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Old 04-23-2014, 02:10 PM   #61
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Which is why you shouldn't refuse even if you suspect you might get a false result.

Here you would not get a automatic DUI but if you refuse to blow then just like when you fail the breathalyzer test they take you down to the station and take blood. They would rather tie you down and take a blood test than let you skip it because it's the only way to confirm a DUI under the law and people shouldn't get away with drunk driving simply by refusing to cooperate.

I really hope there aren't places where a breathalyzer alone could get you sentenced for DUI because it's not a really accurate measurement.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:39 PM   #62
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I think the law in California is that you can request a blood test INSTEAD of a breathalyzer, but if you refuse either one you get an automatic DUI. If you agree to the breathalyzer, they can (and WILL) use that alone to convict you. So will need to do some research about whether ketones could come up positive on a breathalyzer! Not that I plan to be pulled over any time soon, but wouldn't that be a *&^%$???
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:15 PM   #63
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I would always request a blood test instead of (or in addition to) the breathalyzer. Even if the breathalyzer came up with you over the limit, the blood test would legally trump it.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:45 PM   #64
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I wouldn't trust police officers to make sure you get a blood test after a positive breath test. They have their evidence and may be disinclined to help you get yours.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:02 PM   #65
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I once worked for a company that did random drug testing. The woman I used to lunch with was having some personal problems and they tested her for drugs. Because I lunched with her, they tested me as well - hardly 'random'. Meanwhile, the same day, I had my own test done because they could not be trusted.
The next day, I gave two weeks notice just because I didn't like being incorrectly and needlessly harassed and targeted when I had done nothing to give them cause.
I would do that all again in a heartbeat, including with police.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:36 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Janknitz View Post
I wouldn't trust police officers to make sure you get a blood test after a positive breath test. They have their evidence and may be disinclined to help you get yours.
I'd call that a bad justice system if it's that easy for the police. A case without blood test should be thrown out period.

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I once worked for a company that did random drug testing. The woman I used to lunch with was having some personal problems and they tested her for drugs. Because I lunched with her, they tested me as well - hardly 'random'. Meanwhile, the same day, I had my own test done because they could not be trusted.
The next day, I gave two weeks notice just because I didn't like being incorrectly and needlessly harassed and targeted when I had done nothing to give them cause.
I would do that all again in a heartbeat, including with police.
As if having drugs in your system automatically makes you untrustworthy or less capable of doing your job. I really hate the hypocrisy of society. You can easily get away with abusing painkillers and alcohol but god forbid they find some marijuana in your system (which by the way can be traced weeks after your consumed it, so it says nothing about your state of mind when it was taken).

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Old 04-24-2014, 03:46 PM   #67
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...As if having drugs in your system automatically makes you untrustworthy or less capable of doing your job. I really hate the hypocrisy of society. You can easily get away with abusing painkillers and alcohol but god forbid they find some marijuana in your system (which by the way can be traced weeks after your consumed it, so it says nothing about your state of mind when it was taken).
I accepted it as a part of the job before taking it. The problem I had was guilt by association. We all avoided things like poppy seeds because of the potential to come up hot on a drug test. It is a standard for healthcare professionals in the state, and it was a state-related contractual employer.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:00 PM   #68
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Yeah I know usually it's because you sign a contract so that's why they can do it.

The policy still annoys me though.
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:50 AM   #69
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Just get a job working for the state government. Hypocrisy in action. They don't drug test. It's one of those thing that you don't notice they're not doing until you work around people that need to be tested. I found out later that I was surrounded by cocaine and meth addicts, sometimes in very sensitive and dangerous work.

Ok. So no more thread high-jacking. This is interesting and all, but it should probably be on another thread.

Back to the ketonix meter. Again, I'm hoping for the next version to be out soon, otherwise, I'll be purchasing one in the next couple of months.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:23 AM   #70
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It's out. Check the site.
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:18 AM   #71
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Great! It looks like the site has just been updated.
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:11 AM   #72
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Hi all, thought I'd give a quick update as I've had my Ketonix for a week, now. Mostly, it's boring. I tend to blow low ketones in the morning, and moderate ketones the rest of the day. Yesterday was odd though. I had 0 to trace ketones in the morning and before lunch, but then for the first time I blew red which means high ketones after dinner and before bed. I really upped the fat last night, I think that's why. This morning it was still yellow--moderate ketones, and it has been all day.

