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Old 03-18-2014, 12:05 PM   #1
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New to All of This

Hi, my name is Lynn ...I am 60 years old ...I am a type 2 diabetic and I'm on statins for cholesterol and take scripts for blood pressure.
I am very new to this concept of high fat, low carb...Like I'm just trying to start it today. I have a lot of questions and concerns I am hoping to find answers to if that is alright.

I have been all over the place with my diet lately and I have to find one that works and stick to it. I have been a vegetarian/vegan for the past year and 1/2 and that hasn't exactly worked for me being diabetic because my main source of calories ended up being carbs. I also can't get over the idea that we've been sold, that fat is BAD. I do know however if you're limiting carbs that the only other source of calories is fat. It's quite a conundrum.

I am not trying to lose weight, that is not my problem ...so I wanted to know if the only reason to eat this way is to lose weight or if there are other health benefits to eating this way. I don't want to lose weight because I'm already too skinny ...I lost a lot of body mass/muscle eating the vegan diet. I do however have the carb belly thing. Is there any way to eat this diet and not lose weight? Also is it dangerous for diabetics, because I get light headed and panicky when my blood sugar drops and the first thing I think of doing is grabbing a carb. (I'm not on insulin yet, and I don't want to be). It's getting to the point where I can't eat anything. As soon as I put fats in my mouth for the day, I know I can't then eat carbs or I'm in trouble. I don't know what to do.

If anyone has any advice or information it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Lynn
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:43 PM   #2
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Welcome!

I am not a doctor, and unfortunately there don't seem to be many who are up to date on ketogenic diets, but finding one to work with is a good place to start.

The more I research this, the more I think it is healthy for everyone/most people to eat this way.

Being overweight is often a symptom of metabolic syndrome, which is kind of like pre-diabetes. You are fortunate not to have had that as a symptom.

There are studies with GOOD science showing that a Ketogenic diet is great for a variety of things. Before insulin, a ketogenic diet was used to treat type two diabetes and it is still more effective than insulin for most people (if not all, I just hesitate to say so). It also helps treat epilepsy and prevent Alzheimer's. It reduces risks of heart diseases by lowering high blood pressure, and improving cholesterol ratings. Since cancer feeds on glucose in the body there are even some very interesting studies in early stages showing it may help treat cancer!

Eating this way improves skin, joint lubrication, and cognitive function.

I can go on and on...

I am doing this to lose weight, that I gained during a pregnancy while eating nothing but whole foods and staying active... something that some people tell me they think is impossible, but clearly it is not. I have managed to convince my husband -who is less fit but looks healthier- to eat this way and am trying to transition our two children also.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:14 PM   #3
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Thank you ...very encouraging ...It is just scary to me when I'm eating all the things I have previously considered taboo. I mean FAT ...OMG! ...I have to do a complete turn-around. I'm now eating things I haven't eaten in years. Eggs, bacon, mayo, etc. ...and have to give up some of my favs like oatmeal, and raisin bran. The real test will be when I get a blood test. The last one I had on the vegan diet was disasterous ...My cholesterol and triglycerides were through the roof ...that left me very confused as I was eating no fats or cholesterol.
I am very curious if any one has any blood test results that show how this diet has affected their numbers.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:28 PM   #4
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What I have learned this past month has definitely blown my mind because it is so far off of what we have been told! I was really close to starting a green juice fast and was already drinking fresh green juice three times a day-thinking it was good for me- when I came across the book that changed everything (Why we get fat) !

There is a video interview you may be able to relate to that I would like to share, but I am not sure if I am allowed to link to it?
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:39 PM   #5
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Oopsy!

Unfortunately by 3:30 this afternoon I was feeling pretty crappy ...so I ate a banana and fell asleep for 3 and a half hours. Just got up. I have to figure out how to not let that happen.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:53 AM   #6
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Hi Lynn, Welcome!

By starting this way of eating you are doing your body a great favour! Congratulations on taking that step.

If you feel bad, I highly recommend a nice hot, salty cup of bone broth. Homemade is the best, but there are some broths out there that don't have lots of horrible additives. The salt and minerals in the broth will make you feel better.

Also, make sure you drink enough and eat enough salt. The salt of course if you don't have issues with it to start with! Eating LCHF is diuretic for our bodies, so we lose minerals such as sodium, magnesium and potassium, so we need to make sure we still get enough for our bodies to feel good. A good way is broth, and another good way is adding salt to your food. I highly recommend unrefined salt such as celtic sea salt, himalayan salt or something similar. They are not treated and so will give you more minerals than regular bleached table salt.

