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-   Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/)
-   -   I did it, I ordered a Ketonix Breath Meter (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/826984-i-did-i-ordered-ketonix-breath-meter.html)

Janknitz 04-02-2014 05:33 PM

I did it, I ordered a Ketonix Breath Meter
 
I really, really wanted to measure blood ketones and finally bit the bullet to buy strips for my Precision meter, but they never showed up and it took nearly a month for me to get my money back (Thanks to PayPal!).

It just seems like SO much money for 50 strips that I know I'll run through far too fast because I will want to measure all the time. "Hmm, if I try THIS, what will my blood ketones do?" "What will my blood ketones measure if I do THAT?". Boom, out of strips, another $100 to spend.

So for $100 I got a ketone breath meter. It can be used as often as I like, a one time only payment.

I don't know how accurate it is and how accurately it tracks blood ketones. Some blogs suggest it's pretty spot on, others say it's in the ball park but not precise. The website itself suggests using the meter during the week and checking blood ketones on weekends for comparison. The best of both worlds would have been to get some strips, too, so I could compare my readings on each. But buying the meter is the limit of my budget for the time being.

I'm sure it will take a while to get here, but I'll keep you posted. And I'm interested in hearing from anyone else who has gotten one.

Ntombi 04-02-2014 05:45 PM

Interesting! I look forward to hearing about your results.

I really hope more people who use blood ketone strips will do side-by-side comparisons; the few I've seen so far have been all over the map, and not convincing enough for me to buy the Ketonix.

Janknitz 04-02-2014 07:19 PM

What does seem to be consistent is higher bood ketones do correlate with a higher reading on the meter, so I guess it will be something to aim for.

I'm pretty low carb 20-30 g/day but I've never had symptoms to tell me if I'm in ketosis.

EricaHV 04-02-2014 07:50 PM

Cool! I looked in to this and really wanted one! I look forward to hearing about it!

Fabienne 04-03-2014 09:49 AM

Uh, let us know how it goes. I would love one of those........

MeanieGal 04-03-2014 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16860964)
Interesting! I look forward to hearing about your results.

I really hope more people who use blood ketone strips will do side-by-side comparisons; the few I've seen so far have been all over the map, and not convincing enough for me to buy the Ketonix.

I use both the urine keto stix and my ketone blood meter daily. I usually use the strips first and then check my blood about 15 minutes later. I hear constantly that the urine strips can be very inaccurate, but in my case, they seem to match very closely every single time. Now that y'all have told me about this ketonix meter...I MUST HAVE ONE! I might be overkill on this ketogenic diet, but I was recently TOSSED COMPLETELY out of ketosis by eating Kale. Fool me once :)

Ntombi 04-03-2014 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janknitz (Post 16861044)
What does seem to be consistent is higher bood ketones do correlate with a higher reading on the meter, so I guess it will be something to aim for.

I'm pretty low carb 20-30 g/day but I've never had symptoms to tell me if I'm in ketosis.

One of the charts I saw didn't even correlate that much, at least not consistently. It was all over the place, sometimes with high readings on both, but other times with one being high, and the other moderate or even low! The sample is too small for statistical significance, but I wasn't really impressed. I'll keep watching, though: I'm interested in how the next version improves things.

MeanieGal 04-03-2014 02:40 PM

I see that the breath meter is about $100. Well, I just spend 150.00 on ketone strips, 20.00 on a ketone meter and 10.00 on urine strips........another 100.00 for something that y'all are saying may be iffy???? I don't know....Maybe I wait and be patient for a change!

EricaHV 04-03-2014 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanieGal (Post 16862028)
I see that the breath meter is about $100. Well, I just spend 150.00 on ketone strips, 20.00 on a ketone meter and 10.00 on urine strips........another 100.00 for something that y'all are saying may be iffy???? I don't know....Maybe I wait and be patient for a change!

The blood strips should be fairly accurate, the urine strips supposedly are not very accurate.