For dinner I had some retrograded rice--a good sized serving. But I poured some of the drippings from our roasted chicken thighs on it, so plenty of fat. And still showed moderate ketones tonight.

I think I used to be very low in ketones before--zero to light., maybe moderate part of the day. I'm going to experiment to try to keep it "red" (high ketones) for several days in a row.

But not right away. We leave early tomorrow for a long road trip to attend our nephew's wedding. Food i always challenging when traveling, especially because we do fast food on the long drive--not much else available in remote California towns like Buttonwillow. I eat bunless burgers and sneak a few french fries when my kids aren't looking and I have coconut oil to eat add to coffee in the morning. I'm not normally a protein bar eater, but this i the exception--I have some Quest bars in case needed. It will be interesting to see how the ketones do with those.
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:27 AM   #73
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Very interesting to see how your body does with the Quest Bars! I'm not a bar person, but I know so many are.

I'm really getting tempted to get a Ketonix, but still not tempted enough yet.
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Old 05-02-2014, 05:07 AM   #74
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The idea of testing without further cost is very appealing. I am tempted as well to get one of these. Looking forward to hearing how your trip goes.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:10 AM   #75
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I fasted this morning--we were out of eggs. I just had coffee with coconut oil. For lunch we stopped at a Denny's where I had a veggie cheese omelette, and I ate hash browns. We did Chevys for dinner where I ate some chips, drank a margarita on the rocks(lots of tequila!) and ate the insides only of fish tacos. But I ate all the rice, some of the beans, and ...

The ketonix shows moderate ketones now at midnight. Scratching my head a bit about that. I expected to be thrown totally out of ketosis. All I can gather is that the starches I ate were surely precooked and reheated (retrograde starch). Either that or the ketonix was affected by the alcohol (more likely).
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Old 05-03-2014, 03:58 AM   #76
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I am wondering if a person is fully keto adapted, that it takes a while for the ketone production to get switched much in the same way that it does in reverse. For most people it takes 2-3 days to go into ketosis - no?
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Old 05-04-2014, 11:35 PM   #77
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The inventor of Ketonix posted a testimonial on Enefeldt's blog. He has epilepsy successfully controlled with a ketogenic diet, but he didn't like the lack of reliabiity from urine strips or the expense and blood from blood ketone strips, so he invented the ketonix. He uses it as a guideline to help him keep his diet in a ketogenic range, and has had no seizures.

I stayed in trace to moderate ketones all weekend, even after I ate most of a slice of wedding cake and mashed potatoes at dinner last night.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:07 AM   #78
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I would always request a blood test instead of (or in addition to) the breathalyzer. Even if the breathalyzer came up with you over the limit, the blood test would legally trump it.
In Washington State, if you have an accident, it will not matter if you are under the legal limit or not. If any alcohol shows up with the breathalyzer test you will be convicted of a DUI without a trial.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:08 AM   #79
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The inventor of Ketonix posted a testimonial on Enefeldt's blog. He has epilepsy successfully controlled with a ketogenic diet, but he didn't like the lack of reliabiity from urine strips or the expense and blood from blood ketone strips, so he invented the ketonix. He uses it as a guideline to help him keep his diet in a ketogenic range, and has had no seizures.

I stayed in trace to moderate ketones all weekend, even after I ate most of a slice of wedding cake and mashed potatoes at dinner last night.
Even if my ketones were good after eating that, my weight would have still been up from that food.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:07 PM   #80
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Quote:
Even if my ketones were good after eating that, my weight would have still been up from that food.
Carolyn
Yep, it was about 3 lbs this morning. Some of it might be water weight, since I was in the car for 9 hours each way (10 on the way there, because of traffic!). My legs swell horribly, despite pressure stockings and pumping my ankles as often as I could. I have primary edema from a genetic disorder. The swelling wasn't as bad as it used to be (MCT oils help, in some way I don't understand).

We ended the weekend jaunt with take out Chinese food because we were exhausted and there was no food in the house (DH does the shopping, and he didn't want things to "go bad"--in the 3 days we were gone-- so our fridge is BARE). I had 1 eggroll (allowable cheat for me) and the sauces on two meat and veggie dishes, then blew RED (high ketones) at bedtime. I'm just not 100% convinced of the accuracy because of things like that. No alcohol to skew results. Other people say that the tiniest bit of carbs over their limit blows them out of ketosis. I've been doing this quite a while, so I may be a very efficient fat burner, but it still makes me wonder . . .