Also, if you feel you need to eat something, make sure you have allowed LC foods on hand: a babybel cheese, string cheese, a hardboiled egg, maybe some crispy fried bacon... For a sweet tooth, you could have a tablespoon of creme fraiche or soured cream with a little stevia, really nice and will help you satisfy that sweet craving!

Or do a search for fat bombs, they are really good!!!!

Good luck and well done for taking the first step!

xxx Chloe.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:04 AM   #7
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Welcome, Lynn - I'm new to this, also. I have been on and off low carb for 8+ years and finally settling into this plan.

First, this is NOT just to lose weight. In fact, there is quite a bit of interest in other groups, including athletes and other people interested in health who follow this plan. If you eat at a deficit, you will lose weight, if you eat at equilibrium, you'll be stable, and excess will gain.

You need to find the right balance of high fat, moderate protein and low carbs that will help you achieve your ideal state.

Low Carb Friends has restrictions on posting links to other sites, however, I do suggest that you google "keto ankerl". This will point you to a site that allows you to input existing weight, goal weight and you can work through some estimates to define your macros (these are the grams of fat, protein and carbohydrates you can eat each day).

There are some excellent books and resources - the one I'm reading now: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living.

(Speaking from my past couple of week's introduction into this), I suggest starting with the calculator, get an IDEA of what fat, protein, carb level is recommended for you. Start there and move forward.

This is a great forum - the posters are knowledgeable and helpful and I look forward to getting to know you.
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Psssst...Nothing tastes as good as ketosis feels!
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:11 AM   #8
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I am sorry you had a rough day yesterday! The first 1-2 weeks can be challenging while your body adapts. More fat and salt are really helpful. The fat helps you stay satiated and we need more salt in our bodies in LC than a high carb diet (to keep the correct salt balance). More salt and fat also prevent constipation. Potassium and magnesium also help. There is some potassium in avocados, and they are delicious but have some carbs so they need to be eaten in moderation, I try to stick to one half a day,but no more than that. There are also supplements that can help while you transition. Broth helps, as others have said. Lierre Kieth is the author who's interview I thought may be something you could relate to. She had been vegan for 20 years and suffered from some serious health issues because of it, and had a hard time giving it up because she felt it was part of her identity. Anyway, when you told me your story it immediately made me think of the interview I heard with her.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:15 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by LynnH View Post
I do know however if you're limiting carbs that the only other source of calories is fat. It's quite a conundrum.
Don't forget protein! I am guessing you know this, though.
Some of us wanting to lose weight need to not overdo this, but you may be able to splurge a bit.

An easy way to get fat is in coffee or fatbombs.

You might cut out bananas too, they are very high carb.

Last edited by Patience; 03-19-2014 at 08:19 AM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:22 AM   #10
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Wow! thanks ...lots of good advice ...it is hard giving up the things we love especially our long held erroneous beliefs. I'm going to keep trying with this, but I think I have to make the switch gradually to give my body time to get used to the lower carbs and make the adjustment. Question: Is peanut butter good or bad ...I eat natural ...I loves me peanut butter? I know there are better choices ...just wondering
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:28 AM   #11
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I think there are better options than peanut butter, as peanuts are a legume and not a nut and IMO not healthy for you. (others may say differently though)

I really like almond butter or hazelnut butter...

I love eating creme fraiche with a TB of almond or hazelnut butter, a tiny bit of seasalt and some stevia... If I feel particularly indulgent I even add coconut oil... Best dessert ever! And if you use hazelnut butter and add a bit of cocoa powder and fresh vanilla extract it tastes like praline.... OMG!
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:24 AM   #12
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wow, that sounds super delicious mimosa!
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by LynnH View Post
Thank you ...very encouraging ...It is just scary to me when I'm eating all the things I have previously considered taboo. I mean FAT ...OMG! ...I have to do a complete turn-around. I'm now eating things I haven't eaten in years. Eggs, bacon, mayo, etc. ...and have to give up some of my favs like oatmeal, and raisin bran. The real test will be when I get a blood test. The last one I had on the vegan diet was disasterous ...My cholesterol and triglycerides were through the roof ...that left me very confused as I was eating no fats or cholesterol.
I am very curious if any one has any blood test results that show how this diet has affected their numbers.
I recommend the book "Genocide" by James E Carlson. He is a doctor that actually treats diabetics.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:38 PM   #14
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One of my favorite parts from the book "Why We Got Fat" by Gary Taubes. Really interesting info here and even more so if you are worried about cardiovascular health.