Janknitz 04-03-2014 03:11 PM

Yes, it's $100. But that's unlimited testing for $100, not $100 for 50 or fewer tests. Not worth it if there's no accuracy, I agree, but if there's at least some correlation, then it's better than nothing, which is what I have now. :dunno:

I'm kind of fed up with my blood glucose meter, too. In preparation for the ketone blood strips that never arrived, I got a Precision meter with 10 free strips. Well those strips were 20 to 30 points off my usual BG meter, which correlates pretty closely to my lab FBG's. So how do you know WHAT's correct anyway??? I'm hoping it will be at least useful for trends.

The blogger I saw who had poor correlation speculated on why there are discrepancies--it could be that the blood BHOB lags behind the acetone, that the breathing into the meter tube is not consistent, many things. I'm "Practicing" slow, full exhalations without a deep breath first, so I can at least be consistent about how I blow into the meter.

I would love to do the blood ketone testing, but it's so expensive and I know I would be reordering too quickly. That's not sustainable for our budget.

MeanieGal 04-07-2014 09:00 AM

So how is the ketonix going?? I'm very anxious to hear!!! BTW....I buy my ketone strips for my precision xtra on ebay...it's cheaper that way.

jessworth 04-07-2014 09:57 AM

If the breath meter readings correlate to the blood meter readings for some people but not for others, doesn't that make it just as unreliable as the urine sticks? I'm really just curious.

Janknitz 04-07-2014 04:44 PM

Meanie, I'll let you know when I get it.

Quote:

If the breath meter readings correlate to the blood meter readings for some people but not for others, doesn't that make it just as unreliable as the urine sticks? I'm really just curious.
That's going to be the $64K question when I get it, because I won't have any real way of knowing without blood test strips to compare. :dunno:

I'm hoping I can use it at least for trending. I'll work my hardest to get into ketosis and then see what it indicates, then eat what I think is too many carbs, to see what happens.

I believe the reason urine sticks are inaccurate is that once your body is efficiently burning ketones it doesn't necessarily have extra to spill into the urine. So you may be in deep ketosis without indicating it on the test strips. The other thing is that your level of hydration can affect the results on the strips. Higher concentrations of ketones will be indicated when you are dehydrated.

I don't know if the same principles to breath ketones. Exhalation is a waste disposal process, so it might make sense that you would have fewer breath ketones if your body is efficiently using them. But I don't think the hydration level should affect breath ketones unless you become very dehydrated. (I may be wrong).

It will be a learning curve.

MeanieGal 04-08-2014 03:34 AM

I'm anxious to hear all about your results. I actively use both the urine strips and the blood ketone meter. This morning my blood meter showed 1.7 but my urine strips showed small to moderate levels of ketones. I'm assuming this means that I'm using my ketones and excreting less of them. That's why I use both, so I know what's going on with my body. I'm interested in the ketonix because, like everyone else, I'm concerned about the price of the ketone blood strips. I get mine off ebay, but they are still pretty expensive. I got lucky and purchased 50 for $150.00 bucks, but later only got 20 for $35.00. No matter how you look at it, those strips are wildly expensive. I think it's interesting that the glucose strips are cheap but the ketone strips are pricey. Personally, I think it's a DIET THING. The manufacturers know that dieters use them and that's how they can crank up the price! They know that people on a weight loss mission will spend plenty of money to get to their goal. NOT FAIR! :down:

EricaHV 04-08-2014 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanieGal (Post 16867633)
Personally, I think it's a DIET THING. The manufacturers know that dieters use them and that's how they can crank up the price! They know that people on a weight loss mission will spend plenty of money to get to their goal. NOT FAIR! :down:


I totally agree !

MeanieGal 04-08-2014 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaHV (Post 16868083)
I totally agree !

My girlfriend gave me a magnet a long time ago that reads "With the time and energy we've spent DIETING, we could have built a small, FAT-LOVING civilization". Ain't it the gospel!

EricaHV 04-08-2014 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanieGal (Post 16868318)
My girlfriend gave me a magnet a long time ago that reads "With the time and energy we've spent DIETING, we could have built a small, FAT-LOVING civilization". Ain't it the gospel!

