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Old 12-26-2014, 07:38 AM   #1
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Why eating to much protein is harmful to your body

The nutritional ketosis plan is highly individual but the framework is the same which is low carb, moderate protein and high fat. Most of us work out what is appropriate and do quite well.

Some continue to struggle with weight loss (myself included) and are always trying to find something with nutrition that will help. In my case, I often listen to the experiences of others. I try to have an open mind and consider these things. I do get swayed sometimes. I recently was considering doing a much lower fat woe but in order to do that, I would have to raise carbs and or protein.

I know why I can't raise carbs but the protein question became the focus and here is what I have been learning.... It is actually bad for your body to over eat protein.... this is from the Mercola site...

Quote:
Excess Protein May Fuel Weight Gain, Yeast Overgrowth, and Cancer

There are a number of reasons why I believe it's prudent to limit your protein intake. The first is that if you eat more protein than your body requires, it will simply convert most of those calories to sugar and then fat. Increased blood sugar levels can also feed pathogenic bacteria and yeast, such as Candida albicans (candidiasis), as well as fueling cancer cell growth.

Excessive protein can have a stimulating effect on an important biochemical pathway called the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR).

This pathway has an important and significant role in many cancers. When you reduce protein to just what your body needs, mTOR remains inhibited, which helps minimize your chances of cancer growth.

Additionally, when you consume too much protein, your body must remove more nitrogen waste products from your blood, which stresses your kidneys. Chronic dehydration can result, as was found in a study involving endurance athletes.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:03 AM   #2
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Very interesting, thanks for posting.

I've read/heard similar findings when investigating intermittent fasting, in particular in the work by Michael Mosely (Eat, Fast and Live Longer- book and video). They talk about a limited protein diet having a positive effect on the incidence of cancer (they didn't explain the mechanism) within a limited calorie diet (CRON). They found intermittent fasting to have the same benefit as constant calorie restriction, but mention lowered protein causing the benefit.

Two things I wonder about- What level should protein be to maintain our body structure, but not be excessive? (I suspect that is individual) -and- What if you keep protein at the right level (whatever that is), but calories at normal levels from the consumption of fat? Is there the same benefit?
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:16 AM   #3
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Cathy, there is an interesting article by Dr. John Yudkin at Barry Groves' site, "Why Low-Carb Diets Must Be High-Fat, Not High-Protein".

Dr. Jan Kwasniewski addresses the high biological value of certain protein foods over others: egg yolks and offal, particularly. And, that the main fuel for the brain is ATP. He also addresses gluconeogenesis, and excess nitrogen.

Dr. Ron Rosedale addresses the rapamycin, thermogenesis, and others problems of eating too much protein.

I don't know what links are all right to post. Kwasniewski's Optimal Nutrition site can be read through Google translator. Barry Groves' site is called Second Opinions.

Peter Dobromylskyj's blog, Hyperlipid, has several posts on Kwasniewski, and protein amounts. Peter's posts, and the agreement in protein amounts among Dr. Richard Bernstein, Dr. Kwasniewski, and Dr. Rosedale, gave me peace of mind about using the Kwasniewski calculations for protein amounts.

Hope this is of use.
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:23 AM   #4
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Thank you for posting on this subject. I have been trying to figure out ideal protein levels for some time now and find it frustrating. For example in Phinney & Volek's book Art and Science of LC Living on page 44, they state they recommend 1.5 - 2.0 grams per kilogram reference weight.

I cannot find how they are defining "reference weight". I believe some think it is LBM and some believe (me) it is what your body should ideally weigh.Not a number you pick, but what your body should weigh based on your height and frame. Now obviously these two equations would differ greatly.

If someone could give me the correct info as to how to calculate protein needs, I would be so grateful.
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:31 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by grneyedldy View Post
If someone could give me the correct info as to how to calculate protein needs, I would be so grateful.
As would I.
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Old 12-26-2014, 12:43 PM   #6
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I don't know if Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's method will appeal to all, but I find it easy to use, and like it very much.

The protein amounts are determined according to height, in centimeters.
One inch = 2.54 cms.

Here is the post from the Kwasniewski thread which explains how to figure protein.

Here is that part of the post:

In order to work out the correct daily food intake using this proportion, one has to know how many grams of protein needs to be ingested in a day to satisfy body's requirements. This amount varies from person to person and depends on a "due body weight". Due body weight, in kilograms, is equal to person's height in centimetres less 100 (± 10%). Thus, for a person 160 cm tall, a due body weight is 60 kg ± 6 kg.
A correct amount of protein to be consumed in a day is approx. 1 g per 1 kilogram of a due body weight. Thus, a 60 kg person needs to consume 60 ± 6 g of protein to satisfy body's daily needs. Any excess of protein, above the daily requirement, is converted by the body to fat, provided energy requirements are met by other components.