Quote:
Now let’s look at what has happened in clinical trials in which subjects were instructed to do just what I’ve been proposing—replace the fattening carbohydrates they’d been eating with animal products high in fat and even high in saturated fat.

In the last ten years, researchers have carried out quite a few trials to compare diets that are very low in carbohydrates but high in fat and protein—typically, the Atkins diet, made famous by Dr. Robert Atkins in his 1972 best-seller, Dr. Atkins’ Diet Revolution—with the kind of low-fat, low-calorie diet recommended by the American Heart Association or the British Heart Foundation.

These trials are the best studies ever done on the effect of eating high-fat, high-saturated-fat diets on weight and on risk factors for both heart disease and diabetes. The results have been remarkably consistent. In these trials, subjects would be instructed to eat as much fat and protein as they wanted—as much meat, fish, and fowl—but to avoid carbohydrates (eat fewer than fifty or sixty grams a day—200 to 240 calories’ worth), and they would be compared with subjects who had been instructed not only to eat fewer total calories but particularly to avoid fat and saturated fat. This is what happened to those who ate mostly fat and protein:

1) They lost at least as much weight, if not considerably more.

2) Their HDL cholesterol went up.

3) Their triglycerides went way down.

4) Their blood pressure went down.

5) Their total cholesterol remained about the same.

6) Their LDL cholesterol went up slightly.

7) Their risk of having a heart attack decreased significantly.

Let’s look at one of these studies in detail. This one cost two million dollars, was government-funded, and was done by researchers at Stanford University. The results were published in The Journal of the American Medical Association in 2007. It was known as the A TO Z Weight Loss Study and compared four diets:

1. The Atkins diet (A): twenty grams a day of carbohydrates for the first two to three months, and then fifty grams, with as much protein and fat as desired.

2. A traditional diet (T), also known as the LEARN diet (Lifestyle, Exercise, Attitudes, Relationships, and Nutrition): calories are restricted, carbohydrates make up 55 to 60 percent of all calories, fat is less than 30 percent, and saturated fat less than 10 percent. Regular exercise is encouraged.

3. The Ornish diet (O): fewer than 10 percent of all calories come from fat, and the subjects meditate and exercise.

4. The Zone diet (Z): 30 percent of calories come from protein, 40 percent from carbohydrates, and 30 percent from fat.


Here are the results for weight and for risk factors for heart disease, a year after the subjects embarked on their diets:



Even though the subjects on the Atkins diet were counseled to eat as much food as they wanted, to eat copious amounts of red meat and thus the saturated fat that goes with it, they lost more weight, their triglycerides dropped further (a good thing), their HDL went up further (a good thing), and their blood pressure down further (a good thing) than those on any of the other diets.*

Here’s how the Stanford researchers described the results:

"Many concerns have been expressed that low-carbohydrate weight-loss diets, high in total and saturated fat, will adversely affect blood lipid levels and cardiovascular risk. These concerns have not been substantiated in recent weight-loss diet trials. The recent trials, like the current study, have consistently reported that triglycerides, HDL-C [HDL cholesterol], blood pressure and measures of insulin resistance either were not significantly different or were more favorable for the very-low-carbohydrate groups."

The point man on this trial was Christopher Gardner, director of Nutrition Studies at the Stanford Prevention Research Center. Gardner presented the results of the trial in a lecture that’s now viewable on YouTube—“The Battle of Weight Loss Diets: Is Anyone Winning (at Losing)?” He begins the lecture by acknowledging that he’s been a vegetarian for twenty-five years. He did the study, he explains, because he was concerned that a diet like the Atkins diet, rich in meat and saturated fat, could be dangerous. When he described the triumph of the very low-carbohydrate, meat-rich Atkins diet, he called it “a bitter pill to swallow.”
Perhaps a little out of topic but I recently saw a great documentary from Australia about cholesterol and saturated fat which might interest you (being on STATINS):


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Old 03-21-2014, 09:23 AM   #15
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Good info ...I'm still having a hard time completely reconciling myself whole heartedly. Every time I put fat in my mouth I feel like I'm doing something bad. But I read the facts and it makes sense to me in theory and I read all the testimonies. I know I can't sit on the fence...I have to make a decision and go with it. But I'm still wavering and can't seem to get over my life-long hang ups about fat. I have changed my diet too many times to then find it's all wrong and it has wreaked havoc with my body. I want to do this, but at the end of the day I keep reaching for the carbs because I feel like I'm hypoglycemic and have palpitations and hyperventilating. I feel like I'm depriving my body of something it needs. If I could avoid those things while I'm transitioning it would help. I guess one of my biggest problems is trusting in my own judgment and the ability to make an educated decision. I am going through hell everyday torturing myself over what to do, what to eat and what is really best... not just about food, but everything. I'm on all these meds that I hate and want to get off of , but I'm afraid I'm doing the wrong thing and I'm gonna end up with clogged arteries. My sister died 4 years ago...she had double bypass surgery at 45 ...and corotoid artery surgery ...stents 4 times ...COPD, Diabetes, gallstones ...etc, etc. So I am constantly afraid ...I don't want to die the same way she did. I have to be 100 percent confident that I am doing the right thing. Please bear with me...I'm not trying to be difficult...and thank you all for all your help

