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Old 04-30-2014, 06:34 AM   #1
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Kicked out of ketosis again..

I been struggling to stay in ketosis. I am stay below 20 grams of carbs and that's total not net.

Yesterday I did screw up but it surprised me how little amount of carbs It took me to be thrown out of ketosis. I had two dark chocolate covered almonds. This was at the whole foods check out..it was a freebie I guess I could not resists. The carb count was 5 at max. I tested later that day and I was .4

I ate my so called low carb dinner which was a Cuban pot recipe (i breathe i'm hungry) with cheddar and 30% fat sour cream. I woke up, worked out with weights and skipped rope to my surprise I am even worse then last night I am at .2 so this is frustrating.

So was the dark chocolate covered almonds the culprit? Or am a doomed to stay away from all dairy and eat low protein.. I guess I can start testing and re add foods.. just sucks when you have goals to reach and I am on my fifth or sixth week with about 3 pounds lost and that's at about 1700-2000 cal a day.. Any suggestions?
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:38 AM   #2
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Carb intake looks fine. How many grams of protein are you consuming in a day?
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:39 AM   #3
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What are you testing with? Do you test your blood or your urine?

I for one would never rely on the stix. From what I've read they really are no indication at all whether or not you're in ketosis. If you're staying under 20 g carbs/day I see no reason why you wouldn't be in ketosis.

Edited to add-it appears you're using blood monitoring. In that case-others with much more experience and knowledge than I have will be along.

I'm curious myself to figure out if one bad day can kick you out of ketosis completely, and how long it takes to get back in it.

Last edited by earthcrosser; 04-30-2014 at 06:42 AM..
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:48 AM   #4
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Freebies are a pain! I've been sampling at my food coop, thinking it's such a small amount, but I am pretty much in a stall and I need to cut where I can. So I appreciate your post for reminding me of that!

I am a bit of a skeptic about the direct causes and effect relationship of a bit of food and a keto reading. It's difficult for me to figure how anyone could reach a conclusion about those two chocolate covered almonds. My view is that it's better to stick to your WOE for a good time and reassess and tinker after you get some time to give your body a chance to adjust. Patience is your friend.

With dairy, I suggest keep it for now but really monitor quantity. It's really easy to go over board with cheese and dairy. Some labels say cheese is 0 per ounce, but that is misleading because all cheese has carbs and they creep in with quantity.

There are some really smart people here about commenting on your daily menu if you post here. Is your WOE Atkins?
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:28 AM   #5
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Working out WILL lower your blood level, not raise it - I don't have a link that would be allowed here, but the consensus on some other keto forums was that when you're working out, you're burning up your ketones and if you haven't replenished, you're at a deficit, but you've used your store of ketones. Next time check your blood BEFORE you work out.

Re: almonds, what else did you eat prior to your blood testing? That can also be a factor. How long after eating? Did you exercise?

Take comfort in the knowledge that you ate the almonds, stayed in ketosis (lower level) and that by the next day, you were in ketosis.

Re: your progress - 3# in 5-6 weeks isn't fast, but how much of a deficit are you eating? Reason asking, if you're at a 300 calorie deficit, you can predict about 12 days to lose a pound. If you weighed 50# more than you do, your deficit would be higher and loss would be faster.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:29 AM   #6
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I am 192 pounds about 25% body fat. I wanted to keep to protein around 149 grams because I would like to get a bit of muscle growth but the truth is I been eating around 93-120 grams of protein for the last few weeks. My WOE is keto.. If WOE means WOE ( I just looked that up lol) I will start adding my cheese carbs as the labels at not accurate. Maybe it's small things like that that can make the difference. But to go down to a .2 blood reading seems low.. after all I did not go eat a big bowl of ice cream...
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:34 AM   #7
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Hi there, we posted at the same time, so not sure if you saw my previous post.