I love that!

clackley 04-09-2014 06:36 AM

I will be very interested to hear your experiences with this.

I think I have read that of the 3 ketone bodies, there is one that is lost through respiration and that must be what that metre would be testing for???? It would not be the same as the urine strips - no?

MsKitty 04-09-2014 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16869276)
I will be very interested to hear your experiences with this.

Me too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16869276)
I think I have read that of the 3 ketone bodies, there is one that is lost through respiration and that must be what that metre would be testing for????

According to their website, yes. It measures acetone in the breath, though I'm not sure if the acetone is considered the same compound if excreted via kidneys versus via lungs, but I'm thinking they're probably both considered "acetoacetone," and I'm puzzling that out in my further research now.
According to Wikipedia for Ketonuria: Ketone bodies that commonly appear in the urine when fats are burned for energy are acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyric acid. Acetone is also produced and is expired by the lungs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16869276)
It would not be the same as the urine strips - no?

It might or might not, depending upon your kidney function, it would seem?
Circulating blood contains acetoacetone and is filtered by the kidneys, but our lungs are a different type of filter for oxygen exchange - so that is what the Ketonix system seems to be banking on.

clackley 04-09-2014 07:25 AM

I have read that the most 'desirable' ketone is the beta-hydroxybutyric acid ketone but I cannot remember why that is. I do think that the others are a measure of ketosis in at least a recent past context and that it can be useful info.

MsKitty 04-09-2014 07:42 AM

Well, I read something here last night, but I can't find it now.
It was referencing an article explaining the two.
It basically said that at first you have the acetoacetone but then your body does the beta-hydroxybutyric. So that is why many people don't show urine ketones even if they truly are in ketosis.
Wish I could find that darned post again. I really have to be better about bookmarking some of these reference things. :annoyed:

jessworth 04-09-2014 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsKitty (Post 16869393)
Well, I read something here last night, but I can't find it now.
It was referencing an article explaining the two.
It basically said that at first you have the acetoacetone but then your body does the beta-hydroxybutyric. So that is why many people don't show urine ketones even if they truly are in ketosis.
Wish I could find that darned post again. I really have to be better about bookmarking some of these reference things. :annoyed:

I "lose" threads and posts all the time! So frustrating!

sbarr 04-11-2014 06:45 AM

Have you gotten it yet? Look forward to your results. While the ketonix measures something different than blood, it will be good to know that while values and counts differ, do they provide essentially the same basic information. Can you draw the same conclusions?

Are you in ketosis or not?

Caseyjmc 04-11-2014 01:01 PM

I bought one
 
I'm female, 59. I track my food.

I decided that the ketostix were a waste since they showed nothing, and the blood ketone strips are a ripoff, so I thought, what the heck? I spent $108 (shipping included). I've been suckered out of a lot worse in my life!

I received it in about 2 weeks. They have no way for us to track it along the route from Sweden to the US, so I just had to trust it would arrive at some point. It did. Came with a soft case.

It plugs into the USB port of a computer but does nothing with the computer. I haven't tried using a USB port from a USB wall plug. I assume there is a reason to use the computer, and I fear I might ruin it otherwise. Maybe not...

Anyway, quick background...
Have been doing low carb for 4 months, lost nothing. Gave up ALL sweeteners (getting used to my coffee with just heavy cream--never thought it could happen--still dream of the days...)

Started reading Jimmy Moore's experience and started doing macros of 80-85% fat, 3-10% carbs, 10-17% protein for about three weeks. Before that, the strips showed .1 (not in ketosis). After the first day with my new macros, I showed .3 (still not in ketosis, but woohoo 3X the .1). By the second day, I was seeing .9 (in ketosis), then 1.4, then back down to .1 - .7, depending on the day. .5 is considered the low end of being in ketosis.
Since the new macros, I have been showing a slow weight loss. (Got a two day bout of Noro virus which dropped me 5 lbs, but I wouldn't recommend it as a diet!). That weight has come up to where it would have been had I not gotten sick, and it is dropping, maybe a lb/week.

I decided to get the Ketonix so I could check my ketones throughout the day, after eating, exercise, etc.