I skipped breakfast except for coffee and coconut oil (IF), since we had no eggs in the house, and lunch was creative--turkey slices wrapped around the last avocado I put in the fried before leaving, dipped in homemade curry mayo--at least I'm back on a ketogenic track!
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:07 AM   #81
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I suspect you can calibrate your testers like you can with the sugar meters. You run the test on a calibration liquid to make sure it is working properly.
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:20 AM   #82
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Can you have someone fully on carbs blow it and see what they get? Would that help?
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:32 PM   #83
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Your results so far are not inspiring confidence.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:15 AM   #84
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You pose an interesting question and that is 'how long does it take to go out of ketosis having been in for a long time? I think it might be like the reverse which takes days to become ketotic.

The other thought is that the body would not suddenly have no ketones as a result of a high carb meal. It would take a while for ketones to clear ... no?
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:25 PM   #85
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I think you're correct, Cathy. I was blue the next morning--no ketones. After a good fat breakfast (scrambled eggs with cheese and half an avocado, plus BPC) I was still blue at lunch, but very stressed at work. Then I really blew it by eating an entire dark chocolate bar meant to last all week (STRESS!!!!). Stayed blue all evening and got the wickedest migraine in the middle of the night--well deserved.

This morning, after eating fairly well yesterday (except for the darn chocolate!), I was back to green. So there does seem to be some lag.

Pinkgirl, from what I understand, someone who is a sugar burner will not get an accurate reading on it, but that does sound like a copout, doesn't it. If all it detects are ketones, you either have them or not. But so far I haven't told any "muggles" about my Ketonix. They already think I'm obsessed. So I don't have anyone to test it out.

Last edited by Janknitz; 05-07-2014 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 05-13-2014, 12:10 PM   #86
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Another update:

I've fallen into a pattern of using my Ketonix 3 to 4 times a day. Generally I see this:

Morning fasting: it's usually green (trace ketones), occasionally blue (no ketones). This morning it was yellow (low ketones), but that's unusual.

Mid-Afternoon, at least 1 hour after lunch: green or yellow.

Bedtime: Yellow or red (moderate to high ketones). Occasionally blue (oops!--directly related to a big cheat, but often back to at least green by morning).

This seems consistent with everything I've read. Ketones are lowest in the morning, as the body burns them up a night. As you ingest fat during the day, the level rises, with them highest at night.

One day I had very severe work stress, and blew blue all day and evening. Not unexpected! (Plus, late in the day I ate way too much dark chocolate and made myself sick!)


This is certainly not as precise as the blood meter, but it tells me a few things:
1. I am in ketosis. I wasn't sure. Unfortunately, I've probably been in ketosis for quite a while, and I've been mostly stalled. So ketosis alone does not bring weight loss.

2. Resistant starches do not throw me out of ketosis. (While surprising, this fits the theory that resistant starches are not metabolized as carbs in the body).

3. Considering the amount of testing I've been able to do with Ketonix in the last few weeks, I've already saved money over buying the blood test strips. The ketonix should go on working for a good, long time without extra cost.

4. I think it's a useful tool to monitor ketosis, to help keep myself on track. It tells me when I've blown it (no pun intended, and I usually know, anyway) and gives reinforcement to good eating habits.

I have two N=1 experiments I intend to try:
a. Try to really load in the fat to stay red for as long as possible and see if that affects weight loss.
b. Try to really load in carbs and decrease fat, keeping the meter blue, to see if that makes me gain weight.

Two quibbles I have with it is that you need to wait at least an hour after eating for an accurate reading--a blood ketone meter can be used any time. And it takes around 5 minutes to initialize. Sometimes I plug it in to initialize and forget it. It gets too hot if you leave it plugged in too long.

VERDICT: (YMMV) Worth the money, a useful tool.

Last edited by Janknitz; 05-13-2014 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:01 PM   #87
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Thanks for the update.
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Old 05-13-2014, 03:39 PM   #88
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Ditto. Looking forward to hearing how your experiments go!
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:35 PM   #89
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I just ordered mine and hope to get it soon. I know I can't be trusted to budget strips so I went this way. Anxiously awaiting....
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:41 AM   #90
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Don't be too dismayed with the low ketone readings in the morning. Most people used to testing blood sugar in the morning for fasting levels make the mistake of expecting ketones to be high.

As part of a normal diurnal waking response, the body secretes a small amount of insulin into the blood stream in the morning to drop blood sugar and cause the body to wake and be hungry. Since insulin is also the negative feedback for blood ketones, those levels would be expected to drop as well.
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