The 0.2 is after you depleted your ketones from working out.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarr View Post
Re: almonds, what else did you eat prior to your blood testing? That can also be a factor. How long after eating?
I ate some duck.. so very fatty and had about 25 G protein, Green beans.. oh yes and some pork rinds..

I like to exercise on an empty stomach assuming my body would be using my fat for energy...
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:49 AM   #9
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Hi Lesismore,

I think I may be similar to you. I have to keep my carbs at 10-20 a day and protein at around 80g or I have problems. Even a teeny tiny bit of fruit (less than a bite) will kick me out even if my carbs are still easily within the limit. It is also possible that it is stress or even a food that you can not tolerate- possibly the nuts?- kicked you out. Maybe there was something in the chocolate covered almonds that your body did not like.

I think some of us are just more metabolically damaged than others, and need to tweak more to get in a good rhythm. It kind of sucks, but I also think we have that much more to benefit from this WOE. It also seems like many people can tolerate a little more as their systems are healed, so we have that to look forward to.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesismore View Post
I ate some duck.. so very fatty and had about 25 G protein, Green beans.. oh yes and some pork rinds..

I like to exercise on an empty stomach assuming my body would be using my fat for energy...
It is good to exercise on an empty stomach. In this WOE I tend to get the best workout that way, but also, exercising before eating rather than after means that yes, you are burning fat, and you are also more insulin tolerant. The food you eat after a workout will also most likely replenish your glycogen stores which means... more muscle building and more fat burning!

You may want to test ketones before exercising though, to get an accurate reading.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:55 AM   #11
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I'm a newbie and learning. How long does it take after you start to go into ketosis? Also, if you get kicked out as described, does that mean you stop losing weight, start gaining weight, or continue to lose but at a slower rate?
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:57 AM   #12
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Hi Lesismore,

I think I may be similar to you. I have to keep my carbs at 10-20 a day and protein at around 80g or I have problems. Even a teeny tiny bit of fruit (less than a bite) will kick me out even if my carbs are still easily within the limit. It is also possible that it is stress or even a food that you can not tolerate- possibly the nuts?- kicked you out. Maybe there was something in the chocolate covered almonds that your body did not like.

I think some of us are just more metabolically damaged than others, and need to tweak more to get in a good rhythm. It kind of sucks, but I also think we have that much more to benefit from this WOE. It also seems like many people can tolerate a little more as their systems are healed, so we have that to look forward to.

Metabolically damaged this could be the case.. I been yo yo ing for many years (180lbs-212), low cal diets ect... So I guess I will just take it slow figure out my limits.. Stress could also be a factor combined with low sleep (teething 10 month old). Nut's I can cut out easily. Does dairy effect you levels? I am not one to be testing constantly but for know I guess I will have to until I get it nailed down.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarr View Post
Re: your progress - 3# in 5-6 weeks isn't fast, but how much of a deficit are you eating? Reason asking, if you're at a 300 calorie deficit, you can predict about 12 days to lose a pound. If you weighed 50# more than you do, your deficit would be higher and loss would be faster.
I have to disagree with this. There is no accurate science to calculate expected weight-loss by calorie deficit. I don't believe in the calorie theory anyway, but that is because I am all the proof I need personally to disprove it for my body. I have lost weight eating more, gained weight eating less, and feel kind of like a freak of nature, lol. I don't expect that to be enough proof for anyone else, but I have never come anywhere close to the expected loss for my calorie deficit and most people do not. According to the tracker I use when I am using one I should have lost at least 20 additional pounds just since starting keto. It makes sense that those calculations are not accurate to me because each person has a different metabolism, different levels of stress, different hormone levels and different sleep quality, and all of these things will effect that calculation.