Results (Blue=no ketones, Green=some ketones, Yellow=moderate amount of ketones, Red=a lot of ketones):

I am showing yellow most of the time, red a couple of times (particularly in the early evening). It makes sense given what I'm eating. The blood strips made mostly no sense to me. So, I'm happy with the Ketonix for now. For me it is like a map, keeping me on track.

I have no cravings, eat well, have gobs of energy, and will be getting the big blood test from my lipodologist in May. I've had three already, and it was discovered that all my numbers are optimal (meaning excellent) since doing low carb, except my LDL-p (the small particles were at 1900 no matter how good the other things were--they want me under 1000), so they checked me genetically and said I needed to take 40 mg of Atorvastatin (Lipitor). My last test showed that my LDL-p was down to 700ish, but that suddenly my once optimal inflammation was now high risk. The only thing I did differently was to start eating a lot of Nutiva Extra Virgin coconut oil. So, I've stopped that to see if the numbers go back to being optimal.

More to report in May...
Meantime, I'm ok with the Ketonix. If you get one, take a normal breath and blow easy for more than 15 seconds, until you are ready to take another breath. Then just stop and watch the tube. The colors will come.

:clap:One more thing...
It takes a long time to warm up, so once you plug it in, it will flash blue a long time, then suddenly become solid. That's when you blow. Once you see your color, unplug it and keep it in its pouch to avoid dust getting in. It's a long way to Sweden!:D

sbarr 04-11-2014 01:19 PM

Casey - thanks for your experience with it.

Do you have a mapping of your blood levels against the ketonix? I'd be interested to see the cutoff threshold to go from green to yellow to red correlates well with the blood numbers.

I'm currently using a Precision Xtra, which I really like - and has shown me 1.5-3.4 for the past couple of weeks and the cost certainly adds up.

Caseyjmc 04-12-2014 09:14 AM

Hi sbarr,

It's too expensive for me to use both each time so I don't have a mapping per se. What I do find is that the red light correlates with me having more than .5 on my Precision Xtra, and the yellow light shows me having about .3. But sometimes my strip says .1 while the Ketonix says yellow.

I just don't know what to think about the Precision results since I am truly doing strict ~85 fat, ~12 protein, and ~5 Carbs. Really less carbs, but I track my food on a famous site that doesn't allow for net carbs, so I can only guess about the carbs. The Ketonix seems to make more sense in its results for me since I can eat a very strict meal and the Precision puts me at .1 and the Ketonix shows yellow. It has never shown me green or blue, but does show blue for my wife who eats carbs. See what I mean?

sbarr 04-12-2014 11:47 AM

Casey - interesting. I've been shooting for 1.5-3.0 ongoing.

My food tracker doesn't back out fiber for net carbs, but I have found that in the food database, there are several foods set up with net carbs and I've created a few of my own custom foods where I wanted to have thing precise.

I'm still trying to find that sweet spot, where weight loss is consistent, food consumption is satisfying and figure out the blood ketone level associated with that. Until I know me better (and my blood strips run out), I'll probably track daily. Best bet would be I eventually know my body and can predict the ketone level within a range based on prior day's consumption and physical activity and either check weekly or if I'm sure I fall out of ketosis.

Not enough data points for that! :)

Mr_Geiri 04-12-2014 07:12 PM

You can easily set up a formula in excel so you can have your own "rules" / formula when tracking the food.

Janknitz 04-12-2014 09:59 PM

Thanks for your info, Casey! It sounds like it does correlate well to dietary intake at least. And the fact that you are losing is a good sign. I'm 54, and any weight loss is a bonus at this point!

Caseyjmc 04-12-2014 10:51 PM

I'm showing yellow most of the day, but in the evenings, it's always red. This does correlate with the blood ketone meter, where my highest ketone levels happened at night. I'm real happy with the fact that I am in ketosis most of the time.

And my wife had a partial knee replacement this week, which means she must do several resistance exercises three times daily. I join her in doing these, and hopefully it will show in reducing my weight. Time will tell...


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