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Old 03-12-2014, 01:11 PM   #1
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carb snack before high intensity workout?

Hi! I hope you guys can help me...

I have been doing this diet for almost 8 weeks. I think my highest carb day was 45 grams but I usually stick to between 20-30grams. I also try and watch my protein and I stick to around 100grams, my fats are somewhere between 100-150grams, calories are around 2000.

I have been doing a very high intesity 1 hour workout twice a week, I would like to go to three times a week. I sometimes feel light headed during my workout and I have trouble keeping up. I don't know if this is due to me being out of shape or not having enough glycogen, or both? I was thinking of adding a 1/4cup-1/2cup blueberries with whip cream snack before my workout. What is your experience with this? I thought I read that there are problems with NK and high intensity workouts but haven't found advice as to what to do. I have breakfast at 8:30am and my workout starts at about 10:00am.

Another problem I have is I feel very tired particularly on my workout days, again I don't know if this is due to doing something wrong or if this is natural from such an intense workout.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:38 PM   #2
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I have been doing this less time, but I think I am adapting well. At first I had a really rough time working out, I work out at high intensity 5-6 times a week for 1-2 hours at a time. I am an athlete of sorts and that is what my team requires of me...

Anyway... from your other post it sounds like you are not keto adapted. For the first few weeks workouts were hell. I had a breakthrough this weekend and things seem to be going more smoothly. I fell like I have been performing and feeling my best in more of a fasted state.

My theory is that carbs would would make it worse. I think what makes the adaption period so unpleasant is that your body is confused about which fuel it should be using, and that was certainly how I felt.

Now that I seem to have made that break-though my body is pretty happy, during workouts. It was kind of cool, because during the roller derby games I played in last weekend, everyone else seemed spent by the end, but I felt like I had boundless energy.

Basically, it seems like you are getting to many carbs/too much protein to adapt but not enough to use for fuel.

That is just my opinion. I have been reading and listening to a lot of information, but I don't know what will really work for you.

Good luck finding an answer!
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:10 PM   #3
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yikes, sorry for all the mistakes! I guess it is too late to edit my typos!
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:23 PM   #4
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I will keep researching this as I know there is an issue with the type of activity I am doing and NK. I am doing HIIT and weight training all in one hour, there is about 20 seconds rest between each burst of exercise. I didn't have any energy problems in the beginning when I was walking on a high incline on the treadmill, just in the past five weeks, once I started this workout. I really love it and want to continue it, so I will have to experiment.

I was hoping that there would be some more experienced NK people out there to give me some advice on this.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:05 AM   #5
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I am Familiar with HIIT. I still do not recommend a carb. snack, but that is from my own research as well as my personal experience (with similar very intense workouts). I am also insulin resistant enough that I can not eat berries at all or they throw me out of keto ( or really negatively affect it and my mood) and I know most people seem to be able to handle them.

I think doing your own experimentation and research is a good way to go I think one of the major problems with fitness and nutrition advice these days is that we seem to think there is a one-size-fits-all answer, and that is just not the case.

That said, Attia and some paleo athletes I have listened to podcasts from also seem to feel they do better in a fasted state. I stumbled across this realization in myself on accident.

Good luck!
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:14 AM   #6
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there is definitely no one size fits all answer.

I have been listening and reading Attia and he has a lot of good information but he isn't a moderately active 187lb female. He is extremely athletic (it is crazy what he puts his body through) he also says he uses super starch and does take carb snacks like nuts on long workouts. He also makes no recommendations as he admits that everyone is so different it is difficult to make dietary recommendations and he says that NK isn't for everyone.

So when I say carb snack I mean a 1/4 cup of blueberries which is like 6 net carbs and would be burned up right away. It is far from the recommendation from dietitions i have had in the past to have some orange juice or an eggo. I am really worried about not eating breakfast or anything before I go, I may try that too but I worry I will pass out. I may wait a few more weeks before I try that.

Anyways thanks!
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:48 AM   #7
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I would probably not try fasting until you feel more adapted either because it sounds like your body is confused. When I figured it out it was when I was going to have a snack between games and realized I was not hungry and by the end of the last game I had gone over 12 hours without eating and felt great. My concern with even a small carb snack is that since your body already seems to be not fully adapted and a little confused and thinking glycogen is still the primary fuel the carb boost right before working out may make your body even more confused. I do not think the carbs will help that, but if you try it and feel better that means it is right for you.

I am also an athlete, so I have heard advice (and read quite a few books about optimizing performance) about eating carbs before, during and protein and carbs after workouts to stay fueled/refuel, but that advice is really for someone primarily burning glycogen. Many nutritionists are not up to date on this kind of lifestyle. Since I now know I am insulin resistant it also did not help me, it actually just made me fatter and sicker. Obviously, if you can eat berries without issue (which I can not) it seems like a good choice.

The Phinney Volek Art and Sciece of Low Carb Performance is next up on my reading list so I hope to learn more since it has a pretty big impact on me personally.

I am curious to hear how things work out with the fruit, I know it is very possible it will give you just the boost you need, and I hope it does! It sucks to be working out and feel drained and crappy. I am also hoping to hear some more about this from others, which is why I keep responding and bumping the post
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:09 AM   #8
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I forgot to add that a magnesium supplement daily and drinking broth within an hour before starting helped me, but you are probably already doing that.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:35 PM   #9
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You sound like me

My answer is to eat more lean protein and green leafy Cobb salad about an 1-2 hours before a workout. I find the slow conversion of proteins to glucose with the slowly digested carbs in green veggies gives a good glycogen refilling. Workouts are enjoyable again.

I also put about 4 carbs of salad dressing on my salad.

Forgot to add I also do a multivit and a calcium/magnesium/zinc supplements that totally assist recovery.

Last edited by hope2bthin; 03-15-2014 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:10 AM   #10
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I would suggest you read Phinney and Volek's book "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance". It addresses these issues very well. Erica has it right.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:46 PM   #11
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thanks so much! I have not tried the berries yet. There is one other thing that may be happening and I knew it all along but forgot about it...SALT. Yea, I just know I am not eating enough of it. I trained myself to add very little salt to my food, because you know it is soooo bad for you! (wink) Well I know that in a context of a high carb diet it can be. SO I am going to make more of an effort to drink my boullion, eat my avocado's and take my magnesium. My Friday workout went better, I don't know if it was due to having a cup of bouillion the night before and the morning before. (I had a cup of boullion with half of an avocado and one egg for breakfast)

The P and V book is on my reading list, I am still waiting for their living book to arrive at my door. I thought that maybe their performance book was geared more to athletes. Is it worth buying? For some reason these books cost too much, factoring shipping and that I am in Canada.
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