Dr. Richard Bernstein says .8 g/PRO per Kg of ideal weight, but he doesn't state how to calculate ideal weight. I have always found the 100 lb for five feet plus five pounds per inch, to be a useful standard for me. When I was young, I thought that was heavy, but now it seems a tad light. Anyway, for my build, it has been a good middle quideline.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-26-2014, 01:42 PM   #7
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I've emailed Dr. Phinney with the question. I hope he replies.
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Old 12-27-2014, 07:29 AM   #8
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The way I have arrived at what I believe to be a good amount of protein is to use my desired and reasonable target weight (one that I weighed for a number of years and not a vanity weight). That is 130 lbs.. Then divide that by 2.2 (metric system) and I get 59g. My target protein intake is 60g per day.

It is impossible to get exactly that amount each day because of the obvious homemade foods, exact amounts in individual meats, incomplete proteins in veggies, and the other many factors. Also some times I am just not that hungry..... Sometimes, I do a bit of a protein fast (i.e. fat fast). But in general, I meet that target pretty closely most days.

Excellent references Auntie Em. I have not read any Masterjohn literature in a while and am enjoying his writings again. Thank you!
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Old 12-27-2014, 07:52 AM   #9
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By using this calculation, I came out at 63 gr of protein. In looking back over my tracking calendar I realized that I am always pretty close to that number. I am usually within a couple of gr on average every single week. I guess by keeping my macro percents in line I arrived there quite naturally.
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:06 AM   #10
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Cathy, Thanks for your kind thoughts. I like your method.

Do you think that Dr. Rosedale's method at weight in Kg. - 10% is a tad low?
His PRO numbers are lower than those of Drs. Bernstein, and, Kwasniewski.

My vanity ideal weight is the same as yours. I sometimes eat and live so that I am at 128-132 lbs, but it always seems that I am on a weight-loss diet to stay at that weight. It isn't a big deal to eat and live to stay at 139-142, and I often stay there, esp. in the winter. I have to pay attention and track carefully, not to go too high or too low on the PRO and FAT, staying at ca. 35g/CHO is fairly easy.

I do wonder how we each pick an "ideal" weight, esp. as Peter D. has posted that all-cause mortality rate for women goes up markedly, at under 22% body fat. Even when I am at 128-130, there is a voice in my mind saying that I should be thinner. I think it is an internalized monster, from others' opinions about how women should be. That ol' subject....

Frteach, I, too, find I come to the number naturally. Hope you are doing well.
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:15 AM   #11
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yes, I think there is a little devil on my shoulder that is always critical of my appearance. I feel really quite well at the weight I am but I do not fit into the healthy weight zone and struggle with that all the time ... all the time.

I recently (in the past few months) have been purposely not tracking food but eating what I am comfortable with and it seems that I stay the same. This past week or so I have been pushing the limit with 'treats' (nuts and sugar alcohols). I feel the impact and am very anxious to get back to my norm. I have however, managed to stay in a good range of ketosis.

Frteach, I too find that I land at a good amount if I am mindful of the amount of protein I choose for my evening meal. But I do have to be mindful most of the time. If I have a larger than my norm lamb chop for dinner that means I have to really limit any other source of protein for the day. I am quite sure this does not mitigate entirely, but .... it doesn't happen very often.
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Old 12-27-2014, 09:46 AM   #12
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Eating too little protein is also bad. I think we need to be careful to calculate correct amounts of protein for the type of nutrition plan we follow. The SAD is going to tell us we need almost no protein at all simply because it recommends high carbs.

Also, most sources simply talk about "too much" protein being bad but never actually define what too much is.
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:21 AM   #13
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Hi Deb.

I think most articles are unspecific on exact amounts of protein because it is highly individual. Each person must work out what are their needs. 'Too much' goes beyond the individual's requirements. I would require less protein than a young, physically active male or a growing teenager.

If a person is not getting enough protein, I do believe that the 'symptoms' become fairly obvious fairly quickly. This being, fatigue. Although fatigue can be something else, the quickest response is to up protein.

By the end of a 3 day fat fast (which is protein sparing as well), I feel a bit tired. But when returning to my usual protein consumption, all of that quickly disappears.

Personally, I would prefer to have too little protein than too much as the consequences of too much over time, appears to be pretty risky. Too much protein is hard on a body.

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