Last edited by LynnH; 03-21-2014 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:08 AM   #16
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You don't have to eat tons of fat . . . my daughter was alarmed when I said I was eating low carb, high fat, medium protein. But I explained I didn't eat fat in excess. I don't but I don't deliberately minimize it either. I add CO, MCT, or HWC to my coffee, I cook in butter, olive oil, or CO. I eat my allowance of hard cheeses and olives and avocados.

Seems to me you can up your protein, though, and gradually increase your fat. You don't say much about your protein consumption. The Protein plan mentioned by Leo might be a good one to consider. It is low carb, but higher protein than NK.

Of course, I am trying to lose weight (and have had some success) and fortunately am not diabetic, so I understand our situations are so different. There are some Type IIs on this forum, so maybe one of them will chime in here.

p.s. In this life I don't think we can be 100 percent confident of anything. Such is life. IMHO. But you can make an educated guess.

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Old 03-21-2014, 11:38 AM   #17
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If you don't want to be on the meds I think that's something you should consider no matter what diet you are on. The benefits claimed by the drug companies are next to none and when you look at the raw data, people who take them aren't living any longer.

I personally really believe the dangers of cholesterol are pretty much a myth, just like the dangers of saturated fat. The popular opinion of doctors and scientists aren't always right and have often turned out to be wrong so you should always do your own research instead of blindly going with what your doctor tells you to do.

Did you watch the documentary? It really is a must see for everyone wondering about these things.

Cravings don't say anything about whether you need something or not. I mean we can crave things like sugar and drugs. Usually cravings just means you are addicted to it, mentally or/and physically. You might be addicted to the rush carbs give you and it makes it hard to let go, especially if you have been on a high-carb diet for a long time.

I do not think this is a diet you should ease yourself into it's rather something you should switch over to "cold turkey" and give your body a shock. The beginning might be difficult but then you reach a point where your craving for carbs goes way down. Starting with a "middle way" is probably harder than just going all the way from the start.

And yes what you describe is something most of us have dealt with, that it's hard to get rid of the fear of fat. To a level we are all socially brainwashed (if you hear something often enough it becomes fact) so although someone manages to convince you of something it can take a while to fully sink in if it's against the mainstream thinking. Don't worry as long as you remind yourself often enough you will get there, being a part of a community like this one helps.
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:45 AM   #18
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:16 PM   #19
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I've recently started my LCHF journey and like you I found it difficult at first to accept that I wasn't doing something wrong, bad or just plain unhealthy. To get over the angst I threw myself into reading everything I could and was pretty reassured by the science behind it. I strongly recommend watching the Fat Head movie and lectures by Dr Lustig available on Youtube, Dr Peter Attia's blog and the Diet Doctor site. There are a lot of other great videos you can find too.

One thing I did notice was that you're on a lot of meds. This diet is highly recommended for diabetes and blood pressure but if you're taking meds that you need to monitor yourself carefully. You don't want to accidentally medicate yourself too low. Check your blood sugar and blood pressure several times a day while you first start the diet. You may need to reduce any medication you're taking. Preferably, you should do this in partnership with a doctor. Also be careful with those statins. My father just couldn't take them as they made him feel tired, ill and stripped him of muscle tone.

Naturally, I can't make medical recommendations but this diet is certainly worth a try.
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:15 PM   #20
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Backsliding

For now ...I've stopped doing LCHF ...until I can talk to my Dr and a nutritionist about my concerns ...because I really wasn't feeling well on it. I am reading the articles and doing as much research as I can in the meantime so I am well armed with info when I talk to my Dr. and hopefully can get her cooperation ...I just don't feel qualified to do this on my own ...in the meantime, I am trying to eat as sensibly as I can (whatever that is) ...I really don't know anymore. Thank you all, Lynn
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:37 AM   #21
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Good luck finding an answer. I hope your dr and nutritionist are well educated on this lifestye. Many are not. If you want to go without the meds, it may be worthwhile to find someone who specializes in this.
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