I feel sad when I see this kind of thing because it makes me feel like I am being told yet again that overweight people are eating too much and not exercising enough- which I know is not what you are saying AT ALL - I have just heard it so many times that it makes me feel emotional, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is not true in my case, and these calculations are not accurate, and I am sure there are others that experience the same thing.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:21 AM   #14
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I'm on the same page as Erica . . . there's too much individual variation to make such predictions.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lesismore View Post
Metabolically damaged this could be the case.. I been yo yo ing for many years (180lbs-212), low cal diets ect... So I guess I will just take it slow figure out my limits.. Stress could also be a factor combined with low sleep (teething 10 month old). Nut's I can cut out easily. Does dairy effect you levels? I am not one to be testing constantly but for know I guess I will have to until I get it nailed down.
Sleep is a killer too. I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old, so they are not teething any more but I know what that is like. It will pass soon

I do not have dairy issues with ketone levels, but many people do have problems with dairy. If you are writing down your food at all you may be able to pinpoint some problem areas. I would eliminate one thing at a time and see how it makes you feel and then move on from there.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:37 AM   #16
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Erica - I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm sorry that my wording might have come across as insensitive.

I should have said that IN GENERAL the closer to goal or ideal weight, the slower the loss because there is a lower deficit (300 calories, as an example) and that 12 day per pound loss would yield < 3# per month. You're right - there is no accurate science to calculate, so the best we can do is guess or predict based on our own bodies and knowledge. Unfortunately, with all diets, people love to shout out about the huge early losses and rarely do we hear about the possible struggles to drop the last few pounds.

You raised a good point that any responses here should be careful to not over-generalize and qualify with a YMMV and other considerations.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:46 AM   #17
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Erica - I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm sorry that my wording might have come across as insensitive.

I should have said that IN GENERAL the closer to goal or ideal weight, the slower the loss because there is a lower deficit (300 calories, as an example) and that 12 day per pound loss would yield < 3# per month. You're right - there is no accurate science to calculate, so the best we can do is guess or predict based on our own bodies and knowledge. Unfortunately, with all diets, people love to shout out about the huge early losses and rarely do we hear about the possible struggles to drop the last few pounds.

You raised a good point that any responses here should be careful to not over-generalize and qualify with a YMMV and other considerations.
I know you were not trying to be insensitive, I know you are awesome, kind, and smart and not trying to hurt any feelings, I just felt the need to add my point of view. I am sorry, I know I can be abrasive.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:18 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Lesismore View Post
I been struggling to stay in ketosis. I am stay below 20 grams of carbs and that's total not net.

Yesterday I did screw up but it surprised me how little amount of carbs It took me to be thrown out of ketosis. I had two dark chocolate covered almonds. This was at the whole foods check out..it was a freebie I guess I could not resists. The carb count was 5 at max. I tested later that day and I was .4

I ate my so called low carb dinner which was a Cuban pot recipe (i breathe i'm hungry) with cheddar and 30% fat sour cream. I woke up, worked out with weights and skipped rope to my surprise I am even worse then last night I am at .2 so this is frustrating.

So was the dark chocolate covered almonds the culprit? Or am a doomed to stay away from all dairy and eat low protein.. I guess I can start testing and re add foods.. just sucks when you have goals to reach and I am on my fifth or sixth week with about 3 pounds lost and that's at about 1700-2000 cal a day.. Any suggestions?
I wouldn't worry about it. It is a one day thing. Just stay away from sugar most of the time. You may be eating too much fiber. Fiber always keeps me from losing.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:15 PM   #19
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Lack of sleep is HUGE on so many levels. It not only raises your cortisol levels and inhibits fat burning, it also lowers your resistance to things like Whole Foods freebies.

Blame the baby.



Seriously, though, I think it'll have to be trial and error in terms of dairy and nuts both.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:38 PM   #20
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Are you still having all your protein in a single meal? I think that could be slowing you down.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:33 AM   #21
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I am back to 3 meals each with protein. As far as sleep I try my best. In bed by 10 but up at 12, 3, 5... lol
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:35 AM   #22
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Are you saying you sleep like a baby - waking up every 2-3 hours (screaming)?
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:19 PM   #23
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Not screaming yet... but if this keeps up much longer you never know
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