container.

Or be lazy and get a scoby from metqa.

[JoSkids]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Scoby's are coming along albeit slowly. I just used a plain old bottle of synergy - some fruit flavored and added it to a gallon of sweet tea. I am not worried about the brew since I know I am getting somewhere with it. It's just taking a while to get a solid scoby.

Either that or I have come up with a totally new kind of drink and I don't know it yet...

Yah know, it's not really rocket science and it's all a big old experiment. My first brew might not be what I expected (synergy tasting), but I'm still loving it since it tastes so much like Apple Beer from my childhood.

It will evolve. [/COLOR]